Major League Baseball Thread - 2018 Season

[Apollo]

When did Atlanta fans turn stupid?

Most of them are killing this trade.

Closers are always a bit overrated. And a rebuilding team doesn't need an elite closer.

So they traded one asset and most importantly Upton who has one of the worst contracts in baseball and received the Padres top pitching prospect, another solid prospect, depth for their mlb roster and a 2nd round draft pick.

Getting rid of Uptons contract was worth this trade.

The braves made out like bandits.

And the Padres got an elite closer.

Great trade for both teams.

[axlslash]

Keeping Bryant down is justifiable due to the MLB rules. The cubs are just playing by what's in place. It's the right call for long term health of the franchise, he'll be back up by May. Boras clients tend to test free agency anyway. This isn't the first time this has happened and players tend to work out deals when it does

Going back to predictions, Isnt it just way too hard to pick the actual world series winner? Picking who gets into the playoffs isnt as bad, but baseball more than most sports seems to have the most random playoffs. Wildcards win regularly. I'm all for it- it keeps more fanbases engaged longer.

So you think it's OK for a major league franchise to not put it's best team on the field? As a paying fan, you'd be happy with that?

And how is it the right call for the long term health of the franchise if this move causes Bryant to not sign a long term deal with the club? Or if they go 5-7 without him, Bryant comes up and wins rookie of the year and the cubs end up finishing 90-72 and one game out of the playoffs? What if Bryant gets beaned by some 20-year-old kid in the minors who hasn't learned how to harness his 99 mph fast ball yet? What if Bryant finishes one home run and two RBI's short of breaking the all time rookie record for those categories? You think he's going to be "happy" that the Cubs forced him to miss 12-13 games because of financial reasons? You think that's going to make him want to sign an extension with the club? What about other teammates, you think they are going to be happy with the way the Cubs are handling this?

Yes, I understand why the Cubs are doing it. And many teams have done it.

But when a guy is literally the MVP of spring training. He his 9 homers in 14 games. If he did this in the regular season it would be the greatest season in the history of sports:

424 avg, 102 homers, 175 RBI.

No player in the history of MLB baseball has "earned" a spot on the opening day roster more than Bryant did this spring.

This move is 100% a financial move.

Players performance on the FIELD should be what determines where a guy ends up. Not his salary or contract situation. Moves should be made that give the Cubs the best chance to WIN games this year, not five years from now. What if Bryant is a bust or gets a career ending injury - then that extra year isn't going to mean much.

********

BT88 -

So pro athletes often have incentives written into their contracts.

If Clayton Kershaw gets a million dollar bonus if he strikes out 200 batters this year, and during the fourth inning of his last start he picks up strike out number 199.....you'd say the Dodgers were doing the right thing if they pulled him out of the game before he could get that 200th million dollar strike out? Because saving that million bucks is certainly more beneficial to the team than Kershaw getting 2-3 more strike outs for the season.

Integrity of the actual game.

Purposely not playing your best players.........where is the integrity of the game in that?

Come on Apollo the guy will be down at AAA for all of 12 days I doubt this will have a huge impact on the Cubbies chances of winning the pennant.

It is a business and as BT88 stated if this kid ends up being a legit star Boras will take him Free Agency anyway if the Cubs don't lock him up long term before FA.

Sports is a business now and if the team gets to save a year of eligibility it makes perfect business sense.

BTW the kid put up monster numbers in the minors and most likely will be a star but you should know better than to base your decision on spring numbers as they mean very little once the season starts. How many rookies have been superstars in the spring only to fall flat on their faces once the season starts?

Ask the Mariners last year how big of a difference one game in a season is. Much less 10 games.

It's cool. You guys side with owners. I believe an owner should put forth the best team that gives the team the best chance to win. The players and fans deserve that. Why have spring training and keep stats if performance means nothing?

Can anybody say that Bryant didn't earn a spot on the team this year? Exactly.

And anybody can be a bust. Spring training doesn't dictate a career. But when you are named as the number one or two prospect in ALL of baseball, you tore up the minors last year, and you are the MVP of spring this year......odds are in your favor.

The Cubs front office is planning for the long term. They are trading two weeks of rookie Bryant for a year Bryant in his prime. I see nothing wrong with that. The Cubs do not have a world series caliber team this year. They will in 5-6 years. It is plainly correct to hold Bryant for two weeks to keep him when the team could be building a dynasty.

For the record, I'm a Cubs fan and anything but pro-owners. But I think this is common sense given the system in place.

