Spain goes back to 30 years ago with the new Abortion law.

[November_rain]

Up to now we were considered to be among the most liberal countries with regards to abortion since the former Spanish government (left wing) allowed free abortion. Now, with the current government (right wing)they are restricting citizen´s rights and among those restrictions they have planned a new law related to abortion in which we go back to 30 years ago where women weren´t free to chose and were forced to travel abroad if they wanted to have an abortion or they risked their lives by doing it undercover.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/12/20/inenglish/1387553017_431286.html

Government approves most restrictive abortion laws since return of democracy.

As was expected, the Cabinet on Friday approved a series of controversial modifications to Spain’s current abortion law, which was passed by the Socialists in 2010 and was the subject of harsh criticism from the conservative Popular Party (PP) when it was in the opposition.

Speaking at a press conference after the weekly Cabinet meeting, Justice Minister Alberto Ruiz-Gallardón announced the changes to the current statute, which return to the requirements outlined in a 1985 law, and will only allow abortions under two conditions: if the baby presents a risk to the health of the mother, or if the pregnancy was the result of rape.

The new legislation eliminates the possibility of a woman aborting if deformations of the fetus are detected.

“The stage system will no longer be in effect,” the minister said in reference to the current law, which, among other things, allows women to abort up to their 14^th week of pregnancy on demand.

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“The woman can only abort if she is in danger, and if it is due to a sexual assault,” Gallardón said. “There must be a prior crime complaint and it can only take place during first 12 weeks.”

Ruiz-Gallardón also added that women’s rights have to “go hand-in-hand with legal procedure.”

Socialist leader Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba said that the PP is using the abortion bill for “electoral purposes” as the European parliamentary race approaches. He also accused the PP government of curtailing women’s rights.

“The worst thing is that there are 100,000 women who abort annually. What is going to happen to them?” Rubalcaba asked.

The 1985 law, which was reached through consensus between the political parties when abortion was legalized, had been on the books under both PP and Socialist governments, but the Socialist administration of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero decided to break the pact by relaxing the requirements for the procedure, Ruiz-Gallardón explained.

“The bill restores the balance that the Constitutional Court set in 1985,” he said.

The changes will now go to Congress where they will be debated at the beginning of next year.

10 key points of the new law

• The new law brings to an end the right to have an abortion.
• Abortions will now only be permitted in two circumstances.
• These are, rape, and risk to the mother.
• The risk must involve “lasting harm” to the mother’s health.
• Fetal deformation will no longer be allowed as a reason to request an abortion.
• Fetal deformation will only be a valid reason if it is “incompatible with life” of the baby.
• A woman requesting an abortion will need the approval of two doctors outside the clinic treating her.
• All doctors will be able to refuse to perform abortions.
• Under-18s will need to be accompanied by their parents, and have their permission, before an abortion can be performed.

Edited December 29, 2013 by November_rain

[Guest Len B'stard]

I've never been able to settle, personally, on a position with abortion, a personal one i mean, if the decision were up to me…i think I almost cop out with saying it should be the womans choice because it's a choice that i don't think i could make. Basically I couldn't okay it myself, I just couldn't. So yeah, womans choice, definitely, her body and that, and without sounding out of order, i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience.

Edited December 27, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Gracii Guns]

This just seems to be a massive set up for illegal and unsafe abortions, which I can guarantee will cause more deaths . (And yes, my beliefs on abortion are very Catholic).

[Guest Len B'stard]

Bottle of gin, hot bath and a coat hanger, dead cheap i'd've thought

Sorry, Dazey told me to put that!

[Dazey]

I think abortion is horrible but it's the lesser of many evils as I see it.

Edit: Fuck off Marigold, I was trying to be all serious there for a second.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Dazey

[November_rain]

I can´t believe that in 2013 ( almost 2014) my country is going back in time and the debate is again taking place. IMO, I think I would have the baby but I support the right to choose. I think that a woman in that position suffers and it´s not an easy decision when they have to choose whether they want to have the baby or not.

But what makes it more ridiculous is the government´s hypocrisy. They want women to have disabled kids yet they have cut drastically all the financial help disabled people received. They don´t care of disabled kids, they don´t care of their therapies, wheel chairs, expensive medical treatments...etc.

