James Bond Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Where's the Scientology option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 God has been so good to me. I am up $70 today at the casino so I bought a sports jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, arnold layne said: God has been so good to me. I am up $70 today at the casino so I bought a sports jacket. Sounds like your God goes by the name Mammon, Arnie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, PappyTron said: Sounds like your God goes by the name Mammon, Arnie. Impressive Pappy. For an Atheist, you seem to know quite a bit about religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 For the record, I'm Roman Catholic. Went to Catholic School for 14 years (2 years of kindergarten, elementary, mid, and high school) and have absolutely no regrets. Has made me a much wiser and moral person because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2 hours ago, arnold layne said: God has been so good to me. I am up $70 today at the casino so I bought a sports jacket. If you really are spending that much time and money at the casino, you should try to master the game of poker. At least it is a game of skill...and when mastered, you will control your destiny....in a sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Impressive Pappy. For an Atheist, you seem to know quite a bit about religion. Well, I did go to the same college as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, though arrived at Atheism years before that. I think that with something so important and widespread as religion it is important to understand it, even if you disagree with it; I'm more than able to debate Christianity from an historical, moral, social, psychological, or philosophical position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, PappyTron said: Well, I did go to the same college as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, though arrived at Atheism years before that. I think that with something so important and widespread as religion it is important to understand it, even if you disagree with it; I'm more than able to debate Christianity from an historical, moral, social, psychological, or philosophical position. Why atheist vs. agnostic? What makes you absolutely certain there is no God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknightfan Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I just see this topic going really well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: Why atheist vs. agnostic? What makes you absolutely certain there is no God? I'm not certain that there is no God, just certain that nothing which is commonly attributed to God (Christian or otherwise) is so as opposed to being explainable by other means. I am also, like Hitchens, anti-theistic in that I believe, generally speaking, that religion is a net drain on society, certainly so across history as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: I'm not certain that there is no God, just certain that nothing which is commonly attributed to God (Christian or otherwise) is so as opposed to being explainable by other means. I am also, like Hitchens, anti-theistic in that I believe, generally speaking, that religion is a net drain on society, certainly so across history as a whole. Fair enough. I wouldn't classify you as atheist then, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: Fair enough. I wouldn't classify you as atheist then, imo. What would you classify me as, then? I don't believe that Gods or the supernatural exist and see no evidence to prove otherwise; that is very much atheism, which is defined as the lack of belief in a God or Gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: What would you classify me as, then? I don't believe that Gods or the supernatural exist and see no evidence to prove otherwise; that is very much atheism, which is defined as the lack of belief in a God or Gods. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. You said you weren't certain that God didn't exist. ag·nos·tic aɡˈnästik/ noun noun: agnostic; plural noun: agnostics 1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. And said that you didn't believe because no (material) evidence existed. Much closer to the definition of being agnostic vs atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. You said you weren't certain that God didn't exist. ag·nos·tic aɡˈnästik/ noun noun: agnostic; plural noun: agnostics 1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. And said that you didn't believe because no (material) evidence existed. Much closer to the definition of being agnostic vs atheist. I disagree. I don't believe that there are beings such as Gods, but am open to the possibility that I may be wrong; that is very much not the same as saying "I don't know whether Gods exist". I derived at my belief that Gods are not real, along with ghosts etc, because I believe that there is no evidence for their existence and that things attributed to Gods can be better explained away through other methods. I am supported in my belief that God is not real by virtue of the Bible (as one example) being proved wrong time and time again, and as of yet there being no actual evidence that anything in the Bible pertaining to the existence of God has been proved correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 minute ago, PappyTron said: I disagree. I don't believe that there are beings such as Gods, but am open to the possibility that I may be wrong; that is very much not the same as saying "I don't know whether Gods exist". I derived at my belief that Gods are not real, along with ghosts etc, because I believe that there is no evidence for their existence and that things attributed to Gods can be better explained away through other methods. I am supported in my belief that God is not real by virtue of the Bible (as one example) being proved wrong time and time again, and as of yet there being no actual evidence that anything in the Bible pertaining to the existence of God has been proved correct. To each their own. You classify yourself as being atheist and I would consider you agnostic. Again, you said you are open to being "wrong" and most atheists are not. Open to being wrong is the equivalent of not really knowing. Not knowing = being agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: To each their own. You classify yourself as being atheist and I would consider you agnostic. Again, you said you are open to being "wrong" and most atheists are not. Open to being wrong is the equivalent of not really knowing. Not knowing = being agnostic. Not in the slightest. Any scientist would say that there is the possibility that they are wrong about the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Magnetism; that is not the same as them saying "I don't really know". Atheist - I don't believe that Gods exists, though I may be wrong because it is arrogance to say that it is impossible to be wrong Agnostic - I don't know whether Gods exist one way or the other. Not sure what part you are missing, Kas. You're a Catholic, right? Do you believe that the Bible is 100% the true word of God? I mean, you believe in the flood, Garden of Eden etc, correct? Edited February 3, 2016 by PappyTron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: Not in the slightest. Any scientist would say that there is the possibility that they are wrong about the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Magnetism; that is not the same as them saying "I don't really know". Atheist - I don't believe that Gods exists, though I may be wrong because it is arrogance to say that it is impossible to be wrong Agnostic - I don't know whether Gods exist one way or the other. Not sure what part you are missing, Kas. You're a Catholic, right? Do you believe that the Bible is 100% the true word of God? I mean, you believe in the flood, Garden of Eden etc, correct? Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. The definition of atheism does not include the possibility of being wrong. Maybe you are somewhere in between, idk. Atheist you are not. The Bible is the word of God as interpreted by man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-W.A.R- Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Atheist/Agnostic but im not one of those jackass that forces my view onto people. hell Religion, Racism, Politics and Homosexuality are topics i seldom speak on....way too touchy of topics i rather talk about GNR or Basketball Edited February 3, 2016 by -W.A.R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. The definition of atheism does not include the possibility of being wrong. Maybe you are somewhere in between, idk. Atheist you are not. The Bible is the word of God as interpreted by man. You keep on repeating the same line, Kas, even when I have told you that you are wrong; talk about arrogance. Atheism is the lack of belief in Gods. That is all that it is. I don't believe in Gods and that makes me an atheist. That I accept that, as a human I may be wrong, doe not change the fact that I am an atheist. That's kind of easy to understand to anyone, or at least should be. If I had said "I don't know whether Gods exist one way or another" then that would make me agnostic. I did not say that though. "The Bible is the word of God as interpreted by man." - So, if it is just an interpretation you accept that it may be wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PappyTron said: You keep on repeating the same line, Kas, even when I have told you that you are wrong; talk about arrogance. Atheism is the lack of belief in Gods. That is all that it is. I don't believe in Gods and that makes me an atheist. That I accept that, as a human I may be wrong, doe not change the fact that I am an atheist. That's kind of easy to understand to anyone, or at least should be. If I had said "I don't know whether Gods exist one way or another" then that would make me agnostic. I did not say that though. "The Bible is the word of God as interpreted by man." - So, if it is just an interpretation you accept that it may be wrong? All I did was quote definitions of atheism and agnosticism. I copied and pasted them. You are coming up with your own definitions. If I'm wrong, then write Google an email. The Word of God is infallible. Whether we as humans interpret it correctly....well.... Edited February 4, 2016 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Not scrolling through every post, but I don't think Atheist/Agnostic should be grouped together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: All I did was quote definitions of atheism and agnosticism. I copied and pasted them. You are coming up with your own definitions. If I'm wrong, then write Google an email. The Word of God is infallible. Whether we as humans interpret it correctly....well.... Where, exactly, have I stated anything that goes against what the word Atheism means? Atheism - Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Agnosticism - Someone who does not know whether Gods exist I am clearly and obviously the former; I have told you so. The fact that I am human and therefore not perfect and accept that it is entirely possible that I may be wrong is NOT the same as saying "I do not know whether Gods exist" which is what you are trying to claim I am saying. The percentage chance of me being wrong in my beliefs is about the same percentage chance of scientists being wrong about Gravity existing. Here; the only perfect being in the Universe is God. As Kasanova King is not God he is not perfect. As he is not perfect he has to accept that he can be wrong. Given that he may be wrong he may be wrong about his understanding of the word of God. Given that he may be wrong about the word of God he might not actually be following any of God's teachings or the Bible correctly. Given that Kasanova King may not be following God's teachings correctly he may be heading to Hell. 8 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: Not scrolling through every post, but I don't think Atheist/Agnostic should be grouped together. They shouldn't be on there at all, given that they are clearly not religions. Edited February 4, 2016 by PappyTron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: Where, exactly, have I stated anything that goes against what the word Atheism means? Atheism - Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Agnosticism - Someone who does not know whether Gods exist I am clearly and obviously the former; I have told you so. The fact that I am human and therefore not perfect and accept that it is entirely possible that I may be wrong is NOT the same as saying "I do not know whether Gods exist" which is what you are trying to claim I am saying. The percentage chance of me being wrong in my beliefs is about the same percentage chance of scientists being wrong about Gravity existing. Here; the only perfect being in the Universe is God. As Kasanova King is not God he is not perfect. As he is not perfect he has to accept that he can be wrong. Given that he may be wrong he may be wrong about his understanding of the word of God. Given that he may be wrong about the word of God he might not actually be following any of God's teachings or the Bible correctly. Given that Kasanova King may not be following God's teachings correctly he may be heading to Hell. This is simple, Pappy. Can you say for 100% certainty that God does not exist? If you say no, then you don't know. Which would classify you as the latter, not the former. "Here; the only perfect being in the Universe is God. As Kasanova King is not God he is not perfect. As he is not perfect he has to accept that he can be wrong. Given that he may be wrong he may be wrong about his understanding of the word of God. Given that he may be wrong about the word of God he might not actually be following any of God's teachings or the Bible correctly. Given that Kasanova King may not be following God's teachings correctly he may be heading to Hell." Could be. I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Depending on theory, gravity may or may not exist beyond our current dimension....btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 18 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: This is simple, Pappy. Can you say for 100% certainty that God does not exist? If you say no, then you don't know. Which would classify you as the latter, not the former. "Here; the only perfect being in the Universe is God. As Kasanova King is not God he is not perfect. As he is not perfect he has to accept that he can be wrong. Given that he may be wrong he may be wrong about his understanding of the word of God. Given that he may be wrong about the word of God he might not actually be following any of God's teachings or the Bible correctly. Given that Kasanova King may not be following God's teachings correctly he may be heading to Hell." Could be. I hope not. I am 100% certain that there is no evidence to support the notion that a God, Gods or the supernatural exist and am therefore 100% certain that Gods do not exist. However, I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong in my 100% certainty, because I am open to the possibility that because I am fallible, that I may be wrong about anything, no matter how certain I am of it. If I were an agnostic I would simply state "I do not know whether God, Gods or the supernatural exist". Not complicated to understand the difference. If you would like to present some Biblical evidence to support your belief that God not only exists but is the Christian God, then feel free to present it. If you accept that you may not be following God's word correctly then how can you, in good faith, state that you are a Catholic? You must accept that the Catholic church may be a tool of the Devil and that the last 2000 years has been a trick by Old Nick; after all, you say yourself that you could be doing religion wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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