Is there anything Axl could've done to keep Buckethead in the band?

[TombRaider]

Based on those 2 awesome posts, could it be assumed that Ashba is the complete opposite of Buckethead?

[dalsh327]

Ask Mantia. Bucket seems happy with Bootsy. Odds are, if Buckethead showed up, Bootsy would also be coming along.

Can Axl bring on da funk?

Edited June 9, 2013 by dalsh327

[Bruno P.]

I know they asked a lot of guitarists to audition. You said you were asked to join the band, not to audition first. That's a whole different story.

That file you posted sounded a lot more like Buckethead than Slash, specifically those fast runs.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Bruno Poeys

[shotgunblues1978]

This guy is pretty clearly an alias of another user (BBA?). He posts a lot of vaguely believeable (but completely unverifiable) claims. It's easy to present things as fact when you know that nobody will be able to "prove" them false, and nobody "official" will bother to address them.

But when you look at the actual claims, some of them make no sense whatsoever. For example, he claims that Axl never had a real desire to have GnR be anything more than a "greatest hits" live band, and that he never really cared about advancing the band artistically with new material. But if that's the case, why bother going to such great lengths pursuing Buckethead in the first place? Why bother making so many promises that he (supposedly) never intended to keep just to land Bucket? Why bother trying to get him back on multiple occasions? Let's be real, Buckethead is a great guitarist but he doesn't really add anything to the band from a commercial perspective, UNLESS they are releasing new material that he is a part of (which again, he claims Axl never really cared about).

Similarly, he says Axl dislikes Ron's playing and songwriting. If that is the case, why did he hire him in the first place? And why has he not simply fired him? Why did he feature Ron more prominently on CD than Fortus (not just on lead, but on rhythm as well) even though Fortus had been in the band for 6 years by that point in time, compared to 2 for Ron? Why did Ron have the primary solo on more songs than Robin on the final album?

Like I said, some of what he says is vaguely believable, but he undermines it with his inablity to tone the venom down when appropriate, and also by failing to think through some of the logic (or lack thereof) in some of the statements.

[Crash Diet]

Release music on a regular basis.

[themadcaplaughs]

Technically Buckethead through his sporadic departures and lack of communication did compromise whatever touring plans were in place during that year however obviously Axl was in part to blame for Buckethead's departure to begin with.

All this stuff about Buckethead being "sporadic" and not communicating is not true. Buckethead was there for every rehearsal, show, jam, etc. Buckethead officially quit in late 2002 or early 2003. The band's management probably never told Axl (who really did like Buckethead) that he'd left, probably thinking that if they threw enough money at Buckethead at a later date, he'd come back. If I remember correctly, Buckethead even continued to get paid for a few months after turning in his resignation.

When the ball finally started rolling again, and Buckethead was nowhere to be be found, management (and from what I've read probably other band members and hangers-on) started making stuff up about Buckethead being unreliable and in it only for himself.

I love Buckethead, but even I can say him joining Guns N' Roses was bound to end in failure because the respective goals of each institution are too different. Just be happy we got all he great stuff he did on Chinese Democracy and (hopefully) he'll be on upcoming albums.

Other things to point out, from what I heard Axl was at least interested in playing more Chinese Democracy material in 2002, but ticket sales for the shows were so abysmal (outside of Madison Square Garden, all of the shows sold horribly) that management and promotion specifically requested the set be more of a grab bag of oldies with a handful of new songs thrown in.

Also, Thal started as a Buckethead replacement in every sense of the word. I cannot confirm anything that has been said about Axl not getting along with Ron or not liking his music, but Thal was hired specifically because he could replicate Buckethead's parts consistently. Also, as much as people around here seem to think Ron is the only one with integrity, it was specifically written in his contract that if Buckethead were to be lured back ANYTIME before the band started playing in 2006, Ron was out. That means if Buckethead showed up with guitar in hand 20 minutes before the shows at Hammerstein, Ron would have been out of a gig. Ron knew from the start what he was getting into and that is why I laugh when he whines about no new music.

