9/11 Inside Job?

[Val22]

Workers just found a piece of a plane between two NYC buildings. Imagine finding a plane part 12 years later.

I don't think it was an inside job. The US was taken by surprise by crazy terrorists who wanted to destroy as many innocent lives as they could. We were warned by France about a month before that they had heard something about planes going into buildings, but the CIA didn't listen.

Since the latest attack in Boston happened and the CIA and FBI didn't co-operate with the Russian government, I guess some things haven't changed to keep us safe.

I still can't believe that it has happened and every year I watch and hear the names of the victims being read in NYC. I was in those buildings back in the 70's and it's still surreal that they are gone.

Everytime something happens to the US everyone screams that the US government is involved. They said the same thing when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Do you think the government would get away with killing lives for so long without someone finding out?

Terrible things happen because we live in a terrible world. As soon as everyone realizes you can't be safe 24/7, it might be easier to accept when attacks happen. European countries and Israel have lived with terrorists attacks for a very long time. I think they deal better with them because they aren't under the illusion that they won't ever happened again.

The American people need to be aware that anytime or anywhere someone might do something terrible and cost many innocent lives. It's just a fact of our lives in today's world. And it sucks!

[T.wa.T]

Homeland security has also prevented many many many attempts. A few will get through once in a while.

[Dazey]

It also seems like that beam is in its original position, thermite would then not be able to cut it diagonally, as seen on the picture. Thermite would cut the beam vertically since it works by gravitation .

That sounds remarkably like science there buddy.

Oh, you thought you had a smoking gun here, right? You couldn't be more wrong, though.

Watch this, from 14:14:

At 16:21 he talks exactly - I can't be more emphatic on this exactly - about the Thermite cut angles.

I'd recommend you to watch everything, though.

>>Dazey, did you watch the vid I showed you?

I did and it went like this:

"This beam was cut diagonally."

"Thermite was found at ground zero."

You'll note that the two statements are completely separate and at no point does he say "thermite was clearly used to make a diagonal cut in this particular beam and it was done like so".

I still contend that there's no way in hell that was cut with thermite.

Just to add a little background on me here. I'm a Chemical Engineer by trade so I work on construction sites AND chemical plants for a living. There EVERY day and have been for going on seven years now. I've been intimately involved in design construction and demolition of structures AND worked with these chemicals first hand in labs and on live plant. I know the difference between a cutting torch profile and a thermite signature and trust me when I tell you that it was not used in this instance in the example I've referred to.

A little more background here on the practicalities of such an operation. Thermite is a stoichiometric mixture of aluminium and iron oxide that when ignited burns at a very high temperature that is indeed hot enough to melt steel. Could it cut through that beam? Of course it could but that's not the point. The cut would have to start at the edge and travel diagonally downwards which means you need to have some way of directing the thermite flow.

If you're working on the assumption that it was directed in that way then that must mean that the steel beneath it was of a higher melting point than that along the line of the cut otherwise it would simply have melted anything below it. If you strapped a package of thermite (nano or otherwise) to the side of the column then what makes you think it would take a perfect 45 degree diagonal route through the beam and not just melt everything below it and leave a sticky molten puddle on the floor?

That is something I would really like to see one of you clarify because you seem to have found some magic method by which a massively energetic exothermic reaction can defy the laws of physics and gravity.

BUMP! Still, y'know ....................... waiting for an explanation young Manets.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Dazey

[Damn_Smooth]

I know that WT7 was a planned demolition now, but why was the BBC the only single news source in the world that knew it was going to fall before it happened, while neglecting to mention that it was planned?

[Dazey]

Ran out of arguments? No surprised. At all.

Yup! Certainly appears so!

[izzygirl]

I know that WT7 was a planned demolition now, but why was the BBC the only single news source in the world that knew it was going to fall before it happened, while neglecting to mention that it was planned?

Interesting.

[Dazey]

Bumpadee bump!

[Guest Len B'stard]

Workers just found a piece of a plane between two NYC buildings. Imagine finding a plane part 12 years later.

I don't think it was an inside job. The US was taken by surprise by crazy terrorists who wanted to destroy as many innocent lives as they could. We were warned by France about a month before that they had heard something about planes going into buildings, but the CIA didn't listen.

Since the latest attack in Boston happened and the CIA and FBI didn't co-operate with the Russian government, I guess some things haven't changed to keep us safe.

I still can't believe that it has happened and every year I watch and hear the names of the victims being read in NYC. I was in those buildings back in the 70's and it's still surreal that they are gone.

Everytime something happens to the US everyone screams that the US government is involved. They said the same thing when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Do you think the government would get away with killing lives for so long without someone finding out?

