Randy Rhoads vs. Eddie Van Halen

[moreblack]

Jake plays his ass off in that whole concert. He had some pretty original takes on the solos for the Randy stuff.

Coolest thing about the Killer Of Giants solo is that double octave thing he does with both his right and left hand at 3:54, I haven't seen many players, even elite level players, do that so naturally and make it fit the song.

Shame they had to tune down so low for Ozzy's strained range at that show.

Edited March 17, 2014 by moreblack

[Georgy Zhukov]

That being said, I'd take a song like Killer Of Giants over most of Diary Of A Madman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtfy8UJL2pU

I honestly think Ozzy and Randy had the one good album in them, and the second one was a significant drop in quality both in performance and songwriting.

I've heard different.

[dalsh327]

Jake E Lee & West Arkeen lived in the same area, but I don't know if they knew each other.

Even though it's hard to tell now, Quiet Riot was the big band on Sunset and Van Halen was barely becoming known, but Ed eclipsed him pretty fast. Randy acklowledged lifting Ed's style but it's what got him the gig with Ozzy. Odds are he'd be doing that G3 stuff with Satch and Vai and maybe one more album with Ozzy would have happened.

Edited March 17, 2014 by dalsh327

[DR DOOM]

Randy would have died of throat cancer by now if he had continued smoking the way he did.

He had agreed to do the live album of Sabbath covers ( after threatening to quit over it) and one more studio album which ended up being Speak/Talk Of The Devil and BATM respectively.

He did not enjoy being on the road, the outrageousness, hated flying and also did not like Black Sabbath at all.

He was going to get his master's degree in classical guitar, and more than likely return to rock guitar at a later date.

[PappyTron]

Randy would have died of throat cancer by now if he had continued smoking the way he did.

He had agreed to do the live album of Sabbath covers ( after threatening to quit over it) and one more studio album which ended up being Speak/Talk Of The Devil and BATM respectively.

He did not enjoy being on the road, the outrageousness, hated flying and also did not like Black Sabbath at all.

He was going to get his master's degree in classical guitar, and more than likely return to rock guitar at a later date.

Randy Rhoads didn't hate flying THAT much...

[DR DOOM]

Yowzah!

Tomorrow (the 19th) will be 32 years since the crash.

[OmarBradley]

Eddie is the complete package as a guitar player: He's got the chops, the songwriting ability, the innovation and original style, the tone, the riffs, the solos, and he looked cool. Guitarists like that come once in a generation, if at all. I really like the fact he came up with and recorded an amazing solo like the Beat It solo and a chord progression for it in 20 minutes.

I was thinking more about this, I don't think it's immensely impressive that he came up with a solo and chord progression in 20 minutes. I'm assuming you're talking about the verse progression, it's a simple 6-7-8 pattern. And any lead player should be able to improvise a decent solo, and then remember roughly what was played so that it could be fairly easily replicated. Solo + verse progression in 20 minutes, sign of a good guitarist? Yes. But I don't think it helps the argument that he's better than Randy.

[bran]

Yowzah!

Tomorrow (the 19th) will be 32 years since the crash.

he died way too young

Edited March 18, 2014 by bran

[Iron MikeyJ]

Eddie is the complete package as a guitar player: He's got the chops, the songwriting ability, the innovation and original style, the tone, the riffs, the solos, and he looked cool. Guitarists like that come once in a generation, if at all. I really like the fact he came up with and recorded an amazing solo like the Beat It solo and a chord progression for it in 20 minutes.

I was thinking more about this, I don't think it's immensely impressive that he came up with a solo and chord progression in 20 minutes. I'm assuming you're talking about the verse progression, it's a simple 6-7-8 pattern. And any lead player should be able to improvise a decent solo, and then remember roughly what was played so that it could be fairly easily replicated. Solo + verse progression in 20 minutes, sign of a good guitarist? Yes. But I don't think it helps the argument that he's better than Randy.

While I also enjoy the story behind Beat it, I agree that any lead guitarist worth a grain of salt could come up with something in that time frame. What he actually played is the impressive part imo, that solo is fucking sick. IMO it makes the song. I like MJ and all, and he had a good song with or without Eddie, but Eddie took that song to new heights. It's one of my top 5 EVH solos, thats why I'm not suprised DLR was pissed about it. I'm sure he would of prefered Eddie play something very similiar on a VH song. But I gotta give Quincy Jones credit, cause he helped get that solo out of him, thats what good producers do right?

