Who are the most influential musicians of all-time?d

[J Dog]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Nah man, NWA is all Cube.  Dre did some good production on Xzibits album Relentless was it called?  

Yeah that was a good album. He's done some work with Nas that's wasn't bad.

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, J Dog said:

Yeah that was a good album. He's done some work with Nas that's wasn't bad.

The Firm soundtrack right? I think I'm just burnt on the guy cuz i paid good money for that and Aftermath Presents back in the day.  Ever hear that Been There Done That diss by J Flexx on Death Rows Greatest Hits?   'a million MCs on the planet earth, watch your back and peep game or you will get jerked'

[J Dog]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

The Firm soundtrack right? I think I'm just burnt on the guy cuz i paid good money for that and Aftermath Presents back in the day.  Ever hear that Been There Done That diss by J Flexx on Death Rows Greatest Hits?   'a million MCs on the planet earth, watch your back and peep game or you will get jerked'

Who been there who done that 

Aftermath Presents was bullshit I'm with you there. This is what really connects him and Em. Dre was kinda out the game and that album didn't do a damn thing for Aftermath. And then...

 

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

sooooooo back on topic- Johnny Cash, Chuck Berry, The Beatles ( John most for me ) Queen, David Bowie, Kurt Cobain, Buddy Holly, Frank Sinatra, Tupac Shakur ( who made a total white bread chick like me appreciate rap ) Ray Charles, Billie Holliday, George Jones, Hank Williams, Patsy Cline ok i can go on for hours but that' a little sample for now.

oh. and Eminem definitely...

Edited May 2, 2017 by AxlsFavoriteRose

[wasted]

It's a weird question with various levels of subjectivity. Pac is probably more important to rap and the oppressed. But does Eminem have all that plus bona fide mainstream crossover. Like Elvis wasn't that important to the evo of rock n roll but he became the most influential symbol and his  music is global. Eminem is just way more up in the global popular culture. Way I see it, Pac is Chuck Berry, Em is Elvis. I see Elvis as more broadly accesible and therefore more influential. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by wasted

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

39 minutes ago, wasted said:

It's a weird question with various levels of subjectivity. Pac is probably more important to rap and the oppressed. But does Eminem have all that plus bona fide mainstream crossover. Like Elvis wasn't that important to the evo of rock n roll but he became the most influential symbol and his  music is global. Eminem is just way more up in the global popular culture. Way I see it, Pac is Chuck Berry, Em is Elvis. I see Elvis as more broadly accesible and therefore more influential. 

very good points!

[Len Cnut]

4 hours ago, wasted said:

It's a weird question with various levels of subjectivity. Pac is probably more important to rap and the oppressed. But does Eminem have all that plus bona fide mainstream crossover. Like Elvis wasn't that important to the evo of rock n roll but he became the most influential symbol and his  music is global. Eminem is just way more up in the global popular culture. Way I see it, Pac is Chuck Berry, Em is Elvis. I see Elvis as more broadly accesible and therefore more influential. 

I fundamentally disagree with this.  More important to the 'oppressed'?   Sorry, that made me laugh!  But anyway right, bona fide cross over appeal and way more up in global popular culture?  No way.  When you go down Oxford Street and you have the street traders flogging those laminate posters that you see driving past they have Bob Marley, they have Hendrix, they have Tupac...they don't have Eminem.  When you see those big fuck off graphiti murals across the world in Paris, in New York, in LA, in London, in Stockholm etc etc, where I'm sure you see SOME of Em' mostly you see Tupac.  In movies Pac is referenced, by other artists he is bought up and eulogised and copied and covered, he is by far more of a cultural figure than Eminem, by incredibly far.  

You wanna know how far Pacs appeal goes, this one shocked even me, I'm in Kashmir right, its fuckin' 2000 or 2001, this is about as remote a fuckin' rural goat-shagger outpost as you are gonna come across, I'm talking remote as fuck, right out there in the sticks, places where there ain't electric and running water.  I go to this wooden fuckin' tape stand, looking at all this fuckin' Indian and Asian music and what do i see...a fuckin' forged bootleg photo-copy covered version of the first CD of All Eyez On Me.  Thug Life, that shit has entered the cultural lexicon, Tupac is huge.

