Hypothetic Scenario

[LA_0013]

Ok, I'm gonna ask a totally hypothetical situation here and it's with regard to people's inflated expectations for the new album. I asked the same question some time ago but thought I'd post again with so many new members on the forum.

It was a Zakk Wilde interview I read where he said he was really looking forward to CD like the next person, but he believes expectations are so high that even if the album is pretty good, people will ultimately be disappointed. Kinda like after hearing all the songs for the first time, people will be like "Is that it? Is that what we waited over a decade for? Its good, but it's not THAT good!" In other words, the myth and enigma of the album will be over, and people will realise that music is music, it ain't gonna be that different.

Ok, so imagine in '91 GNR only released UYI 1, and UYI 2 didn't exist at that moment in time. Now lets say CD is released now, and the content is exactly that of UYI 2, with Axl's vocals and the new band playing all the tunes. Would you be happy with that?? Would you listen to the album and think, "Whoa, thats incredible."

To an extent I kinda agree with what Zakk is saying, which is a real shame. I'm the first to admit, I fuckin love UYI 2, a great album, and the diversion from Appetite with songs like Civil War and Estranged was great. But if CD were this album i'd be disappointed. Kinda strange considering how much I love this album! (?). Point proven. .

My point is that most might be expecting an album of the quality that is next to impossible to achieve. I think that waiting and waiting and waiting for this album and the ongoing journey that has been Chinese Democracy might be a dis-service to Axl, coz anything less than mind-blowing will be unsatisfactory. And I think this has seriously affected Axl's decision not to release this album in recent times. He realises that this album more or less has to be the ' Sgt Pepper' of rock albums for it to be deemed a success. So would you be happy if it were UYI 2? Some may be, but I'm sure most really are expecting much more, possibly even far too much from CD.

(By the way, for the record I'm more than sure the album WILL be mind-blowing! My thoughts on this band seriously changed after seeing them twice this summer.....) rock2

LA

Edited September 5, 2006 by LA_0013

[bucketmaster101]

I'm understanding you, as a direct result of Axl trying to make it perfect, in a sence he made it imperfect. Its strange how that works

[LA_0013]

and if Slash was playing on it, many more would agree imho.

UK SUBS.

Sad, but very true. . .

LA

[Guest cherry_bomb]

of course they are.

13 years in the making, people are going to be expecting a masterpiece.

even if it is, some critics arent going to admit it. like the kerrang review of download 0 out of a possible 5. some people just have a vendetta against him and dont like his work ethics, and unfortunately that will overshadow the quality of the music for some people.

im just happy its coming out, im curious, excited, and i dont think i'll be disappointed.

[November_rain]

of course they are.

13 years in the making, people are going to be expecting a masterpiece.

even if it is, some critics arent going to admit it. like the kerrang review of download 0 out of a possible 5. some people just have a vendetta against him and dont like his work ethics, and unfortunately that will overshadow the quality of the music for some people.

im just happy its coming out, im curious, excited, and i dont think i'll be disappointed.

Cherry you read my mind

[Axls_Disillusion]

yes that 0 out of 5 is just kerrang being hateful. nonsense.

[Guest cherry_bomb]

yes that 0 out of 5 is just kerrang being hateful. nonsense.

yeah, well kerrang are a joke. shit magazine, horrofic music channel.

[W. Axl Kev]

and if Slash was playing on it, many more would agree imho.

UK SUBS.

Sad, but very true. . .

LA

What fuckin' rubbish! Buckethead is a far more talented guitarist than Slash is. Why wouldn't people prefer to have the combined work of two musical ''geniuses'' like Axl & Bucket. I think that after the album is released Buckethead will rejoin Guns N' Roses.

[Guest cherry_bomb]

and if Slash was playing on it, many more would agree imho.

UK SUBS.

Sad, but very true. . .

