Jimmy Page post-Zeppelin

[foghat43]

Why do you think Page was not able to continue on with a succesful solo career after Zeppelin? Plant has put out a lot of quality music over the years and continues to release new music. Jimmy's guitar playing peers...Clapton and Jeff Beck...have also put out a lot of music as solo artists. Granted a lot of it has been hit and miss, but some has been really good. But from Page we've had the Firm (mediocre at best IMO), a solo album (a few good songs but overall not a very good album), Coverdale/Page (awful - what was Jimmy thinking!), the live show with the Black Crowes (I liked this one) and then the Page/Plant "reunion" that produced the live/unplugged album and the one studio album. I thought the Page/Plant studio album was a huge disappointment. And for me Jimmy's guitar playing was never the same after Zeppelin.

Just curious on what others think of Page post-Zeppelin...and if you agree that his post-Zeppelin work has been disappointing, thoughts on why that is?...did he regress as a guitar player, did he lose the drive/inspiration, was the death of Bonham and the end of Led Zep just too much to overcome, was it the heroin, etc.?

Will we ever see new material from Page?

[chevelle]

I'm going to be edgy and say that maybe he was never all that great to begin with, but got lucky by having the right band that he was a perfect fit for. And after it was over so was he.

[LightningBolt]

He's probably just not a very good songwriter on his own.

[Chewbacca]

After all those blues "covers" he did, I, too, think his writing skills weren't top notch as well. I think he really needed the rest of his band to get it rolling.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Not all the great to begin with????? What the fuck are you three smoking? Page was the mastermind behind probably 75% of everything Zeppelin ever did. If he hasn't released "quality" music post Zeppelin it's for these two reasons:

1. He didn't have a good songwriting partner post Zeppelin

2. He was so responsible for everythin Zeppelin that he just plain ran out of ideas and inspiration (it happens.)

I personally don't feel his post Zeppelin stuff is as bad as you three are making it out to be. Ok I'll admit it's not up to Zeppelin's lofty standards, but what is? Plus his reunion stuff with Plant was not intended to be "like zeppelin" they were being creative and trying new things, thats a good thing imo. Further more if Slash didn't have Myles, Weiland, and whomever else to partner up with, where would his career be? Most guitar players are awesome by themselves yes, but they need a creative partner; jagger/richards, axl/slash, eddie/roth, so on so fourth.

So back the fuck off the Page hatin'

[foghat43]

Actually IMO he was a geat songwriter (referring to writing the music, not necessarily the lyrics)...he wrote, played and produced.

[MEXzilla]

He's ok if anything when Led Zeppelin sounds dated its because his guitar, again he's good but in his era I think Hendrix and Clapton top him easily. Also Plant has 0 good material outside of Zep probably only that album with Alison Krauss but it's her material that's good and Plant hindered that album.

Yeah I'm not really digging their work after Zep.

[Iron MikeyJ]

These kids today.....

[LightningBolt]

Not all the great to begin with????? What the fuck are you three smoking? Page was the mastermind behind probably 75% of everything Zeppelin ever did. If he hasn't released "quality" music post Zeppelin it's for these two reasons:

1. He didn't have a good songwriting partner post Zeppelin

2. He was so responsible for everythin Zeppelin that he just plain ran out of ideas and inspiration (it happens.)

I personally don't feel his post Zeppelin stuff is as bad as you three are making it out to be. Ok I'll admit it's not up to Zeppelin's lofty standards, but what is? Plus his reunion stuff with Plant was not intended to be "like zeppelin" they were being creative and trying new things, thats a good thing imo. Further more if Slash didn't have Myles, Weiland, and whomever else to partner up with, where would his career be? Most guitar players are awesome by themselves yes, but they need a creative partner; jagger/richards, axl/slash, eddie/roth, so on so fourth.

So back the fuck off the Page hatin'

I don't think Slash is a good songwriter. Page wrote some good stuff with Led Zeppelin but I don't think you need to look hard for numerous examples of guys writing good music in a particular situation and just falling flat when they leave that situation. It happens all the time.