See Em' has sales, I'll give him that but Pac the right sales.  Em' has a great deal of what are known as disposable sales, the kinda sales that all kindsa people have, the kinda sales that John Denver or Mariah Carey or The Backstreet Boys have, teenybopper sales, sales that in 10 years time those people ain't gonna admit to having paid for that shit   Now I'm not tryna look down on anybody here, just making a distinction between like, when you get into that ridiculous level of appeal to where your appeal is so broad that it becomes non-specific almost.  Like you look at these top ten lists of record sales and you have people like Bruce Springsteen and...I dunno, whoever and though they are beloved artists by a great many, and I ain't even trying to put Em' on that level, there is a massive portion of people who put in for those albums that are like the casual listener and probably don't assist in your making the same kind of lasting dent in popular culture.  Which isn't to say that everyone that bought Pacs albums were serious hip hop heads or cultural movers and shakers, far from it, nor would it necessarily be beneficial, I'm just making a distinction regarding the kind of mass appeal that someone like Em' got to where it becomes, to a degree, kinda non specific after a while.

He is nowhere near the bigger popular culture icon over Tupac.  Pac is up there with that fuckin' dead legend contingent, you can't fuck with those guys, Hendrix and fuckin' Cobain and Pac and Jim Morrison etc (however any of you might feel about the gulf in talent between em).

[wasted]

5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I fundamentally disagree with this.  More important to the 'oppressed'?   Sorry, that made me laugh!  But anyway right, bona fide cross over appeal and way more up in global popular culture?  No way.  When you go down Oxford Street and you have the street traders flogging those laminate posters that you see driving past they have Bob Marley, they have Hendrix, they have Tupac...they don't have Eminem.  When you see those big fuck off graphiti murals across the world in Paris, in New York, in LA, in London, in Stockholm etc etc, where I'm sure you see SOME of Em' mostly you see Tupac.  In movies Pac is referenced, by other artists he is bought up and eulogised and copied and covered, he is by far more of a cultural figure than Eminem, by incredibly far.  

You wanna know how far Pacs appeal goes, this one shocked even me, I'm in Kashmir right, its fuckin' 2000 or 2001, this is about as remote a fuckin' rural goat-shagger outpost as you are gonna come across, I'm talking remote as fuck, right out there in the sticks, places where there ain't electric and running water.  I go to this wooden fuckin' tape stand, looking at all this fuckin' Indian and Asian music and what do i see...a fuckin' forged bootleg photo-copy covered version of the first CD of All Eyez On Me.  Thug Life, that shit has entered the cultural lexicon, Tupac is huge.

See Em' has sales, I'll give him that but Pac the right sales.  Em' has a great deal of what are known as disposable sales, the kinda sales that all kindsa people have, the kinda sales that John Denver or Mariah Carey or The Backstreet Boys have, teenybopper sales, sales that in 10 years time those people ain't gonna admit to having paid for that shit   Now I'm not tryna look down on anybody here, just making a distinction between like, when you get into that ridiculous level of appeal to where your appeal is so broad that it becomes non-specific almost.  Like you look at these top ten lists of record sales and you have people like Bruce Springsteen and...I dunno, whoever and though they are beloved artists by a great many, and I ain't even trying to put Em' on that level, there is a massive portion of people who put in for those albums that are like the casual listener and probably don't assist in your making the same kind of lasting dent in popular culture.  Which isn't to say that everyone that bought Pacs albums were serious hip hop heads or cultural movers and shakers, far from it, nor would it necessarily be beneficial, I'm just making a distinction regarding the kind of mass appeal that someone like Em' got to where it becomes, to a degree, kinda non specific after a while.

He is nowhere near the bigger popular culture icon over Tupac.  Pac is up there with that fuckin' dead legend contingent, you can't fuck with those guys, Hendrix and fuckin' Cobain and Pac and Jim Morrison etc (however any of you might feel about the gulf in talent between em).

Tupac has that counter culture appeal, I just put more stock in that more mainstream appeal. That's my theory anyway. It's a cheaper sort of appeal but I think it might be more. Like Elvis has this broad appeal. I would say Eminem is the Elvis of rap. He's taken rap right into the mainstream, I mean he's doing top 40 tracks with Rhianna and that Maroon guy. It's just a area Tupac never went to. Em just reaches more people, maybe that's just my impression because he's more current. But his albums or the last one have such diversity, legot good tap tracks and also rock ballads like Headlights and pop like Monster. He sort of smuggles rapping right into the mainstream. 

