Spain goes back to 30 years ago with the new Abortion law.

[Rustycage]

You do realize that your numbers there are in favor of abortion over the risk of childbirth, right? Mid to late term abortions aren't even the point, though.

To use your own hypothetical; If your doctor told you that removing a cyst on the base of your brain stem gave you a better chance of survival than leaving it in, are you going to sit there and claim it's a coin flip?

If the risk is 15 out of 100,000 that I would die by leaving the coin in so that it would develop into living being one day....of course I would leave it in....especially since I still had as high a a 1 in 8000 chance of dying if I took it out.

1 in 8000 in a MID TERM abortion. Which is still better than 15 out of 100k.

Why haven't you included the rates of proper early trimester abortions? Are you omitting it because you feel it isn't "relevant to this discussion?"

[Ace Nova]

You do realize that your numbers there are in favor of abortion over the risk of childbirth, right? Mid to late term abortions aren't even the point, though.

To use your own hypothetical; If your doctor told you that removing a cyst on the base of your brain stem gave you a better chance of survival than leaving it in, are you going to sit there and claim it's a coin flip?

If the risk is 15 out of 100,000 that I would die by leaving the coin in so that it would develop into living being one day....of course I would leave it in....especially since I still had as high a a 1 in 8000 chance of dying if I took it out.

1 in 8000 in a MID TERM abortion. Which is still better than 15 out of 100k.

Why haven't you included the rates of proper early trimester abortions? Are you omitting it because you feel it isn't "relevant to this discussion?"

I already posted them...what are you talking about?

I said, "as high as".

I'm glad my mother wasn't scared of her 15 out of 100,000 chance of dying for having me. God Bless her.

[Angelica]

Sure they do...if you state the risk factors of both.

Absolutely true, both options have significant potential health risks. Which is why the woman involved is the only one qualified to decide how to proceed.

[Ace Nova]

Sure they do...if you state the risk factors of both.

Absolutely true, both options have significant potential health risks. Which is why the woman involved is the only one qualified to decide how to proceed.

Thank you...I never stated otherwise...at least you see the logic in it....Rusty here has been debating me about this for 3 pages ad nauseaum.

[Rustycage]

You do realize that your numbers there are in favor of abortion over the risk of childbirth, right? Mid to late term abortions aren't even the point, though.

To use your own hypothetical; If your doctor told you that removing a cyst on the base of your brain stem gave you a better chance of survival than leaving it in, are you going to sit there and claim it's a coin flip?

If the risk is 15 out of 100,000 that I would die by leaving the coin in so that it would develop into living being one day....of course I would leave it in....especially since I still had as high a a 1 in 8000 chance of dying if I took it out.

1 in 8000 in a MID TERM abortion. Which is still better than 15 out of 100k.

Why haven't you included the rates of proper early trimester abortions? Are you omitting it because you feel it isn't "relevant to this discussion?"

I already posted them...what are you talking about?

I said, "as high as".

I'm glad my mother wasn't scared of her 15 out of 100,000 chance of dying for having me. God Bless her.

Where did you post early trimester abortion death rate? I see midterm and late term in your post.

Sure they do...if you state the risk factors of both.

Absolutely true, both options have significant potential health risks. Which is why the woman involved is the only one qualified to decide how to proceed.

Thank you...I never stated otherwise...at least you see the logic in it....Rusty here has been debating me about this for 3 pages ad nauseaum.

I think you don't make any fucking sense to be honest. No offense but you seem to be mumbling whatever you can think of from inside your own anus.

Plus I said the same thing she did. Several times.

[Angelica]

You do realize that your numbers there are in favor of abortion over the risk of childbirth, right? Mid to late term abortions aren't even the point, though.

To use your own hypothetical; If your doctor told you that removing a cyst on the base of your brain stem gave you a better chance of survival than leaving it in, are you going to sit there and claim it's a coin flip?

If the risk is 15 out of 100,000 that I would die by leaving the coin in so that it would develop into living being one day....of course I would leave it in....especially since I still had as high a a 1 in 8000 chance of dying if I took it out.

1 in 8000 in a MID TERM abortion. Which is still better than 15 out of 100k.

