Michael Jackson went 60 days without real sleep

[Iron MikeyJ]

I guess it comes down to personal taste, but imo history is only better than invinciable (blood on the dance floor isnt a true album imo). It's a good album, I would relate it more to cd than to use your illusions. Even though its a double album, half is greatest hits, so imo its not a true double album. If you put history and blood on the dance floor together, then maybe its uyi status.

I just cant see a reasonable argument for history being better than off the wall, thriller, bad or dangerous. top to bottom they are all better.

[Towelie]

Yes his vocal stylings were inspired by James Brown and yes he adapted his sound to suit current music trends. Doesn't mean everything he ever did was highly derivative. The significance of being the first black man to be played on MTV by embracing rock music was a huge feat, not only for MJ, but for pop culture in general. You didn't see Lionel Ritchie getting Eddie Van Halen to feature on his music. It may seem like a small thing now, but in 1982 it was a big fucking deal and it opened a lot of doors.

The significance of self-funding a multi-million dollar 12 minute music video for Thriller is something nobody else had done before, even his record label were against it, hence why the money came out of his pocket. It changed the music industry forever. You cannot deny that.

The bulk of HIStory's sale figures came after the massive success of Scream and You Are Not Alone (the two highest debuting singles in Billboard history) and Earth Song (the best selling single of his entire career). That is a fact. If anything, the Greatest Hits disc hindered the album sales, as the inclusion of a bonus disc drove the price up to a costly £25.

All of the above is true but its got nothing to do with the question you asked of me and the answer i gave, you're altering the terms of the discussion by saying 'everything he ever did wasn't derivative', i never said everything he ever did, i just said that he was for the reasons i outlined which you've agreed were accurate, that was the basis of my point.

Also, its not really a feat if you have to embrace rock music to get accepted, its a feat when you get it on your own terms, at least thats my thinking.

And there were many precursors to the 13 minute music video thing.

Your blatant dismissal of even his most celebrated and well documented achievements is proof to me that you are simply unwilling to recognise the vast impact Michael has had.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Well thats just you choosing to focus on certain aspects of my posts isn't it, i've variously called his legacy great and said that he defined certain genres or musical trends and all sorts so i've hardly been dismissive of his achievements, have i?

[bacardimayne]

The five new tracks released in 1997 on Blood On The Dancefloor were also top drawer stuff.

I liked the title track and Morphine, but the other three were pretty bad IIRC.

[dalsh327]

Yes his vocal stylings were inspired by James Brown and yes he adapted his sound to suit current music trends. Doesn't mean everything he ever did was highly derivative. The significance of being the first black man to be played on MTV by embracing rock music was a huge feat, not only for MJ, but for pop culture in general. You didn't see Lionel Ritchie getting Eddie Van Halen to feature on his music. It may seem like a small thing now, but in 1982 it was a big fucking deal and it opened a lot of doors.

The significance of self-funding a multi-million dollar 12 minute music video for Thriller is something nobody else had done before, even his record label were against it, hence why the money came out of his pocket. It changed the music industry forever. You cannot deny that.

The bulk of HIStory's sale figures came after the massive success of Scream and You Are Not Alone (the two highest debuting singles in Billboard history) and Earth Song (the best selling single of his entire career). That is a fact. If anything, the Greatest Hits disc hindered the album sales, as the inclusion of a bonus disc drove the price up to a costly £25.

Lionel Richie? His audience was a little older, he was mostly a ballads guy coming out of a funk/disco band. Clapton and Joe Walsh played on his albums. If Steve Lukather wasn't good friends with Eddie, the "Beat It" solo wouldn't have happened with EVH.

HIStory had huge promotion behind it, "Scream" itself was a huge deal at the time because it was Michael and Janet in "the most expensive video ever made". I think the sales would've been lower had they not included the hits disc, he was starting to slip in popularity because of the scandal, so they were going out of their way to try to fix his image at the time, even talking to Howard Stern about doing an interview during Super Bowl. Michael's people talked him out of it and he wound up doing the interview with Diane Sawyer a month after the album came out.

I have to wonder how much Slash made from his contributions, this was also around the time he and Axl were feuding.

Was it a good thing for Slash to have been involved with Michael? In hindsight, yeah, a guitarist should be able to do things outside of the band they're in. I doubt Axl was thrilled with it.

[Towelie]

Yes his vocal stylings were inspired by James Brown and yes he adapted his sound to suit current music trends. Doesn't mean everything he ever did was highly derivative. The significance of being the first black man to be played on MTV by embracing rock music was a huge feat, not only for MJ, but for pop culture in general. You didn't see Lionel Ritchie getting Eddie Van Halen to feature on his music. It may seem like a small thing now, but in 1982 it was a big fucking deal and it opened a lot of doors.