[downzy]

AL EAST: Toronto (yeah, that's right)

AL CENTRAL: Chicago

AL WEST: Anaheim

WILDCARD: Seattle over Cleveland

NL EAST: Washington

NL CENTRAL: Pittsburgh

NL WEST: Dodgers

WILDCARD: San Diego over St. Louis

I'll leave playoff predictions when they begin.

[bt88]

I love the Kimbrel deal as well. All the baseball minds I read seem to like it too. Where are the people killing this trade? The Braves farm system was a trainwreck as recent as last year now they're packing it.

So far today nothing crazy has happened. A Rod did get more cheers than boos it seems

[Apollo]

Axlslash why risk pissing off your potential best player and his agent, potentially ruining your chance to sign him to a long term deal?

And why give Lester all that money if they aren't going to content for a World Series for five more years?

So the cubs aren't trying to win this year? Isn't that disappointing as a fan? Why fork down 100 bucks for a ticket if you know your team isn't putting it's best team on the field - specifically for financial reasons?

So the message you send to future players is that spring training is absolutely meaningless. Your future depends on salary, and not on your spring training performance.

You guys side with the owners and the corporate aspect of the game. I'm on the players side. Let the players performance decide whether or not he plays - not his contract situation.

No biggie fellas. We just look at the beauty and integrity of the game from different perspectives.

I love the Kimbrel deal as well. All the baseball minds I read seem to like it too. Where are the people killing this trade? The Braves farm system was a trainwreck as recent as last year now they're packing it.

So far today nothing crazy has happened. A Rod did get more cheers than boos it seems

Last night on Espn and yahoo. It was prob 8-1 opposing the deal.

So is tanaka still hurt from last year or was this jut a bad outing

[classicrawker]

Axlslash why risk pissing off your potential best player and his agent, potentially ruining your chance to sign him to a long term deal?

And why give Lester all that money if they aren't going to content for a World Series for five more years?

So the cubs aren't trying to win this year? Isn't that disappointing as a fan? Why fork down 100 bucks for a ticket if you know your team isn't putting it's best team on the field - specifically for financial reasons?

So the message you send to future players is that spring training is absolutely meaningless. Your future depends on salary, and not on your spring training performance.

You guys side with the owners and the corporate aspect of the game. I'm on the players side. Let the players performance decide whether or not he plays - not his contract situation.

No biggie fellas. We just look at the beauty and integrity of the game from different perspectives.

I love the Kimbrel deal as well. All the baseball minds I read seem to like it too. Where are the people killing this trade? The Braves farm system was a trainwreck as recent as last year now they're packing it.

So far today nothing crazy has happened. A Rod did get more cheers than boos it seems

Last night on Espn and yahoo. It was prob 8-1 opposing the deal.

So is tanaka still hurt from last year or was this jut a bad outing

You are projecting Apollo as nobody said they side with the owners just that we understand baseball is a business so we accept the reality of why the Cubbies did what they did and it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

This is not fantasy baseball my friend and you are being naïve if you think this pisses off either Bryant or Boras. If Bryant is as good as everyone thinks Boras will be taking him FA when the time comes because that is what he does for his clients.

And I find it hard to believe that Bryant is going to hold this against the Cubbies when it comes time for his FAgency. He is ore likely to get pissed if they fight him when he is arbitration eligible.

Baseball decision are about the money. They are always about the money.

So Yankee opener was about what I expected. Lack of offense, Tanaka struggled with his reduced velocity fastball in the cold NYC weather and their bullpen was stellar.

I expect the offense to pickup, as I think they have some quality hitters, but if Tanaka and Sabathia, who did not look good this spring, can't win with reduced velocity it will be a very long season.

Hopefully when things warm up so do Tanaka and Sabathia to keep the Yanks competitive.

If they can stay close early on they can make it interesting if they stay relatively healthy which is a big if.

[bt88]

Yeah I too have to take umbrage with being accused of "siding with owners." It's not the black and white issue you're making it out to be. I side with the cubs decision in this specific case. I did not side with the owners on say, The Strasburg Decision. Every issue has it's own nuances and i highly doubt anyone here would always come out on the same side of an issue every single time.

Tanaka opted for rest over surgery and it may bite him. That said, it's opening day so who really knows. The Yanks weren't projected to be that good but to Cashman's credit he did get some decent pieces in the farm system at least. Yanks fans are one of those fanbases that are conditioned to want to win every year and it just can't work that way.