Why haven't you included the rates of proper early trimester abortions? Are you omitting it because you feel it isn't "relevant to this discussion?"

I already posted them...what are you talking about?

I said, "as high as".

I'm glad my mother wasn't scared of her 15 out of 100,000 chance of dying for having me. God Bless her.

That's a tad facetious, isn't it? No one's suggesting talking a woman who wants a child out of having one. We're essentially talking about whether anyone has the right to force a woman who doesn't want the child, to bring it to term regardless. I brought up the pregnancy risk stuff because I'm tired of seeing people in these arguments fob it off like it's a goddamn head cold, or something. It's a major physical event for the woman involved, even if it goes smoothly.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Angelica

[Ace Nova]

Question :

(especially for Kasanova King and Shades)

"If abortion is made illegal, what should be the penalty for women who get illegal abortions?"

1) jailtime - specify amount of time and crime (murder?)

2) fine

3) sterilization

4) two of the above

5) none of the above

6) other

That's that's gotta be the most "baited" question I've seen around here in months.

Should they be made completely illegal? Probably not. Like others have said, if a woman really wants one....she'll find a way to get one done. So making them completely illegal doesn't make much sense to me.

[Ace Nova]

That's a tad facetious, isn't it? No one's suggesting talking a woman who wants a child out of having one. We're essentially talking about whether anyone has the right to force a woman who doesn't want the child, to bring it to term regardless. I brought up the pregnancy risk stuff because I'm tired of seeing people in these arguments fob it off like it's a goddamn head cold, or something. It's a major physical event for the woman involved, even if it goes smoothly.

Exactly.

That's the point I was trying to make. Your initial statement "seemed" to lean that way....but you have clarified your stance and brought a "balanced" view....that's all I was seeking. I've been trying to explain that to Rusty but we're just not on the same page.

I wasn't even really talking about pro choice or pro life....really.

And I certainly wouldn't equate to pregnancy as a "head cold". I've been through a pregnancy and seen my ex carry our baby to term. Although I couldn't "physically" feel her different emotional states, pains, etc. during her pregnancy....she sure as hell made me know about them.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kasanova King

[Rustycage]

What is your position?

You've hinted at abstinence with the HIV bit for a bit and morphed into saying that the maternal death risk doesn't matter.

[ohlovelyrita]

Question :

(especially for Kasanova King and Shades)

"If abortion is made illegal, what should be the penalty for women who get illegal abortions?"

1) jailtime - specify amount of time and crime (murder?)

2) fine

3) sterilization

4) two of the above

5) none of the above

6) other

That's that's gotta be the most "baited" question I've seen around here in months.

Should they be made completely illegal? Probably not. Like others have said, if a woman really wants one....she'll find a way to get one done. So making them completely illegal doesn't make much sense to me.

Didn't you already say you'd vote again a woman's right to choose?

Where have you left her but to commit an illegal act?

That's a logical conclusion that a crime would be committed.

So how would you prosecute it?

Now THIS is a baited question:

You enter a burning building you only have time to grab either

1) ten embryos

2) one 7 year old

Which do you save?

Now tell me if there are 10 babies and 1 seven year old?!!!!

(I found that question on-line and there are more if you like)

Edited December 31, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Ace Nova]

What is your position?

You've hinted at abstinence with the HIV bit for a bit and morphed into saying that the maternal death risk doesn't matter.

Personally I'm pro life. But legally speaking, I don't think making abortions illegal is the solution.

[Rustycage]

What is your position?

You've hinted at abstinence with the HIV bit for a bit and morphed into saying that the maternal death risk doesn't matter.

Personally I'm pro life. But legally speaking, I don't think making abortions illegal is the solution.

So you want to swim but don't want to get wet. How could that be confusing for anyone?[/sarcasm]

[Ace Nova]

Question :

(especially for Kasanova King and Shades)

"If abortion is made illegal, what should be the penalty for women who get illegal abortions?"

1) jailtime - specify amount of time and crime (murder?)

2) fine

3) sterilization

4) two of the above

5) none of the above

6) other

That's that's gotta be the most "baited" question I've seen around here in months.

