Will You Burn Copies Of 'Chinese Democracy' For Friends?

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

Well, to be honest quite a lot of my non-gnr worshipping friends no longer recognize GNR.. They still think along Axl, Slash, Duff ect.. So if to get them to listen to the damn album I have to burn it for them.. Or maybe just play them the album I will quite happily do that just to know whether they like it or not..

Yeah. Maybe it is ripping of the band a little bit, but hey, if I buy the album and let them listen to it.. Or make them a copy if they really like it, they WILL go buy the album for the proper experience..

Just my opinion..

xDSGx

problem with that is, 99% of people will not go out and buy it after.

[cold_as_ice]

I don't know if I'm going to burn copies for my friends.

I don't think they even like GN'R.

So, there may not be a problem!

[Lukinx]

yes a decent newb, I love you lol, and welcome to the forum

Now, copying a cd is in no way a promotion for the band, it's in fact taking away sales they could other wise have.

The music industry as we know it is dying, in front of our eyes because of piracy. If this trend continues, it's estimated that most bands will just pack it up, and the music industry would die out in 5 years. Which, would mean that no more new music.

This is not true. The only thing that is MAYBE not making as much money as before are the BIG labels. But music is much cheaper to make, produce, record and distribute with all the new technology still the record prices would not go down. The reaction to this was filesharing which many people now see as a substitute for actually owning records. The record companies have themselves to blame for being profit hungry ass holes who never gave a rats ass about the people actually making them rich. They try to sell you sob storys about bands not making cash anymore but this is not true. The small bands make more money now cause more people can hear them thanks to fiel sharing. Concert sales are peeking right now (at least in Sweden and I belive its the same all over the globe) cause people can check out more bands through filesharing than they ever dreamed of. And do you really think bg bands like GN´R will suffer a major loss from people not buying the CD and instead downloading it? Just think about the money they made on the european tour with ticket sales and merch-sales with almost no promotion-costs. If filesharing is stealing you could concider it taking some money back from the greedy music industry and major labels for not listening to the public that has been protesting against too high record prizes for very long. Now they want us to pay the ammount people said was fare for a CD for so called legal mp3-dowloads. They need to rethink the whole thing or just go away. Major labels are not really needed anymore.

And as I stated in my other post, people in here with these anti-filesharing-opinions seem to want people not to hear the new gn´r rather than download it? And also, not everyone has the money to prioritize albums, should these people be stuck with watching MTV and not be able to enjoy the music they want? People still buy records, no matter what the major labels try to fool you all to belive. Go to your local record stores and look inside why dont you. And dont buy their sob storys about starving artists and that msic is losing in quality from filesharing cause this is not true either. Music should gain in quality through file sharing cause filesharing is a great way to sever the good music from the shit music which shoudl generate better music in the future.

So, please get off your high horses and let people enjoy music in the way they feel suit them. I rather people listen to what they like and buy the records they feel like than that they have to buy everything they ever feel like listening too. I bet many of you in here are downloading other artists but just feel this way about GN´R and that sounds a little like a hypocrite thing to do.

Firstly, I'm a musician, don't try to sound like you know about the business more then I do. I also happen to have worked in a record shop, and know many people who still do. Record sales have massively dropped in the past 5 years, and will much more in the next 5 years if nothing will be done. Imagine if they don't, imagine we're in 2011, and now, all bands and artists choose to just tour, and play the same old songs night after night, and not play or write a single new song, just cause like you said, "they make all they're money off of touring." People like you, are exactly what is going to cause the music industry to crash. But, with new laws being put in order, I guess you're going to have a good time in court, explaining why you violated copyrights.

Just because it's accessible, doesn't mean it's not illegal, and when you do lose your case, I'll be the first to laugh at you. Oh, and for the record, I do not download music by any means other then iTunes.

