November Rain: 823 Million YouTube Views

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, Frey said:

Yeah, but Sluff and Seymour supposedly calling him an idiot and not liking his songs in the early 90s already "put him down so much" and made him stop writing songs for years. 

If something comparatively small like that already puts such a long-lasting damper on his confidence, imagine all the musicians he admired and wanted to be like (and wanted to be friends with), as well as the mainstream media only making fun of him and everything he stood for. I can't imagine this didn't affect him somehow and is probably one of the main reasons he tried so hard to be someone else for so many years.

And yeah, the Steph Seymour thing probably plays a role too.

I agree with the insecurity/over-sensitivity point, but, on the other hand, those other musicians and the media were making fun of him already in 1992, yet he did the Estranged video (and the Since I Don't Have You one after that, which was in a similar vein).

This is why I believe that it has mostly to with him having regrets for exposing himself/his feelings and his personal life so much (in the videos as well as in interviews). Right after this quote, he indirectly renounced even the SCOM video (he hadn't been made fun of for that) saying that it wasn't what he originally wanted to do; thank god though that the plot he said he had in mind for the video was rejected by the label (if that story was true at all).

Edited July 14, 2017 by Blackstar

[Blackstar]

53 minutes ago, Frey said:

...

I just recalled this excerpt from Mick Wall's latest book, which in a way supports your (and @killuridols's) assumption:

‘Axl called me one day when we were off the road for a couple years,’ Doug Goldstein recalls. ‘He said, “What do you think, in retrospect, was the biggest mistake I’ve made in my professional career?” I said, “Probably the ‘November Rain’ video, showing the big mansion that the general public has paid for.” He went, “Wow. Yeah. You know what, you’re probably right.” So we let it go and then he called me about two days later and he said, “Hey, Doug, I want to go back to your point about showing my house. I understand because now it’s all about being one of the crowd, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, flannel shirts, and it’s no longer superstars, they want you to be one of them. But nobody ever told us that the world changed.” I said, “You know what, you’re right.” It was a very valid point that he turned up … We would get on our bus or plane and we had no fucking clue what was happening worldwide. We were just doing what we enjoyed doing and that’s it, no more or less.’

But still, if the conversation went as Dougie recites it, it was about showing his house (not about "corniness"); moreover, Axl remained eccentric and never became the "guy next door", so I don't think his "regret" has mostly to do with that.

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Blackstar

[DieselDaisy]

11 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

Bullshit.

You old GN'R purists are so up your own ass you can't see the forest through the trees.

Artists change. That's what they do. That's what Axl wanted to do. He didn't want to become AC/DC and make records about partying and pussy his whole career.

Yip. The easiest way to change and be an artist is to never release albums and still be found trotting out the 'hits' forevermore.

[EvanG]

7 hours ago, Frey said:

Depends on if you actually liked what Slash did in all these years. I'm not very impressed by most of Slash's solo stuff, so to me these years are nearly as wasted as Axl's.

Well, it's subjective if you like his stuff or not, but as an artist he's been releasing music and not wasting years not doing that, and you can't say that about Axl, except for that one album almost ten years ago.

[EvanG]

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I understand because now it’s all about being one of the crowd, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, flannel shirts, and it’s no longer superstars, they want you to be one of them. But nobody ever told us that the world changed.”

The fact that Axl thinks that way already says a lot. He shouldn't be doing what is happening at the moment or what people expect a rockstar to be like. That was the appeal of that early 90s alt-rock scene... most of those guys were themselves and didn't pretend to be something else. It's about being authentic and not going with the flavour of the month, like Axl went from the leather LA look to wearing flannel in the early 90s. People see through that.

[killuridols]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

This is why I believe that it has mostly to with him having regrets for exposing himself/his feelings and his personal life so much (in the videos as well as in interviews). Right after this quote, he indirectly renounced even the SCOM video (he hadn't been made fun of for that) saying that it wasn't what he originally wanted to do; thank god though that the plot he said he had in mind for the video was rejected by the label (if that story was true at all).

I do think this as well. To me it is basically him feeling embarassed of how much he exposed himself with his feelings towards Erin and Stephanie. The three videos are related to these relationships and the Making of, he also exposes himself with all the shit he talks about Dylan. If he ever watched that in retrospect, he must have cringed at the crazy things he said.

In the making of Estranged, he says he doesnt know any other artist who has shown their own emotional destruction like he did in that video. He seemed proud of that at the moment.

