Which do you like better Contraband or Chinese Democracy?

[ColdHeartBreaker]

Let me know when Velvet Revolver make something that holds a candle to a song like There Was A Time or Prostitute. Contraband had too much guitar, it has always sounded a bit muddy to me.

Come on, Come in is my fav VR song. It's head and shoulders above the rest.

That's your opinion, not fact. Most either think those songs are crap, or just couldn't care less about them. (IMO TWAT's a great song, Prostitute's a dud)

Fact is, Slither and Fall to Pieces were more relevant than either of those songs could ever hope to be.

And Contraband as a whole was much more relevant than Chinese Democracy was. Indisputable fact, not a viewpoint.

Please provide a source for your facts then - oh wait, it's music, it's subjective either way, neverfuckingmind.

Do you understand the word relevant? I've gathered you seem to have a high appreciation for it, but do you really understand it's meaning? I want you to think about this one..

Contraband was predictable rock. - A snooze fest bar a few moments.

There Was A Time stomps on any other Post-Guns project, period.

Let me know when Velvet Revolver make something that holds a candle to a song like There Was A Time or Prostitute. Contraband had too much guitar, it has always sounded a bit muddy to me.

Come on, Come in is my fav VR song. It's head and shoulders above the rest.

That's your opinion, not fact. Most either think those songs are crap, or just couldn't care less about them. (IMO TWAT's a great song, Prostitute's a dud)

Fact is, Slither and Fall to Pieces were more relevant than either of those songs could ever hope to be.

And Contraband as a whole was much more relevant than Chinese Democracy was. Indisputable fact, not a viewpoint.

Yes it was but it doesn`t make Contraband automatically better than Chinese Democracy Massages is VR best song by far

Preference is preference, and fact is fact.

And the fact is, Contraband is the most noteworthy album released by anybody associated with "GNR" since the UYIs.

And it's fact it did a better job connecting to an audience than Axl could have ever hoped with Chinese Democracy. That speaks volumes.

The rest is entirely subjective.

Carry on.

NOTE WORTHY?

Is this a new word for Bobbo?

I'm impressed. Noteworthy!

[Ragnar]

Let me know when Velvet Revolver make something that holds a candle to a song like There Was A Time or Prostitute. Contraband had too much guitar, it has always sounded a bit muddy to me.

Come on, Come in is my fav VR song. It's head and shoulders above the rest.

That's your opinion, not fact. Most either think those songs are crap, or just couldn't care less about them. (IMO TWAT's a great song, Prostitute's a dud)

Fact is, Slither and Fall to Pieces were more relevant than either of those songs could ever hope to be.

And Contraband as a whole was much more relevant than Chinese Democracy was. Indisputable fact, not a viewpoint.

Yes it was but it doesn`t make Contraband automatically better than Chinese Democracy Massages is VR best song by far

Preference is preference, and fact is fact.

And the fact is, Contraband is the most noteworthy album released by anybody associated with "GNR" since the UYIs.

And it's fact it did a better job connecting to an audience than Axl could have ever hoped with Chinese Democracy. That speaks volumes.

The rest is entirely subjective.

Carry on.

OK we got it, it was more relevant and sold more your point is ?

Edited January 25, 2013 by Son of a Guns

[Bobbo]

Let me know when Velvet Revolver make something that holds a candle to a song like There Was A Time or Prostitute. Contraband had too much guitar, it has always sounded a bit muddy to me.

Come on, Come in is my fav VR song. It's head and shoulders above the rest.

That's your opinion, not fact. Most either think those songs are crap, or just couldn't care less about them. (IMO TWAT's a great song, Prostitute's a dud)

Fact is, Slither and Fall to Pieces were more relevant than either of those songs could ever hope to be.

And Contraband as a whole was much more relevant than Chinese Democracy was. Indisputable fact, not a viewpoint.

Please provide a source for your facts then - oh wait, it's music, it's subjective either way, neverfuckingmind.

Do you understand the word relevant? I've gathered you seem to have a high appreciation for it, but do you really understand it's meaning? I want you to think about this one..

Contraband was predictable rock. - A snooze fest bar a few moments.

There Was A Time stomps on any other Post-Guns project, period.

That's your opinion, not fact.

Fact is, Contraband was a much more noteworthy album, and contained much more material that connected to an audience than Axl's album did. Chart positions support this, sales support this, the fact that rock radio stations still play Slither and FTP nearly nine years later on a regular basis while tossing Axl's Chinese songs out the windows after mere months, support this.

Fact is, Contraband was the more successful and relevant album. Chinese Democracy got shipped to Dollar Trees because nobody cared about it. And it's fact the vast majority of people wouldn't give a fuck if Axl never played or even mentioned those songs again.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Bobbo

[Ragnar]

Let me know when Velvet Revolver make something that holds a candle to a song like There Was A Time or Prostitute. Contraband had too much guitar, it has always sounded a bit muddy to me.

Come on, Come in is my fav VR song. It's head and shoulders above the rest.

That's your opinion, not fact. Most either think those songs are crap, or just couldn't care less about them. (IMO TWAT's a great song, Prostitute's a dud)

Fact is, Slither and Fall to Pieces were more relevant than either of those songs could ever hope to be.