I am also a musician (fromt he punk/hc scene) and that still don´t change my opinion. It´s funny you would like me be sued for thousands or maybe millions of dollars for downloading and claiming people like me are destroying the music industry (feel free to look at my record collection: http://pop.nu/show_collection.asp?user=6727 and take a guess at how many bands I go see monthly). I hope the music indsutry reforms around filesharing cause hunting down music lovers (the customers) with laws is just insane and I don´t know how anyone can support this. You may feel that you want big business to control you and your music ans a musician, well I don´t. The figures about record sales being down have not been proven (or maybe you could show me that link cause if they have then they must be out on the www, right). And do you really belive in your own futuristic presentation of bands not making new music and just touring? ANYONE can make a good sounding record today with very little capital (you should know this since you know "the business") so why shouldn´t they? It´s pretty funny to me that you as the mucician you claim to be see this vision as a posibility, cause if you have toured you know it sucks playing the same old songs over and over again, you do that for the people in the crowd more than for yourself. Personally I am always dying to play my newsest stuff and often think my new songs are the best. So I think your vision is very much not a true one. You can buy the major labels arguments as much as you want but you will never be able to back them up, no matter how much you wish to see kids like me in jail. Very humane, dude.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Lukinx

[D-GenerationX]

Well, to be honest quite a lot of my non-gnr worshipping friends no longer recognize GNR.. They still think along Axl, Slash, Duff ect.. So if to get them to listen to the damn album I have to burn it for them.. Or maybe just play them the album I will quite happily do that just to know whether they like it or not..

Yeah. Maybe it is ripping of the band a little bit, but hey, if I buy the album and let them listen to it.. Or make them a copy if they really like it, they WILL go buy the album for the proper experience..

Just my opinion..

xDSGx

problem with that is, 99% of people will not go out and buy it after.

Were they ever going to buy it anyway though?

[DopeSickGirl]

Well, to be honest quite a lot of my non-gnr worshipping friends no longer recognize GNR.. They still think along Axl, Slash, Duff ect.. So if to get them to listen to the damn album I have to burn it for them.. Or maybe just play them the album I will quite happily do that just to know whether they like it or not..

Yeah. Maybe it is ripping of the band a little bit, but hey, if I buy the album and let them listen to it.. Or make them a copy if they really like it, they WILL go buy the album for the proper experience..

Just my opinion..

xDSGx

problem with that is, 99% of people will not go out and buy it after.

Were they ever going to buy it anyway though?

Exactly! And to be honest, whether they buy it or not at least they're gonna hear it that way.

[cold_as_ice]

Well, to be honest quite a lot of my non-gnr worshipping friends no longer recognize GNR.. They still think along Axl, Slash, Duff ect.. So if to get them to listen to the damn album I have to burn it for them.. Or maybe just play them the album I will quite happily do that just to know whether they like it or not..

Yeah. Maybe it is ripping of the band a little bit, but hey, if I buy the album and let them listen to it.. Or make them a copy if they really like it, they WILL go buy the album for the proper experience..

Just my opinion..

xDSGx

problem with that is, 99% of people will not go out and buy it after.

Were they ever going to buy it anyway though?

No. And they probably won't even listen to it.

Just, maybe, they'll listen to 2 songs that are going to be singles.

(I hate people who do that)

[D-GenerationX]

Well, to be honest quite a lot of my non-gnr worshipping friends no longer recognize GNR.. They still think along Axl, Slash, Duff ect.. So if to get them to listen to the damn album I have to burn it for them.. Or maybe just play them the album I will quite happily do that just to know whether they like it or not..

Yeah. Maybe it is ripping of the band a little bit, but hey, if I buy the album and let them listen to it.. Or make them a copy if they really like it, they WILL go buy the album for the proper experience..

Just my opinion..

xDSGx

problem with that is, 99% of people will not go out and buy it after.

Were they ever going to buy it anyway though?

Exactly! And to be honest, whether they buy it or not at least they're gonna hear it that way.

Which, to me, is more important than anything.

It means maybe they would be inclined to go to a concert for instance. ANd don't kid yourselves, THAT is where the bands make their money. It ain't on albums.

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

first, how would I get sued like you will? I don't download music illegaly, I purchase music on iTunes.

heres an article from 2003 from BBC:

Gloom settles on global CD sales

Oasis singer Liam Gallagher

Oasis called fans who downloaded their latest album "thieves"

The global slump in music sales gathered pace in 2002, music industry figures have revealed.

Sales dropped by 7% around the world last year after a 5% dip in 2001, according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI).