So when in 2011 he talks about them as "corny", I understand this as he is talking about Nov Rain video mostly, essentially because of the wedding and the feelings associated to it: sentimental, romantic, but excessive with all the imagery about prince, princess, church, the dress, the orchestra, the reception, the cake, etc.

And I agreed with @Frey's points about Axl being extremely insecure and changing his mind all the time. Also, always asking opinion on what he should or shouldnt do and relying too much on what others think of him.

This insecurity makes him an easy target for all kinds of people. He doesn't know what he wants and he tries to follow the fads, instead of being himself. 

So he's probably convinced himself to think the videos are corny because Kurt and the grungies thought they were shit videos.

[Blackstar]

19 hours ago, EvanG said:

The fact that Axl thinks that way already says a lot. He shouldn't be doing what is happening at the moment or what people expect a rockstar to be like. That was the appeal of that early 90s alt-rock scene... most of those guys were themselves and didn't pretend to be something else. It's about being authentic and not going with the flavour of the month, like Axl went from the leather LA look to wearing flannel in the early 90s. People see through that.

I don't think it was about "going with the flavour of the month" and not being authentic. It's not simple as that. Axl is a very complicated guy with a lot of issues and sides that contradict each other.

Axl dropped the leather/80s look when most still dressed like that and before "grunge" was even a thought - see the YCBM video, for example (there has been a similar misconception about TSI album being an attempt of GnR to stay relevant, while most of it was recorded in 1990). The only item in his attire during the UYI era that was associated with grunge was the flannel and I don't think he wore it because of that; in 1992 he would appear in a flannel shirt and after 2-3 songs he'd change to a purple blazer and shorts of the same colour, then to a kilt... What Axl wore in the 90s was totally his thing - no one dressed like that. The "costume changes", the videos and other things he did that made him look pretentious in the eyes of many people are part of his personality, of who he was/is; and in this sense he has been authentic.

Like I said in a post above, there is a pattern in all GnR videos (I mean the ones that have a "theme" and not just the band performing), which was a conscious choice: they all reflect who Axl was at the time and where he was at. In the trilogy videos he was a rockstar undergoing that new age "regression therapy" shit (the latter is crucial in order to understand what was behind the self-indulgence and "corniness" of these videos). For Axl, being a "rising above the mass" rockstar was a natural development/evolution of himself after he became successful; and he couldn't understand why he was criticized and hated for that by other musicians, the media etc; or why he was being degraded as a musician and a person because of that, since he saw himself as an artist who hadn't compromised to get where he was and still did what he wanted, so he didn't see a contradiction between being an artist and a rockstar at the same time.

Axl grew up in the 70s under certain circumstances (small town in the Midwest - christian fundamentalist family and abusive stepfather). As a kid his access to music was limited to a radio station playing the mainstream rock of the time and he was shaped by this music. As a teenager he loved straight hard rock bands like Bon Scott AC/DC. He also loved punk, but he wasn't affected by the ideology that went with it to the point to reject the other music out there; he still liked the big bands (Queen, Zeppelin, 70s Stones, Elton John etc). He liked a lot of different stuff (I don't think there were many people like him back then) and took things from all, so he was a combination of Bon Scott and punk (among other things) at first because that was what came out of him, and, when he became successful, the "bloated" 70s bands and the larger-than-life rockstars he had idolized as a kid were his model. (This article/interview is very telling about who he was and how he was thinking in 1992)

Kurt Cobain, as well as other musicians of that generation, a little younger than Axl (the small age difference is important in this case), were shaped as teenagers by the full punk package and the cultural shift it had caused. Kurt saw himself as the Johnny Rotten of his generation who had to stand up against everything he thought as representative of fake/pretentious/bloated/corporate/ideologically wrong rock, which at the time happened to be mainly GnR and Axl. On the other hand, he wanted to be successful; and the more successful he became, the more he felt the need to define himself in contrast to other big bands, stressing that his success was due to being genuine and real, while GnR were a product of the music industry. He wasn't a conscious hypocrite, he was a walking contradiction like Axl. He was right when he said that there were "Axls" before Axl in rock and this thing had become boring by that point, but the same can be said about him. This is why both of them were the last of their kind and what followed Kurt's death, as much as he was mythologized, was Marilyn Manson and nu metal.

