History Channel: The Bible

[Dazey]

The bible is shit. Fuck anyone who either takes it literally or thinks it should influence the way other people think or act.

This pretty much. When somebody can show me god I'll start respecting people who base their lives on this horse shit.

[Redhead74]

I have never read it. It seemed like the biggest load of cods wallop when I had to sit through readings of it during RI (Religious Instruction) at Primary School. Geez that was the longest fucking hour of the week, every week for 6 years.

Even at the age of 6 or 7 I remember thinking that it all sounded like nonsense.

[magisme]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

[Johnny Drama]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

[izzygirl]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

It is impossible to separate Western History from the Bible. The Bible itself is semi-historical.

Go ahead and read it, it won't make you a believer but it will show you how things were done thousands of years ago. It is really no different from the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odeyssy, the Illiad all the oral tales passed down. It gives the people of that era a personality. Instead of a list of dates and who was King and a sentence on their accomplishments and often it is "Father of this king."

Edited March 28, 2013 by Georgy Zhukov

[Dazey]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

Having something influence your life outside of your control and making a conscious decision to blindly follow any old cobblers are two very different things. Edited March 28, 2013 by Dazey

[izzygirl]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

Having something influence your life outside of your control and making a conscious decision to blindly follow any old cobblers are two very different things.

Yes, I agree. And who said otherwise?

What Georgy said, as usual.

[Redhead74]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

It is impossible to separate Western History from the Bible. The Bible itself is semi-historical.

Go ahead and read it, it won't make you a believer but it will show you how things were done thousands of years ago. It is really no different from the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odeyssy, the Illiad all the oral tales passed down. It gives the people of that era a personality. Instead of a list of dates and who was King and a sentence on their accomplishments and often it is "Father of this king."

You might be reading the wrong books if all they provide is a list of dates and a sentence on accomplishments. A good historian will add the dimension of personality to the characters they choose to cover.

[DirtyDeeds]

I watched it with my religious extended family.

It was pretty entertaining. I dig the stories. My only complaint is how stupid Abraham was. Seriously going to go off and kill his son like that just because.

Maybe I will watch the next one.

Abraham was being tested by God. If he was to become the Father of many nations God needed to test him, but never intended to let him

kill his son. As Abraham said before they climbed up the mountain "God will provide a sacrifice" and thus the lamb caught up in the bushes.

There is also another point to the story which doesn't make immediate sense in today's context. Other local religions' gods at times required human sacrifice. Part of the point of the story is to highlight how the God of Abraham does not require that. In our modern context, the story most easily comes across as, "Gee, God is a real ass hat to have done that to Abraham, and what a moron Abraham was to go along with it." But quite to the contrary of that sentiment is that it was intended to show God as having abundant mercy and a God that works for His people rather than the people for their god.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Whether you're religious or not, if you believe the bible has no influence on how you think and act, you're fucking clueless about history.

It is impossible to separate Western History from the Bible. The Bible itself is semi-historical.

Go ahead and read it, it won't make you a believer but it will show you how things were done thousands of years ago. It is really no different from the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odeyssy, the Illiad all the oral tales passed down. It gives the people of that era a personality. Instead of a list of dates and who was King and a sentence on their accomplishments and often it is "Father of this king."

You might be reading the wrong books if all they provide is a list of dates and a sentence on accomplishments. A good historian will add the dimension of personality to the characters they choose to cover.

A good historian gathers the personality from the epic tales of the day, including The Bible. Historians don't just invent characters, their job is to tell the truth as accurate as they can. But the earliest sources, we are talking around 3000 B.C. is just a list of dates and rulers before someone started writing accomplishments.

But the Bible like many sources, illustrates how people felt at the time.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Obviously i don't take it for what it's saying but there is no denying it's influence on modern literature, thematically and like...in all senses really, for those who wouldn't consider it a valuable text, it has informed the history of like...writing, storytelling no end. The fact that to this day shades of it permeates modern writing and cinema and art, that to me is the value of the bible. Sorry if that pisses any Christians off, i don't mean it's otherwise worthless i just mean thats its appeal to me. Anyone interested in literature or being a writer could do a lot worse than learning the bible and learning it very very well. You could pretty much fairly call it the most enduring piece of literature in human history and not be far off the truth.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I watched it with my religious extended family.

It was pretty entertaining. I dig the stories. My only complaint is how stupid Abraham was. Seriously going to go off and kill his son like that just because.

Maybe I will watch the next one.

Abraham was being tested by God. If he was to become the Father of many nations God needed to test him, but never intended to let him

kill his son. As Abraham said before they climbed up the mountain "God will provide a sacrifice" and thus the lamb caught up in the bushes.

