Which ones of Axl's indescretions do you find it diificult to forgive him for?

[Nosaj Thing]

It's not like I have to forgive him, he's nothing but a 80s rock star I used to like.

The woman hitting thing

This. So low of Axl, very very low.

[Apollo]

Axl's biggest problem is not realising the talent he had/has around him at any given time. He doesn't seem to understand that he has had some of the best musicians around him, only to act foolish to have them one after another abandon his band.

And on top of that his biggest flaw is that he doesn't learn from the past, and continues to follow the same pattern.

Best post I've read all day!

Combine everything you said with the fact that he has millions of fans who would support him no matter what.

The guy has everything he needs.............yet, for some reason, chooses to not take advantage of all of it.

********

Nov-Rain......you are right, in a sense. It isn't my job to forgive Axl for things he does in his personal life. But, I also don't have to praise what he does or accept what he does, simply because he is a singer in a band. What he does in his personal life has no effect on me. I love the guy's music. But from all I've read and seen over the last 25 years, he seems like a really troubled person in real life. And as far as him beating up women - I view him the same way I view ALL men who beat up women. He doesn't get a pass simple because he is a famous rock singer. If you found out your mother or your sister or your best friend was beaten up by their husband, how would you feel about him? Would you say "Oh, none of my business. Not my place to judge." Or would you have disgust and contempt for him?

Your anger should be with the person who made this topic, not with people who are simply responding to it. Nobody is saying that it is our position to forgive him. Most of us view him as a rock singer, we don't have some personal attachment to him and feel we have to defend and justify him, or that he is bigger/better or more important than the average person.

Greatest rock singer of my generation. But my world and opinions don't revolve around him or what he does.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Groghan

[Damn_Smooth]

Not defending a thing here, but I have a question. Why is Axl's abuse of women brought up more and looked farther down upon than Slash's, Steven's and Izzy's? In my view, they are equally disgusting; but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Apollo]

Not defending a thing here, but I have a question. Why is Axl's abuse of women brought up more and looked farther down upon than Slash's, Steven's and Izzy's? In my view, they are equally disgusting; but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I guess because GnR currently is pretty much Axl Rose and the majority of topics/comments here revolve around Axl.

Slash, I just heard him and his wife got into it and neither pressed charges. Haven't heard anything about Izzy. And Steven just seems like a complete mess and complete screw-up.

People on here focus more on Axl because he has had multiple different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid 1.4 million dollars to two of them.

But a vocal portion of the forum still defends him to this day, and their excuses are so ridiculous that it leads to normal people responding - and then it turns into a big fight.

They deserved it. They were crazy. Look who they are married to now. Stephanie was mean to Axl 500 years ago, so she deserved what she got. There were no witnesses - even though Axl himself admitted he hit Erin and there are lots of witnesses to him hitting both. (I just read the Steven Pearcy book and he says he was at a party at their house once and he saw Axl punch Stephanie in the face). Axl was abused as a child, so we can't blame him.

I think if the people who defend everything Axl does would simply say "Ya, that was an ugly time period of his life. Spousal abuse is never OK. I wish he hadn't done it. And I wouldn't let my sister date him. We can't change the past, I don't condone what he did, I feel sorry for the women. But he is my favorite singer and I'm just supporting his musical career." Then you wouldn't see the big fights on here.

But instead they defend Axl, bash the women, and insult other posters. People respond. It gets blown up.

[Nosaj Thing]

I think it is focused on Axl because...

Which one of Axl's indiscretions do you find it difficult to forgive him about?

[Damn_Smooth]

Not defending a thing here, but I have a question. Why is Axl's abuse of women brought up more and looked farther down upon than Slash's, Steven's and Izzy's? In my view, they are equally disgusting; but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I guess because GnR currently is pretty much Axl Rose and the majority of topics/comments here revolve around Axl.

Slash, I just heard him and his wife got into it and neither pressed charges. Haven't heard anything about Izzy. And Steven just seems like a complete mess and complete screw-up.

People on here focus more on Axl because he has had multiple different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid 1.4 million dollars to two of them.

But a vocal portion of the forum still defends him to this day, and their excuses are so ridiculous that it leads to normal people responding - and then it turns into a big fight.

They deserved it. They were crazy. Look who they are married to now. Stephanie was mean to Axl 500 years ago, so she deserved what she got. There were no witnesses - even though Axl himself admitted he hit Erin and there are lots of witnesses to him hitting both. (I just read the Steven Pearcy book and he says he was at a party at their house once and he saw Axl punch Stephanie in the face). Axl was abused as a child, so we can't blame him.

I think if the people who defend everything Axl does would simply say "Ya, that was an ugly time period of his life. Spousal abuse is never OK. I wish he hadn't done it. And I wouldn't let my sister date him. We can't change the past, I don't condone what he did, I feel sorry for the women. But he is my favorite singer and I'm just supporting his musical career." Then you wouldn't see the big fights on here.

But instead they defend Axl, bash the women, and insult other posters. People respond. It gets blown up.

Thank you for the response, though it does seem to me at times it is brought up just to try and get a reaction from Axl fans, I can agree that it happens the way you describe it as well. I guess people like to use it to get a reaction from each other, which is pretty fucked up; but this place wouldn't be the same without it.

I think it is focused on Axl because...Which one of Axl's indiscretions do you find it difficult to forgive him about?

That would apply if this were the only thread it was discussed in, you know as well as I that it's not though.

[shannen]

I am going to post an unending wall of text about something I know absolutely nothing about because I desperately crave attention

A great teacher once said that by the same means you choose to judge someone you will in fact be judged.

I think we have all done and said things we aren't proud of.

Edited January 6, 2014 by shannen

[D-GenerationX]

The late start times for literally no reason at all.

There is no reason you cannot be onstage by say, 9-9:30. The only reason not to is a conscious decision by you to make people wait.

It fucks up the whole mood. No other major band has their own crowd booing them as they sit through music playing over the PA. No other major band has so many fans flat out leave before they eve take the stage.

The reaction to a band hitting the stage should be unbridled joy. At a GNR concert, its more a feeling "About fucking time...assholes."

[The_Universal_Sigh]

Being the main reason the band broke up. They were all working together jamming and he wouldn't go yet was determined to control it. Tht doesn't make sense. Also every single ex band member from the time has pointed toward axl as being the problem. There's all kinds of Izzy quotes about this and maybe two or three where he mentions the band over partying. Anyone who denies axl is the reason he left hasn't read the available izzy interviews. Of course we all know duff and slash and sorum feel that way. As I only care about axl because he plays for gnr, and he broke up gnr, that's by far my biggest gripe with him.

[estrangedtwat]

It's hard to give a shit about what Old Man Axl does these days...good or bad; it's simply too little, too late. Who honestly cares that Axl tours a lot now that he's old and fat and can't sing?? He should have been touring throughout his 30s!!!

The unforgivable thing in my mind is pissing away almost a decade from 1994-2001 without so much as a peep. What should have been a decade ripe with opportunities and creativity and he sat alone and sulked in his mansion.

And no, hiring session musicians to dick around in a studio and record thousands of hours of riffs and jams doesn't count as "writing an album."

If he was out there playing shows, collaborating with artists, allowing old shows to be released.....ANYTHING would have been better than what he did.

He pissed away what could have been some of the best years of his life and now all we're left with is a fat joke, a shadow of what could have been.

[November_rain]

Nov-Rain......you are right, in a sense. It isn't my job to forgive Axl for things he does in his personal life. But, I also don't have to praise what he does or accept what he does, simply because he is a singer in a band. What he does in his personal life has no effect on me. I love the guy's music. But from all I've read and seen over the last 25 years, he seems like a really troubled person in real life. And as far as him beating up women - I view him the same way I view ALL men who beat up women. He doesn't get a pass simple because he is a famous rock singer. If you found out your mother or your sister or your best friend was beaten up by their husband, how would you feel about him? Would you say "Oh, none of my business. Not my place to judge." Or would you have disgust and contempt for him?