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Tupac has that counter culture appeal, I just put more stock in that more mainstream appeal. That's my theory anyway. It's a cheaper sort of appeal but I think it might be more. Like Elvis has this broad appeal. I would say Eminem is the Elvis of rap. He's taken rap right into the mainstream, I mean he's doing top 40 tracks with Rhianna and that Maroon guy. It's just a area Tupac never went to. Em just reaches more people, maybe that's just my impression because he's more current. But his albums or the last one have such diversity, legot good tap tracks and also rock ballads like Headlights and pop like Monster. He sort of smuggles rapping right into the mainstream. 

Rap was big in the mainstream before Eminem though, I was in school around the time his first album came out and the two years preceding all anyone listened to was hip hop and RnB.

[J Dog]

If we're talking musical influence it has to be Pac. Em, as much as I love him and as great as he is, hasn't influenced the actual music and others rappers like Pac. Every real rapper can credit Pac with something. Pac is a much bigger influence to the rap game. Rappers didn't even say thug before Pac. They didn't make mama songs before Pac. Rappers weren't all tatted up before Pac.

I guess Em can be in the convo when it comes to pop culture and record sales. But Pac is still there too. Just the whole thug style came from him. Em did have a whole army of white kids not giving a fuck. But there's a whole generation of the black community that, they don't even put Pac with other rappers, they put him with Malcom X and the Panthers and shit. To a lot of people that guy meant so much more than a favorite rapper. Myself included, he's a hero of mine.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Rap was big in the mainstream before Eminem though, I was in school around the time his first album came out and the two years preceding all anyone listened to was hip hop and RnB.

i listened to Eminem first cos, well, that's what was on MTV ( i think they were still playing actual videos then ) and i thought he was very cool ( and cute  )

but when i heard California Love it was like OMG what IS this? i love it! then i started following him and i really loved his music and respected him a LOT.

btw, totally off topic but why did Suge Knight think he was due the money and rights to Vanilla Ice? i saw it on this 80's The Decade That Changed us show and was like wtf??

[Len Cnut]

2 hours ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

i listened to Eminem first cos, well, that's what was on MTV ( i think they were still playing actual videos then ) and i thought he was very cool ( and cute  )

but when i heard California Love it was like OMG what IS this? i love it! then i started following him and i really loved his music and respected him a LOT.

btw, totally off topic but why did Suge Knight think he was due the money and rights to Vanilla Ice? i saw it on this 80's The Decade That Changed us show and was like wtf??

He wasnt, a producer called Chocolate who he represented wrote 8 songs off the album was due that shit.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

He wasnt, a producer called Chocolate who he represented wrote 8 songs off the album was due that shit.

ok? LOL sorry i am still confused. what a surprise huh?

[Len Cnut]

44 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

ok? LOL sorry i am still confused. what a surprise huh?

Suge Knight started off as a bodyguard, made connections, went into artist management whereby he ended up managing a producer called Chocolate who co-wrote 8 tracks off of Ices debut and Suge did what he did to get Chocolate his alleged dues cuz Ice was looking to rip him off and not give him the proper credit/money.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Suge Knight started off as a bodyguard, made connections, went into artist management whereby he ended up managing a producer called Chocolate who co-wrote 8 tracks off of Ices debut and Suge did what he did to get Chocolate his alleged dues cuz Ice was looking to rip him off and not give him the proper credit/money.

thanks

[Len Cnut]

Depending on who you ask, including ex Death Row folks and even Snoop now they've made up, Suge was like...a Robin Hood type figure who helped a lot of under-represented street characters in rap get their just dues, albeit often through less than legal means.

Suges biggest mistake was making such a spectacle of himself, getting so out there and in the public, thats when the wrong kinds of people, FBI and ATF started looking into his activities, if he had remained low key and in the back he, and by association Death Row, might still be around today.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

5 hours ago, J Dog said:

I guess Em can be in the convo when it comes to pop culture and record sales. But Pac is still there too. Just the whole thug style came from him. Em did have a whole army of white kids not giving a fuck.

Eminem is kind of a gateway though, for lack of a better term. a lot of people who probably were never going to listen to rap ( and i say this from personal experience ) began giving it a try cos of him. not saying anything against Tupac, he was a genius and there will never be another person like him. 

[Len Cnut]

Quote

hasn't influenced the actual music and others rappers like Pac. 

Not as much as Pac but I'm hearing a lot of Em' in a lot of new rappers.

