Update: BBF says GNR (STILL) "yet to write as a band."

[Johnny Drama]

Fucking LOL. Bumble and Richard need to ditch this shit band and just go do their own thing.

[Nosaj Thing]

Fucking LOL. Bumble and Richard need to ditch this shit band and just go do their own thing.

Money talks.

[shotgunblues1978]

Didn't Axl submit the album in a few times and the label wanted them to redo it? Had it came out as intended, back in 2003, then we may have had 2-3 more albums now.

It happened at least once, back in 2000 or so, shortly after Buckethead had joined and the label hired Roy Thomas Baker to come in and complete the album. Per Tommy, he basically wasted a bunch of time and millions of dollars by having them re-record songs that were already done a bunch of times.

I'm sure, looking back, they wish they would've just released the album at that point.

Seriously, do you believe this from Tommy--just another narrow sided take from the Guns camp that doesn't add up. I guess Roy Thomas Baker and Bob Ezrin are both POS producers who just didn't grasp the brilliance of the early recordings and were at fault for creating a costly mess. Here's a Ezrin interview where he talks about trying to deal with a near impossible situation with Axl missing most of the time. Nah, that couldn't be true.

I never said that RTB was a "POS" producer and I didn't mention Bob Ezrin at all. I also didn't say they "failed to grasp the genius" of the earlier recordings.

All I said was that I bet that looking back, the label wishes they'd just released the album as it existed in 2000 or 2001.

Brain and Tom Zutaut have also mentioned the inefficiency and reckless spending that was going on during the RTB era. It's not that he's a not a good producer, it's that he wasn't the right man for the job at that time. They needed someone to convince Axl the album was done, not that every single note of what they'd written needed to be re-recorded and perfected.

[highvoltage]

The thread title is a bit misleading - it quotes the comment from over 2 years ago to make it look like he said that recently. I guess it doesn't make much difference either way though.

[Turn_It_Up]

Didn't Axl submit the album in a few times and the label wanted them to redo it? Had it came out as intended, back in 2003, then we may have had 2-3 more albums now.

It happened at least once, back in 2000 or so, shortly after Buckethead had joined and the label hired Roy Thomas Baker to come in and complete the album. Per Tommy, he basically wasted a bunch of time and millions of dollars by having them re-record songs that were already done a bunch of times.

I'm sure, looking back, they wish they would've just released the album at that point.

Seriously, do you believe this from Tommy--just another narrow sided take from the Guns camp that doesn't add up. I guess Roy Thomas Baker and Bob Ezrin are both POS producers who just didn't grasp the brilliance of the early recordings and were at fault for creating a costly mess. Here's a Ezrin interview where he talks about trying to deal with a near impossible situation with Axl missing most of the time. Nah, that couldn't be true.

I never said that RTB was a "POS" producer and I didn't mention Bob Ezrin at all. I also didn't say they "failed to grasp the genius" of the earlier recordings.

All I said was that I bet that looking back, the label wishes they'd just released the album as it existed in 2000 or 2001.

Brain and Tom Zutaut have also mentioned the inefficiency and reckless spending that was going on during the RTB era. It's not that he's a not a good producer, it's that he wasn't the right man for the job at that time. They needed someone to convince Axl the album was done, not that every single note of what they'd written needed to be re-recorded and perfected.

You are saying RTB "wasn't the right man for the job" and essentially calling him inept by saying he wasted a bunch of time and millions of dollars asking them to needlessly re-record and perfect every single note. Again, do you believe that's the real or full story? Ezrin is saying Axl was hardly even around and wasting the money, so if true who would've been the right man for the job? I know--anyone who would've just granted Axl total control and mixed the album they put so much $$ into despite believing it's not good enough for release.

Of course in this situation the label probably looks back and wishes they'd stopped throwing good money after bad for this record and just released it in 2000/2001 since only the die hards(mostly internationally) bought the album, but they were actually trying to bring in top producers to improve the material. In no way, does Ezrin's interview indicate what Axl needed was someone to convince him the album was done. Re-read, it was the opposite.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Turn_It_Up

[shotgunblues1978]

There are plenty of quotes about RTB's process and how it wasn't working, or at least working efficiently. I'm not just making it up, and it's not just Tommy Stinson who said it. Like I said, Tom Zutaut and Brain have both said similar things.

Fully briefed, Zutaut entered the studio the next day without Axl and met with Roy Thomas Baker, with whom he had worked at Elektra Records. Axl had asked Zutaut to help with the drum sound for the album’s title track. The singer had told Baker that he wanted the same drum sound as Dave Grohl on Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” the breakthrough hit from the group’s album Nevermind. Baker and his production crew claimed they had it, but Axl was not satisfied.

After hearing the track for himself, Zutaut agreed with Axl. He took a break and went to the local Tower Records, where he bought a copy of Nevermind. Back in the studio, he and Baker set to work matching the drum sounds. “I guess maybe they heard the Nirvana hits on the radio and they just thought that they knew the sound,” Zutaut says. “But none of them had thought to just go buy the album and listen to it.”