There is also another point to the story which doesn't make immediate sense in today's context. Other local religions' gods at times required human sacrifice. Part of the point of the story is to highlight how the God of Abraham does not require that. In our modern context, the story most easily comes across as, "Gee, God is a real ass hat to have done that to Abraham, and what a moron Abraham was to go along with it." But quite to the contrary of that sentiment is that it was intended to show God as having abundant mercy and a God that works for His people rather than the people for their god.

I have always felt that was one of the biggest mistakes people have made reading The Bible or even the Koran. They were written during unpleasant times in an unpleasant part of the world.

[Guest Len B'stard]

The Abraham and his son thing is a metaphor for Jesus, like an omen or a precursor. Or so some Christians believe.

[AxlisOld]

"The bible is fact! It must be as law!"

"Yea there some parts that we didn't like, so we changed them in our version."

"...This version of the bible is now fact, kill those that believe the old version!"

[Johnny Drama]

^ Amongst Jews and Christians, everyone reads the same thing. No one's text is changed.

[AxlisOld]

Are there, or are there not, different versions of the bible.

[Johnny Drama]

Well some people have extra books ie Christians vs Jews and then Catholics vs Protestants, but with the exception of the former it's nothing that really matters.

[Georgy Zhukov]

There's different translations. That's about it.

[luciusfunk]

There's different translations. That's about it.

And some are better than others.

If I remember correctly, The Message modernizes the text and actually cuts quite a bit out.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I love that, scripture in the modern vernacular:

"Lo, Jesus and his boys were chillin' in his M3 parked up just outside Damascus blazin' a zoot when this next crippled geezer came along and Jesus was like *sucks teeth* "bumboclaat, throw away your crutches" and next thing you know next man was walkin' and that and Jesus's boys were like 'naaaah, siiiiick'"

[Johnny Drama]

I love that, scripture in the modern vernacular:

"Lo, Jesus and his boys were chillin' in his M3 parked up just outside Damascus blazin' a zoot when this next crippled geezer came along and Jesus was like *sucks teeth* "bumboclaat, throw away your crutches" and next thing you know next man was walkin' and that and Jesus's boys were like 'naaaah, siiiiick'"

[Redhead74]

I love that, scripture in the modern vernacular:

"Lo, Jesus and his boys were chillin' in his M3 parked up just outside Damascus blazin' a zoot when this next crippled geezer came along and Jesus was like *sucks teeth* "bumboclaat, throw away your crutches" and next thing you know next man was walkin' and that and Jesus's boys were like 'naaaah, siiiiick'"

See that's my big problem with the Bible. It's a terribly outdated piece of literature that only seems to have endured in the current state due to some pretty sensational marketing by those church leaders. It also bores the shit out of most Gen Xers. Len, I think you've found your calling in life: to interpret the Bible in today's youth vernacular. I love it!! I'd read that!!!!

Historians don't just invent characters, their job is to tell the truth as accurate as they can.

Um............to the best of my knowledge they don't INVENT any characters at all. The characters are all real people. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I love that, scripture in the modern vernacular:

"Lo, Jesus and his boys were chillin' in his M3 parked up just outside Damascus blazin' a zoot when this next crippled geezer came along and Jesus was like *sucks teeth* "bumboclaat, throw away your crutches" and next thing you know next man was walkin' and that and Jesus's boys were like 'naaaah, siiiiick'"

See that's my big problem with the Bible. It's a terribly outdated piece of literature that only seems to have endured in the current state due to some pretty sensational marketing by those church leaders. It also bores the shit out of most Gen Xers. Len, I think you've found your calling in life: to interpret the Bible in today's youth vernacular. I love it!! I'd read that!!!!

>>

Historians don't just invent characters, their job is to tell the truth as accurate as they can.

Um............to the best of my knowledge they don't INVENT any characters at all. The characters are all real people. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Y'know, thats interesting you should say that Red cuz...as a counterpoint to my original assertion in my initial post about it being like...a seminal piece of literature, or rather THE seminal piece of literature of human history, the other side of that coin is that the themes of it that endure are apparent in lots of other literature and the reason the effect or influence of the bible is as it is is because it became this defining religious text and as such was pored over and picked apart and thats why the themes of it, moral and/or otherwise have lasted so long and permeate so much of society but they were very broad themes and were it not for the bible it would've just been some other book. I mean, it'd have to be an impressive one, y'know, some of the great greek stuff so i suppose thats something worth pondering but thats all hypothesis and the fact is that it WAS The Bible that had this effect and it has informed and effected the genealogy and the growth of literature in an immeasurable way, it really is phenomenal in a way that it is impossible to quantify. So much has occured creatively with this book as a catalyst, directly or indirectly, i mean...i grew up fascinated with certain themes and modes of literature to which the root was the bible and i had absolutely no idea of this and it's come from so many different angles that it's just impossible to really...sum up.