[JONEZY]

Voted for Eddie. Love Randy too. I think timing has a lot to do with it. Van Halen and Quiet Riot were opening for each other in LA in the 70's. Good competition between Ed and Randy. Also, George Lynch was in a band in LA at the time, apparently VH opened for his band a few times. But Eddie(VH) got signed first and the rest is history. And the songs are legendary.

I also have a hard time believing Randy would have left Ozzy after the "Diary of a Madman" tour. He could have studied classical guitar and still put out another album or 2 with Ozzy at the same time. Money is always a factor. Just my opinion.

[dalsh327]

Eddie is the complete package as a guitar player: He's got the chops, the songwriting ability, the innovation and original style, the tone, the riffs, the solos, and he looked cool. Guitarists like that come once in a generation, if at all. I really like the fact he came up with and recorded an amazing solo like the Beat It solo and a chord progression for it in 20 minutes.

I was thinking more about this, I don't think it's immensely impressive that he came up with a solo and chord progression in 20 minutes. I'm assuming you're talking about the verse progression, it's a simple 6-7-8 pattern. And any lead player should be able to improvise a decent solo, and then remember roughly what was played so that it could be fairly easily replicated. Solo + verse progression in 20 minutes, sign of a good guitarist? Yes. But I don't think it helps the argument that he's better than Randy.

While I also enjoy the story behind Beat it, I agree that any lead guitarist worth a grain of salt could come up with something in that time frame. What he actually played is the impressive part imo, that solo is fucking sick. IMO it makes the song. I like MJ and all, and he had a good song with or without Eddie, but Eddie took that song to new heights. It's one of my top 5 EVH solos, thats why I'm not suprised DLR was pissed about it. I'm sure he would of prefered Eddie play something very similiar on a VH song. But I gotta give Quincy Jones credit, cause he helped get that solo out of him, thats what good producers do right?

The foundation of "Thriller" can be heard on Quincy Jones' "The Dude", most of the people involved in that album were on "Thriller".

Steve Lukather is the reason why Eddie did it, they've been friends for decades. I've also seen an interview where Randy mentioned liking Lukather's playing, and it's not like Randy did many interviews.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Eddie is the complete package as a guitar player: He's got the chops, the songwriting ability, the innovation and original style, the tone, the riffs, the solos, and he looked cool. Guitarists like that come once in a generation, if at all. I really like the fact he came up with and recorded an amazing solo like the Beat It solo and a chord progression for it in 20 minutes.

I was thinking more about this, I don't think it's immensely impressive that he came up with a solo and chord progression in 20 minutes. I'm assuming you're talking about the verse progression, it's a simple 6-7-8 pattern. And any lead player should be able to improvise a decent solo, and then remember roughly what was played so that it could be fairly easily replicated. Solo + verse progression in 20 minutes, sign of a good guitarist? Yes. But I don't think it helps the argument that he's better than Randy.

While I also enjoy the story behind Beat it, I agree that any lead guitarist worth a grain of salt could come up with something in that time frame. What he actually played is the impressive part imo, that solo is fucking sick. IMO it makes the song. I like MJ and all, and he had a good song with or without Eddie, but Eddie took that song to new heights. It's one of my top 5 EVH solos, thats why I'm not suprised DLR was pissed about it. I'm sure he would of prefered Eddie play something very similiar on a VH song. But I gotta give Quincy Jones credit, cause he helped get that solo out of him, thats what good producers do right?

The foundation of "Thriller" can be heard on Quincy Jones' "The Dude", most of the people involved in that album were on "Thriller".

Steve Lukather is the reason why Eddie did it, they've been friends for decades. I've also seen an interview where Randy mentioned liking Lukather's playing, and it's not like Randy did many interviews.

Why was Steve Lukather the reason Eddie did it? That's not the story I've heard told. The story I heard (from EVH and Valerie Bertinelli interviews) is that Valerie and MJ were friends, and MJ said to her that he really wanted Eddie to play on one of his songs. Than some time later, Quincy called Eddie up, at first Eddie thought it was a prank call and hung up on him a couple of times. But he then realized that is was actually him. He was real reluctant to do it, thats why the Valerie/MJ connection was big, because she basically talked Eddie into doing it.

