Spain goes back to 30 years ago with the new Abortion law.

[ohlovelyrita]

Good point Arnold--- stay in the future lives of the life the pro-lifers are advocating for.

Okay Kasanova-- you didn't answer about how he'd vote. That is why religious people worry me.

At least, you sound sane overall! Hope so, for your boy!

What? I outlined for you what I would tolerate.

Use the word "vote" which is an action not just an opinion --unless you don't want to say.

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

I like that you're honest but I don't like you would let your religious view impose on other's rights.

Pope Francis might awaken his followers:

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life.

On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?"

He did note that the church can't be expected to change their position but good religious people without those ungodly restrictions can.

Wake up, world! Join this century! Everything is getting worse in our economy.

In twenty years, it is estimated that 47% of all jobs will be obsolete. You want to plunge someone

into poverty to satisfy your invisible friend? And if you say "not invisible" then show me a picture!

If you say "impossible", then tell me how it is possible that humans evolved but your God hasn't chosen to update

his teachings? ---Oh, no one's heard anything in a while so they just make some "low" choices and attribute to this "higher" being.

Aren't you guys afraid that misinterpreting a higher being's guide to the galaxy might have its own

karmic ramifications? I would worry about that!

Edited December 30, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Ace Nova]

Good point Arnold--- stay in the future lives of the life the pro-lifers are advocating for.

Okay Kasanova-- you didn't answer about how he'd vote. That is why religious people worry me.

At least, you sound sane overall! Hope so, for your boy!

What? I outlined for you what I would tolerate.

Use the word "vote" which is an action not just an opinion --unless you don't want to say.

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

I like that you're honest but I don't like you would let your religious view impose on other's rights.

Pope Francis might awaken his followers:

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life.

On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?"

Don't disagree with him at all, actually.

I feel sorry for women who have to make that decision....as a matter of fact, the decision should involve the guy that got her pregnant too. Too many times women become victims of some d bag that just runs away from responsibility....and that's not right either.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasanova King

[ohlovelyrita]

Good point Arnold--- stay in the future lives of the life the pro-lifers are advocating for.

Okay Kasanova-- you didn't answer about how he'd vote. That is why religious people worry me.

At least, you sound sane overall! Hope so, for your boy!

What? I outlined for you what I would tolerate.

Use the word "vote" which is an action not just an opinion --unless you don't want to say.

More than likely, if it ever came to a vote, I'd vote pro-life....it's what I believe.

I like that you're honest but I don't like you would let your religious view impose on other's rights.

Pope Francis might awaken his followers:

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life.

On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?"

Don't disagree with him at all, actually.

I feel sorry for women who have to make that decision....as a matter of fact, the decision should involve the guy that got her pregnant too. Too many times women become victims of some d bag that just runs away from responsibility....and that's not right either.

Still... you will vote to limit choice, make it MORE difficult for her, and those bad guys will either get clean away or pay forced child support payments without putting in the hours and she is stuck holding the ba...baby!

I see you thought this through! Truth is is shouldn't be your decision in any God's universe. Might makes right?

[PappyTron]

"Stop Abortion Now - Practice Anal Sex"

[magisme]

If your girl says she doesn't take it in the butt, ask her if she's against choice.

[Ace Nova]

Still... you will vote to limit choice, make it MORE difficult for her, and those bad guys will either get clean away or pay forced child support payments without putting in the hours and she is stuck holding the ba...baby!

I see you thought this through! Truth is is shouldn't be your decision in any God's universe. Might makes right?

?

Last I checked, women couldn't get pregnant on their own.

[Snake-Pit]

Well...

Since Spain are being arseholes about Gibraltar, serves them right that they've been dragged back 30 years, if things got any worse at the border, I'd say Franco was back.

[Jakey Styley]

A bunch of old rich men putting such harsh restrictions on what women can/cannot do with their bodies doesn't feel right to me.

[ohlovelyrita]

Still... you will vote to limit choice, make it MORE difficult for her, and those bad guys will either get clean away or pay forced child support payments without putting in the hours and she is stuck holding the ba...baby!

