Spain goes back to 30 years ago with the new Abortion law.

[Ace Nova]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

I don't get this, you're making it sound as though 'radical' pro-choice people want to force women to get abortions. No one wants a woman/girl to get an abortion, they just want the option to be there if it's what the pregnant female wants done. I'd say the people that don't care about a woman/girl's mind are the 'pro-lifers' (aka anti-choice) that would happily force someone through 9 months of stress and pain, just because it makes them happy.

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

As opposed to her state of mind for being forced to carry a child she didn't want (for any number of reasons) to term?

I have friends who have had abortions, it's indeed a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. I also know people that were given up at birth for adoption. That's something they will have to live with their entire lives as well. There are emotions involved no matter which choice has been made. And no one can judge which of those emotions for the people involved are any more or less substantial than the other.

I was referring to the extremes. Nothing to do with the moderate pro-lifers or pro-choicers. That's why I referred to Lenny's remark - he's a logically thinking pro-choicer. He wouldn't want to live with that decision and either would most women....but that's something you NEVER hear coming from the extreme pro-choicers....that's all I'm saying.

[November_rain]

..." i ain't having that on my fuckin' conscience."

That's what so many radically "pro-choice" advocates lack. The fact that a statement comes from a person who is nonreligious and pro-choice shows the difference of someone with logic vs. the extreme other side...the pro-choicers that could care less about the consciences or psychological ramifications, that women endure after having an abortion. They never worry about what happens to a woman's mind...they only care about a woman's "right" in regards to her body.

What good is a body without a mind?

I don't get this, you're making it sound as though 'radical' pro-choice people want to force women to get abortions. No one wants a woman/girl to get an abortion, they just want the option to be there if it's what the pregnant female wants done. I'd say the people that don't care about a woman/girl's mind are the 'pro-lifers' (aka anti-choice) that would happily force someone through 9 months of stress and pain, just because it makes them happy.

Agree. That is the difference. The pro-choice people want women to be allowed to choose while the pro-lifers want to impose their stand on the others.

Just a curious note: with the former choice law the number of abortions in Spain decreased.

[Ace Nova]

Agree. That is the difference. The pro-choice people want women to be allowed to choose while the pro-lifers want to impose their stand on the others.

Just a curious note: with the former choice law the number of abortions in Spain decreased.

My posts have little to do with the topic...and I apologize for derailing your thread.

[Rustycage]

"Blah blah blah Liberal Pro-Choicers...Blah blah blah Nazi Pro-Lifers."

Blah blah blah the world would probably be better off if everyone were getting abortions.

[dalsh327]

What I see happening out of this - false accusations of rape, and suicides because a 12 year old girl has no way of dealing with what to do at her age and doesn't want anyone to know.

I respect everyone's choice on what they would do for themselves, but the government should have the option to have abortions available to girls and women regardless of age, and just make it easier for couples to adopt.

[November_rain]

What I see happening out of this - false accusations of rape, and suicides because a 12 year old girl has no way of dealing with what to do at her age and doesn't want anyone to know.

I respect everyone's choice on what they would do for themselves, but the government should have the option to have abortions available to girls and women regardless of age, and just make it easier for couples to adopt.

Some of the members of Spanish government are religious radical people and they support the Church to put their noses in Politics and Educatioin like they used to do 30 years ago. The church is behind this decision with the consent of a big part of the members of the party in the government. By their logic, abortion is a no-no so they don´t care whether the girl is 12 or whether the fetus suffers some disease or deformation.

@Kasanova: your opinions are as welcome as anyone else´s. That´s what a forum is for

Edited December 28, 2013 by November_rain

[shades]

This just seems to be a massive set up for illegal and unsafe abortions, which I can guarantee will cause more deaths . (And yes, my beliefs on abortion are very Catholic).

Or maybe acting more responsibly

[ohlovelyrita]

I read a little about this. It is shameful that women would have to travel

to other countries to do this.

In the U.S., Roe vs. Wade didn't start women on getting abortions, it stopped women from

dying from them. (That's not mine but read something similar)

It is really appalling how the gov, religion, religion zealots are using their money and their

mouth to try to control women's reproductive organs. Why aren't they dedicated to a LIFELONG

concern for the women and their baby? Very few are and most have a selective conscience.

If you decide for someone to keep a pregnancy because their birth control failed, I think that would

give someone a dirty conscience going against the woman. Glad I'd never be that type to decide for

another, must feel shitty!

I think we already know that majority of women who have abortions do not regret it. That should

be enough information for those against choice.

I saw Femen ruled in!!

