When did GN'R have the sharpest decline in their popularity?

[volcano62]

there's truly no accounting for taste. TSI has grown on me over the years and I think it´s very good.

If they covered better songs instead of crap nobody has heard of it would have been epic.

Imagine a cover album with some Stones, Aerosmith, Queen, ACDC etc material

[magisme]

there's truly no accounting for taste. TSI has grown on me over the years and I think it´s very good.

If they covered better songs instead of crap nobody has heard of it would have been epic.

Imagine a cover album with some Stones, Aerosmith, Queen, ACDC etc material

TSI isn't great, but the entire point was that they cover songs most people didn't know.

[TombRaider]

Hm... aerosmith and ACDC... that'd have been awesome

[shotgunblues1978]

TSI was very poorly received given their relative of popularity at the time. The UYI albums were a massive success both critically and commercially, and the TSI was a dud on both levels. For TSI to only go single platinum in the US at that point in time would be the equivalent of a Guns album selling 100,000 total copies today. UYI sold about 15 million combined in the US, TSI sold 1 million. That's a huge drop off. And yes, it's a covers album which contributed to that decline, but its performance was still quite poor even with that in mind.

GnR was seen as very uncool in the US by the mid 90s. The public perception of the band (and I mean the classic era), at least in the United States, is much higher now than it was in 1994 or 1995. Classic era GnR is certainly more popular now than it was in 1995. So the sharpest decline had nothing to do with CD, or the VMAs, or any of that.

The 2002 VMAs were bad though, and the press did not react kindly. It's unfortunate that Axl did not turn up sounding and looking like he did at the 2006 Rock Am Ring, especially on Jungle. I think he would've won a lot of people over with a performance like that.

Edited April 30, 2013 by shotgunblues1978

[Lies They Tell]

Maybe. But you can't assume that if someone didn't like or doesn't like CD, it's because they're a hater. Or that if someone says they dislike CD, it's because they're afraid to say they actually like it. I don't know.

We have to assume that yes, there are people who don't like CD. Period.

Yeah, I never claimed that there wouldn't be people who genuinely don't like the album. I just said that there are many people who do think it's a good album but don't really know if it's okay to admit it because of the popular opinion.

Surely some people lost their interest in GNR because of Chinese Democracy, but some people also became fans of the band because of CD. So overall I don't think GNR lost fans because of the album. Right now many people are kinda unsure of what to think of new GNR. Because CD is a good album but not really good enough to justify the time it took to create. I think the next album will play a crucial part in how people will view new GNR in the future.

[volcano62]

Maybe. But you can't assume that if someone didn't like or doesn't like CD, it's because they're a hater. Or that if someone says they dislike CD, it's because they're afraid to say they actually like it. I don't know.

We have to assume that yes, there are people who don't like CD. Period.

Yeah, I never claimed that there wouldn't be people who genuinely don't like the album. I just said that there are many people who do think it's a good album but don't really know if it's okay to admit it because of the popular opinion.

Surely some people lost their interest in GNR because of Chinese Democracy, but some people also became fans of the band because of CD. So overall I don't think GNR lost fans because of the album. Right now many people are kinda unsure of what to think of new GNR. Because CD is a good album but not really good enough to justify the time it took to create. I think the next album will play a crucial part in how people will view new GNR in the future.

Next album is make or break for GNR.

[TombRaider]

Indeed.

[dalsh327]

2002 tour, the Vancouver & Philly shows, as well as other cities being cancelled, a lot of people were fed up.

I think "Since I Don't Have You" turned people off of the entire album ("Hair of the Dog" was the more popular song off the CD) and "Estranged" coming out weeks after TSI made no sense, plus Duff had his solo CD out and touring for that. I wonder if Bowie's "Cracked Actor" cover Duff did would've wound up on TSI.

Cheetah Chrome said he's very thankful for TSI coming out when it did, he had little money and a kid on the way.

Covers albums traditionally never do well, Metallica's the exception (maybe Manilow, Rod Stewart and Michael McDonald doing those "songbooks"). GNR put that out because they wanted people to hear the original versions, and what band isn't asked who their influences are?