LA

What fuckin' rubbish! Buckethead is a far more talented guitarist than Slash is. Why wouldn't people prefer to have the combined work of two musical ''geniuses'' like Axl & Bucket. I think that after the album is released Buckethead will rejoin Guns N' Roses.

dream on! buckethead will never come back to gnr. i seriously doubt they'd have him back anyway.

buckethead is technically the best, no doubt. but he wasnt GNR. buckethead rules as a solo artist. he just didnt fit in gnr.

[LA_0013]

and if Slash was playing on it, many more would agree imho.

UK SUBS.

Sad, but very true. . .

LA

What fuckin' rubbish! Buckethead is a far more talented guitarist than Slash is. Why wouldn't people prefer to have the combined work of two musical ''geniuses'' like Axl & Bucket

Um..... just a stab in the dark, but maybe because Buckethead won't be on the album?......

LA

Edited September 5, 2006 by LA_0013

[W. Axl Kev]

Um..... just a stab in the dark, but maybe because Buckethead won't be on the album?......

LA

Buckethead will be on the album. Thal himself said that he came in too late to re-record his parts.

[LA_0013]

Um..... just a stab in the dark, but maybe because Buckethead won't be on the album?......

LA

Buckethead will be on the album. Thal himself said that he came in too late to re-record his parts.

Dude, I don't like to argue when I'm not 100% certain myself, but what I will say is that I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if Buckethead features on CD. . . . . .

LA

[F*ck Fear]

When it's in my cd player, I am judging the tunes for what they are, tunes. I don't care how long it's been, if it's good, that should be it.

People that expect something mind blowing will be dissapointed, but too fucking bad for them then

[Charles Manson]

Um..... just a stab in the dark, but maybe because Buckethead won't be on the album?......

LA

Buckethead will be on the album. Thal himself said that he came in too late to re-record his parts.

Nobody truely knows of course but I would guess he wont be on it.

I just can't see Axl allowing his parts to still be on it.

Personally, I'd prefer it if they were left on B)

UK SUBS.

I pray to god they are, I wouldnt want Finck to re-record his parts!!!

[Longpig]

I think the initial reaction will be somewhat subdued and people will be a bit "so that's what all the fuss was about then....".

But if it's as good as I think it is, then by mid-2007 everyone will be lauding it as a masterpiece and it'll win a lot of awards next year...

LP

[Sjakalen]

Ok, I'm gonna ask a totally hypothetical situation here and it's with regard to people's inflated expectations for the new album. I asked the same question some time ago but thought I'd post again with so many new members on the forum.

It was a Zakk Wilde interview I read where he said he was really looking forward to CD like the next person, but he believes expectations are so high that even if the album is pretty good, people will ultimately be disappointed. Kinda like after hearing all the songs for the first time, people will be like "Is that it? Is that what we waited over a decade for? Its good, but it's not THAT good!" In other words, the myth and enigma of the album will be over, and people will realise that music is music, it ain't gonna be that different.

Ok, so imagine in '91 GNR only released UYI 1, and UYI 2 didn't exist at that moment in time. Now lets say CD is released now, and the content is exactly that of UYI 2, with Axl's vocals and the new band playing all the tunes. Would you be happy with that?? Would you listen to the album and think, "Whoa, thats incredible."

To an extent I kinda agree with what Zakk is saying, which is a real shame. I'm the first to admit, I fuckin love UYI 2, a great album, and the diversion from Appetite with songs like Civil War and Estranged was great. But if CD were this album i'd be disappointed. Kinda strange considering how much I love this album! (?). Point proven. .

My point is that most might be expecting an album of the quality that is next to impossible to achieve. I think that waiting and waiting and waiting for this album and the ongoing journey that has been Chinese Democracy might be a dis-service to Axl, coz anything less than mind-blowing will be unsatisfactory. And I think this has seriously affected Axl's decision not to release this album in recent times. He realises that this album more or less has to be the ' Sgt Pepper' of rock albums for it to be deemed a success. So would you be happy if it were UYI 2? Some may be, but I'm sure most really are expecting much more, possibly even far too much from CD.