[shades]

If you decide for someone to keep a pregnancy because their birth control failed,

what exactly does that mean?

[Dazey]

In the U.S., Roe vs. Wade didn't start women on getting abortions, it stopped women from dying from them.

Spot on right there! Great post Rita! Edited December 28, 2013 by Dazey

[ohlovelyrita]

In the U.S., Roe vs. Wade didn't start women on getting abortions, it stopped women from dying from them.

Spot on right there! Great post Rita!

Dazey??? Is that you?

Thanks not mine but a great way to look at it......

.......wait.......we're agreeing? What have you done with Dazey?????

(screams) DAZEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(hears echo)

@Shades- How do you interpret that? I thought it was clear.

[AxlisOld]

This just seems to be a massive set up for illegal and unsafe abortions, which I can guarantee will cause more deaths . (And yes, my beliefs on abortion are very Catholic).

Or maybe acting more responsibly

Lol no. Making something illegal does not change behavior. Did people stop drinking during prohibition? I doubt there are a whole lot of people that think to themselves before having sex, "hmmm, I wouldnt use a condom when that enticing abortion was on the table before, but Id better play it safe now."

I dont think abortion should be a contraceptive afterthough, but theyre going to happen, so they may as well be safe and regulated.

[shades]

Equating abortion and unprotected sex resulting in an unwanted pregnancy with prohibition tells me there's really no reason to engage you in any type of reality based conversation.

I'm on the side of "choice", but also on the side that abortion is wrong.

So I am more than comfortable with my views in the spirit of humanity AND minding my own business in regard to the subject.

With the very rare exception of rape there is no responsible reason to play around with a life by having unprotected sex in the world we live in today.

There's numerous, safe ways of assuring your "accident" doesn't happen.

Assuming you have enough respect for yourself that you are having sex with someone you at least can have a civil conversation with afterwards if the two of you have "accidentally" created a life,

consider giving it to someone after term that would love to care for and love the child as you do not wish to.

And would only add sorry for the friggin inconvenence your error in judgement caused.

And

maybe if it wasn't as easy as going in to have a tattoo removed people may just take more precautions.

[Ace Nova]

Equating abortion and unprotected sex resulting in an unwanted pregnancy with prohibition tells me there's really no reason to engage you in any type of reality based conversation.

I'm on the side of "choice", but also on the side that abortion is wrong.

So I am more than comfortable with my views in the spirit of humanity AND minding my own business in regard to the subject.

With the very rare exception of rape there is no responsible reason to play around with a life by having unprotected sex in the world we live in today.

There's numerous, safe ways of assuring your "accident" doesn't happen.

Assuming you have enough respect for yourself that you are having sex with someone you at least can have a civil conversation with afterwards if the two of you have "accidentally" created a life,

consider giving it to someone after term that would love to care for and love the child as you do not wish to.

And would only add sorry for the friggin inconvenence your error in judgement caused.

And

maybe if it wasn't as easy as going in to have a tattoo removed people may just take more precautions.

Well said. I think many "moderate" pro-choice advocates and maybe some "moderate" pro-life advocates would have a difficult time disagreeing with any of this.

[ohlovelyrita]

Birth control is not 100%, let's not call that irresponsible

or "unprotected sex" when it fails.

Supposedly men's birth control might be on the horizon.

For those who think a fertilized embyro is a "Life?":

Edited December 28, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Dazey]

For those who think a fertilized embyro is a "Life?":

Oh come on Rita! You know that life starts at a semi-on!

[Guest Len B'stard]

Assuming you have enough respect for yourself that you are having sex with someone you at least can have a civil conversation with afterwards

I was with you until this bit

[ohlovelyrita]

@Dazey- Funny!! It got better and better! Genius all the way!

Male birth control pill. The down side is the orgasm won't feel same.

Should we give men a choice tho??? Put it to a vote!! :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/02/male-birth-control-block-sperm-ejaculation_n_4374122.html

[classicrawker]

Assuming you have enough respect for yourself that you are having sex with someone you at least can have a civil conversation with afterwards

I was with you until this bit

Yeah he obviously has never heard of coyote love............

[durruti column]

I can´t believe that in 2013 ( almost 2014) my country is going back in time and the debate is again taking place. IMO, I think I would have the baby but I support the right to choose. I think that a woman in that position suffers and it´s not an easy decision when they have to choose whether they want to have the baby or not.

But what makes it more ridiculous is the government´s hypocrisy. They want women to have disabled kids yet they have cut drastically all the financial help disabled people received. They don´t care of disabled kids, they don´t care of their therapies, wheel chairs, expensive medical treatments...

back in 2011, everybody knew that if rajoy won there was going to be a new abortion law because it was part of the electoral program, so we can only blame the people who voted for that party.