[dalsh327]

Maybe. But you can't assume that if someone didn't like or doesn't like CD, it's because they're a hater. Or that if someone says they dislike CD, it's because they're afraid to say they actually like it. I don't know.

We have to assume that yes, there are people who don't like CD. Period.

Yeah, I never claimed that there wouldn't be people who genuinely don't like the album. I just said that there are many people who do think it's a good album but don't really know if it's okay to admit it because of the popular opinion.

Surely some people lost their interest in GNR because of Chinese Democracy, but some people also became fans of the band because of CD. So overall I don't think GNR lost fans because of the album. Right now many people are kinda unsure of what to think of new GNR. Because CD is a good album but not really good enough to justify the time it took to create. I think the next album will play a crucial part in how people will view new GNR in the future.

Next album is make or break for GNR.

I don't know about make or break, but we know the band is tired of doing the same batch of songs over and over. If the band didn't have lengthy breaks and didn't work on their own projects, most of them would've quit.

By the time Chinese Democracy came out, people were just curious to hear it after 15 years, and most of those people just streamed it on My Space. I don't think it's an album that hooks you in on first listen, but the makings of a great album is like that, you might go WTF at first, but come back to it over time. No one ever said they hated it, some people just said it sounded like other bands and it was "okay". Maybe Axl would've rather have had people hate it than get a lackluster response to it. To me it's a great album but it's not something I would say was the greatest album ever made, I thought it was a little too heavy on the ballads, and maybe if it had been 2 CDs, would've felt differently about it.

Axl could've easily done what Billy Corgan did with Machina II, just put it out online, fuck the record label .

[DieselDaisy]

The thing is, GN'R never really answered grunge and mid '90s rock, they didn't go head-to-head with Pearl Jam and Soundgarden at their peak (well, they were sort of wrapping up the Illusion tour) and the early nu-metal bands which began to dominate, 1995 onwards. All GN'R did between 1994 and 1997 was fight amongst themselves and disintergrate. And Axl's answer didn't even emerge until 2008 when, not only grunge but nu-metal were long dead genres!!

I see two wretched phrases in GN'R:

- 1994-97, for obvious reasons

- 2003-2005, this killed off any chance for Democracy. All Axl was doing was adding overdubs onto overdubs and killing off the record. Meanwhile, the public who were momentarly interested in Nugnr at Rio 3 and the leaks, again lost interest. If CD was already a bit of a joke in 2002 for its delay, it become a massive joke when Axl turned into a recluse again in 2003. 'Chinese Democracy' sort of became a synonym for a delayed record. It was also an industry joke. This period also affected the record financially as Geffen withdrew their funding in early 2004 when Axl yet again missed a deadline. Perhaps nugnr's relations with Geffen-Interscope have not really recovered to this day.

[gnrfan2007]

Clearly 1993. Grunge/Nirvana killed GN'R. They went from the número uno to forgotten irrelevant bloated has beens. It must have been a very bitter pill.

Ironically, I believe the public would now accept them reclaiming their status ....... Because they are deserving.

If you wanted a timeline, then [old] GnR decline began somewhere between January 1992 and June 1992.

January 1992: Nirvana's "Nevermind" displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries. The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."

June 1992: Pearl Jam's "Ten" hit number 8 on the Billboard album charts. "Ten" would then surpass Nirvana's "Nevermind" in sales by 1993.

June 6 1992: GnR's PPV Paris Concert Show. The last major GnR event.

Pearl Jam and Nirvana would became the new kings of rock n' roll. Critics would declare Pearl Jam as the rock n' roll band of the '90s.

[old] GnR had become irrevelant, as '80s rock had finally been killed off. People jumped off the GnR bandwagon and hopped on to the alternative rock band wagon.

You could not openly admit you were an [old] GnR fan because you would face ridicule and/or getting your ass kicked!

If you were truly objective, you could admit that GnR's hard-rock sound ... paled in comparison to what the grunge bands were doing. Slash's "Joe Perry rip-off" sound had become cheezy.

This is what GnR today has to contend with. They have to prove themselves again. They have to make it cool again to be GnR fans ... to get all the closet GnR fans out. They have to kick azz and piss on all those alternative rock and new rock bands that pissed on them in the '90s and today.

So its funny when you get Slasholes blaming Axl and CD for GnR's decline. [old] GnR declined began in 1992!

[liers]

I would say around the time of the 2002 MTV thing.

Before that the media said that the 2001 concerts were great, mtv happens and things changed.

Axl could've reversed it by releasing CD that year, but we all know what happened to that....

Clearly 1993. Grunge/Nirvana killed GN'R. They went from the número uno to forgotten irrelevant bloated has beens. It must have been a very bitter pill.
Ironically, I believe the public would now accept them reclaiming their status ....... Because they are deserving.

If you wanted a timeline, then [old] GnR decline began somewhere between January 1992 and June 1992.

January 1992: Nirvana's "Nevermind" displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries. The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."

June 1992: Pearl Jam's "Ten" hit number 8 on the Billboard album charts. "Ten" would then surpass Nirvana's "Nevermind" in sales by 1993.

June 6 1992: GnR's PPV Paris Concert Show. The last major GnR event.

Pearl Jam and Nirvana would became the new kings of rock n' roll. Critics would declare Pearl Jam as the rock n' roll band of the '90s.

[old] GnR had become irrevelant, as '80s rock had finally been killed off. People jumped off the GnR bandwagon and hopped on to the alternative rock band wagon.

You could not openly admit you were an [old] GnR fan because you would face ridicule and/or getting your ass kicked!

If you were truly objective, you could admit that GnR's hard-rock sound ... paled in comparison to what the grunge bands were doing. Slash's "Joe Perry rip-off" sound had become cheezy.

This is what GnR today has to contend with. They have to prove themselves again. They have to make it cool again to be GnR fans ... to get all the closet GnR fans out. They have to kick azz and piss on all those alternative rock and new rock bands that pissed on them in the '90s and today.

So its funny when you get Slasholes blaming Axl and CD for GnR's decline. [old] GnR declined began in 1992!

GnR only became irrellevent in the mid 90s because they didn't do anything except release TSI, which was kind of the red headed step child of the band who noone liked.

The general public doesn't follow a band that is doing nothing.

[Guest NGOG]

Firstly, when Nirvana became the it band and GNR were no longer deemed cool by the hipster majority. Then Slash left and that alienated a considerable element of support however people still held out in the hope that Axl could produce something memorable quickly and save rock, literally. There was still a lot of interest in GN'R leading upto the 21st century despite Slash's departure. There was a strange faith in Axl. Oh My God in 1999 is where the steady decline began. This was a very heavy way to introduce the public to new GNR and I think a lot of people got off the Axl boat right there. With reports by Kurt Loder during 2001, people got excited by the alleged great shows being put on by the peculiar new ensemble. This was ruined by the VMA catastrophe and Axl's alternative singing style and 2002 is where GNR became a bit of a cult act. Endearing to a committed minority and declarded a farce by most. 2002, all the way up to 2005, marked a steady decline in GNR's public image. Axl went ahead and saved GNR in 2006 by putting together a more GNResque band aesthetically, making a more fan friendly MTV appearance and generally behaving more normal, even completing a Vogue shoot. An air of openness with regards new music was created by 2006. Then, the album itself is released but again GNR are damaged publicly by an AWOL Axl, non-existent promotion, departure of Robin Finck and lack of touring.

Then Axl plays his hardball. Brings in the very popular Dj Ashba and embarks on a near five year trek of the globe adapting the band into the conditions of modern day society (great Kimmel appearance, a very popular Facebook and Twitter, regular public outtings). Axl achieved his well-deserved rep of a sweet guy with good intentions and finally created a well-oiled live machine vaguely reminiscent of the glory era. Regardless of forum opinion, as far as public rep, GNR hasn't enjoyed better attitudes since Slash and company.

[izzydoezit]

Clearly 1993. Grunge/Nirvana killed GN'R. They went from the número uno to forgotten irrelevant bloated has beens. It must have been a very bitter pill.

Ironically, I believe the public would now accept them reclaiming their status ....... Because they are deserving.

