9/11 Inside Job?

[Rustycage]

No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.

Wanna take a guess?

[SoulMonster]

No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.

Wanna take a guess?

The plausible explanations are building material or plane parts, but since you don't care about plausibility you will say it must come from explosives

So I guess what this means is that you believe someone hauled hundreds of tonnes of thermite up into the towers; cleared away walls, insulations, wiring, pipes, etc to get to the steel beams (without anyone noticing); then attached huge canisters filled with thermite to the beams and wired everything to be set off remotely (a work that would take a team many weeks to accomplish); made sure a hijacked plane would crash into these parts of the towers; somehow detonated this without anything being noticed; cleared away all remains of wiring, canisters, and other telltale signs of thermite from the site; only to result in some of the steel beams being superficially corroded

Edited May 1, 2013 by SoulMonster

[Rustycage]

FEMA: "No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified."

[Nobodys_Fault]

No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.

Wanna take a guess?

Tens of thousands of burning computers.

Sulfur dioxide is released when burning drywall, plastics, pretty much everything in a burning building and reacts with heated iron. It's how blacksmithing works.

[SoulMonster]

FEMA: "No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified."

No clear explanation for the source of your...love for absurd implausibilities has been identified, either, but that doesn't mean there isn't one (bad genes and flawed upbringing springs to mind).

[Rustycage]

FEMA, you dumb bastards! I can't believe you weren't smart enough to explain the sulfur by computers, tires, building and plane parts!

Was it the computers that bet on United Airlines and American Airlines stock to plummet?

Edited May 1, 2013 by Rustycage

[SoulMonster]

FEMA, you dumb bastards! I can't believe you weren't smart enough to explain the sulfur by computers, tires, building and plane parts!

I don't think the structural chemists who wrote the FEMA report felt it was their job to speculate where the sulfide could have come from, they probably felt that was outside of their field of expertise. That is actually laudable. But it doesn't at all mean a simple, natural explanation is hard to find.

This is what I earlier referred to as conspiracy theorists twisting quotes in their favour.

[Rustycage]

And when they can't explain it, they just excuse it.

[Nobodys_Fault]

The high levels of calcium, strontium, and sulfur concentrations found in the near-surface sediments of the cores, are consistent with presence of gypsum as a parent material. Gypsum is extensively used as drywall in building construction.

http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/03/pr0309.htm

[Rustycage]

When. are. you. going. to. address. everything. instead. of. what. you. cherry. pick?

[SoulMonster]

And when they can't explain it, they just excuse it.

Huh? No one can say with 100 % certainty where the sulfide came from . Not you, not I. But I can give you a plausible explanation whereas you can only give an absurd explanation.

When. are. you. going. to. address. everything. instead. of. what. you. cherry. pick?

What exactly hasn't been addressed? You presented a FEMA report which concluded that some of the beams had been subject to strong corrosion from among other sulphide. You then, with some amount of misguided exhilaration, claimed that this must come from explosives, completely rejecting the more plausible explanation while then claiming we are cherry-picking something. This is hilarious.

[Rustycage]

You're throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping one noodle will stick while completely ignoring the dozens of other shit.

Address everything, kiddies.

[Nobodys_Fault]

When. are. you. going. to. address. everything. instead. of. what. you. cherry. pick?

Each time your theory has been meticulously demolished you scream "cherry picker!"

There is literally no piece of 'evidence' you've produced that hasn't been debunked one way or another.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Nobodys_Fault

[SoulMonster]

You're throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping one noodle will stick while completely ignoring the dozens of other shit.

Address everything, kiddies.

What exactly hasn't been addressed?

[Rustycage]

When. are. you. going. to. address. everything. instead. of. what. you. cherry. pick?

Each time your theory has been meticulously demolished you scream "cherry picker!"

There is literally no piece of 'evidence' you've produced that hasn't been debunked one way or another.

No, most of the shit I want explained is either removed from quotes or not quoted at all. Your debunking is on a minor scale that doesn't explain other factors relative.