They sent the finished recording to the Axl, who called Zutaut straight away. “I’ve only been asking for that for, like, six fucking months!” he said. “I wish I’d called you a couple of years ago. Can you come out here and do this?” Zutaut said he’d talk to Interscope/Geffen about it. He would, after all, be working for the label, not Axl.

...

“There was a bit of creative tension with Roy Thomas Baker,” Zutaut says. “Not because Roy is doing anything wrong or isn’t a great producer or anything like that. But you know, some people have friction. It’s like oil and water. It might have been cultural differences.”

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

Fucking LOL. Bumble and Richard need to ditch this shit band and just go do their own thing.

Money talks.

Yeah exactly. I mean c'mon lets get real here. As musicians it must be so frustrating because they are doing nothing new - even the touring, it's been the same setlist more or less for over 10 years! It has to be for the money or some naive hope an album will come at best. I assume they're not dumb though. I have no hope for a new album what so ever.

[Cruel Intentions]

It really makes me wonder if Fortus and DJ are just extremely naive when it comes to dealing with Axl or just overly optimistic. The fact that every member of this band has a different answer when asked about recording a new record should tell you all you need to know about where this band is at right now.

[SoulMonster]

It really makes me wonder if Fortus and DJ are just extremely naive when it comes to dealing with Axl or just overly optimistic. The fact that every member of this band has a different answer when asked about recording a new record should tell you all you need to know about where this band is at right now.

Err, no, they pretty much all say they have just started talking about a new record and sharing ideas for songs.

[magisme]

It really makes me wonder if Fortus and DJ are just extremely naive when it comes to dealing with Axl or just overly optimistic. The fact that every member of this band has a different answer when asked about recording a new record should tell you all you need to know about where this band is at right now.

It's all a waiting game until Axl says he's in. They can ship all the tapes they want back and forth. If Axl isn't a contributing member of the process, it ain't worth a shit.

[Estranged Reality]

I feel like Axl doesn't have much interest in new music. Put yourself in his shoes: he's making money touring with the new group, without releasing new material. Why put himself through another Chinese Democracy debacle? It probably disillusioned him very much, and the end result wasn't quite the epic payoff I imagine he was expecting or hoping for. I think at one point in time Axl was hungry to prove himself and separate himself from the old band, and that grand image in his mind included taking over the world with new music; that was over ten years ago, and I feel like he has no personal incentive, really, to go back and record more music. Which sucks for the few die-hard fans that are left, but he's probably aware that the general public doesn't seem to care much anymore about new GN'R music without the original lineup (which isn't a dig against the new guys, but that seems to be the general consensus outside the forums).

[Bruno P.]

If he likes creating art, he will. If the only thing he cares about is money, I'd recommend him a reunion.

[Estranged Reality]

If he likes creating art, he will. If the only thing he cares about is money, I'd recommend him a reunion.

I feel like he thinks a reunion isn't worth it? Maybe more money, but he's making money anyway. Probably more than enough to live comfortably. And in his current position, he calls all the shot. A full reunion with the original lineup would probably cost him much of his power, and I'm sure he's aware of that. Legalities would have to be re-sorted, and if the band dissolved again, unlike Slash, he doesn't have a solo career to fall back on.

As cynical a view as that may seem, it makes sense.

[useyorappetite]

maybe he knows he's not capable of recording something great. i love cd it has some great moments but if they had space for IRS and scraped after how many years dollars and great musicians ... idk. and pretty much all of the worst moments of cd are axl's fault. putting yourself under pressure you cant handle is not good for your creativity.

[jellyzero]

Axl already made three records. If I had to guess his goal during the early 2000s was to make 3 records and never go back into the studio again. The problem for us is that he refuses to release any more of the material.

[Estranged Reality]

If he were smart, he'd release those songs like Prince is releasing stuff from his vault right now. Get the die-hard fans to pay a dollar a track. We'd all pay for it. Release a new track every few weeks. Empty out his vault. Then, later down the road, release them on CD. It keeps piracy somewhat at bay, it's delivering new music straight to the people who really want to hear it and are willing to pay for it (the fans), and he has the option to put out a physical copy later if he wants to. Maybe like a full box set of ChiDem sessions and outtakes.

But that doesn't seem to be what he's interested in.

[the sorcerer]

I feel like Axl doesn't have much interest in new music. Put yourself in his shoes: he's making money touring with the new group, without releasing new material. Why put himself through another Chinese Democracy debacle? It probably disillusioned him very much, and the end result wasn't quite the epic payoff I imagine he was expecting or hoping for. I think at one point in time Axl was hungry to prove himself and separate himself from the old band, and that grand image in his mind included taking over the world with new music; that was over ten years ago, and I feel like he has no personal incentive, really, to go back and record more music. Which sucks for the few die-hard fans that are left, but he's probably aware that the general public doesn't seem to care much anymore about new GN'R music without the original lineup (which isn't a dig against the new guys, but that seems to be the general consensus outside the forums).