I see you thought this through! Truth is is shouldn't be your decision in any God's universe. Might makes right?

?

Last I checked, women couldn't get pregnant on their own.

Guilty conscience already creating a smokescreen? What are you confused about?

Um.....clearly we are talking about when a women accidentally gets pregnant.

I wish I could vote against your right to vote against choice in women's reproductive rights!

[Ace Nova]

You asked what my personal stance was on abortion...like many others I think it's wrong. As far as the law goes, I'm not a lawmaker....but if pertained to me, under the roof of my own house....obviously I'd be pro life. But I'm also a realist and realize that there are a multitude of scenarios in the real world where a woman may want to have that choice....who am I to tell her she can't? I can only influence the people I know, etc.

[ohlovelyrita]

Come to think of it....I think I'm tired of appeasing the pro choice circle....

Other than if the life of the mother is at risk....(rape and incest maybe)....I think I'm leaning pro-life. Technology and the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are waiting to adopt....no....women (and men) shouldn't be allowed to use abortion as a form of birth control - which 90% of them are.

I don't know if you are aware but I know adoption agencies are changing from placing infants into

protective permanent homes and focusing on placing foster children in same.

Pro-lifers want to focus on the baby shortage but ask yourself if you would carry a baby

full-term and put the wear and tear on your body to put that baby in an unknown situation?

Besides all the work that would be missed during those 9 months due to sickness and pain.

There is karma for everything we do. If a woman aborts her fetus, she has many chances to

promote life elsewhere. If she puts the baby up for adoption, she lives with guilt, too. In that

case she actually had more of a connection with the being than when it was a tiny clump of cells.

(Alert: hot topic word)

So I ask the people who are pro-lifers to open their home to foster child at some

point. People looking to adopt want infants. Why don't the pro-lifers get on them

and tell them to love all lives?!

Edited December 30, 2013 by ohlovelyrita

[Rustycage]

Pro-Lifers - Caring so much about the unborn and saying, "Screw em after the birth" since 1973.

[Ace Nova]

Rusty, I think you raise some valid points and I think that many in the pro life circle do fit the criteria you outlined....on the other hand, many don't.

As far as women living with the guilt of adoption vs. abortion, everyone's different....I can only speak for myself....personally, I would gain satisfaction knowing that I sacrificed nine months of my life to create another one. And although the situation I was in dictated it would be best to give the baby up for adoption, I would know in my heart, I did the right thing. That's just me.....like I said, everyone is different.

[Rustycage]

That's where a lot of pro-lifers come off as unrealistic.

On one hand, they think the baby should be born regardless of certain circumstances and put up for adoption if they aren't wanted.

Then on the other hand they are so closed minded on the aspects of actually taking care of the child during the process. Just filling up the group homes like a pet store while they wait for someone to pick them is pathetic.

They only seem to care about their circumstance before birth. After, they go back to their animal kingdom mentality of letting the weak fend for themselves. All the while ignoring that the main decision behind abortion is the financial crisis giving birth would bring.

Stop attacking the social services that help those that actually DO go through with the pregnancy and maybe they wouldn't come off as so full of shit.

[Ace Nova]

That's where a lot of pro-lifers come off as unrealistic.

On one hand, they think the baby should be born regardless of certain circumstances and put up for adoption if they aren't wanted.

Then on the other hand they are so closed minded on the aspects of actually taking care of the child during the process. Just filling up the group homes like a pet store while they wait for someone to pick them is pathetic.

They only seem to care about their circumstance before birth. After, they go back to their animal kingdom mentality of letting the weak fend for themselves. All the while ignoring that the main decision behind abortion is the financial crisis giving birth would bring.

Stop attacking the social services that help those that actually DO go through with the pregnancy and maybe they wouldn't come off as so full of shit.

I certainly never attacked the social services that help people go through pregnancy, afterwards, etc....I even support social security for those that it "could bring financial crisis to"....I support them 100%.

Like I said, I am as moderate as you can get.(with my views)

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasanova King

[magisme]

Moderate extremist.