Your anger should be with the person who made this topic, not with people who are simply responding to it. Nobody is saying that it is our position to forgive him. Most of us view him as a rock singer, we don't have some personal attachment to him and feel we have to defend and justify him, or that he is bigger/better or more important than the average person.

Greatest rock singer of my generation. But my world and opinions don't revolve around him or what he does.

Nobody is saying that you have to praise and accept what he does. I just couldn´t help answering to people who feel entitled to "forgive" Axl for something related to his personal life, that is ridiculous and you can´t deny that. By having that opinion doesn´t mean that I support of justify everything he says or does. I admire him as a singer and what he does in his personal life does not affect me and is not my business. Also, nobody is saying that you have to give him a pass with regards to the domestic violence matter just because he is a famous singer. As I´ve said many times, that is wrong and has no justification at all and I don´t understand why you act as if I was in the "they deserved it" club because I am not, not at all. And just fyi, one of my best friends used to be beaten by her ex and I helped her to open the eyes and leave the hell she was living in with that guy so, next time you decide to judge someone because of a few posts in an internet forum you should think twice. You are very, very wrong in your assumptions about me.

You make me laugh with your absurd allusions that I have anger issues because of what I post in an internet forum

[Val22]

Yeah, the concert where James Hetfield got burned by the pyros and Axl decided his voice wasn't feeling good to go on stage early and didn't show up at all.

It was fair to Metallica nor GNR fans.

I think if Axl had to do that over again, he would suck it up and go on stage for the fans.

People got hurt that night and a lot of damage was done to the venue and the city, so that wasn't cool at all.

Sometimes when your ego gets in the way of common sense you make the wrong choices in life. This was one of them for Axl and GNR.

I saw some of the footage where Axl was smoking and drinking at the same time as he was saying he didn't feel well enough to go on stage. Why did the rest of the band say anything? I would have say, WTF Axl our fans are out there waiting for us, let's suck it up and rock it!

I guess since those were the drunk/drug days, no one cared to make a different choice against Axl.

I hope Axl has learned a good lesson from this fiasco.

[J Dog]

I won't say "forgive" since he doesn't owe me a damn thing and he's never done anything to me. I will say it still bothers me that he dropped the ball during '02. Ending the tour midway, stopping any momentum of CD getting released at that time, pretty much ending the Brain/Bucket era. I just really wish he released CD during the 2000-2002 time frame.

[Mr. Dude]

Yeah, the concert where James Hetfield got burned by the pyros and Axl decided his voice wasn't feeling good to go on stage early and didn't show up at all.

It was fair to Metallica nor GNR fans.

I think if Axl had to do that over again, he would suck it up and go on stage for the fans.

People got hurt that night and a lot of damage was done to the venue and the city, so that wasn't cool at all.

Sometimes when your ego gets in the way of common sense you make the wrong choices in life. This was one of them for Axl and GNR.

I saw some of the footage where Axl was smoking and drinking at the same time as he was saying he didn't feel well enough to go on stage. Why did the rest of the band say anything? I would have say, WTF Axl our fans are out there waiting for us, let's suck it up and rock it!

I guess since those were the drunk/drug days, no one cared to make a different choice against Axl.

I hope Axl has learned a good lesson from this fiasco.

He did go onstage that night, but he stopped the show early...and you didn't see any footage of him drinking and smoking that night, you just heard Jason Newsted talking about it. I'm not saying it isn't true, but I guarantee you haven't seen footage of him backstage in Montreal and if you did then you're the first and only one who has.

[Facekicker]

Not filming Stephanie using the kitty litter and uploading it later on to the net.

Unforgivable Axl, unforgivable.

[stumbleine]

calling his bro Slash a "cancer",that's when I stopped idolizing Axl.

that shit's not right.

and everyone knows.