As far as the outdated and boring I've gotta disagree with you there and disagree strongly, i'm very militant about this sort of stuff actually, in a way i find it like...just fascinating and brilliant and powerful and...y'know, there are like...single lines in it from which entire cultural niches have been carved, thats a helluva lot of power in one piece of work, i really think it's brilliant.

I don't agree with this idea that if something is remote from you or you should seek to change it to make it accessible to you, i think you should go meet that thing where it lives, you should make whatever changes are necessary in you to put yourself in a position where you can understand it (if you care to that is), y'know, all or nothing, if you really love The Bible or have an interest i'm of the belief that, fuck, go learn it's original language and THEN read it because...where this comes from in me is like, i come from a culture where poetry is like...common as muck, it's just everywhere and...i understand it in the language that it is presented (to some degree) but everytime i try to explain it in English it doesn't come out right, it doesn't even project an 8th of the impact that it does in the original language because each language is informed by its own culture and that culture is informed by a different set of values and those values in turn inform and assign different levels of significance to certain concepts, whether they be love or death or devotion or honour or joy or...y'know, whatever and until you understand the culture you don't COMPLETELY understand the language and until you understand the language you don't COMPLETELY understand the thing in question. It's not even just about the impact of those things but...they have an entirely other meaning in that language thats in turn informed by a history of its own, y'know? Now i don't know the original language of The Bible but i will bet you any money in the world that if i was to and then if i was to understand the culture it came from, reading the bible would be a totally different expierience than reading it in English.

In fact i'd even go so far as to say that the western cultural grooves and niches of Christianity that are informed by English translations of the bible are almost certainly missing the point of certain aspects and if not missing the point then assigning acute significances in possibly the wrong aspects. The bible is verse...as poetry basically and i don't pretend to understand it or even approach having an proper grasp of it but i think people that read it would benefit greatly from approaching it with that in mind.

So no, i'd have to disagree with you there, i think it should be met where it lives and, this sounds awfully arrogant and...extremist i guess but if you don't have the desire in you to meet this thing where it truly lives, to know it's language, it's tongue and to understand it for EXACTLY where its coming from and what it is then you don't really have the right to my mind to really go around chucking your opinion about it around like you know what you're talking about when it comes to this thing because the fact is you don't properly understand it, you can't do.

This is why i'm always suspicious of the people that are suddenly born again and take it upon themselves to start pontificating and jumping up and down and chucking their opinion about willy nilly, if you really love this thing and really believe that it is something that one should base their entire life around and it is THE answer for the universe then you should afford it the respect of that grandiosity and approach it tentatively and reverently and learn about it and investigate it and dissect it and afford it the proper respect. And i'm talking years here, the rest of your life even maybe. What a lot of people put down to religious fervour i think is bordering on disrespectful of the thing in question, they demean the thing and react and respond to it like a fad or something, y'know, like they just discovered the yoyo for the first time, like HEYYY, look at this thing.

Whatever the answers are to the questions of this thing we're all doing called life, when they occur to us, i think, they'll occur in richest of serenity and calm and inner comfort, not barked by people jumping up and down all in a tizzy.

Nothing truly profound is ever understood instantly.

Edited March 29, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Johnny Drama]

I love that, scripture in the modern vernacular:

"Lo, Jesus and his boys were chillin' in his M3 parked up just outside Damascus blazin' a zoot when this next crippled geezer came along and Jesus was like *sucks teeth* "bumboclaat, throw away your crutches" and next thing you know next man was walkin' and that and Jesus's boys were like 'naaaah, siiiiick'"

See that's my big problem with the Bible. It's a terribly outdated piece of literature that only seems to have endured in the current state due to some pretty sensational marketing by those church leaders. It also bores the shit out of most Gen Xers. Len, I think you've found your calling in life: to interpret the Bible in today's youth vernacular. I love it!! I'd read that!!!!

Historians don't just invent characters, their job is to tell the truth as accurate as they can.

Um............to the best of my knowledge they don't INVENT any characters at all. The characters are all real people. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

If you're reading the stories in the Bible, forget the prophets, psalms and all that, and you're bored you might have something wrong with you. You'd be hard pressed to find a juicier read.