[Rustycage]

Moderates don't typically build straw men for one side in an effort to defend the other side. That's all I really said. Don't know why we're still harping on that, though.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Rustycage

[Ace Nova]

Moderates don't typically build straw men for one side in an effort to defend the other side. That's all I really said. Don't know why we're still harping on that, though.

We were discussing pro choice extremists. Obviously the pro life extremists who think it's ok to judge, physically attack and threaten pro choice advocates...or couldn't care less if the mother's life is at risk....or like you said, would be against programs supporting unwanted pregnancies, etc. are just as bad. They are hypocritical in their own right.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasanova King

[Angelica]

That's where a lot of pro-lifers come off as unrealistic.

On one hand, they think the baby should be born regardless of certain circumstances and put up for adoption if they aren't wanted.

Then on the other hand they are so closed minded on the aspects of actually taking care of the child during the process. Just filling up the group homes like a pet store while they wait for someone to pick them is pathetic.

They only seem to care about their circumstance before birth. After, they go back to their animal kingdom mentality of letting the weak fend for themselves. All the while ignoring that the main decision behind abortion is the financial crisis giving birth would bring.

Or even the financial crisis being pregnant could bring.

I love hearing pregnancy being trivialized by men as at worst, some kind of minor inconvenience. All pregnancies come with a host of things that can go wrong without warning and have lifelong ramifications on the woman's health, not to mention the fact that the rates of women who DIE either in labor or due to post-birth complications have doubled in the US from where they were in the 80s. Women who do decide to go through with an unwanted pregnancy and put the child up for adoption deserve a world of credit, but it's an extraordinarily complex decision to make - and one that's not realistic for everyone.

[Ace Nova]

That's where a lot of pro-lifers come off as unrealistic.

On one hand, they think the baby should be born regardless of certain circumstances and put up for adoption if they aren't wanted.

Then on the other hand they are so closed minded on the aspects of actually taking care of the child during the process. Just filling up the group homes like a pet store while they wait for someone to pick them is pathetic.

They only seem to care about their circumstance before birth. After, they go back to their animal kingdom mentality of letting the weak fend for themselves. All the while ignoring that the main decision behind abortion is the financial crisis giving birth would bring.

I love hearing pregnancy being trivialized by men as at worst, some kind of minor inconvenience. All pregnancies come with a host of things that can go wrong without warning and have lifelong ramifications on the woman's health, not to mention the fact that the rates of women who DIE either in labor or due to post-birth complications have doubled in the US from where they were in the 80s.

Uhm....no disrespect but the rate is 15 deaths per 100,000 births. The woman probably has as much of a chance of contracting HIV, Hepatitis, or other serious STD's by not using protection as she does dying because of child birth. So by your logic, women should practice abstinence.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasanova King

[Rustycage]

Your moderate fig leaf is slipping.

[Rustycage]

And there are actually those that believe that the body naturally shuts down the pregnancy after rape. Or that pregnancies do not result from incest.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Rustycage

[Ace Nova]

Your moderate fig leaf is slipping.

(insert smiley face here)

I just don't think reasons like, "The rate of women dying because of child birth has doubled" has anything to do with a pro choice or pro life debate. It's fanatical statements like those, designed as scare tactics, that only the extreme sides would use. That logic is no different than a pro life advocate stating that women who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide after having an abortion.

[Rustycage]

It's a variable to be considered. It may be inconvenient for you but it matters.

The biggest fears that lead to an abortion are money, pain and possible death. You can't cherry pick which factors should be discussed.

[Ace Nova]

It's a variable to be considered. It may be inconvenient for you but it matters.

The biggest fears that lead to an abortion are money, pain and possible death. You can't cherry pick which factors should be discussed.

I can see the money and pain factors but the death factor doesn't make sense. Statistically, women are just as likely to die from complications from an abortion than from complications from child birth. (The latter the abortion, the higher chance of death).

From a pro-choice website:

The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16-20 weeks, and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks. The latter numbers have decreased significantly over the past 10 years due to advancement in abortion surgical procedure techniques and the new medications used to terminate pregnancy.

http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_stats.html

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasanova King