yes this is a reunion thread.

[magisme]

And let's not forget how Axl and his followers like to play both sides on this one. On the one hand, Axl put out CD when he was ready. On the other hand, the label rejected the album when Axl said it was ready years earlier. Uh.......?

[DR DOOM]

Bucket left in 2004

It was announced he had left in 04, but (correct me if I'm wrong) after the cancelled tour in 02 he just never returned and IIRC nothing happened studio wise in that time either.

So all that stuff was between him joining and leaving in around 2 years.

All that Chinese Democracy stuff sounded way better in the live versions from those Bucket era shows than what ended up on the album too.

[DieselDaisy]

Listen, 'selling out', definition of,

- Played greatest hits/best of setlists to appeal to laymen

- playing the same setlist

- not releasing new material

- playing Vegas

- doing commercials for cash

- releasing music specifically designed to appeal to the largest denominator.

Axl is guilty of at least, five of those, the first five.

I think Dylan did that first one in Asia. Compare that to his US sets recently. He's playing the same set list right now in the US tour.

This is Dylan's last setlist. It contains only 3-5 bona fide 'greatest hits' from a potential 22.

1. Things Have Changed
2. She Belongs to Me
3. Beyond Here Lies Nothin'
4. Workingman's Blues #2
5. Duquesne Whistle
6. Waiting for You
7. Pay in Blood
8. Tangled Up in Blue
9. Love Sick
11. High Water (For Charley Patton)
12. Simple Twist of Fate
13. Early Roman Kings
14. Forgetful Heart
15. Spirit on the Water
16. Scarlet Town
17. Soon After Midnight
18. Long and Wasted Years
19. Autumn Leaves
    (Yves Montand cover)
20. Encore:
21. Blowin' in the Wind
22. Stay With Me

Edited May 24, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[Słash]

Bucket left in 2004

It was announced he had left in 04, but (correct me if I'm wrong) after the cancelled tour in 02 he just never returned and IIRC nothing happened studio wise in that time either.

So all that stuff was between him joining and leaving in around 2 years.

All that Chinese Democracy stuff sounded way better in the live versions from those Bucket era shows than what ended up on the album too.

Im not sure, I know bucket did disappear after the 02 cancelled tour, I assume Buckets solo on Better would be some random instrumental which he rerorded before and then it was later added to Better, I know there were many instrumentals recorded and Axl has a right to use them anywhere

[wasted]

I suppose he might talk about art and then play Vegas.

Thats the point though, he never espoused artistic ideals to the point of like, some kind of martyr for the idea of art, he was never anti-commerce, they were always bold and brazen about the fact that they wanted to make dumploads of cash, just The Beatles were...and fair play to em.

The guy was doing adverts for Raw magazine, actual tv spots, mass corporate sponsorship, he was never no 'it's just about the art!' type kiddie, no, he was looking to get paid and paid handsomely. He's not really of that other category.

It's true his quote about it was more that people in the position to do so should pursue art. You don't get huge and famous by accident.

But I guess going into CD he wasn't going to just put out something he wasn't happy with it. Not just put out a frisbee so you can tour. They were in a unique position that very few bands have ever been in. So he wanted to use that position a bit like U2 do in away. Maybe even abuse it.

But that's where the idea comes from that Axl wants to be an artist and make statements and get rid of the old band to do it. But then he ends up a nostalgia Vegas act.

I think he kind of wants to be an artist and make a buck. Difference between Axl and Slash say is Axl has more of something to say. He cares more about issues. On Shacklers he's still defending himself from when Brownstone was implicated in a school shooting.

So I think he's not a sell out at all. Or at least there's a time for art and time for a good time. Are The Stones sell outs because they turned into capitalist touring machine. Did Dylan sell out his idealism for a buck etc etc.

If Dylan can do stuff for money I'm sure Axl can too.

Axl has more to say than Slash?

How do you come to that conclusion?

One album and a handful if interviews in the last 20 years would disagree with you.

Axl writes lyrics and considers these important. So that slows him down a bit. Slash just wants to play.

You are right, for the most part.

But have you listened to the lyrics for IRS? Shacklers Revenge? Rhiad? Scraped? Prostitute?

And some of the bands biggest hits or staple songs? Paradise City? You could Be Mine? Nightrain? It's so easy? Perfect crime?

Yes. Sometimes Axl and great song writers can give you a great story with their lyrics.

But you don't need a great story that takes you on a lyrical journey to make a fantastic rock song. Songs like PC, Nightrain, YCBM and rocket queen prove that.

I would rather Axl put out an album every five years that had 3-4 of his attempts at being "epic" type songs (estranged and TWAT) and 10 old fashion kick ass rock songs (YCBM and Nightrain). And repeat that cycle every five years.