The industry's inability to beat what it has labelled internet pirates and the "massive proliferation" of CD copying have been blamed.

The IFPI recently said "piracy" put the jobs of 600,000 people in the industry at risk.

MUSIC FORMAT SALES 2002

CD albums - down 6%

Singles - down 16%

Cassettes - down 36%

VHS - down 42%

DVD - up 58%

Source: IFPI

Other factors in the slump were economic uncertainty and competition from DVDs and video games, the IFPI said.

But sales of music DVDs - up 58% - provided one note of optimism.

Stars including Madonna, Eminem, Sir Elton John and Britney Spears have all condemned unauthorised downloading, with Oasis branding fans who downloaded their latest album "thieves".

The United States suffered a 10% drop in album sales in 2002, mainly because fans were getting the music from the internet instead, the IFPI said.

Fewer major releases are selling in their multi-millions in the US, and record companies are trying to get to grips with the problem.

50 Cent

Rapper 50 Cent is leading sales in the US in 2003

Rock group Linkin Park imposed strict security on their latest album, Meteora, avoiding internet leaks - and going to number one last week, selling 800,000 copies.

Their 2001 debut sold 4.8 million copies in the US - but was reported to have been downloaded up to another eight million times.

In 2003, some albums are bucking the trend, with rapper 50 Cent selling four million copies in two months despite being leaked onto the internet.

Western European sales fared "relatively well", with France continuing to buck the global downward trend, the figures showed.

In the UK, a 3% drop ended five years of growth.

MAIN MUSIC MARKETS SALES 2002

Argentina - down 23%

Mexico - down 19%

Spain - down 16%

US - down 10%

Japan - down 9%

Germany - down 9%

UK - down 3%

France - up 4%

Brazil - up 4%

Source: IFPI

"This year's figures hold no surprises," IFPI chairman Jay Berman said.

"Widespread use of illegal sites, made easier with the growth of broadband access in the major markets, is affecting an industry that is also having to compete with increased sales of other entertainment formats such as DVD films and new video game consoles."

Worldwide music sales amounted to $32bn (£20.5bn), according to the figures.

There were also "exciting new opportunities" for the music industry, which was making headway in the battle against "piracy", Mr Berman said.

The music industry should be very careful when they accuse their customers of being criminals

Bill Thompson

Technology consultant

Other rays of light included the growth of new formats such as DVD Audio and Super Audio CDs, and a "very strong" release schedule.

Technology consultant Bill Thompson said individual fans who download songs should not be branded criminals, and that the growth of the internet may not be to blame for the slump.

"It's too easy for them to say that everyone who downloads is a pirate, but they should really only use that word for the larger scale organised criminals who make fake CDs and DVDs, not the home user," he said.

"If the record companies had given us a properly-priced, good quality music download service instead of just trying to hold on to the CD market we would all be happier now," he said.

The decline could also be explained by the fact that fewer CDs are being released and fans have finished replacing their vinyl albums with CDs, he said.

source

Online music sales are on the rise, but its still no where near the amount of money that the business once made. We will never be able to see an album out rank Thriller because of piracy. BTW, you lost all credibility when you said your in a punk band.

[maximo]

The only reason i would burn the cd is for my car and i dont think ill even do that.

[bass71player]

i just got back from the gym so i have some adrenaline pumping and this may come off real manic sounding

So what about the record stores across the country that are closing and people losing tens of thousands of jobs ? Maybe if you lost your job of 20 years you might feel otherwise. I have already lost 5 killer stores I have shopping at for 15 years.

i'll give it to you that it is very unfortunate that a ton of great independent music stores are suffering but 2 points come to mind:

1 - a lot of stores that are closing are chains and i have no sympathy for chains and i'm sure the underpaid 16 year old behind the counter will have no problem finding a new job

2 - there are stores that are thriving now more than ever. i'm from long island and one of the biggest stores is Looneytunes. what's awesome about them is that since they lost a lot of initial sales they had to come up with ways of getting customers in the door - recently they've had in-store appearances by slayer, body count, head automatica and a few years back even ozzy.

anyway, the main point of my post wasn't to slam prices on retailers (though large chains also help drive up prices) it's the record companies. i refuse to consistently support them.