The shift in rock in the early 90s had its roots in the 70s (when the musicians of that generation grew up). It was perceived as "real" by the 90s kids and probably by its protagonists on one side of the fence, but, in fact, it was a second hand thing, a watered-down revival of the punk explosion in the 70s and, in the end, superficial. The cultural equivalent to punk wasn't Nirvana and "grunge", it was hip hop.

19 hours ago, killuridols said:

This insecurity makes him an easy target for all kinds of people. He doesn't know what he wants and he tries to follow the fads, instead of being himself. 

So he's probably convinced himself to think the videos are corny because Kurt and the grungies thought they were shit videos.

I agree about Axl being insecure and caring a lot for what people say. But, like I said in a previous reply, I don't see it having much to do with his regrets for the videos.

I also don't think that he follows the fads. He wants to be accepted and acknowledged, he wanted to be relevant, yes, but it doesn't seem to me that he tried to be someone else. He didn't try to be "one of the crowd" following the grunge model; he never tried to be like, say, Eddie Vedder; he has always been over the top, lol.

I think that, besides having regrets for exposing himself in the videos, it's possible that reviewing them years later when he was older (it was in the 2006 interview when he said all that) he really thought that certain elements (I agree that he was mostly talking about the NR video) were silly/corny, for example having Matt Sorum coming out of the cake etc.

Anyway, this is my opinion...

Edited July 15, 2017 by Blackstar
added

[killuridols]

23 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I agree about Axl being insecure and caring a lot for what people say. But, like I said in a previous reply, I don't see it having much to do with his regrets for the videos.

Yeah, I read your previous response and it makes a lot of sense in the way you put it.

Maybe I did not express myself very well but what I meant is that Axl could have given a different response and not transmit that feeling of insecurity. Stand by what you created back then because its not like he was forced to make those videos. They were his idea, he wanted to expose his "emotional destruction" like that and there must be a reason behind it. He could have defended the idea instead of calling them "corny", because even if for some people they look like that, when you get to know all the details behind them, the stories that lead to those images, to that script, you understand the videos and what he wanted to achieve with them.

So this is why I think he sounded insecure when saying those things.... but maybe he was not ready to talk in depth about that and decided to agree with the "common opinion", which is sad (to me), but probably the easiest and fastest way to get out of that question.

28 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I also don't think that he follows the fads. He wants to be accepted and acknowledged, he wanted to be relevant, yes, but it doesn't seem to me that he tried to be someone else. He didn't try to be "one of the crowd" following the grunge model; he never tried to be like, say, Eddie Vedder; he always has been over the top, lol.

After 1993, it looks to me that he got confused with what he wanted for GN'R. There's a reason why it was so hard to get back to work after the tour. He wanted 3 guitarists, then he wanted to go industrial, he wanted to do ballads.... I don't know if he wanted to be grunge (Eddie Vedder became more valuable a long time after the grunge died) but I do think he admired Trent Reznor a lot and thought he could be like him, Reznor was ALWAYS cool.

I agree with some things you said in the previous response but I dont see that Axl you describe in the years post 1993. He got stuck. He stopped fighting. He became generic, even in his style.... those braids?? then he started wearing bling bling and what kind of image is that (saten shirts, Gucci blazers, designer jeans)? Nothing cool. He looked just like a rich guy singing rock n' roll, and backed by a band of freaks.

 

[SWINGTRADER]

On 7/12/2017 at 7:57 AM, Wagszilla said:

823 million reasons why Slash's opinion counts less

Riiigggghhht.

 

Because Slash's brilliant guitar parts is not the reason why that song/video is so popular. Take away Slash's guitar solos and nobody would give a fuck.

 

Same goes for Estranged.

Edited July 15, 2017 by SWINGTRADER

[SWINGTRADER]

Just now, Wagszilla said:

He didn't want to do the song dummy

 

He didn't like Sweet Child either, that doesn't mean anything. His guitar is what made those songs legendary. Without him, the songs are dead on arrival.

[SWINGTRADER]

2 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Your honor, I rest my case.

 

Chinese DEmocracy, I rest my case.

[EvanG]

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't think it was about "going with the flavour of the month" and not being authentic. It's not simple as that. Axl is a very complicated guy with a lot of issues and sides that contradict each other.

I believe he was authentic in a way, but reading that quote you posted, made me think that he cared too much about the outside world. 

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Axl dropped the leather/80s look when most still dressed like that and before "grunge" was even a thought - see the YCBM video, for example (there has been a similar misconception about TSI album being an attempt of GnR to stay relevant, while most of it was recorded in 1990). 