The day of the recording, Eddie showed up at the studio with his guitar, amps, and a 6 pack of beer. He told them that he wanted to change where the solo goes, cause they wanted him to solo over a different section of the song, they agreed with Eddie. He did a few takes, and that was that. He even never recieved any payment for the song, which he would have and should have made some serious royalties for being on that album, imo. The rest is history. If you have a different version, I would love to hear it. But as I've said, this version I have pieced together based upon Eddies and Valeries own words.

[DR DOOM]

MJ never payed Vincent Price for his contribution to Thriller either- talk about six degrees of separation or whatever

[Georgy Zhukov]

I think Diary of a Madman is an improvement, at least musically.

[DR DOOM]

Rhoads was unhappy with it (felt more time to record it like the first album would have been better) but I can't help but agree-I think it beats Blizzard hands down.

Lee Kerslake joined the band late in the piece, the only song they wrote with him on the first album was No Bone Movies- whereas most of Diary has a Kerslake writing credit.

[Sixes]

Rhoads was unhappy with it (felt more time to record it like the first album would have been better) but I can't help but agree-I think it beats Blizzard hands down.

Lee Kerslake joined the band late in the piece, the only song they wrote with him on the first album was No Bone Movies- whereas most of Diary has a Kerslake writing credit.

Blizzard is one of those albums that has become a classic and a benchmark but it's not deserved of those classifications. It's ok, hardly an all time great, which for some reason it's thought of as

[DR DOOM]

I've sort of lost perspective on it TBH, it's like Paranoid or Led Zep 4 where I've heard it a billion times and I'm almost sick of it.

[Sixes]

I've sort of lost perspective on it TBH, it's like Paranoid or Led Zep 4 where I've heard it a billion times and I'm almost sick of it.

those are 2 great examples

i've never understood why people put zep 4 as THE zep album when it's most certainly not...of course, it's got great songs but come on...physical graffitti, presence, the first 3 are all markedly better

paranoid is my least fav ozzy sabs album...and the song paranoid

[moreblack]

I've sort of lost perspective on it TBH, it's like Paranoid or Led Zep 4 where I've heard it a billion times and I'm almost sick of it.

those are 2 great examples

i've never understood why people put zep 4 as THE zep album when it's most certainly not...of course, it's got great songs but come on...physical graffitti, presence, the first 3 are all markedly better

I wouldn't put the first 3 above IV. Those were more like trial runs, and IV is the finished article. But Houses Of The Holy and Physical Graffiti are a band that has finally found itself and what it wants to do going forward.

[Sixes]

I've sort of lost perspective on it TBH, it's like Paranoid or Led Zep 4 where I've heard it a billion times and I'm almost sick of it.

those are 2 great examples

i've never understood why people put zep 4 as THE zep album when it's most certainly not...of course, it's got great songs but come on...physical graffitti, presence, the first 3 are all markedly better

I wouldn't put the first 3 above IV. Those were more like trial runs, and IV is the finished article. But Houses Of The Holy and Physical Graffiti are a band that has finally found itself and what it wants to do going forward.

if not 1 and 3, but 2 is above 4

fuck me, that's like some brilliant math equation right there

plus i despise black dog and rock and roll

Edited March 19, 2014 by Sixes

[DR DOOM]

Funny, out of the first four I would take III

[Georgy Zhukov]

Rhoads was unhappy with it (felt more time to record it like the first album would have been better) but I can't help but agree-I think it beats Blizzard hands down.

Lee Kerslake joined the band late in the piece, the only song they wrote with him on the first album was No Bone Movies- whereas most of Diary has a Kerslake writing credit.

I've listened to outtakes of Dee, not sure if it is much to go on but it seems Randy is a perfectionist and is never happy until he gets it right. But the guitar work was amazing.

[Sixes]

Funny, out of the first four I would take III

Out of the first four, I'd probably go 2, 3, 1, 4

fuck me...now I gotta do em all....

Presence, Physical Graffitti, 2, 3, In Through The Out Door, Houses Of The Holy, 1, 4, Coda

[jmapelian]

Eddie, and it's not even close. Way more influential, unique, and his body of work as a musician is more substantial while still being of high quality for the most part.

Randy is still one of the best ever to pick up a guitar though.

no way dude - blizzard of ozz still beats anything EVH ever did

[DR DOOM]

Bob Daisley has released a snippet of his "holy grail" of Blizzard Of Ozz recordings...http://www.bobdaisley.com/content/blizzard-ozz-and-holy-grail

(note Ozzy's vocal line has since been used in God Is Dead from 13)