Will You Burn Copies Of 'Chinese Democracy' For Friends?

[Lukinx]

Oh, I totally agree that the RIAA's claims of losses are grossly overstated. They mistakenly assume that just because something is downloaded, the downloadee would have otherwise purchased what they have. As I stated before, I personally download music on a try-before-I-buy basis. I buy a TON more CDs now that I can download than I did before, because now and then I'll just search for something on a whim, download it, and if I like it I'll run out and buy it.

The RIAA poured out its own dishwashing liquid, and now it's soaking in it. They are the only ones who can fix their own problems relating to supposed losses from internet sharing, and the solution isn't millions of dollars in lawsuits.

Exactly. I totally agree with this.

I am just like you, just that I also have songs of bands where I just like one or two songs. I dont buy an album for that anymore, its not worth it. But if I really like the band I buy the album and catch the next show I can with them. And I belive many people are like this and thats why I am so against these law suits and the back talking about filesharing. It´s really scary if you ask me. They dont care if they destroy people´s lives by suing them, they just care about making profits.

That's a fair opinion, but it's a very short-sighted one. Suppose everyone held that point of view? There would be no music industry at all.

The way we get new music is because the industry is willing to take a risk on a band with an edgy new sound. The more and more they get strapped for cash, the less likely they will be willing to take a chance on a new, young band like GNR were in the mid-80's that could potentially turn music around.

We'll be destined to things like the recorded crap from American Idol winners, because those are the only things the labels will be able to bank on. For the health of music in general, people need to support these artists and their labels now.

No, because we all prioritize different bands. Its not likely that everyone will choose one favourite band all over the world and its the same band for everyone and thats why this is not really a problem. We all have different tastes and different ways we like to enjoy music and support bands. It all works out justfine in the end, I belive. So I dont think my opinionis short-sighted at all.

And business is taking risks, but right now major labels are in the business of brain washing when they bribe radio stations for extra air time cause they know this is a way to get people hooked etc etc to be able sell us crappy bands that are just products. Filesharing can make these things go away because I belive that in the long run it will sort out all the bad artists from the good cause we can all check out for ourselves for free which albums are worth spending our hard earned money on. This is what they (the labels and other profti hungry corporations) really fear because they dont want us to have that kind of power.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Lukinx

[teknophyle83]

Learn how to spell before criticizing me on anything, much less a point that you obviously didn't read all the way through.

Its called a typo. I'm not writing a fucking paper. You can stop nit picking.

Aww. Here's a Kleenex.

If I like it enough to keep it, I buy the album. I have downloaded music to try it; if I don't like it enough to buy it, I get rid of it. I don't download shit because I'm too cheap to buy the CD, or because I want to "stick it to the man".

Right so you download music to preview it? How is that "legal"... You should buy the album to preview!!

And you want us to believe every song you have downloaded you delete if you don't eventually get the album?

Yet AGAIN you have completely ignored my point. Where did you come into this anyway? I was having a civilized debate with Lukin, I didn't intend to deal with any non-reading morons.

It has nothing to do with being cheap. Maybe not everyone has money to buy all the CDs they want. Does that mean they shouldn't be able to listen to the music? I guess your saying they don't have that right.

Uh, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'd like a new BMW, but I can't afford it. Does that mean it's cool for me to just go steal one instead? I guess you're saying I have that right. Different scale, same issue.

[Appetite 4 Axl]

Yet AGAIN you have completely ignored my point. Where did you come into this anyway? I was having a civilized debate with Lukin, I didn't intend to deal with any non-reading morons.

Nice to see you are avoiding the question.. again. The point is I don't believe you don't have songs downloaded from albums you don't own.

I came into this because I am responding to your post.

If you don't feel you need to respond to me then don't.. no one is making you. Yet you still continue to do so.

Uh, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'd like a new BMW, but I can't afford it. Does that mean it's cool for me to just go steal one instead? I guess you're saying I have that right. Different scale, same issue.

You can't compare music to a BMW. So hence- not the same issue AT ALL.

[*bad obsession*]

When it comes out we need people set up in all areas of NA to phone in radio stations, email them, get requests for them to play it. Just for the new stuff to flow better.

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

Yet AGAIN you have completely ignored my point. Where did you come into this anyway? I was having a civilized debate with Lukin, I didn't intend to deal with any non-reading morons.

Nice to see you are avoiding the question.. again. The point is I don't believe you don't have songs downloaded from albums you don't own.

I came into this because I am responding to your post.

If you don't feel you need to respond to me then don't.. no one is making you. Yet you still continue to do so.

