five blockbuster albums that bombed

[WFA]

Guns N' Roses – Chinese Democracy (2008)

Total UK sales = 365,899

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/jul/09/robin-thicke-five-blockbuster-albums-that-bombed-jagger-carey-duffy-guns-n-roses-glasvegas

[SoulMonster]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

[Estranged Coma]

Would have been cool if in 2008 he said fuck it give them everything and we got this huge 3 disk set or some shit. Atleast People would be like "damn no wonder it took forever" if only if only

We now believe even more

[Gackt]

There's probably days of instrumentals recorded, just sitting in a hard drive somewhere waiting to be used. Who really knows about vocal tracks.

The good stuff could be released like KISS's Carnival of Souls album, and the band would likely at least break even with the production costs.

Hard to take this article seriously anyway, since they think GnR is hair metal.

[dalsh327]

300K in UK sounds respectable as far as sales go, not sure how that compared to UYI & AFD.

Mariah pulled off the best scam, they paid her NOT to record an album. I don't know how they could say Charmbracelet was her return, she was playing theaters for 20 bucks and couldn't sell them out, the album flopped, but the next tour she had a couple of hits and was selling arenas out.

I wonder why Michael Jackson "Invincible" wasn't on the top 5, they spent double of what GNR spent to make ChiDem. We also know they recouped what was spent to make the album,so when GNR do put another album out, it's pure profit as long as they don't go crazy with the promotional budget, or "what promotional budget, use Twitter and Facebook".

How did Van Halen do when A Different Kind of Truth came out, or Black Sabbath's 13? These were all on the same level of "highly anticipated" releases, ChiDem might have had more years of hype built up around it.

There is one thing Glitter and ChiDem have in common, lack of sales was blamed on situations going on at the time (and you guys remember Axl mentioned this in the chats), ChiDem came out when the stock market took a nosedive, and Glitter came out on Sept. 11, 2001.

[SoulMonster]

There's probably days of instrumentals recorded, just sitting in a hard drive somewhere waiting to be used. Who really knows about vocal tracks.

Hard to say but we know Atlas Shrugged has vocals (otherwise it wouldn't be ready to go in 2008).

[Bards]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

[niceguy]

It's rather sad to hear hear the same tired excuses from Axl worshippers.

Dig it: ChiDem has the BEST of the songs which Axl and his employees created. It's not like Axl released a b-side disc as his Round Two comeback album.

ChiDem is the best that Axl can do on his own. There's no magical vault full of godlike music which "the label" is preventing us from hearing.

[SoulMonster]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

It's not an excuse. Everybody involved from current band members to former band members, additional musicians, managers, engineers, music critics, etc, have confirmed that more songs were made then those on CD. In other words, those 13 MUSD did not only go to the creation of CD. Of course this is only of academic interest if nothing else is ever released, but if something else is released - and that is my premise - then suddenly it won't seem as bad as it does today.

This is simple mathematics. No need to go all forum drama over it.

Edited July 14, 2014 by SoulMonster

[maynard]

13 million for 3 albums still is a ridiculous amount of money, specially if one of them consists of remixes of previous released songs. i have no problem with it, not my money but.... it's too much money.

[Estranged Coma]

I don't really understand why "watever ammount of money is too much to make an album" and why that's the musicians fault (in this case Axl) If someone was giving me endless amount of money I sure as hell wouldn't have denied it. If someone gives you 10 mill to create a project would you deny them and tell them to offer you less ?

[Bards]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

It's not an excuse. Everybody involved from current band members to former band members, additional musicians, managers, engineers, music critics, etc, have confirmed that more songs were made then those on CD. In other words, those 13 MUSD did not only go to the creation of CD. Of course this is only of academic interest if nothing else is ever released, but if something else is released - and that is my premise - then suddenly it won't seem as bad as it does today.

This is simple mathematics. No need to go all forum drama over it.

It's more the idea of "well when you tally up all the millions and spread it over all the albums that don't exist, it's not so bad" point just falls on its face because there's literally nothing tangible to support it.

How many albums have Universal got out of their investment from 1996-present day? 1. That's simple mathematics.

[Gunner55]

Hard to take this article seriously anyway, since they think GnR is hair metal.

Was just gunna say the same thing. You think GNR is hair metal? Your opinions are invalid.

[Apollo]

Hopefully some day Axl will share those other songs with his MILLIONS of fans.

[Guest Gunns]

It's rather sad to hear hear the same tired excuses from Axl worshippers.

Dig it: ChiDem has the BEST of the songs which Axl and his employees created. It's not like Axl released a b-side disc as his Round Two comeback album.