The significance of self-funding a multi-million dollar 12 minute music video for Thriller is something nobody else had done before, even his record label were against it, hence why the money came out of his pocket. It changed the music industry forever. You cannot deny that.

The bulk of HIStory's sale figures came after the massive success of Scream and You Are Not Alone (the two highest debuting singles in Billboard history) and Earth Song (the best selling single of his entire career). That is a fact. If anything, the Greatest Hits disc hindered the album sales, as the inclusion of a bonus disc drove the price up to a costly £25.

Lionel Richie? His audience was a little older, he was mostly a ballads guy coming out of a funk/disco band. Clapton and Joe Walsh played on his albums. If Steve Lukather wasn't good friends with Eddie, the "Beat It" solo wouldn't have happened with EVH.

HIStory had huge promotion behind it, "Scream" itself was a huge deal at the time because it was Michael and Janet in "the most expensive video ever made". I think the sales would've been lower had they not included the hits disc, he was starting to slip in popularity because of the scandal, so they were going out of their way to try to fix his image at the time, even talking to Howard Stern about doing an interview during Super Bowl. Michael's people talked him out of it and he wound up doing the interview with Diane Sawyer a month after the album came out.

I have to wonder how much Slash made from his contributions, this was also around the time he and Axl were feuding.

Was it a good thing for Slash to have been involved with Michael? In hindsight, yeah, a guitarist should be able to do things outside of the band they're in. I doubt Axl was thrilled with it.

It certainly raised Slash's profile, particularly at that stage when he wasn't exactly doing much else in the public consciousness.

For a tonne of people in the 90's Slash was known as that Michael Jackson guitarist, like Jennifer Batten was in 80's.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Towelie

[volcano62]

IMO the only MJ album that sucks is the one that was released when he died.

Lots of rumors about that album....Sony are not to be trusted.

[Towelie]

^^ The Cascio tracks were indeed a disgrace. I still can't believe that a music giant such as Sony would try and pass off a vocal imitator as the real deal on an official release. Before I heard those songs with my own ears I didn't believe it, it sounded farcical and like crazy fan conspiracies.

Hollywood Tonight and Behind The Mask were the only good songs to emerge from that horrid mess of an album.

[Iron MikeyJ]

honestly i never even bothered with his after death album. Is it really that bad?

[Towelie]

Well three tracks were recorded by a vocal imitator pretending to be MJ. 50 Cent even features on one of them, presumably unaware that he's being duped and that it isn't really MJ singing.

Sony and MJ's estate claimed they had the tracks tested by a "audio forensic experts", but the three tracks in question all come from the same source, same amateur songwriters, same producers and they all sound fake as fuck. It was a big clusterfuck and pissed off a lot of fans at the time.

[Iron MikeyJ]

was mj even working on new music before his death?

[Towelie]

^^ If he was, it didn't appear on that album. Apparently he did some tracks with (vomit) will.i.am (vomit), but Will says he respects MJ too much to release the tracks. Personally I think Will is lying about the extent of their studio work, hence why no material has surfaced.

Even the genuine MJ-vocals on his posthumous album mostly come from Invincible outtakes or even older (one track called Behind The Mask, was a Thriller outtake).

[dalsh327]

was mj even working on new music before his death?

Mostly demos, they were doing some stuff in the studio for the live show.

Most of the unreleased stuff Michael wanted out was on the Thriller re-release and the Ultimate Collection. Bad25 was posthumous, but I don't see why Michael wouldn't have approved it.

As far as will goes, McCartney and Michael did about 3 songs, Freddie Mercury and Michael did about 3 or 4, so it's probably about that many they collaborated on.

Funny thought, other than Slash, I wonder if anyone from nuGuns would have worked with Michael.

[Towelie]

^^ Orianthi was pretty bad-ass. MJ was always pretty good at sniffing out a first class lead guitarist for his live shows...

[DieselDaisy]

I am not so sure that those three tracks are fakes. Jackson's voice is frequently synthed up and has FX on it on the albums release when he was alive. It is not implausible that this happened here.

The album is, decent. There was a heap load of material filed away in the vaults from Invincible period and later. I heard that the MJ Estate were going to split it up over five records rather than put the best tracks on one or maybe two albums. That is what happened to Hendrix when he died.

[dalsh327]

I am not so sure that those three tracks are fakes. Jackson's voice is frequently synthed up and has FX on it on the albums release when he was alive. It is not implausible that this happened here.