Back in 1992/1993 flannel was immediately associated with grunge, at least in that world, so the fact that he started wearing flannel a lot at the time, even in the videos, means he went with the flow, which is no big deal, but that corresponds with what I was saying. He's also still wearing leather in the YCBM mine video, but whatever... it's not really about clothes. Kurt and Krist of Nirvana wore leather, too. I do think TSI was partly released because the whole punk sound had somewhat made a comeback in those days.

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

What Axl wore in the 90s was totally his thing - no one dressed like that.

That's true, not many guys wore belly button shirts and those tight shorts.

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Kurt Cobain, as well as other musicians of that generation, a little younger than Axl

A lof of guys from that Seattle scene were about the same age as Axl. Born early to mid 60s.

Edited July 15, 2017 by EvanG

[Blackstar]

17 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Back in 1992/1993 flannel was immediately associated with grunge, so the fact that he started wearing flannel a lot at the time, even in the videos, means he went with the flow, which is no big deal, but that corresponds with what I was saying. He's also still wearing leather in the YCBM mine video, but whatever...

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the "grungers" copied him

[EvanG]

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the "grungers" copied him

 

Good point... they kinda went with the stereotype too much in that video, the blade of grass in the mouth and the flannel. I doubt Axl really came out of the bus looking like that when he first arrived in LA.

Edited July 15, 2017 by EvanG

[Blackstar]

15 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Good point.... but they kinda went with the stereotype too much in that video, the blade of grass in the mouth and the flannel. I doubt Axl really came out of the bus looking like that when he first arrived in LA.

Yeah, it looks like a caricature of the "country boy" going to the big city, but on the other hand...

...even his hair is a little "grunge" here

Edited July 15, 2017 by Blackstar

[EvanG]

8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, it looks like a caricature of the "country boy" going to the big city, but on the other hand...

...even his hair is a little "grunge" here

I think you're onto something, he looks even more grungy than Kurt Cobain

Edited July 15, 2017 by EvanG

[Stoymatic]

On 7/11/2017 at 11:51 PM, Darth Fring said:

Currently November Rain has 823 million views on youtube.  Within a couple years it will likely pass the one billion mark.  Does anyone else find this rather amazing?  I mean that video was 12 years old before youtube existed.  (by comparison, Smells Like Teen Spirit has 562 million views)

sure do! crazy that there are so many other great rock songs out there, but none have an epic video like NR

[Nosaj Thing]

12 hours ago, SWINGTRADER said:

Chinese DEmocracy, I rest my case.

Ugh.  The worst piece of shit ever released.  

[Frey]

On 14.7.2017 at 2:04 PM, EvanG said:

Well, it's subjective if you like his stuff or not, but as an artist he's been releasing music and not wasting years not doing that, and you can't say that about Axl, except for that one album almost ten years ago.

In my original post I said to me these years are as wasted as Axl's. Music/albums I don't like are of no use or importance to me, so all these years Axl and Slash (and the rest of the band) didn't create music together when they could have done so are wasted, no matter how many solo albums they popped out in the meantime or whatever else they were doing.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Frey

[Frey]

12 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Like I said in a post above, there is a pattern in all GnR videos (I mean the ones that have a "theme" and not just the band performing), which was a conscious choice: they all reflect who Axl was at the time and where he was at. In the trilogy videos he was a rockstar undergoing that new age "regression therapy" shit (the latter is crucial in order to understand what was behind the self-indulgence and "corniness" of these videos). For Axl, being a "rising above the mass" rockstar was a natural development/evolution of himself after he became successful; and he couldn't understand why he was criticized and hated for that by other musicians, the media etc; or why he was being degraded as a musician and a person because of that, since he saw himself as an artist who hadn't compromised to get where he was and still did what he wanted, so he didn't see a contradiction between being an artist and a rockstar at the same time.

Axl grew up in the 70s under certain circumstances (small town in the Midwest - christian fundamentalist family and abusive stepfather). As a kid his access to music was limited to a radio station playing the mainstream rock of the time and he was shaped by this music. As a teenager he loved straight hard rock bands like Bon Scott AC/DC. He also loved punk, but he wasn't affected by the ideology that went with it to the point to reject the other music out there; he still liked the big bands (Queen, Zeppelin, 70s Stones, Elton John etc). He liked a lot of different stuff (I don't think there were many people like him back then) and took things from all, so he was a combination of Bon Scott and punk (among other things) at first because that was what came out of him, and, when he became successful, the "bloated" 70s bands and the larger-than-life rockstars he had idolized as a kid were his model. (This article/interview is very telling about who he was and how he was thinking in 1992)

First paragraph: Yeah, that might be an explanation for Axl's painful lack of understanding and confusion regarding the attitude and resenment he received from other musicians.