ChiDem is the best that Axl can do on his own. There's no magical vault full of godlike music which "the label" is preventing us from hearing.

This is what NuGNR supporters don't get, Chinese Democracy was the crème of the crop of the material that was created from 97-2008. I read something before that said Chi Dem was more traditional rock (guitars, bass, drums) with alittle electronic influence. And the next record would be half and half, meaning the songs would be more electronic based like NIN. And the 3rd album would be almost all electronic based. I think Axl thought that's where music was headed (and maybe 10 years from now it will be) but for now its not. If another album gets released it will solidify his departure from the AFD/ UYI Guns N Roses and also the departure of the majority of his fan base...

I always cop some flack for saying this but fuck it, there is no reason to think that CD was the 'creme of the crop'. Axl already had the best buy deal done and more than half the songs on the final release, already leaked before hand. Why not just use those songs that leaked, and put them officially out to the masses, and not waste any new songs in the release. A large portion of the general public didn't even hear the leaks, most of them were listening to fresh songs when the album released. It is completely logical Axl would release an album with material that leaked years prior to the minority, as he already spent so much time on those songs, why just disregard them and use up more of his 'song stock' just because a few people leaked and downloaded them.

I firmly believe "the best is yet to come", well that quote is what Pitman told me too my face 4 years ago backstage at the Adelaide concert. So time will tell.

[wasted]

Atlas Shrugged - Zutaut called it a glam Nov Rain would make a great first single.

Doesn't sound like filler.

I think CD II will be more erratic like UYI. Silkworms then an Izzy song, The General is the most metal thing Axl has done. Soul Monster is a black sabbath riff.

So not as commercial but maybe more GNR in spirit.

There might be less Elton influence. I wonder if the other Beltrami arrangements are more cinematic and less Queen.

If Dj writes a commercial hit for CD II you could imagine it selling the same as CD.

All speculation but there's no need to be so negative. CD was disaster it still sold pretty well.

[RichardNixon]

I've always loved Chinese Democracy. I don't give a damn what any naysayer says. Five years on the band is standing by the album and still playing the material live, too.

[maynard]

I've always loved Chinese Democracy. I don't give a damn what any naysayer says. Five years on the band is standing by the album and still playing the material live, too.

It must be sad to consider everyone who disagrees with you or has a different taste a naysayer. The band is playing less and less CD material over the years. Hard to call that standing by it.

[wasted]

I've always loved Chinese Democracy. I don't give a damn what any naysayer says. Five years on the band is standing by the album and still playing the material live, too.

I didn't mean it was a disaster of a record, just the release didn't have much conviction to it with no videos or the band even being on the road. but once they got on the road in 09-11 it kind of came into it's own and 5-6 songs have become pretty staple. And it sold decent worldwide.

Edited July 15, 2014 by wasted

[SoulMonster]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

It's not an excuse. Everybody involved from current band members to former band members, additional musicians, managers, engineers, music critics, etc, have confirmed that more songs were made then those on CD. In other words, those 13 MUSD did not only go to the creation of CD. Of course this is only of academic interest if nothing else is ever released, but if something else is released - and that is my premise - then suddenly it won't seem as bad as it does today.

This is simple mathematics. No need to go all forum drama over it.

It's more the idea of "well when you tally up all the millions and spread it over all the albums that don't exist, it's not so bad" point just falls on its face because there's literally nothing tangible to support it.

Nothing tangible as in something you can hold in your hands right now, right, but that doesn't mean that money wasn't spent on creating more music and WHEN this is released the cost per released song will drop. Is this really so hard to understand? If we are going to talk about what those 13 MUSD went to then the correct answer would be: "one released record and more material that is yet unreleased", which is a very different answer than "one record".

This is what NuGNR supporters don't get, Chinese Democracy was the crème of the crop of the material that was created from 97-2008.

Why do you think so? I mean, since this is something people don't get I suppose it is easy for you to explain why it must be so. And keep in mind that we have lots of quotes from band members and people involved who named other songs as the best songs from the CD sessions.

[Guest Gunns]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

It's not an excuse. Everybody involved from current band members to former band members, additional musicians, managers, engineers, music critics, etc, have confirmed that more songs were made then those on CD. In other words, those 13 MUSD did not only go to the creation of CD. Of course this is only of academic interest if nothing else is ever released, but if something else is released - and that is my premise - then suddenly it won't seem as bad as it does today.

This is simple mathematics. No need to go all forum drama over it.