(By the way, for the record I'm more than sure the album WILL be mind-blowing! My thoughts on this band seriously changed after seeing them twice this summer.....) rock2

LA

Very good post m8! Chinese Democracy will not get great attenion in the music industri. it just cant...and without good pr its hard to get sucsess nowadays!

Edited September 5, 2006 by Sjakalen

[deegg]

i see your point and it is possible but this is what i think

CD is not based on the old 80 90's rock well not all on that anyways axl has moved it a step forward by adding new styles of music into the songs, wait i dont mean axl i mean the entire band cause they all do it so yeah the entire band and i think its going to bring more new fans into the light and not just to keep the old fans in because were all loyal where here to stay.

now this is my general take on the none guns n roses fans, people who dont really know guns n roses will know these songs

paradise city

scom

ycbm

novemberain

welcome to the jungle

maybe knocking on heavens door and live and let die too

because these all there most id say popular songs know to to none fans, for example you go into a pub of club and sometimes u hear one of these songs. And this is none gnr fans im talking about that recignise these songs

so what if CD is an entire album of songs that match these ones that are known to everyone including none gnr fans? and it becomes a huge sucess

if you understand what i mean :S lol i dont think im good at explaining myself

and maybe its to pull more new fans in and new fans wouldnt have listen to the old stuff really... so they dont know what to expect so if its good it hits em hard n there like whoa! i like this! and then they will buy the next album and next album and maybe the previous ones too

[Axls_Disillusion]

OK.

A_D, see how your shit affects peoples threads?

We get it you think Slash is over-rated(which happens to be complete nonsense btw, however obviously you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else).

Why should LA0013's thread have to be cleaned/edited/moved to D+B as a direct result of your stupidity?

Leave the mods and the Admin to sort out people bashing Axl, RObin, etc. While you relax and enjoy the forum.

Lawrence, back off also buddy.

I've only publicly said this to prevent further good threads being locked or moved.

Wise up or move on!

*cleaned*

UK SUBS.

with all due respect Subs, I had no intentions of stirring any shit. I was simply agreeing with your original post that people wont accept this simply because there is no slash. That is a big reason I feel he is overrated because some people are so obsessed with slash that they hate anything that isn't slash.

and as far as lawrence goes, he and I both agreed to put each other on ignore, which is an agreement i have kept because I find his posts trolling and I've never really liked him every since he used to cupcake with that lame shit.

[Ridin' the Nightrain]

If anything, my expectations are pretty low. I do like the new songs, and they're growing on me more all the time, but I'm just not sure if we'll get the quality of Better, IRS and The Blues or rubbish stuff like Silkworms and Rhiad on the album.

I think my expecations being that low will mean I'll be pleasantly surprised. The same thing happened with Contraband, I didn't know what to expect, and I thought it would be a letdown, then what d'ya know, I loved it.

I'm sure closer to the release the hype will get to me and my expectations will go up, but I'm never going to expect an album that can match the quality of the old band.

So, who knows. Axl has a fair chance to really impress me here. Hopefully he will.

[teknophyle83]

One thing I think everyone is forgetting is that those of us who hang out on GNR forums are the vast minority of the people who will buy this album. Your average person is going to go to the record store, notice Chinese Democracy sitting on the shelf, and say, "Oh, cool! A new GNR album!"

They won't have waited 13 years for the album. To them, it won't be any different than Elton John's record that took several years, or Billy Joel, or any number of other renowned musicians who have spent years on one album. To them, "worth the wait" won't be part of the equation; unfortunately, I fear that the musical press will base their entire opinion of the album upon how long it's taken to come out, and that could prove to be disastrous.

[LA_0013]

They won't have waited 13 years for the album...To them, "worth the wait" won't be part of the equation; unfortunately, I fear that the musical press will base their entire opinion of the album upon how long it's taken to come out.