As opposed to one album every 20 years as Axl tries to create the greatest album of all time.

True, CD has about 3 albums of epics. I think two is enough per cd really. CD has 6 pretty epic songs at least.

Axl got songs and lyrics from Izzy too. That kind of balanced the GNR albums out.

[wasted]

Listen, 'selling out', definition of,

- Played greatest hits/best of setlists to appeal to laymen

- playing the same setlist

- not releasing new material

- playing Vegas

- doing commercials for cash

- releasing music specifically designed to appeal to the largest denominator.

Axl is guilty of at least, five of those, the first five.

I think Dylan did that first one in Asia. Compare that to his US sets recently. He's playing the same set list right now in the US tour.

This is Dylan's last setlist. It contains only 3-5 bona fide 'greatest hits' from a potential 22.

• Things Have Changed

• She Belongs to Me

• Beyond Here Lies Nothin'

• Workingman's Blues #2

• Duquesne Whistle

• Waiting for You

• Pay in Blood

• Tangled Up in Blue

• Love Sick

• High Water (For Charley Patton)

• Simple Twist of Fate

• Early Roman Kings

• Forgetful Heart

• Spirit on the Water

• Scarlet Town

• Soon After Midnight

• Long and Wasted Years

• Autumn Leaves

  (Yves Montand cover)

• Encore:

• Blowin' in the Wind

• Stay With Me

In the US he's just playing the same set a bit like Axl. I think the US fans know the new stuff?

But in Asia he played the hits/classics for laymen.

Strangely Axl played more new stuff in Asia. Shows how much the US rejected CD really.

[DieselDaisy]

He was playing new stuff in China also. And he was switching the setlist around gig by gig.

There is no way you can possibly compare the two. In fact you could not have picked a worst analogy for Axl in Dylan. I mean Dylan has released four albums since lazy bollocks released CD haha!!

In terms of musical integrity, there is Dylan, Springsteen, Neil Young and Pearl Jam basically.

[wasted]

But I guess depends what you read about CD. Del said Axl just wasn't ready to release it until 2008. The perfectionist thing has to play into, or fear, or just being lazy, but wouldn't it be easier and less hassle just to release something on schedule? Axl fights the system, tries to get it to work. Izzy doesn't deal with it, he's in the desert recording and releasing whatever he wants.

What do you mean he wasn't ready to release it until 2008? so he made his mind back in 2000 that he won't release it in 2008? I guess he had pressure from his management cause of the Dr. Pepper thing and the Best Buy deal thats why he had to just release it, otherwise CD also wouldn't have seen the light of the day, supposedly a lot of stuff has been recorded, he was touring in 2010, he could have easily released a new record that time, he has people who do work for him, so it just goes over my head why he keeps on delaying things.

Del made it seem that Axl just wasn't finished with it til 2008. But if you read Chinese whisper you could get a different picture. So it depends what you read.

We've been through it before. At first in 1999, it's the label thinking no hit but don't worry well get RTB in he'll sort it. They want to sell 20 million records. They rerecord, Axl kind of thinks its ready. Ezrin says its not ready. A bit of a set back. There was that cancelled tour. They work on it some more with Costanzo until 2004. But that is the year of VR. So they put out GH. Bucket quits. Bumble, Better, possible release in 2006? CD out 2008.

So I think every factor is involved. Label wanting to cash in, Axl not wanting to drop a bomb, also not wanting to play media game and lose, people telling him make better it sucks, lack of support from label after 2004. It's that early on Axl was ready to go, but them by 2004 the label was but Axl wasn't. There wasn't a lot of support for CD in media or even fans. The reunion was and still is always there.

[Słash]

But I guess depends what you read about CD. Del said Axl just wasn't ready to release it until 2008. The perfectionist thing has to play into, or fear, or just being lazy, but wouldn't it be easier and less hassle just to release something on schedule? Axl fights the system, tries to get it to work. Izzy doesn't deal with it, he's in the desert recording and releasing whatever he wants.

What do you mean he wasn't ready to release it until 2008? so he made his mind back in 2000 that he won't release it in 2008? I guess he had pressure from his management cause of the Dr. Pepper thing and the Best Buy deal thats why he had to just release it, otherwise CD also wouldn't have seen the light of the day, supposedly a lot of stuff has been recorded, he was touring in 2010, he could have easily released a new record that time, he has people who do work for him, so it just goes over my head why he keeps on delaying things.

Del made it seem that Axl just wasn't finished with it til 2008. But if you read Chinese whisper you could get a different picture. So it depends what you read.

We've been through it before. At first in 1999, it's the label thinking no hit but don't worry well get RTB in he'll sort it. They want to sell 20 million records. They rerecord, Axl kind of thinks its ready. Ezrin says its not ready. A bit of a set back. There was that cancelled tour. They work on it some more with Costanzo until 2004. But that is the year of VR. So they put out GH. Bucket quits. Bumble, Better, possible release in 2006? CD out 2008.