I started out just like you. The only difference is I don't completely ignore things because one thing may appear to have multiple possibilities.

33 pages in and the only thing you can address is metal.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Rustycage

[SoulMonster]

33 pages in and the only thing you can address is metal.

Your memory seems to be somewhat defective, so let me just remind of you of what I have addressed so far:

"What caused the twin towers to fall was a detonation, not the impact from two planes and the ensuing fire".

Your reasons for believing in this are (1) that you believe that planes, who are built of lighter and less sturdy material, can not possibly damage the integral structure of the towers necessary to cause a structural collapse, which demonstrates that don't understand that impact is a product of mass and velocity. A light, soft material can do amazing damage if just accelerated to sufficient speeds. (2) Thermite was found on the site which suggests that thermite was used as an explosive; the only problem is that this claim, which is presented in a no-cited article by a known oddball and conspiracy theorist in a notorious paper not taken seriously by scientists, is refuted by the whole scientific establishment. (3) Heavily corroded steel was found on the site which you believe must mean that thermite was used, although that is just conjuncture; a much more plausible explanation is that the steel was corroded by materials released in the inferno. (4) Some people, including firemen, claimed to have heard secondary explosions (=explosions after the impact of the planes), which really isn't mysterious at all, one would expect lots of explosion-like noises caused by falling debris, collapsing buildings, generators blowing up, etc. And (5) that a picture showing a steel beam must indicate nano-thermite at work, despite the fact that the cut is diagonal and hence can't have been made through the action of thermite, and that other pictures show demolition people cutting similar steel beams as part of them cleaning the site.

"WTC 7 did not collapse as a result of the 8 hour long ravaging fires and the impact from pieces of one of the towers who fell on it, but rather because of another detonation".

Your reasons for believing this are (1) someone said that it was time to "pull" the building, which it is much more sensible to assume was meant as a time for pull the firemen out of the building, (2) that the speed of falling somehow was too high which for unknown and amusing reasons must mean that the collapse was caused by the structure being demolished by explosives and not that the structure was demolished by "mere" fires and impact, (3) that the structure fell right down and not over to one side, which demonstrates that you don't know much about how tall buildings fall, and (4) that neither the fires or impact damage was sufficient to bring it down based on a few pictures which doesn't document the extent of neither fire or impact damage.

"No plane hit the Pentagon" (my personal favourite).

Your reason for believing this is (1) that you claim that no pieces of the plane was found on site, something which is just plain wrong since numerous pieces of the plane (as well as the passengers) were found on site and have been posted in this very thread, and (2) that the damage to the building wasn't large enough, which is wrong, it was just as large as expected when you take into account the momentum of the plane and the structure of the building.

"Something is fuzzy about the flight 93 crash site".

Your reasons for believing this are (1) that you claim no plane debris was found at the impact crater, which is just plain wrong, lots were found, most of it embedded deep into the ground (the voice recorder was found at 8 meters depth) -- but most of the pieces were really small, disintegrated to smithereens, (2) no bodies were found, which is right but irrelevant sice more than 1500 pieces of bodies were found as through DNA analysis confirmed to come from at least 34 of the passengers, and (3) that debris was found 8 miles away....but this was light debris that could easily have been taken there by the wind.

Now, tell me, what have I not addressed so far?

[magisme]

I wanted to stay out of this one. I have enjoyed the debates. Inside job, my ass!

I think "inside job" is an awfully tough thing to argue based on circumstantial evidence. I'm more like, "Do we really know the whole story?" And my guess is, no, we do not.

Maybe not, but we have enough facts to say this was an act of terror. And not by our government.

I disagree.

[Nobodys_Fault]

I started out just like you.

Maybe. I once entertained the idea because I'd watched a few documentaries and some things seemed amiss. When I went and did my own research I quickly found that most of it was bullshit and there was a logical explanation for each and every claim of a conspiracy put forward. When faced with the evidence the theory just didn't make any sense.