Uh, yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'd like a new BMW, but I can't afford it. Does that mean it's cool for me to just go steal one instead? I guess you're saying I have that right. Different scale, same issue.

You can't compare music to a BMW. So hence- not the same issue AT ALL.

actually its the exact same issue, both are stealing.

[teknophyle83]

Nice to see you are avoiding the question.. again. The point is I don't believe you don't have songs downloaded from albums you don't own.

I came into this because I am responding to your post.

If you don't feel you need to respond to me then don't.. no one is making you. Yet you still continue to do so.

Read above where I said:

Oh, I totally agree that the RIAA's claims of losses are grossly overstated. They mistakenly assume that just because something is downloaded, the downloadee would have otherwise purchased what they have. As I stated before, I personally download music on a try-before-I-buy basis. I buy a TON more CDs now that I can download than I did before, because now and then I'll just search for something on a whim, download it, and if I like it I'll run out and buy it.

And if I don't, I get rid of it. The ONLY exception is if its something that can NOT be bought, such as Slash's Godfather theme that was done live. I'm not talking about a strictly legal issue here, I'm talking about supporting a band.

Hopefully that will answer your question.

You can't compare music to a BMW. So hence- not the same issue AT ALL.

How is the situation any different?

Edit: Ugh, I keep messing up all these quote things.

Edited October 20, 2006 by teknophyle83

[Appetite 4 Axl]

Ok the BMW analogy does not make sense to me.

I am able to buy a CD and make a copy of it for my friend- my friend and I both have the CD.

If I buy a BMW and someone steals it I don't have the BMW anymore - it was stolen from me.

Plus its not fair to compare something like music to a material possesion like an expensive car. Its easy to find free music- the radio plays music.. you can record that if you wish, is that stealing too? You can't really find free BMWs anywhere.

I just don't think that analogy makes a good point.

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

Ok the BMW analogy does not make sense to me.

I am able to buy a CD and make a copy of it for my friend- my friend and I both have the CD.

If I buy a BMW and someone steals it I don't have the BMW anymore - it was stolen from me.

Plus its not fair to compare something like music to a material possesion like an expensive car. Its easy to find free music- the radio plays music.. you can record that if you wish, is that stealing too? You can't really find free BMWs anywhere.

I just don't think that analogy makes a good point.

his point is that music should be payed for, by not paying for the music, your stealing it.

kind of like, if you have a BMW that you didn't pay for, your stealing it.

You see, you don't fork the money for it, your stealing it. It's very simple.

Oh and if you have your cd stolen, it'll be gone, you won't see it again. Your arguments make no sense.

Music is a material possesion to artists, they put theyre hard work into making it, the radio is a means of advertisement, like BMW commercials are.

[Appetite 4 Axl]

his point is that music should be payed for, by not paying for the music, your stealing it.

kind of like, if you have a BMW that you didn't pay for, your stealing it.

You see, you don't fork the money for it, your stealing it. It's very simple.

Oh and if you have your cd stolen, it'll be gone, you won't see it again. Your arguments make no sense.

Music is a material possesion to artists, they put theyre hard work into making it, the radio is a means of advertisement, like BMW commercials are.

But I did pay money. I bought a CD, but I made a copy for someone.

My friend does have the CD now but he didn't steal from anyone either. He didn't go to the store and steal a CD so now there is one less CD. He would not have bought the CD either way. And the CD he has doesn't have the cover art.. case.. etc - its a different version of the original thing we are talking about.

Once again.. radio playing the music and BMW commercial, that does not correlate. You can record the songs you hear on the radio and replay them whenever you want - so now you own that song. If you see a BMW commercial.. there is no way to get the BMW...

I just don't think that way of thinking is the best way to go about it.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Appetite 4 Axl

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

his point is that music should be payed for, by not paying for the music, your stealing it.

kind of like, if you have a BMW that you didn't pay for, your stealing it.

You see, you don't fork the money for it, your stealing it. It's very simple.

Oh and if you have your cd stolen, it'll be gone, you won't see it again. Your arguments make no sense.

Music is a material possesion to artists, they put theyre hard work into making it, the radio is a means of advertisement, like BMW commercials are.

But I did pay money. I bought a CD, but I made a copy for someone.

My friend does have the CD now but he didn't steal from anyone either. He didn't go to the store and steal a CD so now there is one less CD. He would not have bought the CD either way. And the CD he has doesn't have the cover art.. case.. etc - its a different version of the original thing we are talking about.

Once again.. radio playing the music and BMW commercial, that does not correlate. You can record the songs you hear on the radio and replay them whenever you want - so now you own that song. If you see a BMW commercial.. there is no way to get the BMW...