Should they be made completely illegal? Probably not. Like others have said, if a woman really wants one....she'll find a way to get one done. So making them completely illegal doesn't make much sense to me.

Didn't you already say you'd vote again a woman's right to choose?

Where have you left her but to commit an illegal act?

That's a logical conclusion that a crime would be committed.

So how would you prosecute it?

Now THIS is a baited question:

You enter a burning building you only have time to grab either

1) ten embryos

2) one 7 year old

Which do you save?

Now tell me if there are 10 babies and 1 seven year old?!!!!

(I found that question on-line and there are more if you like)

Actually, I never stated I would vote to make abortions illegal. I stated that I was personally pro life and I didn't think women should use abortions as a form of birth control. Making abortion illegal isn't the solution, imo.

[ohlovelyrita]

Good point Arnold--- stay in the future lives of the life the pro-lifers are advocating for.

Okay Kasanova-- you didn't answer about how he'd vote. That is why religious people worry me.

At least, you sound sane overall! Hope so, for your boy!

What? I outlined for you what I would tolerate.

Use the word "vote" which is an action not just an opinion --unless you don't want to say.

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

Kasanova -You're a nice guy but religion has bought your mind. I hope you get the pay-off that you think was

promised to you.

[Ace Nova]

So you want to swim but don't want to get wet. How could that be confusing for anyone?[/sarcasm]

I think a lot of people feel the same way I do. I think if there should be better education programs out there - better sex ed programs, better support programs for women, etc....maybe some restrictions on abortions....but the restrictions I would be in favor of would be more along the lines of mandatory counseling and no late term abortions....maybe less women would use it as a form of birth control?

[Rustycage]

Flip flop.

So you want to swim but don't want to get wet. How could that be confusing for anyone?[/sarcasm]

I think a lot of people feel the same way I do. I think if there should be better education programs out there - better sex ed programs, better support programs for women, etc....maybe some restrictions on abortions....but the restrictions I would be in favor of would be more along the lines of mandatory counseling and no late term abortions....maybe less women would use it as a form of birth control?

You are suggesting things that the typical pro-lifer does not support because of their economic politics. A lot of pro-lifers come from that side of the political spectrum that do not support spending on those services.(not all but a lot)

And more regulations? Funny how big government is evil until it's used to serve our interests.

[ohlovelyrita]

Rustycage- He is a nice person but he would betray half the population for his religion!

Now why is his religion dominate in the U.S.? Again, Might makes right!

Kasanova-

What is the percentage of people who consciously use abortion as birth control?

What is the percentage of people who unconsciously use abortion as birth control?

This is just a smokescreen. If you want to save lives, take a CPR class and feed

George Bush Jr. a pretzel while he laughs at a Gomer Pyle rerun.

Edited December 31, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Ace Nova]

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

Kasanova -You're a nice guy but religion has bought your mind. I hope you get the pay-off that you think was

promised to you.

Did you miss the other ten times where I stated that if it was "under my house" I would be pro life....and that on a global level, who am I to say what a woman can do?

It's funny you keep on harping on religion but did you ever stop to think that maybe personal experiences had more to do with my opinions on abortion that religion? Because they do.

My religion actually teaches me that people have free will to choose between right and wrong....so if I just went by my religion, I would say the decision would be the woman's.....just like God gave Adam and Eve free will to eat the forbidden fruit.

Flip flop.

You are suggesting things that the typical pro-lifer does not support because of their economic politics. A lot of pro-lifers come from that side of the political spectrum that do not support spending on those services.(not all but a lot)

And more regulations? Funny how big government is evil until it's used to serve our interests.

I'm not a typical pro lifer...never said I was. And no, I didn't flip flop....that quote was surrounded by quotes of me saying that I was "personally" pro life....under my roof so to speak....it had nothing to do with it on a national or global level.

Again, you must have me confused with the right.....I'm in favor of government regulation in many areas.

[ohlovelyrita]

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

Kasanova -You're a nice guy but religion has bought your mind. I hope you get the pay-off that you think was

promised to you.

Did you miss the other ten times where I stated that if it was "under my house" I would be pro life....and that on a global level, who am I to say what a woman can do?