The album is, decent. There was a heap load of material filed away in the vaults from Invincible period and later. I heard that the MJ Estate were going to split it up over five records rather than put the best tracks on one or maybe two albums. That is what happened to Hendrix when he died.

I think the backlash from "Michael" put the newer stuff coming out to a halt.

They're finally getting this out, but it looks like they're making you order it directly through the website. This was the version Spike Lee showed in theaters, the one on TV was edited down.

http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/store/bad-25th-anniversary/bad-25-documentary?utm_medium=post&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=bad25dvd&utm_campaign=bad25%20dvd%20announcement&cid=lg:11ty

[DieselDaisy]

Apparently Taylor and May entered the studio about a year or two ago and laid tracks down on the Mercury/Jackson demos ('There Must Be More to Life Than This', 'State of Shock' and Victory). My theory is, that these would be released on future Jackson albums as 'Jackson with Queen'.

I was wrong above. It is ten albums!! There is heaps of stuff in the vaults. Why didn't Sony aim to deliver a great single album? Sure, stick all of the slightly shitty stuff on a 'fans only' expensive boxset but maximise the best tracks for one great last album? It would have been a fitting tribute. Arseholes.

[TombRaider]

so... was MJ really a child molester?

[Towelie]

I am not so sure that those three tracks are fakes. Jackson's voice is frequently synthed up and has FX on it on the albums release when he was alive. It is not implausible that this happened here.

The album is, decent. There was a heap load of material filed away in the vaults from Invincible period and later. I heard that the MJ Estate were going to split it up over five records rather than put the best tracks on one or maybe two albums. That is what happened to Hendrix when he died.

Breaking News, Monster and Keep Your Head Up are FAKE. 100%. They are sung by a MJ-soundalike called Jason Malachi. Do some research, go onto Youtube, there's some really good vocal comparison analysis videos. It will leave you with no doubt whatsoever that Jason Malachi is the singer on those Cascio tracks.

[bacardimayne]

I was a Jason Malachi fan before MJ died. That's definitely him on the Michael album. That being said, I absolutely love Breaking News.

[Towelie]

Hollywood Tonight, Behind The Mask, Hold My Hand, Much Too Soon, Another Day, I Like The Way You Love Me and Best of Joy = Genuine MJ vocals

Breaking News, Monster, KYHU = Jason Malachi

[dalsh327]

Apparently Taylor and May entered the studio about a year or two ago and laid tracks down on the Mercury/Jackson demos ('There Must Be More to Life Than This', 'State of Shock' and Victory). My theory is, that these would be released on future Jackson albums as 'Jackson with Queen'.

I was wrong above. It is ten albums!! There is heaps of stuff in the vaults. Why didn't Sony aim to deliver a great single album? Sure, stick all of the slightly shitty stuff on a 'fans only' expensive boxset but maximise the best tracks for one great last album? It would have been a fitting tribute. Arseholes.

I could see that being a digital EP release, or being part of a box set. I forget the story on the songs Michael gave them for the "Victory" album, if they were "Thriller" outtakes or new songs. I remember hearing about a lot of problems of "Victory" coming together in the studio. Wiki said the original "Liberian Girl" was going to be on there and something called "Buffalo Bill".

I don't know what kind of footage exists from the Victory tour, I'm kind of surprised a live album or video of the concert was never released. In hindsight, Michael shouldn't have been talked into doing a Jacksons tour and done a Thriller tour after the Grammy win. Sounds like family pressure won out. They should have reunited after the Dangerous tour to do a 25th anniversary tour.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I don't know what kind of footage exists from the Victory tour, I'm kind of surprised a live album or video of the concert was never released. In hindsight, Michael shouldn't have been talked into doing a Jacksons tour and done a Thriller tour after the Grammy win. Sounds like family pressure won out. They should have reunited after the Dangerous tour to do a 25th anniversary tour.

I dont know if you know this or not but mj was pretty much done with "the group" by the mid 70's or so. It was family pressure that kept him in it for so long. I like the destiney album (imo its a good fairwell album for the jacksons), but I dont know how MJ could really go back to the group after off the wall and thriller, thats why I have never really liked the victory album.

After MJ's death Jermaine kept trying to push for a jacksons reunion. I know he had good intentions and all, but i remember someone telling him you cant do it without MJ. He told him that "the jackson 5 never would of existed without Michael, so what makes you think you can sell people on an old MJ less jacksons now?" I did feel bad for them though, they were working hard.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Mike420

[dalsh327]

I don't know what kind of footage exists from the Victory tour, I'm kind of surprised a live album or video of the concert was never released. In hindsight, Michael shouldn't have been talked into doing a Jacksons tour and done a Thriller tour after the Grammy win. Sounds like family pressure won out. They should have reunited after the Dangerous tour to do a 25th anniversary tour.