Quote

Eminem is kind of a gateway though, for lack of a better term.

Yeah i dont like the term either, gateway to me always suggests that its like a watered down entry level thing and I'll say this for Em', he is the real deal, hip hop through and through, mind blowing skills, i still think he would blow any of these new kids away in a battle, I mean just brush em right off.

[wasted]

6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Rap was big in the mainstream before Eminem though, I was in school around the time his first album came out and the two years preceding all anyone listened to was hip hop and RnB.

I wouldn't call that the mainstream though. Tupac wasn't really rapping on no 1 Madonna singles. Iron maiden was huge in the 90s, not sure I call it mainstream culture. I remember a moment when Snoop was really in popular culture, taking Larry King to Roscoe's, doing songs with Justin Timberlake, Katy Perry. To me Tupac is the icon, the pure artist, but how relatable to the mainstream I'm not sure. Suppose there's a difference between music fans and the mainstream. Eminem has been much more high profile from the get go. I wonder if true artists have that much influence. Lennon, Tupac, Kurt - it's like they are beyond being influential. Most peoplle don't know how to process them so they become symbols or icons. 

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, wasted said:

I wouldn't call that the mainstream though. Tupac wasn't really rapping on no 1 Madonna singles. Iron maiden was huge in the 90s, not sure I call it mainstream culture. I remember a moment when Snoop was really in popular culture, taking Larry King to Roscoe's, doing songs with Justin Timberlake, Katy Perry. To me Tupac is the icon, the pure artist, but how relatable to the mainstream I'm not sure. Suppose there's a difference between music fans and the mainstream. Eminem has been much more high profile from the get go. I wonder if true artists have that much influence. Lennon, Tupac, Kurt - it's like they are beyond being influential. Most peoplle don't know how to process them so they become symbols or icons. 

California Love single was MASSIVELY mainstream, they had it in Woolies for chrissakes!

[wasted]

16 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

California Love single was MASSIVELY mainstream, they had it in Woolies for chrissakes!

But it wasn't put there by the mainstream culture. It was gamgsters storming the charts, scaring everyone. Like Marilyn Manson had chart songs. Whereas Eminem is just mainstream culture. Em is one of the biggest selling artists of the 00s, he's made rap into pop music. And that is a huge platform. Like Elvis. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

4 minutes ago, wasted said:

But it wasn't put there by the mainstream culture. It was gamgsters storming the charts, scaring everyone. Like Marilyn Manson had chart songs. Whereas Eminem is just mainstream culture. 

Well by that rationale Em' was underground hip hop storming the charts.  Em' wasn't dreamt up in a boardroom somewhere, he has a serious underground pedigree, he was known before he was known.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Len Cnut

[wasted]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Well by that rationale Em' was underground hip hop storming the charts.  Em' wasn't dreamt up in a boardroom somewhere, he has a serious underground pedigree, he was known before he was known.

But he became mainstream pop culture. And no doubt Tupac and alll those like Dre, Snoop laid the ground work. Ems debut was not like what is this, it came in as pop music. He really cemented rap in the mainstream. 

[Len Cnut]

I guess I could agree with that.  And Snoop of that era, in furtherance of your point, was way too raw to be mainstream.

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

10 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Not as much as Pac but I'm hearing a lot of Em' in a lot of new rappers.

Yeah i dont like the term either, gateway to me always suggests that its like a watered down entry level thing and I'll say this for Em', he is the real deal, hip hop through and through, mind blowing skills, i still think he would blow any of these new kids away in a battle, I mean just brush em right off.

of course he would. which new rappers do you hear Em in? i would like to check them out. 

 

9 hours ago, wasted said:

But it wasn't put there by the mainstream culture. It was gamgsters storming the charts, scaring everyone. Like Marilyn Manson had chart songs. Whereas Eminem is just mainstream culture. Em is one of the biggest selling artists of the 00s, he's made rap into pop music. And that is a huge platform. Like Elvis. 

exactly! but Eminem made it approachable ( is that better than gateway @Len Cnut? ) no one i knew was listening to rap until they heard Eminem. and then they, like me and a lot of other people, became curious about rap. when i first heard rap i was like their is no way i am ever going to like this, period, end of report. but i listened to Eminem who made it intriguing to me and curious about other rap. i am not like you all who apparently know every thing about rap but i am representing the people like ME who don't know all but listen now because of Eminem.