Edited June 9, 2013 by themadcaplaughs

[Amir]

Also, as much as people around here seem to think Ron is the only one with integrity, it was specifically written in his contract that if Buckethead were to be lured back ANYTIME before the band started playing in 2006, Ron was out. That means if Buckethead showed up with guitar in hand 20 minutes before the shows at Hammerstein, Ron would have been out of a gig. Ron knew from the start what he was getting into and that is why I laugh when he whines about no new music.

Whoa.

With regards to '02 setlist, did Axl seriously think he could ever play more CD songs before releasing the album? Though I guess he did believe he could release CD in '02, before Roy Thomas Baker and Bob Ezrin said it needed work.

[shotgunblues1978]

Also, Thal started as a Buckethead replacement in every sense of the word. I cannot confirm anything that has been said about Axl not getting along with Ron or not liking his music, but Thal was hired specifically because he could replicate Buckethead's parts consistently. Also, as much as people around here seem to think Ron is the only one with integrity, it was specifically written in his contract that if Buckethead were to be lured back ANYTIME before the band started playing in 2006, Ron was out. That means if Buckethead showed up with guitar in hand 20 minutes before the shows at Hammerstein, Ron would have been out of a gig. Ron knew from the start what he was getting into and that is why I laugh when he whines about no new music.

Yeah, I think it has been established and is pretty well accepted as true that they wanted to get Buckethead back in 2006 and tried until the 11th hour to do so.

I also don't doubt that they tried to get him back again after Robin left (the slot eventually filled by DJ)

Perfectly plausible. But "lllll" can't just stop there, because his venom/bitterness is too great.

The comments about Axl not liking Ron's guitarwork don't add up. If Axl simply viewed him as a necessary evil, someone who could play Bucket's parts in a live setting, then CD wouldn't have featured Ron's guitarwork so prominently, and he certainly wouldn't have had him replace several of Bucket's solos on CD. I know that some will likely claim this was out of spite, but that's also complete BS because Bucket still had the most solos of any guitarist featured on the album.

[useyorappetite]

If axl had gone solo he would've released the album by 2002 without having to worry about gnr legacy. but maybe bucket wouldn't have joined the band then not as much exposure.

I'm disappointing that bucket's so indifferent about gnr. sounds like the stuff in the vault are not that exciting. what does he think of his work in gnr?

[shotgunblues1978]

"the shows were jukebox hit shows. And Axl was pretty content with that, make no mistakes about it. There was no musical integrity involved, no matter how much Axl likes to portray himself as an integrity guy."

"We warned Bucket before joining it would not be about the music at all but he gave it a shot after Axl's incessant promises. Axl is very good in being manipulative and convincing."

"And now look at what GNR is. Why would any musician with integrity who wants to be creative and make proper music even think of joining this?"

I don't have to twist anything. These are your direct quotes, stating pretty clearly that Axl didn't care at about musical integrity or new music.

Let me quote you again:

"We warned Bucket before joining it would not be about the music at all but he gave it a shot after Axl's incessant promises. Axl is very good in being manipulative and convincing."

So what are you saying here? Seems pretty clear that you're saying that Axl tricked or manipulated Buckethead into joining the band by making empty promises about his intention to focus on new music. But again, why would he even bother going out of his way to land Bucket and write music with him if these weren't his intentions at the time (regardless of whether he succeeded at following through with those intentions). So what was the addition of Buckethead about, if not "the music?"

We have another poster who seems far more credible (just as detailed a description, but lacking the bitterness), who states that Axl was indeed interested in focusing on new music during the 2002 tour, but that he received pushback from the tour promoters.

Edited June 9, 2013 by shotgunblues1978

[Nosaj Thing]

Also, as much as people around here seem to think Ron is the only one with integrity, it was specifically written in his contract that if Buckethead were to be lured back ANYTIME before the band started playing in 2006, Ron was out. That means if Buckethead showed up with guitar in hand 20 minutes before the shows at Hammerstein, Ron would have been out of a gig. Ron knew from the start what he was getting into and that is why I laugh when he whines about no new music.