It's more the idea of "well when you tally up all the millions and spread it over all the albums that don't exist, it's not so bad" point just falls on its face because there's literally nothing tangible to support it.

Nothing tangible as in something you can hold in your hands right now, right, but that doesn't mean that money wasn't spent on creating more music and WHEN this is released the cost per released song will drop. Is this really so hard to understand? If we are going to talk about what those 13 MUSD went to then the correct answer would be: "one released record and more material that is yet unreleased", which is a very different answer than "one record".

This is what NuGNR supporters don't get, Chinese Democracy was the crème of the crop of the material that was created from 97-2008.

Why do you think so? I mean, since this is something people don't get I suppose it is easy for you to explain why it must be so. And keep in mind that we have lots of quotes from band members and people involved who named other songs as the best songs from the CD sessions.

Pitman told me himself in person back in 2010 that "the best is yet to come". I take his word over someone who has no idea on a gnr forum.

[Smokin' Cigarettes]

CD is a 'good' sophisticated album for hardcore fans with no radio hits.

I never once thought GN'R was/is going to take the world over again. If you thought/think differently, you're blinded by your infatuation with Axl.

Music had done changed so much since GN'R was relevant so there was no market for new material.

[SoulMonster]

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

People have been clinging to that flimsy excuse for six years now. You can only judge what you have, not hypothetics.

It's not an excuse. Everybody involved from current band members to former band members, additional musicians, managers, engineers, music critics, etc, have confirmed that more songs were made then those on CD. In other words, those 13 MUSD did not only go to the creation of CD. Of course this is only of academic interest if nothing else is ever released, but if something else is released - and that is my premise - then suddenly it won't seem as bad as it does today.

This is simple mathematics. No need to go all forum drama over it.

It's more the idea of "well when you tally up all the millions and spread it over all the albums that don't exist, it's not so bad" point just falls on its face because there's literally nothing tangible to support it.

Nothing tangible as in something you can hold in your hands right now, right, but that doesn't mean that money wasn't spent on creating more music and WHEN this is released the cost per released song will drop. Is this really so hard to understand? If we are going to talk about what those 13 MUSD went to then the correct answer would be: "one released record and more material that is yet unreleased", which is a very different answer than "one record".

This is what NuGNR supporters don't get, Chinese Democracy was the crème of the crop of the material that was created from 97-2008.

Why do you think so? I mean, since this is something people don't get I suppose it is easy for you to explain why it must be so. And keep in mind that we have lots of quotes from band members and people involved who named other songs as the best songs from the CD sessions.

Pitman told me himself in person back in 2010 that "the best is yet to come". I take his word over someone who has no idea on a gnr forum.

Axl has said so, too (and whatever else I might think of Axl I don't think he lies about this). But many other people, including Marco Beltrami, Jeff Leeds from Sp1at, Sebastian Bach, Bumblefoot, Tom Zutaut, Brain and Richard Fortus have explicitly or implicitly stated that great songs have been saved for the follow-up(s) to CD.

[magisme]

Personally - and, like everyone else on either side, I have zero real evidence to back up my opinion on the subject - I think the idea that the best is yet to come is complete looney tunes.

[Crash Diet]

Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal

Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal

Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal

WATICAN

Much like in Duffy's case, Guns N' Roses' sales of Chinese Democracy were the kind that an average band in 2014 would welcome, but the problem with this release was how much money it had taken to create it in the 17 years since GNR had last released original material (1991’s indulgent Use Your Illusion I and II). The studio spend has been estimated at $13m, so the album was never going to recoup. All original members of the band had long been eviscerated as singer Axl Rose became the all-powerful Kim Jong-il of hair metal. Replacement members joined and left with rapidity, while the album seemingly came no closer to completion. The band sporadically played shows to road-test material, but soon retreated to their studio bunker, hinting at release dates and then cancelling them. In the time they had been locked away, grunge, Britpop, nu-metal, drum'n'bass, speed garage, grime and TV talent-show pop had all come and (for the most part) gone, meaning the “most dangerous band in the world” had become the most unheeded band in the world.

It's unfortunate that media tend to think that all that was created during the CD sessions are the songs found on CD. If the band releases more of the material created, with presumably modest costs, then the price per song released will be completely different than it is today. So far 13 MUSD has been spent on one record released, but it could quickly be 13 MUSD spent on three records (CD, its follow-up and a remix album), which is not that bad.

LOL

Overproducing and lazyness cost 13M. Overproducing ruined most of the songs...

Not that bad?

I think if Axl released 5 records it's still bad. waaay bad

Edited July 15, 2014 by Crash Diet