[OmarBradley]

Not all the great to begin with????? What the fuck are you three smoking? Page was the mastermind behind probably 75% of everything Zeppelin ever did. If he hasn't released "quality" music post Zeppelin it's for these two reasons:

1. He didn't have a good songwriting partner post Zeppelin

2. He was so responsible for everythin Zeppelin that he just plain ran out of ideas and inspiration (it happens.)

I personally don't feel his post Zeppelin stuff is as bad as you three are making it out to be. Ok I'll admit it's not up to Zeppelin's lofty standards, but what is? Plus his reunion stuff with Plant was not intended to be "like zeppelin" they were being creative and trying new things, thats a good thing imo. Further more if Slash didn't have Myles, Weiland, and whomever else to partner up with, where would his career be? Most guitar players are awesome by themselves yes, but they need a creative partner; jagger/richards, axl/slash, eddie/roth, so on so fourth.

So back the fuck off the Page hatin'

I agree that Page is not overrated, and was certainly behind as you said at least 75% of Zepp's music (remember, he produced every album, I think). Not to say each member of Zepp wasn't necessary, they were. But I do think Page's post Zepp release have been pretty eh compared to how good a guitarist he is. The Firm was OK, that solo album Outrider? Outsider? was OK, and I liked Coverdale/Page. I thought the Black Crowes CD sounded pretty eh, and the Page/Plant stuff was never meant to be rock (boy they really butchered some old Zepp tunes when they did those acoustic renditions...). I don't know, Page can still play, it's really tough to figure out why everything he did after Zepp just wasn't that good. I disagree that the reason Slash has done well is solely because he's been paired with good people. How were Paul Rodgers/David Coverdale playing with Page any different than Weiland/Kennedy with Slash. Slash continously writes great hard rock songs, no matter what singer/band he's with, the guy can write a hard rock tune, he doesn't need a writing partner for it. Having a good singer/drummer/bass/etc. in his band always helps his songs sound more dynamic, but Slash has a clear record of exceptional guitar songwriting abilities... and I hate to say: this isn't something I see from Page. There was some cool guitar work on the C/D album, but it's tough to find Page really shining on any other post Zepp material.

Page shouldn't need a songwriting partner to make good music, I really have no idea why his original music went so down hill after Zepp. Could have been the drugs, lack of motivation after Bonham died, or any of the other reasons mentioned here.

He's ok if anything when Led Zeppelin sounds dated its because his guitar, again he's good but in his era I think Hendrix and Clapton top him easily. Also Plant has 0 good material outside of Zep probably only that album with Alison Krauss but it's her material that's good and Plant hindered that album.

Yeah I'm not really digging their work after Zep.

I like some of Plants stuff, The Strange Sensation and the Might ReArranger had some cool stuff, didn't like Now and Zen much. To be fair I haven't heard all of hist post Zepp stuff.

I don't think Slash is a good songwriter. Page wrote some good stuff with Led Zeppelin but I don't think you need to look hard for numerous examples of guys writing good music in a particular situation and just falling flat when they leave that situation. It happens all the time.

Why? I think Slash is an exemplary songwriter (music). A true guitar composer.

[Facekicker]

For some reason I've always thought it was because he has been a horrible alcoholic since Zeppelin folded.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Well anyone that has studied Page (like I have), would be lying if I didn't say his playing has gone down hill. Honestly it happened while Zeppelin was still together. If you watch or hear shows from Zeppelin's final year or two you really hear that he lost something. I think it was without a doubt drugs. But saying that, Jimmy has had some moments of approaching his former brilliance, Celebration Day and the Black Crowes stuff namely. But you are right, even those are a step below his "prime". I love Celebration day, but many of the songs played on their, have 70's counter parts that are MUCH better. Kasmir, good times bad times, and for your life are the real standouts of the album. The later two being that they just weren't performed by Zeppelin live ever (GTBT perhaps a couple live versions may exist). In my time of dying also captures some of that 70's magic.

These are the things that Jimmy's "critics" or "haters" always point to, which really pisses me off. Was Jimmy inconsistent or even "sloppy" at times, yes. But he ha also played and wrote things so fucking brilliant that is as good or even better than ANY OTHER GUITAR PLAYER THAT HAS EVER FUCKING LIVED!!!

This is beyond fucking perfect...

And for anyone that thinks Jimmy can't still bring the heat...

[Facekicker]

I still love his work.

[Izzy_Stradlin_XX]

Ok, I'm gonna do a little bio on Jimmy here so everybody understands why they don't know what they're talking about.