Whoa.

With regards to '02 setlist, did Axl seriously think he could ever play more CD songs before releasing the album? Though I guess he did believe he could release CD in '02, before Roy Thomas Baker and Bob Ezrin said it needed work.

Indeed, impressive information.

The question is not directed at me but it was pretty clear that Axl's ambition was to focus on new material and sort of "bury" the old band. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.

[Stro]

I'm not sure bury is the correct word. I don't think he wanted to pretend the old band didn't happen, but he wanted a clear demarcation between phase one and phase two. That line has blurred considerably after 2002.

[Todo Poderoso Timão]

just wondering... he's a great musician and a very prolific composer. I will never say I'm a fan of the new lineup, but only a blind person, or a deaf one, would deny that having Buckethead in the band was great. I'm sure Axl knew this. Did Axl not try hard enough to keep him in the band?

Is there anything he could've done to talk Buckethead into staying? What did Buckethead see that Ashba has not seen?

Finish one only tour at least, w/out cancelling it.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Todo Poderoso Timão

[wasted]

I think the label kept knocking the wind out of Axl's sails. They had material to go in 2002, the label brought in Baker to re-record everything. Bob Ezrin told Axl he had 3 good songs. I think the label knew in 2002 CD wasn't going to storm the music world and putting their full promotional weight behind a trilogy of albums was suicide. But they paid 10 mil to bring in RTB which was insanity but maybe Axl had quit after that cancelled tour.

The way the band looked, they really needed to go all out with the CD Trilogy and Bucket with videos.

So in the end they re-grouped, somehow got this Best Buy deal that saved the project, got Axl some guys to play with who didn't look like extras from Night of the Living Dead.

In the end they fell ass backwards into being like a 90s band, with a mix tape of 90s inflected songs to add to the classics. I don't know if that was the plan.

They got some more reliable rock n roll tour dogs in the band up for the fight and they've toured themselves back into the game. Talk about doing it the hard way.

[themadcaplaughs]

I'm not sure bury is the correct word. I don't think he wanted to pretend the old band didn't happen, but he wanted a clear demarcation between phase one and phase two. That line has blurred considerably after 2002.

This sums it up perfectly. I'm not saying if Axl had his way we'd have been hearing Chinese Democracy in its entirety every night of the 2002 tour. The facts are that the band was able to play a LOT of songs and it seems like the sets we were getting in 2011/2012 (five or six songs from Chinese Democracy, the "hits," and some deeper album cuts like "Civil War" or "Estranged") were what Axl was wanting to do in 2002. At the end of the day, however, this is Axl Rose. Despite the hate lllll is receiving here, I would listen to him. I'm willing to bet he knows far more than I do, and as he pointed out what Axl Rose says one day and what happens are two totally different things.

I think lllll and Skewrel have both pointed out that if it were not for those final set of leaks, Chinese Democracy would still probably be sitting around in a hard drive somewhere. This is PURELY CONJECTURE on my part, but I think they both have a point that Axl may have been more content just playing the songs live and letting the occasional leak slip out just furthering its legacy.

[One.In.A.Million]

The reason why the 2002 band was so special is simply because with the inclusion of Bucket, it was destined to be a short lived formation. That band was probably the strongest line-up ever, next to the 2006 one, and it's a shame we never saw more of the Bucket-GN'R saga. Still it has to be one of the most intriguing band line-ups ever in my opinion.

[llll]

Lol at the admins here deleting all my posts and banning my account because they got a phone call from GNR Democracy

Proves I am not talking out of my ass then.

[Bruno P.]

Oh, of course not. You're really legit.

I can claim harsh and other stupid stuff as much as I want - if I think my posts will still still be here if I can't prove anything, well, I'd be more stupid than you. Even if I can prove, there's something called respect. It's not my place to claim anything about anyone's lives.

You attacked several people pretending to be the next MSL or Mysteron as far as being the next big insider, but anyone that's not as stupid as you will delete that kind of stuff.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Bruno Poeys