If you wanted a timeline, then [old] GnR decline began somewhere between January 1992 and June 1992.

January 1992: Nirvana's "Nevermind" displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries. The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."

June 1992: Pearl Jam's "Ten" hit number 8 on the Billboard album charts. "Ten" would then surpass Nirvana's "Nevermind" in sales by 1993.

June 6 1992: GnR's PPV Paris Concert Show. The last major GnR event.

Pearl Jam and Nirvana would became the new kings of rock n' roll. Critics would declare Pearl Jam as the rock n' roll band of the '90s.

[old] GnR had become irrevelant, as '80s rock had finally been killed off. People jumped off the GnR bandwagon and hopped on to the alternative rock band wagon.

You could not openly admit you were an [old] GnR fan because you would face ridicule and/or getting your ass kicked!

If you were truly objective, you could admit that GnR's hard-rock sound ... paled in comparison to what the grunge bands were doing. Slash's "Joe Perry rip-off" sound had become cheezy.

This is what GnR today has to contend with. They have to prove themselves again. They have to make it cool again to be GnR fans ... to get all the closet GnR fans out. They have to kick azz and piss on all those alternative rock and new rock bands that pissed on them in the '90s and today.

So its funny when you get Slasholes blaming Axl and CD for GnR's decline. [old] GnR declined began in 1992!

Most of what you said is bullshit.

Getting your ass kicked for being a GNR fan? What are you talking about? Up until 1994 GNR was EVERYWHERE. On MTV, on shops on T-shirts on magazine stands, everywhere.

Especially in 1993 in europe they were the biggest thing.

The decline of course came after 1994.

1992-1993 were years that GNR were huge and not in decline.

[Vincent Vega]

If GN'R was considered uncool in 1992, how did Sympathy for the Devil become a Billboard Hot 100 hit in 1995? It #55 early that year, which is actually higher than a lot of Nirvana's singles hit on the same chart.

Hell, November Rain hit #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 in June 1992--Nearly a year after Nevermind came out.

The "Nirvana Killed GN'R" myth is just that...a revisionist myth. GN'R killed itself.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[DieselDaisy]

#55 is simply embarrassing. Good for a new band just starting out but not for a band notching up top ten hits only two years earlier.

[Vincent Vega]

#55 is simply embarrassing. Good for a new band just starting out but not for a band notching up top ten hits only two years earlier.

#55 is good considering:

1) The song was a cover which had no promotion and no video accompanying it.

2) Was put out by a band which hadn't performed live or released an album in over a year, hadn't had a joint interview or press conference in almost two years, and was seemingly on hiatus or dead in the water, and whose last album of original material was four years earlier.

Like I said, it charted higher than some Nirvana songs at the height of Nirvana's popularity.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[shotgunblues1978]

If GN'R was considered uncool in 1992, how did Sympathy for the Devil become a Billboard Hot 100 hit in 1995? It #55 early that year, which is actually higher than a lot of Nirvana's singles hit on the same chart.

Hell, November Rain hit #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 in June 1992--Nearly a year after Nevermind came out.

The "Nirvana Killed GN'R" myth is just that...a revisionist myth. GN'R killed itself.

By that logic, GnR was considered cool in 2008. Chinese Democracy (the song) hit #34 on the Billboard Hot 100. But that kind of goes against everything that you claim on this board, doesn't it?

I do agree that Nirvana had little to do with GnR's decline. To me it was more to do with the infighting, the continual bad press, the poorly received Spaghetti Incident album, and general "fatigue" from the American public.

[WhazUp]

Clearly 1993. Grunge/Nirvana killed GN'R. They went from the número uno to forgotten irrelevant bloated has beens. It must have been a very bitter pill.

Ironically, I believe the public would now accept them reclaiming their status ....... Because they are deserving.

If you wanted a timeline, then [old] GnR decline began somewhere between January 1992 and June 1992.

January 1992: Nirvana's "Nevermind" displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries. The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."

June 1992: Pearl Jam's "Ten" hit number 8 on the Billboard album charts. "Ten" would then surpass Nirvana's "Nevermind" in sales by 1993.

June 6 1992: GnR's PPV Paris Concert Show. The last major GnR event.

Pearl Jam and Nirvana would became the new kings of rock n' roll. Critics would declare Pearl Jam as the rock n' roll band of the '90s.

[old] GnR had become irrevelant, as '80s rock had finally been killed off. People jumped off the GnR bandwagon and hopped on to the alternative rock band wagon.

You could not openly admit you were an [old] GnR fan because you would face ridicule and/or getting your ass kicked!

If you were truly objective, you could admit that GnR's hard-rock sound ... paled in comparison to what the grunge bands were doing. Slash's "Joe Perry rip-off" sound had become cheezy.

This is what GnR today has to contend with. They have to prove themselves again. They have to make it cool again to be GnR fans ... to get all the closet GnR fans out. They have to kick azz and piss on all those alternative rock and new rock bands that pissed on them in the '90s and today.

So its funny when you get Slasholes blaming Axl and CD for GnR's decline. [old] GnR declined began in 1992!

Most of what you said is bullshit.

Getting your ass kicked for being a GNR fan? What are you talking about? Up until 1994 GNR was EVERYWHERE. On MTV, on shops on T-shirts on magazine stands, everywhere.

Especially in 1993 in europe they were the biggest thing.

The decline of course came after 1994.

1992-1993 were years that GNR were huge and not in decline.

Yeah this guy has some pretty biased/deluded ideas regarding this topic

[Nosaj Thing]

No one gives a fuck about CD. No one cares about the band's members post Slash and Duff. When will people get this?

This. Definitely.

[Randy Lahey]

Nirvana had nothing to do with GNR's decline. That's all retrospective nonsense made up by rock journalists.

[jmapelian]

Clearly 1993. Grunge/Nirvana killed GN'R. They went from the número uno to forgotten irrelevant bloated has beens. It must have been a very bitter pill.

Ironically, I believe the public would now accept them reclaiming their status ....... Because they are deserving.

If you wanted a timeline, then [old] GnR decline began somewhere between January 1992 and June 1992.

January 1992: Nirvana's "Nevermind" displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries. The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."

June 1992: Pearl Jam's "Ten" hit number 8 on the Billboard album charts. "Ten" would then surpass Nirvana's "Nevermind" in sales by 1993.

June 6 1992: GnR's PPV Paris Concert Show. The last major GnR event.

Pearl Jam and Nirvana would became the new kings of rock n' roll. Critics would declare Pearl Jam as the rock n' roll band of the '90s.

[old] GnR had become irrevelant, as '80s rock had finally been killed off. People jumped off the GnR bandwagon and hopped on to the alternative rock band wagon.

You could not openly admit you were an [old] GnR fan because you would face ridicule and/or getting your ass kicked!

If you were truly objective, you could admit that GnR's hard-rock sound ... paled in comparison to what the grunge bands were doing. Slash's "Joe Perry rip-off" sound had become cheezy.

This is what GnR today has to contend with. They have to prove themselves again. They have to make it cool again to be GnR fans ... to get all the closet GnR fans out. They have to kick azz and piss on all those alternative rock and new rock bands that pissed on them in the '90s and today.

So its funny when you get Slasholes blaming Axl and CD for GnR's decline. [old] GnR declined began in 1992!

WTF are you talking about dumbass, they were selling out fucking stadiums in 1992. The only thing that detracted from their popularity was axl's diva rock start act coiming on stage 2-3 hrs late, starting riots, etc. Grunge had nothing to do with their demise as after UYI tour, they essentially disappeared and then the defections happenend.

[rocknroll41]

It was the release of ChiDem for sure. Back when that album was coming out I was only a kid and my young peers all knew it was about to come out and a good chunk of them gave it a listen on MySpace since it had taken so long to make and had all this hype surrounding it. But none of them liked what they had heard and I'm pretty sure none of them give a shit about Gnr now. Make no mistake, all hope for Gnr regaining current popularity died with the failure of ChiDem.

[Dariablue]

What JM said. People are absurd.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Dariablue

[axlinkafayette]

The minute Axl decided to trot out "his" version of Guns n' Roses sans everyone original except him