Back in 1976 he started getting into heroin. I mean, he seriously started getting into it. By the 1977 American Tour he was completely hooked to it, he wasn't eating and the only thing he was getting into his body besides qualudes and dope was alcohol. The man looked like a skeleton with a guitar. That's why In Through The Out Door had such a little input compared to other Zeppelin albums. So he spent a tone of time trying to get the thing kicked after Bonzo died. He was depressed, just like Plant, after Bonzo died. I think Jimmy had it a little more rough than Robert because all in all Zeppelin was his band, it was his life, not that it wasn't for Plant, but when you think Zeppelin, you think Jimmy Page. I'd say that by 1982 he was so deep into the dope,

that we should thank lord that he's still with us today. In 1983 he was invited to participate in the A.R.M.S. shows, and you can see the videos on youtube. Jimmy was a shadow of himself. He wasn't happy with that, the fact is that, he wanted to get something started, but he just couldn't. There weren't many people that saw Jimmy like a good musician. Clapton and Jeff Beck helped him out with the ARMS shows, helped him kick the habit, but he delved into alcohol for the rest of the 80's all through the 90's.

People seem to forget that Jimmy had a lot of things going from the mid 80's until some years back. He had The Firm, that had some hits, had the Outrider album that didn't do so well, but still pretty good. Had Coverdale Page, had some success, and had Page and Plant that did very well in the 90's. To say he didn't have a successful career after Zeppelin just shows how much people actually know about him. He had a ton of stuff going on for him in the last three decades, people just seem to forget because he could never reach Zeppelian levels with another band.

About his playing, just listen to him in 1973 than listen to him in 1975. Thank you dope, for fucking up one of the greatest guitar players of all time. His playing was never the same after he started doing hard drugs.

EDIT: Seriously? Never much of a songwriter?? What about Kashmir? Dare I say, Stairway To Heaven?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Izzy_Stradlin_XX

[Sixes]

plus the Death Wish 2 soundtrack which isn't too bad

[OmarBradley]

People seem to forget that Jimmy had a lot of things going from the mid 80's until some years back. He had The Firm, that had some hits, had the Outrider album that didn't do so well, but still pretty good. Had Coverdale Page, had some success, and had Page and Plant that did very well in the 90's. To say he didn't have a successful career after Zeppelin just shows how much people actually know about him. He had a ton of stuff going on for him in the last three decades, people just seem to forget because he could never reach Zeppelian levels with another band.

About his playing, just listen to him in 1973 than listen to him in 1975. Thank you dope, for fucking up one of the greatest guitar players of all time. His playing was never the same after he started doing hard drugs.

EDIT: Seriously? Never much of a songwriter?? What about Kashmir? Dare I say, Stairway To Heaven?

I'm pretty sure we mentioned all of his post Zepp projects that you mentioned. No of course none of them would ever reach Zeppelian levels... but none of them were great, and I expected great from JP. C/D I think is his best all around work since Zepp, and that's not really saying much. I'd be careful to call his post Zepp career succesful, I mean it wasn't unsuccessful, but it also was by no means completely great. And "a ton of stuff"? He did what? 5-6 albums from 1980-2014..... that's not a lot at all. I guess he had a bit of trouble after Zepp fighting drugs/alcohol and that probably explains most of what we're talking about in this thread. The guy can still play though, no denying that.

[ZoSoRose]

Page is a legend for a reason.I've of the best rock writersand players in history.

Its clear the loss of Bonham and fall if Zeppelin hit him hard, but i would do anything to see him play in person one day.i enjoy parts of his post Zep work but it was never the same

Guys my musical hero but non bias aside, it us ignorant to say he isn't a good song writer.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ZoSoRose

[MEXzilla]

A lot of his best songs are derived from stolen parts granted he made them his with added layers of his doing but that still hinders his writing credibility imo.

[ZoSoRose]

A lot of his best songs are derived from stolen parts granted he made them his with added layers of his doing but that still hinders his writing credibility imo.

Really? Like what? Some songs off of Zeppelin I, II, and Stairway's intro is shaky, for sure, but his best songs?

Achilles Last Stand, Kashmir, No Quarter, Ten Years Gone, Bron Y Aur Stomp, That's The Way, the rest of Stairway, Heartbreaker, I can go on and on. Not to mention so many amazing guitar parts.

At the start of Zep he borrowed heavily from blues songs and Robert copied a lot of blues lyrics (which many bands did), but the only song I think really was a major issue was Dazed and Confused and the arrangement at least was pretty different.