And Contraband as a whole was much more relevant than Chinese Democracy was. Indisputable fact, not a viewpoint.

^^ Being relevant is overrated. Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber are more relevant than GNR, but their music is still shit. Anybody with half a brain cell and a functioning set of ears can hear that the songwriting on tracks like Shacklers, Catcher and Better is in a whole other league to anything on Contraband and the standard of musicianship is also much greater.

Not really. It's just layers and layers of expensive production to make it sound more complex than it actually is. It's Linkin Park-esque music with some shredding and somewhat complex guitar parts added in here and there, not Mozart. Not to say it was a horrid album like some people like to dramatize it as. But it certainly had more duds than gems, and it wasn't anywhere close to a masterpiece the other end of the spectrum try to paint it as.

Complexity doesn't necessarily mean it's superior. It's all about how everything connects and compliments each other. IMO, Contraband had a better and more organized sound. Not a "band" frankensteined together with each part copied and pasted into one big cluster fuck.

Linkin Park -esue music ? come back when stinkin park or Slash with his new crappy band write songs like Better, TWAT, CITR or even Prostitude

Edited January 25, 2013 by Son of a Guns

[Towelie]

Messages is the only VR song I would rank up there with CD material.

[ColdHeartBreaker]

Hey Bobbo,

Sounds like you might be into Will.i.am, Justin Beiber maybe a bit of One Direction? - these being totally successful, chart topping artists an all - it must totally prove their talent and relevancy!

[Bobbo]

Hey Bobbo,

Sounds like you might be into Will.i.am, Justin Beiber maybe a bit of One Direction? - these being totally successful, chart topping artists an all - it must totally prove their talent and relevancy!

Such a cop out.

As if Axl didn't try making a comeback in the mainstream with his material. You know Axl, a past totally successful, chart topping artist. You don't spend over a decade and 14 million dollars in the studio because you don't give a fuck how people will react. He was just unable to without Slash (and co), while Slash was able to without Axl. Fact.

Whether you think if one is better than the other for whatever reason is purely subjective, not fact. To me, and most, Chinese was an expensive, bloated clusterfuck, that didn't connect with anybody. Not to say I think it didn't have ANY gems, but certainly way more duds.

[Towelie]

Hey Bobbo,

Sounds like you might be into Will.i.am, Justin Beiber maybe a bit of One Direction? - these being totally successful, chart topping artists an all - it must totally prove their talent and relevancy!

Such a cop out

As if Axl didn't try making a comeback in the mainstream with his material. You know Axl, a past totally successful, chart topping artist. You don't spend over a decade and 14 million dollars in the studio because you don't give a fuck how people will react. He was just unable to without Slash (and co), while Slash was able to without Axl. Fact.

Whether you think if one is better than the other for whatever reason is purely subjective, not fact. To me, and most, Chinese was an expensive, bloated clusterfuck, that didn't connect with anybody. Not to say I think it didn't have ANY gems, but certainly way more duds.

Didn't connect with anybody?? Are you serious? Contraband may have sold more physical copies, but 9 years on VR are dead in the water and nobody really remembers Contraband outside of the GNR fanbase.

By contrast, CD is analysed, scrutinised and discussed on a daily basis by thousands of fans online. Fans are clambering for snippets of outtakes and more than 4 years on the album is still a hot topic of conversation amongst fans and detractors alike.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Towelie

[Bobbo]

Oh I’m dead serious guy. Contraband was the most relevant post ’96 GNR release for a reason. The two mega singles topped the rock charts for a significant amount of time, not just for a week because of years of insane hype like some other record (which didn’t even crack number 1 at it’s peak). Not only that, but both those singles are still played constantly on rock radio…nine years later while CD stuff stopped being played nine weeks later. That’s due to more than just “right place at the right time” kinda schemes, it’s because people, fans, critics, and the overall general population connected to one (MUCH) more than the other. Now I'm not saying VR was as big as real deal GNR, but it went further at becoming a well respected, established, and most importantly, significant act, material wise, than anything Axl's attempted since Slash and co split. Fact, not opinion.

Me and you, and the people that post in this forum are in the minority in the grand scheme of things, and even when you consider that, opinions and receptions are divided right down the middle at absolute best. Especially when compared to the majority of the audiences that are putting money in Axl’s and his hanger on’s pockets who couldn’t connect give a fuck less if they tried if Axl ever played Chinese stuff ever again. Chinese’s sales were mostly due to it’s initial release and years of mystique and hype. After a couple of months, it fell off the face of the Earth and nobody (as in the vast majority of people) gave a remote shit. Why? Because most didn’t like what Axl was feeding them, and overall, rejected the material itself, and the material as “Guns N’ Roses”. That’s not a viewpoint. That’s not subjective. That’s not an opinion. That is fact. Now, how YOU feel about the albums is up to you. But just because YOU feel one is superior to the other is not, and can never be considered, fact.

Years from now, CD will be remembered as the bastard child of GNR’s catalogue, at best, and that’s as far as it will ever go.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Bobbo

[Nosaj Thing]

Fact is, Chinese Democracy is shit, awful album. An old man writing songs about ex-bandmates, crying for a girl who doesn't love him and a kid lost in a relationship. What a real loser. That said, Buckethead did a good job, without him and some of the Finck contributions, Chinese Democracy would've been the worst album of all eras.

[Towelie]

After a couple of months, it fell off the face of the Earth and nobody (as in the vast majority of people) gave a remote shit. Why? Because most didn’t like what Axl was feeding them, and overall, rejected the material itself, and the material as “Guns N’ Roses”. That’s not a viewpoint. That’s not subjective. That’s not an opinion. That is fact.

.

What utter bullshit. The album didn't push numbers beyond it's initial first months sales for one reason and one reason only: it wasn't promoted. There were no music videos, no high profile television appearances, no press interviews, no live shows. The general public can't reject something they don't even know exists.

Slash being the media darling/whore he is promoted the hell out of Contraband, you had the VH1 documentary, numerous high profile television appearances and a major push from the label.

Fall To Pieces and Slither may have been big hits on the rock chart, but they did diddly squat on the Billboard Hot 100. Chinese Democracy got to number 34, by comparison Slither and Fall To Pieces only managed number 56 and 67 respectively. Chart numbers don't lie. And I for one haven't heard either played on the radio - not once.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Towelie

[ManetsBR]

Chinese Democracy. Contraband is a great album, but Chinese Democracy is better.

Fact is, Chinese Democracy is shit, awful album. An old man writing songs about ex-bandmates, crying for a girl who doesn't love him and a kid lost in a relationship. What a real loser. That said, Buckethead did a good job, without him and some of the Finck contributions, Chinese Democracy would've been the worst album of all eras.

Well...

You know what, I'm not even going to reply.

[The Real McCoy]

Contraband hasn't aged all that well, outside of a few songs.

[Bobbo]

After a couple of months, it fell off the face of the Earth and nobody (as in the vast majority of people) gave a remote shit. Why? Because most didn’t like what Axl was feeding them, and overall, rejected the material itself, and the material as “Guns N’ Roses”. That’s not a viewpoint. That’s not subjective. That’s not an opinion. That is fact.

.

What utter bullshit. The album didn't push numbers beyond it's initial first months sales for one reason and one reason only: it wasn't promoted. There were no music videos, no high profile television appearances, no press interviews, no live shows. The general public can't reject something they don't even know exists.

Slash being the media darling/whore he is promoted the hell out of Contraband, you had the VH1 documentary, numerous high profile television appearances and a major push from the label.

Fall To Pieces and Slither may have been big hits on the rock chart, but they did diddly squat on the Billboard Hot 100. Chinese Democracy got to number 34, by comparison Slither and Fall To Pieces only managed number 56 and 67 respectively. Chart numbers don't lie. And I for one haven't heard either played on the radio - not once.

Now THAT’S some bullshit. The album had 14 years of exposure and mystique. It’s announcement of official release was covered and talked about on various talkshows, entertainment shows, magazines, one of the most popular soft drinks willing to give a can of free product to a whole country just because the album was being released, tv ads, billboards, Axl doing the chats here that were later covered in musical publications, and was covered AND reviewed by every major musical publication under the sun. Axl’s also been playing many songs off the album for many years, and Chinese Democracy has never reappeared on ANY worldwide chart, not just America. Also CD, the single, was on constant rotation pre-release, Anybody that remotely followed GNR and wasn’t living under a rock knew about this album’s release. The masses simply just did not take to it at the end of it. They were aware, they just didn’t care. There’s a difference. Now maybe the initial impact could’ve been bigger if a few alternatives happened, but nothing major in the grand scheme of things, and the end result probably would’ve ended up being the same, seeing how Chinese never charted again ANYWHERE it had the potential to once Axl started touring it extensively. The masses rejected it. Fact.

Slash being the smart business man that he is, not wanting his hard work to go to waste, decided to heavily promote Contraband. But promotion and being a “super group” don’t mean jack shit if people don’t like your product. It can easily flop. Case in point, Chickenfoot. The fact that both singles reached number 1 on the rock charts for several weeks is more than just a result of promotion. It’s the result of people liking your product. A lot.

Yes Chinese Democracy the single debuted (and peaked) higher. But fell off the next week. Completely. And was never played on radio again just a month or two later. Hmm…if that’s not solely just due to the insane hype of the first official single off a highly anticipated album, I really don’t know what is. Meanwhile Slither and FTP stayed on top of the charts, each, for several weeks, and were more beneficial to Contraband, which ended up being the more successful effort, than CD and Better were for Chinese Democracy. Like you said, chart numbers don’t lie.

I live in Buffalo, 20 minutes from Canada, so I get Canadian stations too. On each of the stations (1 US, 2 Canadian) I hear Slither and FTP on at least once a week on each station. That’s two different countries. Nine years later. I’ve honestly have not heard Better or CD since the crack ass of dawn of 2009, when they were released at the sunset of 2008.

[volcano62]

The poll speaks for itself.

[magisme]

They both suck.

[F*ck Fear]

Chinese Democracy, without any doubts. But, Contraband is a great album.

Agreed.