Thinking about this topic always makes me cringe, and certainly made me think less of a lot of musicians.

It looks too much like the rock music version of the cool kids on the playground fucking with the lonely (and maybe slightly retarded or socially inept) outcast kid and refusing to play with him, because they think they're so much better. Meanwhile, the outcast kid does and tries everything to be liked and accepted by the cool kids, never realizing he's only making more of a fool of himself.

Embarrassing for everyone involved.

 

Second paragraph: That's something I always liked about Axl- the fact that he doesn't limit himself when it comes to music, but finds enjoyment and something to appreciate in all different kinds of it.

I always found that much more likable than Sorum's or Slash's "This is a hard rock band, what's with the ballads?!" type whining, for example.

I guess his severely restricted ability to listen to music as a child left him with a hunger and an appreciation for anything he could get his hands on and anything that was out there to listen to.

 

 

 

[Frey]

On 14.7.2017 at 7:39 AM, Blackstar said:

I just recalled this excerpt from Mick Wall's latest book, which in a way supports your (and @killuridols's) assumption:

‘Axl called me one day when we were off the road for a couple years,’ Doug Goldstein recalls. ‘He said, “What do you think, in retrospect, was the biggest mistake I’ve made in my professional career?” I said, “Probably the ‘November Rain’ video, showing the big mansion that the general public has paid for.” He went, “Wow. Yeah. You know what, you’re probably right.” So we let it go and then he called me about two days later and he said, “Hey, Doug, I want to go back to your point about showing my house. I understand because now it’s all about being one of the crowd, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, flannel shirts, and it’s no longer superstars, they want you to be one of them. But nobody ever told us that the world changed.” I said, “You know what, you’re right.” It was a very valid point that he turned up … We would get on our bus or plane and we had no fucking clue what was happening worldwide. We were just doing what we enjoyed doing and that’s it, no more or less.’

But still, if the conversation went as Dougie recites it, it was about showing his house (not about "corniness"); moreover, Axl remained eccentric and never became the "guy next door", so I don't think his "regret" has mostly to do with that.

Never seen that before, thanks for sharing.

I find that excerpt very interesting, and I do think it says a lot about who Axl is as a person in some ways.

 

On 14.7.2017 at 7:06 AM, Blackstar said:

I agree with the insecurity/over-sensitivity point, but, on the other hand, those other musicians and the media were making fun of him already in 1992, yet he did the Estranged video (and the Since I Don't Have You one after that, which was in a similar vein).

This is why I believe that it has mostly to with him having regrets for exposing himself/his feelings and his personal life so much (in the videos as well as in interviews). Right after this quote, he indirectly renounced even the SCOM video (he hadn't been made fun of for that) saying that it wasn't what he originally wanted to do; thank god though that the plot he said he had in mind for the video was rejected by the label (if that story was true at all).

11 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, I read your previous response and it makes a lot of sense in the way you put it.

Maybe I did not express myself very well but what I meant is that Axl could have given a different response and not transmit that feeling of insecurity. Stand by what you created back then because its not like he was forced to make those videos. They were his idea, he wanted to expose his "emotional destruction" like that and there must be a reason behind it. He could have defended the idea instead of calling them "corny", because even if for some people they look like that, when you get to know all the details behind them, the stories that lead to those images, to that script, you understand the videos and what he wanted to achieve with them.

So this is why I think he sounded insecure when saying those things.... but maybe he was not ready to talk in depth about that and decided to agree with the "common opinion", which is sad (to me), but probably the easiest and fastest way to get out of that question.

On 14.7.2017 at 2:56 PM, killuridols said:

I do think this as well. To me it is basically him feeling embarassed of how much he exposed himself with his feelings towards Erin and Stephanie. The three videos are related to these relationships and the Making of, he also exposes himself with all the shit he talks about Dylan. If he ever watched that in retrospect, he must have cringed at the crazy things he said.

In the making of Estranged, he says he doesnt know any other artist who has shown their own emotional destruction like he did in that video. He seemed proud of that at the moment.