[volcano62]

Not defending a thing here, but I have a question. Why is Axl's abuse of women brought up more and looked farther down upon than Slash's, Steven's and Izzy's? In my view, they are equally disgusting; but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I guess because GnR currently is pretty much Axl Rose and the majority of topics/comments here revolve around Axl.

Slash, I just heard him and his wife got into it and neither pressed charges. Haven't heard anything about Izzy. And Steven just seems like a complete mess and complete screw-up.

People on here focus more on Axl because he has had multiple different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid 1.4 million dollars to two of them.

But a vocal portion of the forum still defends him to this day, and their excuses are so ridiculous that it leads to normal people responding - and then it turns into a big fight.

They deserved it. They were crazy. Look who they are married to now. Stephanie was mean to Axl 500 years ago, so she deserved what she got. There were no witnesses - even though Axl himself admitted he hit Erin and there are lots of witnesses to him hitting both. (I just read the Steven Pearcy book and he says he was at a party at their house once and he saw Axl punch Stephanie in the face). Axl was abused as a child, so we can't blame him.

I think if the people who defend everything Axl does would simply say "Ya, that was an ugly time period of his life. Spousal abuse is never OK. I wish he hadn't done it. And I wouldn't let my sister date him. We can't change the past, I don't condone what he did, I feel sorry for the women. But he is my favorite singer and I'm just supporting his musical career." Then you wouldn't see the big fights on here.

But instead they defend Axl, bash the women, and insult other posters. People respond. It gets blown up.

Thank you for the response, though it does seem to me at times it is brought up just to try and get a reaction from Axl fans, I can agree that it happens the way you describe it as well. I guess people like to use it to get a reaction from each other, which is pretty fucked up; but this place wouldn't be the same without it.

I think it is focused on Axl because...Which one of Axl's indiscretions do you find it difficult to forgive him about?

That would apply if this were the only thread it was discussed in, you know as well as I that it's not though.

How come nobody talks about John Lennon beating the shit out of his first wife? Why does he get a free pass?

[magisme]

I think we can all agree that no man who beats women should get a free pass. I fuckin' hope we can agree on that.

[Young_Gun]

The woman hitting thing

To be fair, the women hit back

Funny what Axl worshippers will say to defend him...

[volcano62]

I think we can all agree that no man who beats women should get a free pass. I fuckin' hope we can agree on that.

Lennon has a free pass

[EvH]

Some people on this board are really stupid.

"lolz u haterz Axl didnt hit on purpose & she hit back lol"

Seriously, think about how desperate you look, mindless blinfolded fanboys.

[Apollo]

Nov_Rain..........really? You obviously have a problem with this topic, you've stated that a couple times. I said "your anger should be towards the person who started the topic".....and from that simple sentence, you took that I was saying you have anger issues??? I don't even know how to respond to something like that. The only thing I can say is maybe go back and re-read what I posted.

Shannen......I'll try and dumb down my posts for you in the future. I like it when people write "walls of text' when they respond to people's comments and questions. I like it when people are respectful enough to actually answer with well-thought out and thorough responses - rather than simple one sentence "Axl is always right" comments. But when responding to you specifically in the future, I'll try and make sure my answers are limited to one sentence responses and only with words that have less than eight letters.

Damn--------Ya, I agree that sometimes people probably do bring it up specifically because they know it will get a certain group on here fired up. Both sides do it. Out of nowhere in a topic, one side will bring up Slash in a negative way. I think the other side will bring up negative Axl things the same way.

Volcano............does Lennon get a pass? This is a GnR forum, so people talk about Axl. I'm not sure how people talk about Lennon on Beatles forums? The guy was a woman beater, junkie and a terrible father to his first son - but he was one of the best song writers and singers of all time, so I guess a lot of people overlook his dark personal life. Sort of like people on here do with Axl. I guess having a great singing voice makes-up for being a prick in real life?

Mags...........I hope we can all agree on that! Nobody is saying Axl should go to jail today because he used to beat up his women, but I hope we can all agree that just because he is a rock singer that it doesn't make it all go away.