Terrible things happen because we live in a terrible world. As soon as everyone realizes you can't be safe 24/7, it might be easier to accept when attacks happen. European countries and Israel have lived with terrorists attacks for a very long time. I think they deal better with them because they aren't under the illusion that they won't ever happened again.

The American people need to be aware that anytime or anywhere someone might do something terrible and cost many innocent lives. It's just a fact of our lives in today's world. And it sucks!

Scary innit? In some parts of the world people

Dont know any other way of life.

[ManetsBR]

Workers just found a piece of a plane between two NYC buildings. Imagine finding a plane part 12 years later.

I don't think it was an inside job. The US was taken by surprise by crazy terrorists who wanted to destroy as many innocent lives as they could. We were warned by France about a month before that they had heard something about planes going into buildings, but the CIA didn't listen.

Since the latest attack in Boston happened and the CIA and FBI didn't co-operate with the Russian government, I guess some things haven't changed to keep us safe.

I still can't believe that it has happened and every year I watch and hear the names of the victims being read in NYC. I was in those buildings back in the 70's and it's still surreal that they are gone.

Everytime something happens to the US everyone screams that the US government is involved. They said the same thing when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Do you think the government would get away with killing lives for so long without someone finding out?

Terrible things happen because we live in a terrible world. As soon as everyone realizes you can't be safe 24/7, it might be easier to accept when attacks happen. European countries and Israel have lived with terrorists attacks for a very long time. I think they deal better with them because they aren't under the illusion that they won't ever happened again.

The American people need to be aware that anytime or anywhere someone might do something terrible and cost many innocent lives. It's just a fact of our lives in today's world. And it sucks!

Even though we disagree about the government involvment, this was a very good post.

[Nobodys_Fault]

And that right there. THANK YOU! I've been hoping someone would try to claim that bullshit. Aluminum does NOT cut steel. You cannot cut strong metal with a weaker one. Even aluminum alloy.

Completely full of shit, dude. Sorry.

You might be on to something here. I've never seen steel or iron damaged when I throw ice cubes at them - so how did a bunch of ice take down the Titanic? Ice can NOT rip a ship of that size in two and sink it. Mass and inertia have no part in any of these disasters as the simple physical make up of the substances involved is the only factor that needs to be considered.

[Rustycage]

Yeah cause an ice cube is like an iceberg except that an iceberg is much much harder than an ice cube. You really got me there.

[Rustycage]

Why are these guys telling everyone to get back because "the building is about to blow up/explode?"

[Coma16]

I don't follow these things too much but isn't it possible that they blew it up in order to control it from falling? This happened a few days after 9/11 right?

Looks like it fell about 8 hours after the attacks

Edited April 27, 2013 by Coma16

[Dazey]

An iceberg is much much harder than an ice cube.

No it isn't. It's H₂O below 0^oC and has the same physical properties as any other mass of H₂O below its freezing point irrespective of its size. You really should learn a little chemistry before making such silly statements fella.

[Rustycage]

An iceberg is much much harder than an ice cube.

No it isn't. It's H₂O below 0^oC and has the same physical properties as any other mass of H₂O below its freezing point irrespective of its size. You really should learn a little chemistry before making such silly statements fella.

LOL. You're too busy trying to argue with people for the hell of it, I see "fella."

I hope you aren't claiming to be a chemist. You're preaching elementary facts about frozen water. An iceberg is harder than an ice cube according to people much much more advanced into the study than you. There is something called compression. The strength of ice can vary depending on crystal structure. Which forms differently depending on the temperature and the pressure within the glacier. It's gave me a chuckle for someone to compare throwing ice cubes at iron to pieces of glaciers. Ice cubes are out of their "climate." Icebergs are rested in theirs. Find something else to do with your time. Moving on.....

----------------------------

September 10th, 2001

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

It's odd that the day before 9/11 it's reported that 2.3 trillion dollars can't be accounted for from the Pentagon. If it is true that the crash area at the Pentagon was the accounting department, that's really fuckin odd.

[Rustycage]

Hey Dazey, just for the fun of it, why dont you make a snowball, COMPRESS it with your hands to make sure it gets harder. Then give it to someone for a snowball fight and make sure that you throw some snowflakes at em. Tell me which is harder. The size of them isn't what makes the difference, it's the compression and temperature at which they're frozen that can make a difference. A lot of icebergs have been compressed for as long as 150,000 years.

[ManetsBR]

An iceberg is much much harder than an ice cube.

No it isn't. It's H₂O below 0^oC and has the same physical properties as any other mass of H₂O below its freezing point irrespective of its size. You really should learn a little chemistry before making such silly statements fella.

LOL. You're too busy trying to argue with people for the hell of it, I see "fella."

I hope you aren't claiming to be a chemist. You're preaching elementary facts about frozen water. An iceberg is harder than an ice cube according to people much much more advanced into the study than you. There is something called compression. The strength of ice can vary depending on crystal structure. Which forms differently depending on the temperature and the pressure within the glacier. It's gave me a chuckle for someone to compare throwing ice cubes at iron to pieces of glaciers. Ice cubes are out of their "climate." Icebergs are rested in theirs. Find something else to do with your time. Moving on.....

----------------------------

September 10th, 2001

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

It's odd that the day before 9/11 it's reported that 2.3 trillion dollars can't be accounted for from the Pentagon. If it is true that the crash area at the Pentagon was the accounting department, that's really fuckin odd.

I saw a documentary on Discovery about how they destroyed that part of the Pentagon to vanish all debt evidences. If it gives it any more credit, it was on Discovery Channel, not by "internet guys" like you people say. Even if the internet guys are engineers and physicians.

[Rustycage]

But do they have evidence of that department being the area hit? I really try to stay away from other people's conclusions because they start forming facts in a way that support their conclusion.

[Dazey]

Hey Dazey, just for the fun of it, why dont you make a snowball, COMPRESS it with your hands to make sure it gets harder. Then give it to someone for a snowball fight and make sure that you throw some snowflakes at em. Tell me which is harder. The size of them isn't what makes the difference, it's the compression and temperature at which they're frozen that can make a difference. A lot of icebergs have been compressed for as long as 150,000 years.

You can't compress an icecube or an iceberg! Water and ice are liquids and solids respectively and you can't compress a liquid or a solid. Once again basic chemistry.

LOL. You're too busy trying to argue with people for the hell of it, I see "fella."

I hope you aren't claiming to be a chemist.

Nope. Chemical Engineer. How about you?

Edited April 27, 2013 by Dazey

[Rustycage]

Hey Dazey, just for the fun of it, why dont you make a snowball, COMPRESS it with your hands to make sure it gets harder. Then give it to someone for a snowball fight and make sure that you throw some snowflakes at em. Tell me which is harder. The size of them isn't what makes the difference, it's the compression and temperature at which they're frozen that can make a difference. A lot of icebergs have been compressed for as long as 150,000 years.

You can't compress an icecube or an iceberg! Water and ice are liquids and solids respectively and you can't compress a liquid or a solid. Once again basic chemistry.

Did you know there is air in ice? Compressed air in ice? That's common sense!

Are we really going to start arguing about whether colder ice with different compression of the gases inside and colder temperatures rested in their natural climate are the same as ice cubes in your freezer with different gas properties, temperatures and compression? Pfft.

Nope. Chemical Engineer. How about you?

LOL nice try.

Again, take your snowball and keep compressing it which can either remove or add more air and strengthen or weaken the snowball. Tell me that snowball isn't harder than it was before.

[izzygirl]

September 10th, 2001

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

It's odd that the day before 9/11 it's reported that 2.3 trillion dollars can't be accounted for from the Pentagon. If it is true that the crash area at the Pentagon was the accounting department, that's really fuckin odd.

I saw a documentary on Discovery about how they destroyed that part of the Pentagon to vanish all debt evidences. If it gives it any more credit, it was on Discovery Channel, not by "internet guys" like you people say. Even if the internet guys are engineers and physicians.

There was no plane in the Pentagon, that's kinda obvious. Why or how they destroyed that part, i don't know, but a plane crash is unlikely.

[ManetsBR]

Exactly! I'm still waiting for anyone to debunk the Pentagon and the Shanksville planes.

[Rustycage]

Let them debunk this:

[Dazey]

Again, take your snowball and keep compressing it which can either remove or add more air and strengthen or weaken the snowball. Tell me that snowball isn't harder than it was before.

A snowball ISN'T a solid mass of ice! It's not a single solid mass in the same way that an icecube an iceberg or indeed a single sheet of aluminum. YOU CAN'T COMPRESS A SOLID OR A LIQUID! Once again you don't know what you're talking about.

Nope. Chemical Engineer. How about you?

LOL nice try.

Not sure what you mean by that? I have a degree in Chemical Engineering and I've been working in that capacity for the last seven years. I'm required to have a sound grasp of chemistry, thermodynamics and fluid mechanics in order to carry out my day to day duties. Once again what qualifications do you have that enable you to argue this point?

Edited April 27, 2013 by Dazey

[izzydoezit]

An iceberg is much much harder than an ice cube.

No it isn't. It's H₂O below 0^oC and has the same physical properties as any other mass of H₂O below its freezing point irrespective of its size. You really should learn a little chemistry before making such silly statements fella.

Actually an Iceberg is frozen seawater. And it would take less than -2 degrees celsius for it to freeze. Also its density would be a bit higher than the density of a simple ice cube made from potable water. That said I would assume that an Iceberg would be indeed harder than an ice cube.