I just don't think that way of thinking is the best way to go about it.

hmm, well I find it ironic that you criticize my way of thinking, when I'm not the one doing something illegal here.

[Appetite 4 Axl]

hmm, well I find it ironic that you criticize my way of thinking, when I'm not the one doing something illegal here.

Sorry - but I just don't care.

Downloading and burning CDs isn't the only illegal thing I have done / do.

And before you put on the halo, ask yourself if you have ever done anything that is considered "illegal" ?

And just because its illegal, doesn't mean its wrong. The world is not black and white as you seem to see it.

I don't feel guilty because I don't believe I am doing anything wrong. Oh well. My friends are gonna get to enjoy CD wheather they decide to buy it or I burn them a copy.

[teknophyle83]

But I did pay money. I bought a CD, but I made a copy for someone.

My friend does have the CD now but he didn't steal from anyone either. He didn't go to the store and steal a CD so now there is one less CD. He would not have bought the CD either way. And the CD he has doesn't have the cover art.. case.. etc - its a different version of the original thing we are talking about.

Once again.. radio playing the music and BMW commercial, that does not correlate. You can record the songs you hear on the radio and replay them whenever you want - so now you own that song. If you see a BMW commercial.. there is no way to get the BMW...

I just don't think that way of thinking is the best way to go about it.

Your very first sentence is where the problem comes from. We're not talking about stealing from you or stealing from the store. We're talking about stealing from the artist and their record label.

Maybe the reason you're having a hard time grasping the BMW analogy is because music is an intellectual property, vs. the car being a material property. Fair enough.

Let's say, theoretically, that you spend 100 hours and $10,000 programming a sweet new video game. You don't do this out of the goodness of your heart to give out; you do it to make a name for yourself, and a nice profit if possible. In order to make up your investment, at $50/each, you need to sell 20,000 copies, assuming your time is worth $100/hour.

So, you put it out there. 10,000 people buy it. Each one gives a copy to his or her friend, because that's not stealing, is it? Suddenly, the 20,000 people that you needed to buy your game to break even have your game, but only half of them bought it...you're in the hole and out of business.

An extreme example, sure, but it's the exact same situation. If you give away somethiing that costs money, you are stealing it by making duplicate copies and distributing them. Your friend is stealing it because now they own something that they should have paid for but didn't have to.

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

hmm, well I find it ironic that you criticize my way of thinking, when I'm not the one doing something illegal here.

Sorry - but I just don't care.

Downloading and burning CDs isn't the only illegal thing I have done / do.

And before you put on the halo, ask yourself if you have ever done anything that is considered "illegal" ?

And just because its illegal, doesn't mean its wrong. The world is not black and white as you seem to see it.

I don't feel guilty because I don't believe I am doing anything wrong. Oh well. My friends are gonna get to enjoy CD wheather they decide to buy it or I burn them a copy.

first and foremost, you don't know me, so you can't pass judgement on who I am, or how I see this world.

[Livewirecs]

Look, no one buys CDs anymore.

The reason I say that is to get out ahead of the "but you are ripping the band off" arguement, because I want to take it in a different direction.

Because once the CD comes out, I will in fact buy it. And I am going to burn copies for everyone who asks for one. I am going to post it on message boards I go to where people ask me about the band.

Why? Because Axl's promotional skills are laughable, and we are going to have to do the legwork for him. It is we, the diehard fans, who are going to have to sell this thing to our friends and such and hope it goes from there.

So what do you think? Will you do similar things??

Meh...cupcake Job = 1.5

[teknophyle83]

hmm, well I find it ironic that you criticize my way of thinking, when I'm not the one doing something illegal here.

Sorry - but I just don't care.

Downloading and burning CDs isn't the only illegal thing I have done / do.

And before you put on the halo, ask yourself if you have ever done anything that is considered "illegal" ?

And just because its illegal, doesn't mean its wrong. The world is not black and white as you seem to see it.

I don't feel guilty because I don't believe I am doing anything wrong. Oh well. My friends are gonna get to enjoy CD wheather they decide to buy it or I burn them a copy.

You honestly don't see anything wrong with stealing? So I could come over to your house, break in, and steal your computer, and you'd be cool with that? I can have your car? How about your wallet?

I mean, I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong there, and I do other illegal stuff too, so that makes it okay, right?