[spgunner]

There have been a few/lot, some more serious then others, if you are not down with the Axl Rose story '87 - present day then I do not want to be the one to list all of his misdemeanors here.

For me, there's the biggest (?) obvious one, destroying the old band, I'm not trying to get into an argument here, i'm a big an Axl fan as anyone, but the rather overwhelming evidence is that it was his behaviour that led to the break up of the band, and that if he acted with a modicum of more decorum then the bad might have had a fighting chance, I don't think it's really up for debate. That's a sore one.

Another one that continues to leave a sour taste in the mouth, are the stories (factual) of him not starting the shows in South America in '10-'11(?) until 3am. Now that just sucks. To keep a stadium of people waiting for that long is disgraceful to perfectly honest. It would have been bad enough if was the all conquering original Gn'r, but knowing that this band packed far less of a punch, makes it worse.

Which ones do you have a hard time with?

If you think any fan might need to FORGIVE Axl... man you're in serious trouble. Deep shit ! Go get some kind of treatment. I see so many serious topics being locked or gone... this one should be one of those. And if you really think you should forgive Axl for something... go listen Justin Bieber or Motley Crue and forget about GN'R !

In the other hand... should Axl forgive the stupid fans he's got over the years? I think the real fans owe him an apology for all the shit we all read at the forums.

[Apollo]

There have been a few/lot, some more serious then others, if you are not down with the Axl Rose story '87 - present day then I do not want to be the one to list all of his misdemeanors here.

For me, there's the biggest (?) obvious one, destroying the old band, I'm not trying to get into an argument here, i'm a big an Axl fan as anyone, but the rather overwhelming evidence is that it was his behaviour that led to the break up of the band, and that if he acted with a modicum of more decorum then the bad might have had a fighting chance, I don't think it's really up for debate. That's a sore one.

Another one that continues to leave a sour taste in the mouth, are the stories (factual) of him not starting the shows in South America in '10-'11(?) until 3am. Now that just sucks. To keep a stadium of people waiting for that long is disgraceful to perfectly honest. It would have been bad enough if was the all conquering original Gn'r, but knowing that this band packed far less of a punch, makes it worse.

Which ones do you have a hard time with?

If you think any fan might need to FORGIVE Axl... man you're in serious trouble. Deep shit ! Go get some kind of treatment. I see so many serious topics being locked or gone... this one should be one of those. And if you really think you should forgive Axl for something... go listen Justin Bieber or Motley Crue and forget about GN'R !

In the other hand... should Axl forgive the stupid fans he's got over the years? I think the real fans owe him an apology for all the shit we all read at the forums.

what in the world does Justin bieber or motley crue have to do with forgiving Axl or GnR music?

Should Axl forgive the stupid fans? You mean the ones who buy his albums and pay money to go to his concerts, affording Axl to live like a king?

You think the "real" fans owe him an apology for all the thing we all read at the forums? Wow. In your small one paragraph comment, it's hard to choose with statement was the most idiotic. But I think the real fans sentence slightly beats out the Justin Bieber one.

[spgunner]

Afford Axl to live like a king? Excuse me mr. communist, but that's how it works. A concert is also a job, requires money. Internet made music free which is a shame, because young people don't give the same value to music people from the old days give. To go to a store, buy an album, go home, open it, smell it, read every corner of the booklet, listen each and every song one by one. Now people just download 100 songs per day, barely listen to 50 WHILE they're doing other things. Yes Axl do deserve the money from concerts and from the record sales, it's the least we can do for him for everything he gave us through the years.

The Bieber/Crue comment is just to show that maybe some people here should go somehwre else. I don't dig any Slash material since he's first Snakepit album. Therefore Im not into a Slash related forum complaining and bitching like a fuckin' pussy, I just erased the asshole from my life. If any of you ain't happy with the current line up or whatever from the present, get the fuck out and go jerk off using the past but leave the ones who are happy about the present alone.

And I was being ironic (maybe not?!) about real fans to owe Axl an apology. Go search at the dictionary - I R O N Y.