I still believe (in fact I don't think there's much doubt) that the Bush administration used 9/11 as a means to invade Iraq. I still believe the Al Queda described by that administration is a ghost story, a fictional "web of terror" conjured up to unite the American people in war against a mythical evil. But that's where the conspiracy ends. The 9/11 terror attacks were carried out by a small group of extremist who acquired funding from a rich Saudi man with an idea - the west, specifically the US, was the source of the moral decay in the world. A dangerous idea but, after a failed revolution, one with little support never mind a vast network of international terrorists. By giving them a name the American government inadvertently spread the only thing "Al Queda" was - an idea.

[Rustycage]

• Explain the military drills on the same day and time with scenarios similar enough to make the transition "minimal."
• Why did air traffic controllers get confused by the attacks and assume it could have been an exercise?
• Address the coincidence of Silverstein putting down 15 million to become owner, injects an insurance clause that if the buildings are hit by a terrorist attack, that he pays nothing more. As a result, he receives a net profit of 7 billion dollars.
• Address the strange market activity just prior to 9/11 revolving around companies affected by the attack.
• Address surviving hijackers.
• Explain why the FBI has never revised it's hijacker list after it was revealed some on their list were confirmed to be alive.
• Why were the supposed Islamic fanatics said to be in bars and drinking? That's a contradiction of an Islamic extremist.
• Why would they force passengers to call relatives?
• Address how the magic passport landed on the ground in NYC in pristine condition.
• Address the fuselage.
• Address the small explosions at the tips of both planes immediately before impact.
• Explain the videos of explosions heard.
• Explain the reports of the explosions.
• Explain how several news networks reported the collapse of WTC7 in advance when structural failure can take an unspecified amount of time to cause collapse.
• Address the free fall speed of WTC7 that NIST coincidentally fucked up the investigation on.
• Address Rumsfeld saying Flight 93 was shot down.
• Explain why debris from Flight 93 was found 8 miles away.
• Address why witnesses to the scene said there were no bodies, no blood and no plane?
• Why does the wing portion of that crash site match aerial pictures taken of the area in 1994?
• Explain why fighter jets were reported by air traffic controllers to be circling Flight 93 and in visual range at the time of the "crash."
• Explain Rumsfeld and a 9/11 commissioner slipping up and saying a missile hit the Pentagon.
• Explain why 84 of the 85 surveillance videos from the Pentagon that day were not released. All we receive is the low frame rate checkpoint video.
• Why do we still have no video of photo of the Pentagon plane?
• Address how a supposed pulverized plane that just crashed into the Pentagon can create the hole on the back wall.
• Explain how there is absolutely no damage consistent with a plane crash visible in the images of the Pentagon wall before it collapsed.
• Why was the 9/11 investigation delayed over a year and horribly funded? As a result majority of those on the commission believe it was set up to fail. WHY?!
• Why didn't NORAD react to the "hijackings?"
• Why did NORAD lie to the 9/11 commission?
• Why was Cheney acting in charge of NORAD?
• Where was Rumsfeld? Why was he MIA?
• Why did John Ashcroft stop flying commercial in July of 01 because of an unspecified "threat?"
• When Bush was told about the attacks, why did he just sit there for several minutes?
• Also, why didn't the secret service get him the hell out of there when they supposedly knew the country was under attack?
• Why did Bush say he saw the first plane crash into the WTC? Further explanation as to why he would say he saw the crash and "thought it was pilot error?" No fool said pilot error after the second plane hit so him being confused by which plane it was doesn't excuse it
• If, he indeed did witness it, who recorded it? The only video of it released wasn't aired live and wasn't known until later.
• Why was the security meeting scheduled for 9/11 cancelled by WTC management?
• Why was FEMA in New York the night before 9/11?
• Why did the flight responders of all planes go down for a short period all within 10 minutes of each other?
• Why was Atta's bag found at the airport and it not put on the plane by employees? Another coincidence?
• Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that he would commit suicide in a way that would destroy the contents?
• Why are employees of the carrier prevented from talking about 9/11?
• Why did Atta leave his driver's license in a rental car?
• Why are the flight data recorders information so tightly controlled by the FBI?
• Explain the inconsistencies of the "Bin Laden confession" video. Mainly the contradictions of Bin Ladens mannerisms, strong hand and jewelry(that contradict an Islamic extremist).
• Why was Cynthia McKinney attacked for her questioning of the events surrounding 9/11?
• Why did Mark Bingham reportedly say to his mother, "Mom, this is Mark Bingham" Who talks to their mother this way?
• Why did Mark also say, "You believe me, don't you, Mom?"
• Why did Cheney talk about taking Cipro the day after the attacks when the Anthrax attacks weren't even mailed until a week later?
• Why were those letters mailed to officials critical of the newly proposed Patriot Act that was just proposed 2 days earlier?
• Why did the letters contain the writing, "Death to America, Death to Israel, Allah is Great" when it is later blamed on a domestic source?

Try a little something more than ice cube discussions and possibilities of the Swiss cheese steel.

[Apollo]

Rusty.......you are one of my favorite posters on the GnR section, so don't take offense by my question. I can't tell if you are actually serious about all of this, or are you just pulling people's chains?

[Guest Len B'stard]

The fact is some people just WANNA believe this shit? It's a slight giveaway when you talk to someone and they're like Cobains death? Murder! 9/11? Conspiracy! JFK assassination? Conspiracy! The Moon Landing? Conspiracy!

Rustycage is one of them (sorry Rusts, i'm sure you're a cool person and that but there's a clear pattern here, i hope you won't start having a go at me now )

What i wanna know is how the fuck you lot find the time to do all this fuckin' research.

Edited May 1, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Rustycage]

Those 50 were a starting point. Either answer the questions or address someone else. Attacking me doesn't bring the answers.

And of course I believe what is testified and admitted to. Hence the questions.

Anyone here around 03-04 would remember those political discussions. I rejected any of this shit. I supported that stupid war. I owe a huge apology to This_Guy anda couple of others I don't remember regarding Iraq and all relative. I was a hard headed shithead that took the face value of everything and refused to ask or answer important questions. I'll just say I'm glad I take a closer look at things now and don't just gobble up whatever I'm told like an idiot. Some people learn their lessons and some do not. I weigh everything equally and objectively and when there seems to be heat and smoke, I ask if there's a fire.

You can attack me all you like but you aren't saying anything I either didn't say myself or haven't heard before. I understand some like to play ass grab and circle jerk in fashion topics and such. It's not my thing but if that's the type of shit you prefer 24/7, then stay there.

Yes, I believe there are many unanswered questions about JFK, MLK, RFK and X. I also think that in order to debunk anything, you must answer the questions. Refusing to answer them and mocking gets neither of us anywhere.

The biggest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. At this point, in this country, people have naturally redefined conspiracy theory into taboo and convince themselves that nothing bad could exist. They are primed up, oiled up, ass in the air just waiting to get fucked.

Rusty - you believe in the Devil?

I used it for the point. It's irrelevant here and derailment but I believe that good and bad exists in everyone. I don't think there's a guy with horns downstairs and an old man with a white beard upstairs. You can't have the good without the bad. Balance. But that's irrelevant and not even the point.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Rustycage

[Coma16]

Rusty - you believe in the Devil?

[Dazey]

And when they can't explain it, they just excuse it.

Are you just a little bit slow or something? There are a bunch of entirely plausible sources it may have come from or it could be a combination of many. The fact that they were unable to say "well the sulphur trace in support beam #237 came from a broken computer monitor in the corner office on the 87th floor" doesn't mean they have no idea what happened it simply means it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty given the analytical techniques available to the investigators. It doesn't suggest anything untoward in any way shape or form. Edited May 1, 2013 by Dazey

[Rustycage]

No, I'm not slow. I've been talking about all of the other shit you guys have been dismissing for pages now. You still think I'm referring to the metal.