I dont know if you know this or not but mj was pretty much done with "the group" by the mid 70's or so. It was family pressure that kept him in it for so long. I like the destiney album (imo its a good fairwell album for the jacksons), but I dont know how MJ could really go back to the group after off the wall and thriller, thats why I have never really liked the victory album.

After MJ's death Jermaine kept trying to push for a jacksons reunion. I know he had good intentions and all, but i remember someone telling him you cant do it without MJ. He told him that "the jackson 5 never would of existed without Michael, so what makes you think you can sell people on an old MJ less jacksons now?" I did feel bad for them though, they were working hard.

It came across that Michael was ready to leave later than that - he and his brothers went to Epic because Motown was being too controlling and not letting them develop, which was nothing new. I think Destiny and Triumph doing well, and Off The Wall coming out in the middle, was where Michael was ready to start breaking from the group. It just doesn't make sense after how Thriller did, after all the album sales and awards, to follow that up with another solo album. I mean, Justin Timberlake's first solo album did really well, the last thing in the world he wanted to do was another N'Sync album.

In Beyonce's case, she always seems to have 2 other girls dancing with her. No one really cares if it's called Destiny's Child or Beyonce when they're going to see her perform, but it's kind of funny that she always seems to have 2 other girls in most of her videos. It's pretty much how I feel whenever Ashba has his hat on during a GNR show...what's the point, get Slash back if Axl wants a guitarist with a hat on.

I still think the Victory tour should be released on DVD because the performances were good, but I look back on it and wonder why Michael even bothered doing it.

I think once this Conrad Murray & AEG mess is resolved, they'll start working on more of the unreleased stuff from the Motown and Sony vaults, but they really need someone handling the music end of it that everyone can agree on, the way the Hendrix estate has handled Jimi's unreleased music.

The estate is getting a ton of cash in from the Cirque's "Immortal" and "One" shows, so they're keeping the good memories of Jackson alive, even if the trial is dredging up the bad ones.

[DieselDaisy]

The authenticity of "Breaking News", "Keep Your Head Up", and "Monster", colloquially known as the Cascio tracks, has been an ongoing controversy among fans of Jackson. The three tracks, along with nine other unreleased songs, are attributed to Jackson, Eddie Cascio and James Porte and were recorded in the Cascios' basement in 2007.^[39][40] Doubts over whether the vocals were actually by Jackson have been raised, reportedly by Katherine Jackson and Jackson's two eldest children Prince and Paris,^[41] as well as Jackson's sister La Toya,^[42] his nephews T.J., Taj, and Taryll,^[43]will.i.am,^[44] and many of his fans.^[45] His brother Randy Jackson posted a series of messages about the album on his Twitter account stating that family members were not allowed at his studio where the album was being completed.^[46] According to Randy, when engineer Teddy Riley played him some of the tracks, "I immediately said it wasn't his voice".^[46] In a statement before the premiere of "Breaking News," Sony Music Group countered that it had "complete confidence in the results of our extensive research, as well as the accounts of those who were in the studio with Michael, that the vocals on the new album are his own".^[47] Producer Teddy Riley, Frank Dileo and Jackson's estate have since defended Sony's claims that the song is authentic.^[48] On December 6, 2010, the Cascio family appeared on Oprah, where Eddie Cascio insisted the songs were sung by Jackson, and showed the studio where he had recorded the songs. Teddy Riley, who had worked on two of the Cascio tracks, "Monster" and "Breaking News", said that he had to do "more processing to the voice, which is why people were asking about the authenticity of his voice".^[49] Riley also said that "With the Melodyne we actually move the stuff up which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still hearing the true Michael Jackson".^[49]

Many of the fans who have questioned the authenticity of the Cascio tracks have suggested that Jason Malachi, an Italian-American R&B singer based in Maryland, is the possible vocalist on the Cascio tracks. However, the Jackson Estate has said that he was not involved in the recording of the Cascio tracks.^[48] On January 16, 2011 a statement appeared on Malachi's Facebook page noting he was the vocalist of the songs in question, calling it his "confession".^[50] He later said on MySpace that his Facebook and official website were hacked. Malachi's manager Thad Nauden later that day told TMZ saying that "someone created a phony Facebook page in Jason's name. Jason wants everyone to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, he did not sing a single note on the album

Wki

I am still not convinced either way.