Edited October 20, 2006 by teknophyle83

[GET OFF AXLS BACK]

Some of you people need to lighten up

America's most wanted A4A

Hand yourself in to be stoned A4A

[teknophyle83]

Okay, I'll be fair. Downloading/pirating music is a situation that's easy to see from both sides. What's good for consumers is often not good for industry, and vice-versa.

But in some cases, it is up to the consumer to be able to see what's bad for everyone. Downloading and/or just handing out entire albums of material is bad for everyone; the artist in the short-term, the consumer in the long-run.

I held views similar to A4A years ago, before I got involved with the music business. Now that I've seen it from both sides, I have to side with the industry side of the argument. As I said above, I don't agree with the RIAA's tactics, but I do agree with their cause and their purpose.

If you refuse to pony up $10-15 for a CD that's been 13 years in the making, you are not a GNR fan. You are, at best, a cheap bastard.

Thank you.

[Bucketslash]

Look, no one buys CDs anymore.

The reason I say that is to get out ahead of the "but you are ripping the band off" arguement, because I want to take it in a different direction.

Because once the CD comes out, I will in fact buy it. And I am going to burn copies for everyone who asks for one. I am going to post it on message boards I go to where people ask me about the band.

Why? Because Axl's promotional skills are laughable, and we are going to have to do the legwork for him. It is we, the diehard fans, who are going to have to sell this thing to our friends and such and hope it goes from there.

So what do you think? Will you do similar things??

No real GNR fan would download the album - let alone burn copies for friends. This album has taken almost a decade for Axl to put together: Clearly, he has put all of his heart, soul, time and energy into this project. So, for some little punk to come along and tell everybody he plans to download it and burn copies for pals - is just disrespectful, selfish, and wrong. Shame on you.

atleast he was an honest jackass

lets consider that while we burn him at the stake and make it a little quicker

that means more napalm than gasoline

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

Okay, I'll be fair. Downloading/pirating music is a situation that's easy to see from both sides. What's good for consumers is often not good for industry, and vice-versa.

But in some cases, it is up to the consumer to be able to see what's bad for everyone. Downloading and/or just handing out entire albums of material is bad for everyone; the artist in the short-term, the consumer in the long-run.

I held views similar to A4A years ago, before I got involved with the music business. Now that I've seen it from both sides, I have to side with the industry side of the argument. As I said above, I don't agree with the RIAA's tactics, but I do agree with their cause and their purpose.

If you refuse to pony up $10-15 for a CD that's been 13 years in the making, you are not a GNR fan. You are, at best, a cheap bastard.

Thank you.

and just like that, you have instantly gained a whole lot of respect from me right there.

[teknophyle83]

Then my day is complete.

[ASLayerAODsk]

actually...i live in Canada..and downloading here, isnt illegal, and neither is burning cds theres a tarrif on our blanks that goes to the artists so i wont feel bad at all giving out the album to many and i know ill be one of the first in my area to have it id be more than happy to buy it...ive been asking at my record stores for month when itll come out..and i intend to buy it...but ill dl it asap, no question there the demos/leaks have been nice to keep me wanting more/teasing, but i want the real thing

hurry up and release the album Axl...dont u think uve spend enough on it already?

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

actually...i live in Canada..and downloading here, isnt illegal, and neither is burning cds theres a tarrif on our blanks that goes to the artists so i wont feel bad at all giving out the album to many and i know ill be one of the first in my area to have it id be more than happy to buy it...ive been asking at my record stores for month when itll come out..and i intend to buy it...but ill dl it asap, no question there the demos/leaks have been nice to keep me wanting more/teasing, but i want the real thing

hurry up and release the album Axl...dont u think uve spend enough on it already?

first, thats a disillusion you have, you probably also think we decriminalized marijuana as well. They had talked about it, but decided to fuck it, and are about to pass a law internationally that bans illegal download and distribution of a copied cd. You also use too many freaking smilies.

[avg_]

to all those fucks who want to copy the cd, fuck you

you tightass idiots, axl has spent what? appoximately 13mill on making this cd, and your all going to go out and burn it, just so your friends can get it for free, your stealing from one of your most favourite musicians. some fan you turned out to be..

[Chris 55]

People are gonna do what they're gonna do. Regardless of what they read on a messageboard. As for me, I'm buying it, ripping it to my ipod and that'll pretty much be it.

[ASLayerAODsk]

umm...well...currently in Canada its not illegal to dl music or movies. as long as you buy blanks and i NEVER said i wouldnt NOT buy the album...ill just have no problem dl'ing the first leaked copy either. it just sucks they compress all the music on cd's..and makes the quality just terrible

would you buy a tv that says its a 32" tv but they compress it, 'but all the picture is still there?'