[Guest Len B'stard]

This is what happens when you vote for Nazi's my dear. In all fairness, i have zero awareness of the current junta in dear ol' ESS-PAN-YERRR, i just read the words 'right-wing' up there and made the rest up.

[Ace Nova]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

[Facekicker]

I'd rather let the woman in question make that decision. Choices have consequences, it is their call, not some government or religious do-gooder.

[DangerousCurves]

I am a mother. I would love to have more children. I am fortunate enough to have a great husband, a safe home, and a little money in the bank. I understand that not everyone is as fortunate as I am. I am a firm believer in not judging the decisions of others. I don't know their circumstances, their home life, their background. I believe abortion is a difficult decision for 95% of women who choose to have one. "If you cannot trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?" sums it up pretty well, I think. Quality of life should be far more important than quantity.

[Coma16]

Rather than abort why not give the baby up for adoption?

[Dazey]

Rather than abort why not give the baby up for adoption?

Because the emotional impact alone among many other things is immeasurably greater when carrying a pregnancy full term, giving birth and handing the baby over than it is to spend an afternoon in a clinic getting a small collection of cells removed.

What the fuck is happening in Europe??? Every country is taking turns to the right and it's really concerning. Not even funny.

I think that in hard economic times a lot of people tend to favour a more conservative government as a safe pair of hands. That and whoever has been in power as the economies fell to shit is feeling the backlash of public opinion.

[Dazey]

What the fuck is happening in Europe??? Every country is taking turns to the right and it's really concerning. Not even funny.

I think that in hard economic times a lot of people tend to favour a more conservative government as a safe pair of hands. That and whoever has been in power as the economies fell to shit is feeling the backlash of public opinion.

I understand the way people want to secure their own backs rather than collectively take care of everyone when times get rough but I'm talking more about the radical right.. Tightened surveillance, people losing their privacy, even the rise of neonazis.. It saddens me to say but it looks like there will be right wing dictatorships rising in Europe. Maybe the space given by the a backlash from moderate left wing policies seemingly having failed people as you said.

I just wish people would have learned by now, I wish they have.

Go far left or far right, uptight, and it's all the same shite..

I think you're seeing a lot of governments getting the blame for a lot of things that were beyond their control (as well as many things that weren't) and soon you'll see another change to the left I would imagine. Thing is that some of the more right leaning parties are implementing (some) necessary austerity measures to clean up the messes they were left with and as a result are becoming even more unpopular than the administrations that they replaced. I always said (in the UK at least) that the winner of the most recent election would be inheriting a poisoned chalice as many of the policies they would be forced to implement would make them unelectable for a generation thereafter. Going by current polling data this certainly appears to be the case. As for an increase in the level of social conservatism, well that just seems to go hand in hand.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Dazey

[Guest Len B'stard]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

I wish i had meant that, in fact now i think about it I mean that too but at that particular type I wasn't talking about the psychological ramifications in a woman, I meant the psychological ramifications on me having got the woman to do it. But it works both ways I suppose, the entire enterprise is just way too much for me. I'm so glad i dont ever have to make a desicion like that, i think a part of me would never recover from it.

Honestly, were she alright with the giving birth bit i'd just say look have him and give him to me. Or her.

Edited December 28, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think you're seeing a lot of governments getting the blame for a lot of things that were beyond their control (as well as many things that were) and soon you'll see another change to the left I would imagine. Thing is that some of the more right leaning parties are implementing (some) necessary austerity measures to clean up the messes they were left with and as a result are becoming even more unpopular than the administrations that they replaced. I always said (in the UK at least) that the winner of the most recent election would be inheriting a poisoned chalice as many of the policies they would be forced to implement would make them unelectable for a generation thereafter. Going by current polling data this certainly appears to be the case. As for an increase in the level of social conservatism, well that just seems to go hand in hand.

Poisoned chalice my fuckin' arse, they just dunno what they're fuckin' doing Thing is about a government or administration is it's easy sailing the ship through crap times, you can't campaign to get elected in times of austerity, make promises about doing this and this and this and this and then not see it through and then scream 'poisoned chalice' when you don't, you knew it was like that, its the measure of the effectiveness or your policies how well you help the country cope and rise up out of it, leaders have to lead, in good times, bad times, times of war etc etc all of that bollocks.