[Izzy_Stradlin_XX]

A lot of his best songs are derived from stolen parts granted he made them his with added layers of his doing but that still hinders his writing credibility imo.

Really? Like what? Some songs off of Zeppelin I, II, and Stairway's intro is shaky, for sure, but his best songs?

Achilles Last Stand, Kashmir, No Quarter, Ten Years Gone, Bron Y Aur Stomp, That's The Way, the rest of Stairway, Heartbreaker, I can go on and on. Not to mention so many amazing guitar parts.

At the start of Zep he borrowed heavily from blues songs and Robert copied a lot of blues lyrics (which many bands did), but the only song I think really was a major issue was Dazed and Confused and the arrangement at least was pretty different.

Exactly. People only care about WLL; when they found out the first couple of chords from STH was in a Spirit song all hell broke loose, but they'd rather focus on 2 seconds than the entire Zeppelin catalogue. I've never seen anybody talk about how much he worked in Presence, how Hots On For Nowhere is a complicated song and was composed solely by Jimmy. What about ALS? The best Zeppelin song if you ask me. Led Zeppelin didn't steal or borrow anything from anybody, they just took their influences to a whole new level. As a group, Led Zeppelin didn't do anything that the other bands were doing.

[wasted]

It's a shame he could have just tour the Zeppaterial.

[moreblack]

I think part of the issue was that he tried to adapt too much to the music of the time. At least with the Firm, it's a very 80s style, and has not aged well. BUT he pulled off some of his best songs there, like Midnight Moonlight which he came up with before Zeppelin broke up, but never got to record it with the band. Outrider just didnt have much of a focus, and despite playing his ass off on it, there wasnt much that wouldve wowed the audiences at the time. That being said, the tour for that album was Page playing at the absolute peak of his abilities. Coverdale Page was exactly what you would expect, the riffs were great, David was in fine voice, its probably the most rocking of Jimmys post Zep efforts, and I gotta hand it to him there, he still got it. Page and Plant suffered a little too much from Plants aversion to heavy rock, we ended up with some really bizarre mellow stuff that didnt always work as well as it should have, Yallah, and Wonderful One are just dire. Things didnt really improve with Walking Into Claksdale, too much Plant weirdness, not enough Jimmy rocking. Black Crowes was fun as an exercise in reliving former glories, but didnt really bring anything new to the table.

[foghat43]

I agree that there were some decent riffs in the Coverdale/Page material, but there were hardly any solos and overall the album was weak. I think the lack of memorable solos on that album may be another indication that by that time Jimmy's playing had really regressed. And wtf was he thinking doing an album with Coverdale?

"Burning Up" was a great song IMO, but overall I didn't care much for Walking Into Clarksdale.

[ZoSoRose]

Im still praying we get one more tour it of him.its possible

[dalsh327]

I think part of the issue was that he tried to adapt too much to the music of the time. At least with the Firm, it's a very 80s style, and has not aged well. BUT he pulled off some of his best songs there, like Midnight Moonlight which he came up with before Zeppelin broke up, but never got to record it with the band. Outrider just didnt have much of a focus, and despite playing his ass off on it, there wasnt much that wouldve wowed the audiences at the time. That being said, the tour for that album was Page playing at the absolute peak of his abilities. Coverdale Page was exactly what you would expect, the riffs were great, David was in fine voice, its probably the most rocking of Jimmys post Zep efforts, and I gotta hand it to him there, he still got it. Page and Plant suffered a little too much from Plants aversion to heavy rock, we ended up with some really bizarre mellow stuff that didnt always work as well as it should have, Yallah, and Wonderful One are just dire. Things didnt really improve with Walking Into Claksdale, too much Plant weirdness, not enough Jimmy rocking. Black Crowes was fun as an exercise in reliving former glories, but didnt really bring anything new to the table.

I think Page tried to avoid becoming like Jeff Beck, endless touring of theaters and clubs, and would rather rest of his laurels. Jones should have been involved in Clarksdale but whether it's money, or trying to avoid a LZ reunion, excluded him, even though he was an in-demand producer/arranger in the 90s. It might have changed the direction of the album, even though he went WAY further than they did by teaming up with Diamanda Galas.

Outrider probably would have been a better 90s album if they hyped the guest singer appearances more and not just put Jimmy on the cover.