It's funny you keep on harping on religion but did you ever stop to think that maybe personal experiences had more to do with my opinions on abortion that religion? Because they do.

My religion actually teaches me that people have free will to choose between right and wrong....so if I just went by my religion, I would say the decision would be the woman's.....just like God gave Adam and Eve free will to eat the forbidden fruit.

Just don't vote on that issue, you can't trust yourself!!

You know what religious people value more than religion? Money!

Did you see where I posted here how the Hindus in India who

are against abortion will BYPASS their beliefs to abort a female

in favor of having a boy the next go?

Bonus bait for you:

Were Adam and Eve real people?

[Ace Nova]

Rustycage- He is a nice person but he would betray half the population for his religion!

Now why is his religion dominate in the U.S.? Again, Might makes right!

Kasanova-

What is the percentage of people who consciously use abortion as birth control?

What is the percentage of people who unconsciously use abortion as birth control?

This is just a smokescreen. If you want to save lives, take a CPR class and feed

George Bush Jr. a pretzel while he laughs at a Gomer Pyle rerun.

Actually, my religion isn't dominant in the U.S....again, you're wrong. Rita, the reason members here ridicule you at times is because of nonsensical statements such as these...."betray half my country"....

Seriously?

And why are you typing in colors?

[Rustycage]

I'm not a typical pro lifer...never said I was. And no, I didn't flip flop....that quote was surrounded by quotes of me saying that I was "personally" pro life....under my roof so to speak....it had nothing to do with it on a national or global level.

Again, you must have me confused with the right.....I'm in favor of government regulation in many areas.

Your quote said that if it came to a vote that you WOULD vote pro-life. That doesn't match up to what you were claiming today with whether you felt it should be a legal issue. Looks like a flip flop.

I wasn't saying you were the right that is fearful of big government. This just is a reminder of how a lot of those that scream less government totally act differently when they can manipulate big government to serve their interests.

[Ace Nova]

Just don't vote on that issue, you can't trust yourself!!

You know what religious people value more than religion? Money!

Did you see where I posted here how the Hindus in India who

are against abortion will BYPASS their beliefs to abort a female

in favor of having a boy the next go?

Bonus bait for you:

Were Adam and Eve real people?

Who's voting on anything? Are you under the disillusionment that this issue is up to vote somehow?

Again, for someone who wants to fight for people's rights...you certainly show serious signs of bigotry and prejudice with statements such as, "You know what religious people value more than religion? Money!"

So you want to fight for people's rights....but only if they fit a certain type of mold. Hitler anyone?

[ohlovelyrita]

KK- What are you a Mormon? That wasn't a typo either.

I have nothing against religious people as long as their religion is a hobby and not political bullets.

Hitler, anyone?

Anyways, you got moved to anger too easily. Maybe it's your bedtime. Still there?

[Ace Nova]

Your quote said that if it came to a vote that you WOULD vote pro-life. That doesn't match up to what you were claiming today with whether you felt it should be a legal issue. Looks like a flip flop.

I wasn't saying you were the right that is fearful of big government. This just is a reminder of how a lot of those that scream less government totally act differently when they can manipulate big government to serve their interests.

Yes, I know....if you singled out that quote, it would look that way....but if you read the previous 10 quotes and the 10 quotes after, my stance would be clear. I was responding to a bunch of other quotes in various threads and watching the Eagles game last night when I posted that...heavily distracted.

I don't disagree with what you're saying...a lot of those that scream less government only want big government when it's in their interest.

KK- What are you a Mormon? That wasn't a typo either.

I have nothing against religious people as long as their religion is a hobby and not political bullets.

Hitler, anyone?

Anyways, you got moved to anger too easily. Maybe it's your bedtime. Still there?

No, not a Mormon....not sure where you would get that from.

My religion teaches me separation of church and state...."Give onto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"....so nope, usually don't bring my religion into politics.

The mere fact that you blame religion when others have different views than yourself is quite intriguing. Do you hate religion and God that much that you will always pin both as your enemy when in reality, neither is?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kasanova King

[ohlovelyrita]

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