Good point

LA

[W. Axl Kev]

What fuckin' rubbish! Buckethead is a far more talented guitarist than Slash is. Why wouldn't people prefer to have the combined work of two musical ''geniuses'' like Axl & Bucket. I think that after the album is released Buckethead will rejoin Guns N' Roses.

Oh please!

Maybe because they think Buckethead does NOT fit the image of gnr and never will. He's the opposite of what this band always stood for. He's a fucking freakshow! Tallent yes, but personaly I hate his playing style and I hate how it works in the band. There's more to fitting in a band than tallent.

As far as I was concerned the original post was regarding the music of 'Chinese Democracy' as was my reply. Who cares if you don't like how he dresses? I always thought that Guns N' Roses prided themselves on being exactly who they were and not what people wanted them to be? So if you think about it that way, Bucket fits perfectly into what this band has stood for.

Maybe there is more to fitting a band than talent but that wasn't the purpose of this discussion nor does it matter when the discussion is focused on talent.

So please yourself man

[W. Axl Kev]

I would reply objectively to your post but I don't know how to break it up like you do so I'll just post this again and hopefully get away with it.

I don't know why Axl wants this new-era type of guitar shredding in his music and to a certain extent I agree that Bucket is a bit automatic but Guns has not been about the badass pack of 5 since 1987 so it has to be pretty much focused on talent now because it isn't the 80's anymore.

[dan303]

As far as I was concerned the original post was regarding the music of 'Chinese Democracy' as was my reply.

As was mine. Bucket is out of the band. I'd hate for his parts to still be there for the reasons I already gave.

Who cares if you don't like how he dresses? I always thought that Guns N' Roses prided themselves on being exactly who they were and not what people wanted them to be? So if you think about it that way, Bucket fits perfectly into what this band has stood for.

Maybe so. But what Guns n' Roses to me has always been about are normal every day guys that everyone could relate to. Guys that were in your face straight forward rock, what you see is what you get. It's about fire and passion. It never was about weird gimmicks, weird ourfits, rubber chickens, nunchuk dances and hiding behind a mask on a stage like some space-age freak. And that's what Buckethead is to me. Guns n' Roses to me are those guys you can look in their eyes, watch their face, and see them radiate the passion for what they do. Needless to say any of that is impossible with Bucket. I'll say it again, flame me people, A FUCKING FREAK!!

Aside from that there's playing style. Which (and I KNOW I'll get my ass flamed for this by all the chicken-lovers out there) in Bucketheads case NEVER managed to strike me as passionate. His space-age play didn't fit in the gnr musical book AT ALL. And yes, before anybody asked I did try a few of his solo albums and I have heard what he can do.

Maybe there is more to fitting a band than talent but that wasn't the purpose of this discussion nor does it matter when the discussion is focused on talent.

Who decided it was purely focussed on tallent? I do believe it was focussed on gnr and what goes best in the band.

So please yourself man

Username

when it comes to BH - i couldnt have said it better myself

[fantomas]

As I said in a previous post. CD will be exactly like The Phantom Menance. A commercial success and a critical flop.

Fans will sweep it off the shelves by the truck load and commercially it will do very well. I'm thinking debut at #1 on the billboard charts and hold it for a week or two. It will go platinum very qucikly.

Critics and reviewers will almost guaranteed not get past the fact that it took so long to make. They will harp on about AFD and Slash and bitch about the new members. The music will be completely over shadowed by childish rants and digs at Axl's personality. At least we'll get to see true colors. Now, on saying that I'm not saying that any reviewer who gives it a bad review is a bad reviewer, there is a chance, no matter how remote that CD will be crap. Then the bad reviews will be justified. I just think it will be a great, yet far from perfect album that will be a great addition to the GnR library that should be reviewed as a new album from a great band and not a work of art 13 years in the making. AFD and UYI were far from perfect.

As I said. The Phantom Menace all over again. Great memories of original product. Follow up 16 years in the making. Impossibly high expectations, commercial winner and slammed by critics.

Axl will need to keep his chin and judge his success based purely on fan response. We respond through ticket sales and CD's.