[Dazey]

I think you're seeing a lot of governments getting the blame for a lot of things that were beyond their control (as well as many things that were) and soon you'll see another change to the left I would imagine. Thing is that some of the more right leaning parties are implementing (some) necessary austerity measures to clean up the messes they were left with and as a result are becoming even more unpopular than the administrations that they replaced. I always said (in the UK at least) that the winner of the most recent election would be inheriting a poisoned chalice as many of the policies they would be forced to implement would make them unelectable for a generation thereafter. Going by current polling data this certainly appears to be the case. As for an increase in the level of social conservatism, well that just seems to go hand in hand.

Poisoned chalice my fuckin' arse, they just dunno what they're fuckin' doing Thing is about a government or administration is it's easy sailing the ship through crap times, you can't campaign to get elected in times of austerity, make promises about doing this and this and this and this and then not see it through and then scream 'poisoned chalice' when you don't, you knew it was like that, its the measure of the effectiveness or your policies how well you help the country cope and rise up out of it, leaders have to lead, in good times, bad times, times of war etc etc all of that bollocks.

Fastest growing economy in Europe right now dear boy!

[Guest Len B'stard]

Depending on how far down the gurgler you are, that ain't really saying much

[Dazey]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25519110

[Guest Len B'stard]

This just in, England will beat Germany...like we always do Just don't let it go to penalties! Thats good news eh? we'll be the dogs bollocks in 16 years! Is that the Con-Dem coalitions doing then?

[November_rain]

I'd rather let the woman in question make that decision. Choices have consequences, it is their call, not some government or religious do-gooder.

Exactly!!. The current government is full of radical right people who at the same time are members of the Opus Dei (a religious radical sect/organization inside the Church) or are very religious and feel with the right to impose their views on others. They hide under the excuse of defending the lives of the "no born" and to protect the rights of women when the truth is that they have eliminated our right to choose.

They only allow abortion in case of rape or in case of psichological damage that has to be certified by doctors, and again, these doctors decide for the women not the women themselves.

At the end of the day this is an act of hypocrisy. They don´t care of each individual´s circumstances because taking that decision (abortion) is not easy and they talk as if women wanted to get rid of their babies at all cost and that´s not true. They don´t care of the consequences, they only care of imposing their beliefs and their views at all cost.

The govenrment want to force women to have all sorts of retarded kids, disabled kids and kids with all kinds of illnesses and deformities and at the same time they are cutting the finacial help and medical care these people and their families need. AND they are causing social economical distinctions because those who have money will be able to travel to London or Lisbon to have an abortion while the ones who can´t afford it will have to abort undercover and will put their lives in danger.

And ironically, those who strongly support the current government and their restrictions are the ones who send their wives and daughters to London "to learn English" and then the next Sunday they go to Church and dare bash other´s morals or lack of it.

[magisme]

The govenrment want to force women to have all sorts of retarded kids

[Aaron_H]

The govenrment want to force women to have all sorts of retarded kids

They're called Spaniards.

[***Flawless]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

I don't get this, you're making it sound as though 'radical' pro-choice people want to force women to get abortions. No one wants a woman/girl to get an abortion, they just want the option to be there if it's what the pregnant female wants done. I'd say the people that don't care about a woman/girl's mind are the 'pro-lifers' (aka anti-choice) that would happily force someone through 9 months of stress and pain, just because it makes them happy.

[classicrawker]

It is a very difficult personal decision....I could never do it and would be heartbroken if the woman I got pregnant insisted on getting one as I would rather have the child and work my ass off to support it but I am in favour of giving others the right to choose................

[Patience 4 Axl]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

As opposed to her state of mind for being forced to carry a child she didn't want (for any number of reasons) to term?

I have friends who have had abortions, it's indeed a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. I also know people that were given up at birth for adoption. That's something they will have to live with their entire lives as well. There are emotions involved no matter which choice has been made. And no one can judge which of those emotions for the people involved are any more or less substantial than the other.