Edited April 6, 2015 by bt88

[classicrawker]

Yeah I too have to take umbrage with being accused of "siding with owners." It's not the black and white issue you're making it out to be. I side with the cubs decision in this specific case. I did not side with the owners on say, The Strasburg Decision. Every issue has it's own nuances and i highly doubt anyone here would always come out on the same side of an issue every single time. its reductionist, narrow, dismissive and kinda condescending to try to explain away why someone disagrees with you.

Tanaka opted for rest over surgery and it may bite him. That said, it's opening day so who really knows. The Yanks weren't projected to be that good but to Cashman's credit he did get some decent pieces in the farm system at least. Yanks fans are one of those fanbases that are conditioned to want to win every year and it just can't work that way.

Yeah JMO but I think Tanaka should have opted for the surgery. He would have missed half of last season and likely missed most if not all of this season but might have gotten in some rehab by the end of the year and would have been ready to come back full strength next year. We will see if he comes around when the weather warms up.

IMHO the Yankees have enough talent to contend if everyone stays healthy and has comeback years They could have a decent pitching staff and if some of the hitters have typical seasons they can score runs. The do have one of the best bullpens in MLB baseball and as Kansas City shows you can go pretty far with average SP and an dominating bullpen.

I agree Yankees fans are spoiled and expect to win every year. Personally I wish they would/could bite the bullet and just rebuild for a few years. I like the moves Cashman made to get more youthful and they do have some talent in the minors which should be ready alter this year and into next. Personally I am glad they did not spend crazy money this year on players on the wrong side of 30 yrs old. Hopefully Hal Steinbrenner will stay the course and allow them to rebuild and not spend on FA's.

[Apollo]

You guys are defending a move made by the owners that isn't based on helping the team win right now. They are sacrificing wins today for something that will happen five years from now.

Ownership isn't putting the best Cubs team on the field. As a fan that should piss you off. Ask Seattle Mariners fans if one early season game is important.

No need to get mad about it, boys. I just hope that you guys don't miss out on the playoffs by one or two games, Bryant doesn't get hurt in the minors, Bryant remembers this and doesn't resign with the Cubs, other players see what they did and choose not to play for the Cubs.

Yes. I understand why the cubs did it. I also see the amazing amount of positive sentiment it would have been to the fans and players if the Cubs would have went the opposite route and said Bryant gives them the best chance to win - and that's why they are in business.

So if early season wins don't matter and they won't contend for 4-5 years......why bring Bryant up at all? Why not just play scrubs all year to get a better draft pick?

[Apollo]

Some teams play to win every year. Some are always playing for the future.

[ronaldo9]

Fun opening day game to watch. Cueto dominant as always, Frazier with the go-ahead home run in the eighth, and Chapman blowing away batters in the ninth. I feel pretty good about the Reds chances this year if Cueto can start all 162 games...the back-end of the rotation really worries me.

[bran]

Yeah I too have to take umbrage with being accused of "siding with owners." It's not the black and white issue you're making it out to be. I side with the cubs decision in this specific case. I did not side with the owners on say, The Strasburg Decision. Every issue has it's own nuances and i highly doubt anyone here would always come out on the same side of an issue every single time. its reductionist, narrow, dismissive and kinda condescending to try to explain away why someone disagrees with you.

Tanaka opted for rest over surgery and it may bite him. That said, it's opening day so who really knows. The Yanks weren't projected to be that good but to Cashman's credit he did get some decent pieces in the farm system at least. Yanks fans are one of those fanbases that are conditioned to want to win every year and it just can't work that way.

Yeah JMO but I think Tanaka should have opted for the surgery. He would have missed half of last season and likely missed most if not all of this season but might have gotten in some rehab by the end of the year and would have been ready to come back full strength next year. We will see if he comes around when the weather warms up.

IMHO the Yankees have enough talent to contend if everyone stays healthy and has comeback years They could have a decent pitching staff and if some of the hitters have typical seasons they can score runs. The do have one of the best bullpens in MLB baseball and as Kansas City shows you can go pretty far with average SP and an dominating bullpen.