High price still cannot justify theft.

that's exactly how i justify it... for every cd i steal on the internet, someone's getting ripped off and the record company still makes enough money to cover the loss of my potential sale.

like i said, i'll be buying cd but if my friends want a copy, i'll do like i do with any other band, put the entire discography on a CD-RW, rip it to their computer and take the cd back and erase it for next time

also i'm really sick of reading all this bullshit about how we're the ones who are going to promote CD. of course this will inadvertently happen if someone hears it via one of us and goes out and buys it, but i'm not gonna be distributing the fucking music (unless a friend asks). my job is to enjoy the music they spent a lot of time, money and energy on, not hype its release.

none of this makes anyone a better fan than anyone else, which is where this thread seems to be going (really didn't have the time to read every post). i think i'm just as big a fan as anyone with 6 trillion posts, i love the music like pretty much everyone here.

sorry if i sound like a dick, anyone who regularly posts in the anything goes and my world sections can vouche that i'm pretty objective about things. i'm just mad people berated the original poster for saying he would burn copies for his friends.

[Zeppelin]

Look, no one buys CDs anymore.

The reason I say that is to get out ahead of the "but you are ripping the band off" arguement, because I want to take it in a different direction.

Because once the CD comes out, I will in fact buy it. And I am going to burn copies for everyone who asks for one. I am going to post it on message boards I go to where people ask me about the band.

Why? Because Axl's promotional skills are laughable, and we are going to have to do the legwork for him. It is we, the diehard fans, who are going to have to sell this thing to our friends and such and hope it goes from there.

So what do you think? Will you do similar things??

That's the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

[Lukinx]

Jack_the_ripper, So lets say these %-figures are remotely true (which can be questioable). Do you have the figures for increasing concert sales so you can weight them against the ones you presented? Cause the music industry is NOT JUST record sales, now is it? IFPI is a crappy organisation that is for making laws to make the rich richer and suing kids and destroying their lives. You can support that if you want. And if it now is remotely true can the industry reform around filesharing to work this siuation out or is it better to chase people for downloading (which puts other crimes to the side cause economic crimes have a higher staus in all capitalistic countires)?

And btw I didnt write anything about you being sued. That wouldnt make sense since I am against big busuiness chasing people for downloading music (or other stuff), or did you miss that part? I also find it interesting how you just choose to answer 1 thing (the figures) from my posts. I try to answer all your arguments but you sort out the ones you think you have an argument for and leave the rest. I don´t think will ever see eye to eye on this issue and I think its too bad you rather see people in jail than people hearing music.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Lukinx

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

Jack_the_ripper, So lets say these %-figures are remotely true (which can be questioable). Do you have the figures for increasing concert sales so you can weight them against the ones you presented? Cause the music industry is NOT JUST record sales, now is it? IFPI is a crappy organisation that is for making laws to make the rich richer and suing kids and destroying their lives. You can support that if you want. And if it now is remotely true can the industry reform around filesharing to work this siuation out or is it better to chase people for downloading (which puts other crimes to the side cause economic crimes have a higher staus in all capitalistic countires)?

And btw I didnt write anything about you being sued. That wouldnt make sense since I am against big busuiness chasing people for downloading music (or other stuff), or did you miss that part? I also find it interesting how you just choose to answer 1 thing (the figures) from my posts. I try to answer all your arguments but you sort out the ones you think you have an argument for and leave the rest. I don´t think will ever see eye to eye on this issue and I think its too bad you rather see people in jail than people hearing music.

I don't want to see people in jail, just fined, no matter what, its copyright infringement, and it deserves to be punished. Concert sales are harder to determine, simply because stadiums can only fit a certain number of kids, The reason concert sales remain intact and unaffected is because its 2 different things seeing a band on a tv, and seeing them in front of you(which is partially also why I hate big arena gigs.) IFPI isn't the only company saying this, several searches and surveys say so by different firms. The industry could never reform around file sharing, too many people would be against it.

However, I will admit that the internet have helped bands to have followings and promote concert sales, I will not debate you on that part because your absolutly correct here. My problem isn't with kids who download 1 or 2 songs here and there, my problem is with the kids who download full albums. I can understand why you would want to download 1 or 2 songs from an album before buying it to make sure you like it. But, those who download full albums should be persued in a court of law.