[Nosaj Thing]

I feel like Axl doesn't have much interest in new music. Put yourself in his shoes: he's making money touring with the new group, without releasing new material. Why put himself through another Chinese Democracy debacle? It probably disillusioned him very much, and the end result wasn't quite the epic payoff I imagine he was expecting or hoping for. I think at one point in time Axl was hungry to prove himself and separate himself from the old band, and that grand image in his mind included taking over the world with new music; that was over ten years ago, and I feel like he has no personal incentive, really, to go back and record more music. Which sucks for the few die-hard fans that are left, but he's probably aware that the general public doesn't seem to care much anymore about new GN'R music without the original lineup (which isn't a dig against the new guys, but that seems to be the general consensus outside the forums).

If he cares about his current musicians, he MUST release new songs with them in order to give them the opportunity to shine with their own material under the Gn'R name. I'm not a musician, but living off other people's material as the highlight of your career must suck, really hard.

[Estranged Reality]

I feel like Axl doesn't have much interest in new music. Put yourself in his shoes: he's making money touring with the new group, without releasing new material. Why put himself through another Chinese Democracy debacle? It probably disillusioned him very much, and the end result wasn't quite the epic payoff I imagine he was expecting or hoping for. I think at one point in time Axl was hungry to prove himself and separate himself from the old band, and that grand image in his mind included taking over the world with new music; that was over ten years ago, and I feel like he has no personal incentive, really, to go back and record more music. Which sucks for the few die-hard fans that are left, but he's probably aware that the general public doesn't seem to care much anymore about new GN'R music without the original lineup (which isn't a dig against the new guys, but that seems to be the general consensus outside the forums).

If he cares about his current musicians, he MUST release new songs with them in order to give them the opportunity to shine with their own material under the Gn'R name. I'm not a musician, but living off other people's material as the highlight of your career must suck, really hard.

I think it bothers Bumblefoot. I get the vibe that the others guys are just happy to be in a functioning, touring band and making money. They get to do what they love for a living, it supports them and their families. Guys like Tommy, who I really respect (also love the Replacements), just don't strike me as being real hungry to go in and record new music. They are older, middle-aged, and probably well used to being 'session players.' A guy like Fortus makes his living touring in bands (he wasn't an original member of Thin Lizzy either) - I feel like that's part of the reason they were chosen in the first place, because they're not a big name musician who's constantly expecting to be recording fresh content.

[TombRaider]

I wanna thank Estranged Reality for calling things what they are. Thank you very much.

[SoulMonster]

Axl already made three records. If I had to guess his goal during the early 2000s was to make 3 records and never go back into the studio again. The problem for us is that he refuses to release any more of the material.

No, those additional two records isn't finished. He NEEDS to go back into studio if he wants to finish them.

If he cares about his current musicians, he MUST release new songs with them in order to give them the opportunity to shine with their own material under the Gn'R name.

Many of them got the opportunity to shine through CD. People tend to spread the myth that people in the current lineup hasn't been part of any releases.

[izzydoezit]

I don't think BBF actually believes that if he had the chance to write with Axl , he could achieve anything remotely significant to the industry or casual fans.

[Guns n' Swedes]

I really hope that Axl also think that the album got overproduced. Too much noise in the songs. If they made another album like Lies I'm sure it would be awesome.

[Apollo]

1. "Chinese Democracy" Rose, Josh Freese 4:43 2. "Shackler's Revenge" Rose, Buckethead, Caram Costanzo, Bryan Mantia, Pete Scaturro 3:37 3. "Better" Rose, Robin Finck 4:58 4. "Street of Dreams" Rose, Tommy Stinson, Dizzy Reed 4:46 5. "If the World" Rose, Chris Pitman 4:54 6. "There Was a Time" Rose, Paul Tobias, Reed 6:41 7. "Catcher in the Rye" Rose, Tobias 5:53 8. "Scraped" Rose, Buckethead, Costanzo 3:30 9. "Riad N' the Bedouins" Rose, Stinson 4:10 10. "Sorry" Rose, Buckethead, Mantia, Scaturro 6:14 11. "I.R.S." Rose, Tobias, Reed 4:28 12. "Madagascar" Rose, Pitman 5:38 13. "This I Love" Rose 5:34 14. "Prostitute" Rose, Tobias 6:15

Tobias, Buckethead, Mantia, Constanzo, Scaturro...........but not seeing much Thal, Ashba and Ferrer on that list

[trqster]

I feel like Axl doesn't have much interest in new music. Put yourself in his shoes: he's making money touring with the new group, without releasing new material. Why put himself through another Chinese Democracy debacle? It probably disillusioned him very much, and the end result wasn't quite the epic payoff I imagine he was expecting or hoping for. I think at one point in time Axl was hungry to prove himself and separate himself from the old band, and that grand image in his mind included taking over the world with new music; that was over ten years ago, and I feel like he has no personal incentive, really, to go back and record more music. Which sucks for the few die-hard fans that are left, but he's probably aware that the general public doesn't seem to care much anymore about new GN'R music without the original lineup (which isn't a dig against the new guys, but that seems to be the general consensus outside the forums).

Great post - summed it all up.