I agree Yankees fans are spoiled and expect to win every year. Personally I wish they would/could bite the bullet and just rebuild for a few years. I like the moves Cashman made to get more youthful and they do have some talent in the minors which should be ready alter this year and into next. Personally I am glad they did not spend crazy money this year on players on the wrong side of 30 yrs old. Hopefully Hal Steinbrenner will stay the course and allow them to rebuild and not spend on FA's.

they should have rebuilt after 2009

[bt88]

So, there is not a ton of merit in analyzing opening day trends since we know it's a long season, however there are a few things to takeaway. it's good to look at guys coming off injuries or in unsettled situations. for example, Gregerson held down a save in Houston and that was an unstable bullpen. It seems as if he's on a short leash. The biggest takeaway for me was 2 HRs from Dustin Pedroia. His power was absent last year so for him to be showing it this early is huge. That line up drastically changes when the guy in the 2 spot hits 20 bombs.

Also, anyone do fantasy? I'm in a 12 team roto league and a 12 team H2H points league with auction draft. It's true what they say, once you go auction you never wanna go back to standard draft. Keeper leagues too, so it rewards the long game. For example someone actually drafted Lucas Giolito. To me fantasy baseball and hockey are far superior to fantasy football. It rewards you for paying attention to trends, monitoring the waiver wire, making trades, etc. Football is more random to me. One guy gets hurt and you're done. Anyone else agree?

[axlslash]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

[classicrawker]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

[downzy]

Stupid day off. Wish they had made the break between the games at the end of NY-Toronto series. Don't see the point of having it the day after the first day. Dumb.

[classicrawker]

Stupid day off. Wish they had made the break between the games at the end of NY-Toronto series. Don't see the point of having it the day after the first day. Dumb.

They seem to do this every year for some reason and I agree it is dumb.

[downzy]

I get why they do it, to ensure that the series gets played in case of a rain out. But not sure why they can't tack the extra game later in the schedule. At the very least, have the day off at the end of the season, so if they play all three games, the visiting team gets a day to travel.

[axlslash]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

Oh, no question that Spring Training stats aren't a guarantee. All I'm saying is that sending Bryant down for the first 12 days isn't the same as saying that Spring Training is meaningless. It's the way you make the team. Period. But it doesn't mean you make it right out of training if there are other factors at play.

[classicrawker]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

Oh, no question that Spring Training stats aren't a guarantee. All I'm saying is that sending Bryant down for the first 12 days isn't the same as saying that Spring Training is meaningless. It's the way you make the team. Period. But it doesn't mean you make it right out of training if there are other factors at play.

Fair enough I see where you're coming from. Yeah Spring Training is how rookies make a team and Bryant will be back in a few weeks. Even if they don't win this year it is an exciting time to be a Cubbies fan!

[Apollo]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

Oh, no question that Spring Training stats aren't a guarantee. All I'm saying is that sending Bryant down for the first 12 days isn't the same as saying that Spring Training is meaningless. It's the way you make the team. Period. But it doesn't mean you make it right out of training if there are other factors at play.

No need for us to continue beating a dead horse.

You guys are corporate/owners guys - I'm a players, let's try and win guy. You say that classification offends you - but your agreeing with a decision that is solely based on MONEY and not on putting your best team on the field. Holy shit - what would you call that? There is a reason the player's union was furious with this move.

You guys agree with the product on the field being dictated by contracts and salaries. I am a proponent of letting the players performance on the field dictate who plays. Not their contract.

And spring training is a bit of a joke if you tell a player "Dude, I don't care if you hit 40 home runs in your 50 spring training at bats. You will NOT make the team. For two weeks, anyway, then you'll make the team."

Some teams try and win - every year. And they worry about five years down the road.......four years down the road.

Other teams "want" to win every year - but they are always talking about "well, you just wait until you see us three years from now. We're gonna be really good in 2018."

What kind of message would the Cubs have sent their fans, players and future free agents if they would have said "F*ck that extra year, we want to win this year starting on opening day. We are playing for the world series in 2015, not 2019."

If I was a die-hard fan or player of that team, I'd be much happier and excited with that outlook rather than "Well, Bryant was the MVP of all of spring training - but we're not going to put him on the opening day roster because of financial reasons five years from now."

YES - they kept him down for "other reasons" and not because of his play on the field. I'm shocked that a sport's fan would be OK with that.

******

Also, Classic, you keep talking about how spring training stats mean nothing once the season starts.

For real, dude?

Then why bring Bryant up in 12 days? If spring training stats mean nothing, and the Cubs aren't going to win the Series this year, and we don't even know if Bryant will be a star (Number 1 or 2 ranked prospect in ALL of baseball, tore up the minors last year, tore up spring training this year) - then why would the Cubs bring him up in two weeks???? Why not let him get another year of seasoning in the minor leagues?