[November_rain]

Equating abortion and unprotected sex resulting in an unwanted pregnancy with prohibition tells me there's really no reason to engage you in any type of reality based conversation.

I'm on the side of "choice", but also on the side that abortion is wrong.

So I am more than comfortable with my views in the spirit of humanity AND minding my own business in regard to the subject.

With the very rare exception of rape there is no responsible reason to play around with a life by having unprotected sex in the world we live in today.

There's numerous, safe ways of assuring your "accident" doesn't happen.

Assuming you have enough respect for yourself that you are having sex with someone you at least can have a civil conversation with afterwards if the two of you have "accidentally" created a life,

consider giving it to someone after term that would love to care for and love the child as you do not wish to.

And would only add sorry for the friggin inconvenence your error in judgement caused.

And

maybe if it wasn't as easy as going in to have a tattoo removed people may just take more precautions.

Well said. I think many "moderate" pro-choice advocates and maybe some "moderate" pro-life advocates would have a difficult time disagreeing with any of this.

Therein lies another problem. The conservatives don´t want any sexual education programs and they treat those who support them as if they were prostitutes. It´s true that there are many ways to prevent pregnancy but those methods are not 100% reliable and in some cases they fail. When the Socialist party approved the choice law the right wing party claimed against it and acted as if women were going to abort massively. Guess what? The number of abortions decreased.

I can´t believe that in 2013 ( almost 2014) my country is going back in time and the debate is again taking place. IMO, I think I would have the baby but I support the right to choose. I think that a woman in that position suffers and it´s not an easy decision when they have to choose whether they want to have the baby or not.

But what makes it more ridiculous is the government´s hypocrisy. They want women to have disabled kids yet they have cut drastically all the financial help disabled people received. They don´t care of disabled kids, they don´t care of their therapies, wheel chairs, expensive medical treatments...

back in 2011, everybody knew that if rajoy won there was going to be a new abortion law because it was part of the electoral program, so we can only blame the people who voted for that party.

So true, unfortunately .

Also, I find it pretty ironic that the Popular Party (right wing) and the pro-lifers worry so much about protecting the rights of those kids that aren´t born yet and they don´t give a shit about the fact that 26% of Spanish children live in poverty conditions because of the economical crisis and they do nothing to help them.

Edited December 29, 2013 by November_rain

[Ace Nova]

Therein lies another problem. The conservatives don´t want any sexual education programs and they treat those who support them as if they were prostitutes.

Well, I don't agree with the extreme right either. Sex education is important...and the extreme right is as dangerous as the extreme left when they hold to fanatical beliefs.

Fortunately, in the U.S....those in opposition to sex education are in the overwhelming minority. 82% of Americans - both Republican and Democrat favor sex education.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Kasanova King

[Rustycage]

Considering that most conservatives despise public education, I doubt there are many republicans wanting to add sex ed to the public school curriculum.

And who is this supposed extreme left you are talking about?

[Ace Nova]

Considering that most conservatives despise public education, I doubt there are many republicans wanting to add sex ed to the public school curriculum.

And who is this supposed extreme left you are talking about?

NEW YORK — Most Americans, regardless of their political leanings, favor comprehensive sex education in schools over abstinence-only programs, researchers reported Monday.

Currently, the federal government champions the abstinence-only approach, giving around $170 million each year to states and community groups to teach just-say-no sex education. This funding precludes mention of birth control and condoms, unless it’s to emphasize their failure rates.

However, critics point out that studies have failed to show that abstinence-only education delays sex or lowers rates of teen pregnancy.

This latest study, according to the authors, suggests that the federal government is out of step not only with research, but also with public opinion.

Of the nearly 1,110 U.S. adults they surveyed, 82 percent supported programs that discuss abstinence as well as other methods for preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. Half were in outright opposition to abstinence-only education.

Even among self-described conservatives, 70 percent supported comprehensive sex ed., while 40 percent opposed the abstinence-only strategy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15603764/#.UsCgWLRG2M8

Extreme left? Anyone who blindly follows the extreme liberal agendas without any thought or use of pragmatism.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Kasanova King

[Rustycage]

Copy and pasta all you want but that still doesn't diminish the fact that one party, as a platform, despise public schooling and oppose increased spending of nearly any kind non-military. Republicans or "the extreme right" support a lot of things until they realize they actually have to pay for it.

And nice blanket statement of what constitutes the extreme left.