So I think every factor is involved. Label wanting to cash in, Axl not wanting to drop a bomb, also not wanting to play media game and lose, people telling him make better it sucks, lack of support from label after 2004. It's that early on Axl was ready to go, but them by 2004 the label was but Axl wasn't. There wasn't a lot of support for CD in media or even fans. The reunion was and still is always there.

So what is stopping Axl from releasing the Album now? I don't think so VR was a threat to him, maybe he thought it was a threat, but it wasn't, he owns the GNR name, the album would have been released by the GNR name, I know so many people that know the name GNR and love the songs but they dont even know who is Axl or Slash

I feel bad for Josh Freese, he was in the studio with the other guys and they recorded so much stuff and Axl hardly showed up, then later on his parts were Re Recorded by Brain and Ferrer

[wasted]

I think that Best buy deal really saved everyone's ass and without we'd not get CD. The label washed their hands in 2004.

So I'm not sure there's much goodwill over at the label. And what does Axl have there and nastier, meaner CD. Sound like a hit record? To a label I'm guessing no. But even so sales are down 50%. Rock or Bust was a Bust, U2 just gave theirs away.

So the same mix of reasons but people giving less of a shit because there's no money in it?

Label must be hoping for a reunion.

Best thing a record can do is promo a tour?

So there's one more record don't spend it all at once.

[rudolf1978]

The key in all the situations is AXl

First as we all know if he wants Reunion is posible

Second if he can sing Reunion is Posible

I think now its too late,the time was in 2006 and expecially 2010 when Axl was on top form,thin and singing like the good old days.

But imagine the old band reuniting and Axl being as fat as he was in 2014 and singing like he has been singing from 2011 to 2014. That pics in Bolivia with the yellow trousers......he was like a meatball.

A TOTAL DISASTER.

[Snake-Pit]

Don't understand why Steven Adler should be drummer over Matt Sorum.

Srlsy.

[Słash]

Don't understand why Steven Adler should be drummer over Matt Sorum.

Srlsy.

Well Steven is doing good, his drumming is still awesome, I watched him live and he was spot on, see him live once and your thinking will change

[Nosaj Thing]

What's ridiculous, is this begins to appear as if we're somehow preoccupied with calling Axl a sellout when that's absolutely not the case. Many criticisms of Axl are thrown around this forum; sellout doesn't come up that much. The reason this shit comes up, and the reason it's an argument, is people love to casually state that Axl is unlike others and never sells out, or that he's much full so integrity, or he's too art perfectionism, or whatever - and these things are said as if everyone should passively accept them as truth. It's fucking bonkers

This truly encapsulates the whole "Axl is a sell out" discussion. Denying that he sold out long ago is just ridiculous. I mean, it's not even a bad thing.

[Snowmass]

Guess TB decided to pipe in on all the reunion talk. From the GnR Twitter- PSA for all the die hards...

"Don't you take it so hard now

And please don't take it so bad

I'll still be thinkin' of you

And the times we had... baby(ies)"

[Estranged Coma]

Guess TB decided to pipe in on all the reunion talk. From the GnR Twitter- PSA for all the die hards...

"Don't you take it so hard now

And please don't take it so bad

I'll still be thinkin' of you

And the times we had... baby(ies)"

That's actually kinda interesting, seeing as all the talk is of reunion right now

[wasted]

Guess TB decided to pipe in on all the reunion talk. From the GnR Twitter- PSA for all the die hards...

"Don't you take it so hard now

And please don't take it so bad

I'll still be thinkin' of you

And the times we had... baby(ies)"

That's actually kinda interesting, seeing as all the talk is of reunion right now

TB says No reunion for you.

Say Daniel Trunkman.

[GET OFF AXLS BACK]

Truth is, Axl retired in 96.

Yes he performs some times and has released an album but GnR as one of the most incredible bands around died in 96.

It makes me incredibly sad but I have finally given up now, thanx for the memories GnR

[DR DOOM]

Don't understand why Steven Adler should be drummer over Matt Sorum.

Srlsy.

Because Steven is the perfect drummer for (real) GNR and none of the other guys can make those songs sound as good as he does.

[wasted]

They will play AFD in full in Vegas when they are 70.

[mr. ritz88]

Steven Adler, as fucked up and has been as he looks, can still drum like a motherfucker.

[mr. ritz88]

Sorry, this is the first time I've logged on since I started this thread. There has got to be a way with so many original gnr fans out there that we can make axl hear us.

[HuskerTornado]

Sorry, this is the first time I've logged on since I started this thread. There has got to be a way with so many original gnr fans out there that we can make axl hear us.

He's aware, just uninterested.