[classicrawker]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

Oh, no question that Spring Training stats aren't a guarantee. All I'm saying is that sending Bryant down for the first 12 days isn't the same as saying that Spring Training is meaningless. It's the way you make the team. Period. But it doesn't mean you make it right out of training if there are other factors at play.

No need for us to continue beating a dead horse.

You guys are corporate/owners guys - I'm a players, let's try and win guy. You say that classification offends you - but your agreeing with a decision that is solely based on MONEY and not on putting your best team on the field. Holy shit - what would you call that? There is a reason the player's union was furious with this move.

You guys agree with the product on the field being dictated by contracts and salaries. I am a proponent of letting the players performance on the field dictate who plays. Not their contract.

And spring training is a bit of a joke if you tell a player "Dude, I don't care if you hit 40 home runs in your 50 spring training at bats. You will NOT make the team. For two weeks, anyway, then you'll make the team."

Some teams try and win - every year. And they worry about five years down the road.......four years down the road.

Other teams "want" to win every year - but they are always talking about "well, you just wait until you see us three years from now. We're gonna be really good in 2018."

What kind of message would the Cubs have sent their fans, players and future free agents if they would have said "F*ck that extra year, we want to win this year starting on opening day. We are playing for the world series in 2015, not 2019."

If I was a die-hard fan or player of that team, I'd be much happier and excited with that outlook rather than "Well, Bryant was the MVP of all of spring training - but we're not going to put him on the opening day roster because of financial reasons five years from now."

YES - they kept him down for "other reasons" and not because of his play on the field. I'm shocked that a sport's fan would be OK with that.

******

Also, Classic, you keep talking about how spring training stats mean nothing once the season starts.

For real, dude?

Then why bring Bryant up in 12 days? If spring training stats mean nothing, and the Cubs aren't going to win the Series this year, and we don't even know if Bryant will be a star (Number 1 or 2 ranked prospect in ALL of baseball, tore up the minors last year, tore up spring training this year) - then why would the Cubs bring him up in two weeks???? Why not let him get another year of seasoning in the minor leagues?

Apollo I know you like to push buttons just for the sake of arguing but I ain't biting. So go on continuing to believe myself and others are Team/ owners supporters if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Teams use spring training stats to make decisions on who to bring north to fill the few open positions on their rosters but once the season start those stats mean nothing as they are inflated by pitchers getting into shape, working on new pitches and against minor leaguer pitchers in many cases. My point is spring training stats do not mean a players success will carry on into the season as players are now facing MLB pitchers who are challenging them with their best stuff. If I really cared that much I would go figure out who he hit his 9 dingers against but I doubt most were against pitchers going north.

You are were a coach so I am surprised I have to explain this to you.

[bt88]

I will indeed be sure to raise this issue it at my next afternoon coffee meeting with Theo Epstein. Us "corporate owners guys" need to meet and make sure the business is in line and we're not trying to win right now, because 2 weeks obviously dictates an entire season and organizational philosophy. Also I'll have to be sure to skirt around all the fans protesting at Wrigley about this. You know, all 2 Cubs fans who are mad about it. Terry from Schaumburg was PISSED! All those season ticket refunds that had to be given because of it too. Really had an effect IMO.

Getting back to real baseball discussion, is Lance Lynn one of the most underrated pitchers in the game? I'm not overreacting to his start today but it did remind me that he had great peripheral stats last year. Very undervalued.

Edited April 8, 2015 by bt88

[axlslash]

Bryant will still be up before our bleachers open..;.

Spring training isn't meaningless. He earned a spot on the team as soon as possible, not next year or in September or even after the break. He earned a big league spot. Delaying the call-up won't change that.

I never said that I think the Cubs won't contend for another 5 years. In fact, I said that they could well be working on a dynasty at that point. But this season isn't the year that starts. I think we'll vie for wild card placement this year and likely fall just short. It will be a huge step in the right direction and set us up to do big things in the next couple of years, but the pieces just aren't all in place.

This isn't about salary, it's about keeping Bryant in Chicago. Isn't keeping your best players part of putting the best team on the field? And since you brought up his agent, Scott Boras has a history of taking his superstar clients into free agency and spurning their old teams. This isn't a question of how much he'll cost after his deal is up, it's a question of whether Boras would even hear offers. Albert Pujols left the Cardinals - a perennial playoff team - after publicly decrying players who put cash over loyalty. I want to see the best team on the field now, but I will want to see the best team on the field in 2021 and 2022 as well, and this is the best way to do that for the long term without losing Bryant.