[rider13]

I will burn 1 maybe 2 copies both for myself. 1 for the car. One for my workout room.

Fuck buying 2 CD's if I buy it and I burn a million fucking copies are for myself and do not sell them or give them to others IT IS MY FUCKING RIGHT TO DO SO. THE MUSIC INDUSTRY CAN LICK MY BALLS

[Vogstar90_G'N'R]

no decent fan would do that.

very true... if they want to hear the album they can come and listen to it at my place or go buy one.

I will burn 1 maybe 2 copies both for myself. 1 for the car. One for my workout room.

Fuck buying 2 CD's if I buy it and I burn a million fucking copies are for myself and do not sell them or give them to others IT IS MY FUCKING RIGHT TO DO SO. THE MUSIC INDUSTRY CAN LICK MY BALLS

yea that is all good, nothing against burning a copy for your car and work heaps of people do that, but this album is gonna be attached to my wallet its comming everywhere with me.

[Axls Rocket Queen]

No.

Axl needs our cash! B)

Yeah, how else is he gonna pay for all those roast lamb dinners?

[Iceman24]

No, defnitely not.

A friend of mine asked me to give him all the GN'R albums. I said: "no". I gave him one song from every album on his iPod, but I want him to buy the stuff. He bought already Appetite and he thinks it rocks, maybe he will buy more.

But I usually do not download or burn CD's, because I think, it's not right. I buy almost all the music I have.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Iceman24

[rider13]

No, defnitely not.

A freind of mine asked me to give him all the GN'R albums. I said: "no". I gave him one song from every album on his iPod, but I want him to buy the stuff. He bought already Appetite and he tinks it rocks, maybe he will buy more.

But I usually do not download or burn CD's, because I think, it's not right. I buy almost all the music I have.

True the one exception I have is Metallica they went after fans for downloading music instead of coming up with a real solution. I WILL NEVER BUY ONE OF THEIR ALBUMS BECAUSE NO BAND SHOULD GO AFTER THE FANS.

I-tunes as proven that most people will buy the product if they can. If they do not have an option to buy it then they will just download it anyways.

[Kobbeltvedt]

I will burn one for my car, one for my stero, and one I will never use lol

[tat2d1]

I've already told my friends to not even bother asking me to burn it for them. If they want it, they can buy it or find somewhere to download it themselves.

I will burn an extra copy of it for the car though.

[Guest Jack_the_ripper]

may I also underline the fact that I'm not condemning people who are gonna burn copies for theyre cars or whatever.

[Darth Vader]

I m not burring copies for Friends, they can go buy it just like everyone else.

[rocketking]

I m not burring copies for Friends, they can go buy it just like everyone else.

I know, dude! Ross and Rachel are like totally rich and even Joey has a good job now.... they can afford it.

[Axls Rocket Queen]

I m not burring copies for Friends, they can go buy it just like everyone else.

I know, dude! Ross and Rachel are like totally rich and even Joey has a good job now.... they can afford it.

[Wild Rose]

Look, no one buys CDs anymore.

The reason I say that is to get out ahead of the "but you are ripping the band off" arguement, because I want to take it in a different direction.

Because once the CD comes out, I will in fact buy it. And I am going to burn copies for everyone who asks for one. I am going to post it on message boards I go to where people ask me about the band.

Why? Because Axl's promotional skills are laughable, and we are going to have to do the legwork for him. It is we, the diehard fans, who are going to have to sell this thing to our friends and such and hope it goes from there.

So what do you think? Will you do similar things??

You wrote "WE,THE DIEHARD FANS"....WTF?!?!......

Yeah...sure...."we,the diehard fans".......but please don't ever dare again to think that you're one of us.....

A REAL DIEHARD FAN WOULD NEVER DOWNLOAD THE ALBUM OR MAKE COPIES OF IT!!!

By making copies of the album you're going to rob AXL after HE worked hard on it for so many years and put in it HIS hurted feelings....

HOW YOU DARE TO DO SUCH THING?.....YOU'RE JUST A DAMN THIEF.....