So when in 2011 he talks about them as "corny", I understand this as he is talking about Nov Rain video mostly, essentially because of the wedding and the feelings associated to it: sentimental, romantic, but excessive with all the imagery about prince, princess, church, the dress, the orchestra, the reception, the cake, etc.

And I agreed with @Frey's points about Axl being extremely insecure and changing his mind all the time. Also, always asking opinion on what he should or shouldnt do and relying too much on what others think of him.

This insecurity makes him an easy target for all kinds of people. He doesn't know what he wants and he tries to follow the fads, instead of being himself. 

So he's probably convinced himself to think the videos are corny because Kurt and the grungies thought they were shit videos.

I agree with Axl having regrets about exposing himself and his feeling so much (I think it's very telling he was still upset in 2012 about the public reaction to his early 90s interviews for example), but I also feel the same way as  @killuridols in wishing he would have had the balls to just stand by what he created and why it was important to him at the time.

Saying "I had my reasons for making these songs/videos and I'm still proud of them, even if I'd maybe do some things differently today." would have been so much more bad-ass and rebellious than just bending to the mainstream opinion and awkwardly mumbling "...yeah... I guess they were kinda awful and corny in retrospect..."

But Axl didn't have what it takes to do that back then, which is what makes him appear rather insecure and "weak". And rather easily influenced by what people are saying, but he's always been like that to some extent.

Mostly, I also just feel it's sad. People may think these videos are pompous and over the top or cringeworthy and that's their right (in fact I sort of feel the same way myself lol), but they were also hugely successfull and a lot of people do like them. And he did nothing wrong by making them. No reason for him to be ashamed of them now. If anything he should be proud of them.

 

 

 

 

[Darkenchantress]

Great. I personally find the video stupid as fuck but whatever. Actually, pretty much all the videos except the ones with the band performing ala WTTJ look ridiculous to me.  

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Frey said:

In my original post I said to me these years are as wasted as Axl's. Music/albums I don't like are of no use or importance to me

And in my original post I reacted on someone who said both of them wasted years of their life. And that's not true. Axl has as an artist because he only released one album since 1991 and Slash hasn't because he released a lot more. Although I guess you can say that at his creative peak in the 90s he didn't release much either, but he kinda made up for it since 2000. 

The fact that you don't like his music is of no relevance to his creative output. I don't care about Velvet Revolver either, but I can't say that he's been wasting his years NOT releasing music, like you know who.

[Frey]

15 minutes ago, EvanG said:

And in my original post I reacted on someone who said both of them wasted years of their life. And that's not true. Axl has as an artist because he only released one album since 1991 and Slash hasn't because he released a lot more. Although I guess you can say that at his creative peak in the 90s he didn't release much either, but he kinda made up for it since 2000. 

The fact that you don't like his music is of no relevance to his creative output. I don't care about Velvet Revolver either, but I can't say that he's been wasting his years NOT releasing music, like you know who.

Why should I care about how many solo albums they put out when I'm not particularly interested in them anyway? Even if they both had put out 15 solo albums each, I'd still call these years wasted because all I (and every other GNR fan for the most part) wanted was more GNR albums, not a ton of mediocre solo albums by all 5 of them. Since they all aren't as good on their own as they're together, I'd even question the creative or artistic merit of the stuff they did put out. So Slash and Duff might as well have gone off and disappeared for a couple of decades like Axl and Izzy did, for all the impact Loaded, SMKC and so on left on me and the world at large.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Frey

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, Frey said:

Why should I care about how many solo albums they put out when I'm not particularly interested in them anyway? Even if they both had put out 15 solo albums each, I'd still call these years wasted because all I (and every other GNR fan for the most part) wanted was more GNR albums, not a ton of mediocre solo albums by all 5 of them. Since they all aren't as good on their own as they're together, I'd even question the creative or artistic merit of the stuff they did put out. So Slash and Duff might as well have gone off and disappeared for a couple of decades like Axl did, for all the impact Loaded, SMKC and so on left on me and the world at large.

 

But that is your opinion and that's fine. Not everyone agrees.

As an artist Slash has been creative and releasing music. Maybe Axl has been creative too, but he's got nothing to show for. And I consider all those years he didn't release music as wasted. You can't say that about Slash who has been releasing albums consistently since 2000. I'm sure he's happy with his output, and so are a lot of his fans. That some internet person like you doesn't care about it doesn't matter. Maybe to you, but no one else.

Edited July 15, 2017 by EvanG