And let me just laugh incessantly at your contention that you're "on the side of the players" while I'm "on the side of the owners." My dream job would be leading the MLBPA's legal team. So yeah, nice try. But let's keep the hyperbole and ad homenim jabs for political threads and stick the baseball facts

I agree with everything you said except the value of spring training stats. While they can help in determining who should make a team they are completely worthless once the season starts.

In spring training you are not seeing pitchers at their best, either working themselves into shape or working on specific pitches, and in many cases you will be facing pitchers who have no shot at pitching in the majors that year.

JMO but I have seen more than one spring training Babe Ruth completely fall on their faces once the regular season starts and they face ML pitching.

He is an exciting talent and I don't disagree Bryant deserved to make the team, and unless something happens during his 12 day exile he will be back up with the Cubs, but lets not get too excited until we see him deal with ML pitchers on a regular basis.

Oh, no question that Spring Training stats aren't a guarantee. All I'm saying is that sending Bryant down for the first 12 days isn't the same as saying that Spring Training is meaningless. It's the way you make the team. Period. But it doesn't mean you make it right out of training if there are other factors at play.

No need for us to continue beating a dead horse.

You guys are corporate/owners guys - I'm a players, let's try and win guy. You say that classification offends you - but your agreeing with a decision that is solely based on MONEY and not on putting your best team on the field. Holy shit - what would you call that? There is a reason the player's union was furious with this move.

You guys agree with the product on the field being dictated by contracts and salaries. I am a proponent of letting the players performance on the field dictate who plays. Not their contract.

And spring training is a bit of a joke if you tell a player "Dude, I don't care if you hit 40 home runs in your 50 spring training at bats. You will NOT make the team. For two weeks, anyway, then you'll make the team."

Some teams try and win - every year. And they worry about five years down the road.......four years down the road.

Other teams "want" to win every year - but they are always talking about "well, you just wait until you see us three years from now. We're gonna be really good in 2018."

What kind of message would the Cubs have sent their fans, players and future free agents if they would have said "F*ck that extra year, we want to win this year starting on opening day. We are playing for the world series in 2015, not 2019."

If I was a die-hard fan or player of that team, I'd be much happier and excited with that outlook rather than "Well, Bryant was the MVP of all of spring training - but we're not going to put him on the opening day roster because of financial reasons five years from now."

YES - they kept him down for "other reasons" and not because of his play on the field. I'm shocked that a sport's fan would be OK with that.

******

Also, Classic, you keep talking about how spring training stats mean nothing once the season starts.

For real, dude?

Then why bring Bryant up in 12 days? If spring training stats mean nothing, and the Cubs aren't going to win the Series this year, and we don't even know if Bryant will be a star (Number 1 or 2 ranked prospect in ALL of baseball, tore up the minors last year, tore up spring training this year) - then why would the Cubs bring him up in two weeks???? Why not let him get another year of seasoning in the minor leagues?

The number of times you responded to straw men that I explicitly never said is staggering. You're certainly right, though. No sense beating a dead horse, especially when you aren't even looking at the horse I'm talking about.

[Apollo]

Axlsold, i'm not just responding to YOU - I'm responding to 3-4 different posters in here that are making basically the same claim. So the strawman thing is just silly. You don't agree with my point, I don't agree with yours. It's called a difference of opinion.

You guys are owner/company guys, I'm a players guy.

You guys think it's OK to sacrifice wins this year in the hopes of winning five years down the road. I prefer teams that try and win every year.

I prefer that a player's performance on the FIELD dictate his career and the team's performance - you guys don't mind a contract situation dictating what happens on the field.

I will never understand or agree with that line of thought.

I will let you guys get the last word in, insult me all you want, etc. Feel free to take your final shots!

*********************

What do you all think about the crazy interleague play schedule now?

At first I liked interleague play, it was a cool novelty, added some extra excitement to the game.

But I was shocked to see that Boston and Philly are opening the season playing each other? Interleague play is now so prevalent that teams do it opening day?

The odd thing and what separates it from other sports is that the two leagues play by DIFFERENT RULES.

I think there used to be a mystique about the world series being between two teams that hadn't played each other all season. I liked that MLB did that differently than other sports.

What do you guys think of it? Are you cool with it happening all throughout the season instead of just a week or two? Are you cool with it happening on opening day now? And do you think if there is going to be so much interleague play that the rules need to be aligned for the entire season? You make up your roster differently if you use a DH 162 games a year compared to just 30 games a year (or whatever the number is for interleague).

And how about that Adrian Gonzales!!!!!!!!!!!!