what would you consider the first true hard rock album?

[J Dog]

6 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

My vote goes to The Stooges' self titled. 

That was the first one I thought about.

Jimi and Zep both have strong cases too. I don't think an album has to be front to back, every song is a heavy headbanger to be considered a hard rock album though.

[Silverburst80]

1 hour ago, J Dog said:

That was the first one I thought about.

Jimi and Zep both have strong cases too. I don't think an album has to be front to back, every song is a heavy headbanger to be considered a hard rock album though.

See this is where things get confusing with labels and whatnot. The Stooges and also MC5 where labelled proto punk and aren't considered hard rock bands rightly or wrongly. Of course then peoples definition of what punk is can be different. For instance Duff who cut his teeth in the punk scene said Axl was more punk than any punk rocker he'd ever come across, alot of people would not agree with that i guess it's all a matter of opinion.

[J Dog]

I get that Iggy and the Stooges are punk. I don't care. Sounds like sleazy, dirty, hard rock n roll to me. Especially when you listen to what was getting played at the time.

[moreblack]

Even then, their first album came out in 69, and pretty much all the supposed hard rock pioneers had albums out by then.

[J Dog]

True. Which is why I also mentioned Zep and Jimi.

[Silverburst80]

32 minutes ago, J Dog said:

I get that Iggy and the Stooges are punk. I don't care. Sounds like sleazy, dirty, hard rock n roll to me. Especially when you listen to what was getting played at the time.

I tend to agree.  i don't really see whats punk, sonically , about the Stooges first album. People have to label things for whatever reason and most the time it's lazy journalism, " hey Alice in Chains are a popular band from Seattle, lets call them grunge!".

[action]

9 hours ago, moreblack said:

But the initial question was what was the first hard rock album. And while there some hard things in Hendrix's albums, it would be a bit of a stretch to call his albums hard rock. 

exactly.

led zeppelin 1 has too much other influences: psychedelic (dazed and confused) or folk (black mountain side) or blues (i can't quit you babe). it may have started hard rock in many songs, but it's not a hard rock album front to back , in the way something like "let there be rock" was

[HeartbreakerWoman]

punk rock isn't a genre. it's more of an attitude. i don't really see the big difference between early punk and early rock...it's just fuckin labels based on imagery. The elitism of punk intellectuals, however, is a huge turn off. "I like this underground record no one's ever heard of, so I'm better than you." Or, the "all hard rock is shite cause punk" mindset. I mean, being angry at the world all the time is no less tiresome than singing about elves all the time. Both are gimmicks and should be used sparingly in both cases.

[Len Cnut]

8 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

See this is where things get confusing with labels and whatnot. The Stooges and also MC5 where labelled proto punk and aren't considered hard rock bands rightly or wrongly. Of course then peoples definition of what punk is can be different. For instance Duff who cut his teeth in the punk scene said Axl was more punk than any punk rocker he'd ever come across, alot of people would not agree with that i guess it's all a matter of opinion.

Proto Punk is something it got called after the fact by a bunch of people trying to link them to the greater thing of what punk was, no one called it that when it was happening.

[Len Cnut]

15 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

My vote goes to The Stooges' self titled. 

Then explain We Will Fall . See a lot of what people miss about The Stooges is that they werent looking to be some kinda meathead band and really, in regards to substance, they werent. This band cut their teeth sticking mics in food blenders for crying out loud, they were actually trying to be quite experimental but with limited chops.  I mean now its just considered a consequence of musical ineptitude but really they were just making this fuckin Dadaist type sound.  Listen to that album, then listen to Funhouse, Funhouse has like an 8 minute track that has saxaphones on it, these guys jammed on Louie Louie also then you'd have em doing Cock in my Pocket with a kinda mad Jerry Lee piano on it, The Stooges dont really fit neatly into anything, to call them hard rock is just horrible though, they were way more than that.

2 hours ago, HeartbreakerWoman said:

punk rock isn't a genre. it's more of an attitude. i don't really see the big difference between early punk and early rock...it's just fuckin labels based on imagery. The elitism of punk intellectuals, however, is a huge turn off. "I like this underground record no one's ever heard of, so I'm better than you." Or, the "all hard rock is shite cause punk" mindset. I mean, being angry at the world all the time is no less tiresome than singing about elves all the time. Both are gimmicks and should be used sparingly in both cases.

Shut the fuck up Miser

Edited May 11, 2016 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

It is all a bit arbitrary, where rock n' roll ends, hard rock begins - and from that, heavy metal begins. It is reasonable to cite the power chord and the manipulation of distortion and you can see the roots of the genre in The Kinks ('You Really Got Me') and Link Wray. The Who's 'I Can See For Miles' was a landmark record no doubt, before Hendrix and Cream came along and the rest is history as they say.

[Len Cnut]

Thinking about it The Who might be a better shout than anything else.  

[Silverburst80]

8 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

Proto Punk is something it got called after the fact by a bunch of people trying to link them to the greater thing of what punk was, no one called it that when it was happening.

You could argue nobody called them anything because no-one gave a fuck at the time, Iggy's solo career taking off drew attention to them.

[Len Cnut]

11 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

You could argue nobody called them anything because no-one gave a fuck at the time, Iggy's solo career taking off drew attention to them.

Fair point!  Then again, they werent THAT unnoticed, they played to a massive outdoor crowd in a televised performance in 1970 for the Cincinnati Pop Festival, they got write ups in the English music papers, they must've been selling abroad to somebody for all these people abroad having heard them and covered them.  I guess they were just like one of those bands who got heard by all the right people, kinda like The Velvet Underground.

[Len Cnut]

20 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is all a bit arbitrary, where rock n' roll ends, hard rock begins - and from that, heavy metal begins. It is reasonable to cite the power chord and the manipulation of distortion and you can see the roots of the genre in The Kinks ('You Really Got Me') and Link Wray. The Who's 'I Can See For Miles' was a landmark record no doubt, before Hendrix and Cream came along and the rest is history as they say.

Perhaps its because Hard Rock is a vagueism and a nothing genre just was liking splitting hairs regarding the offshoots of rock n roll.

Thinking about it its gotta be The Who though surely?

[DieselDaisy]

It was left to Zeppelin however to bring in the elves.

[Silverburst80]

1 minute ago, Len B'stard said:

Fair point!  Then again, they werent THAT unnoticed, they played to a massive outdoor crowd in a televised performance in 1970 for the Cincinnati Pop Festival, they got write ups in the English music papers, they must've been selling abroad to somebody for all these people abroad having heard them and covered them.  I guess they were just like one of those bands who got heard by all the right people, kinda like The Velvet Underground.

They got noticed alright, seemed people were either running for the exits in terror or wanting to fight them which is awesome. I find it pretty fitting that Iggy and Josh Homme have done an album together their careers taken an eerily similiar path. Both started out in brilliant bands ( The Stooges and Kyuss )who were largely ignored through timing more than anything, then got successful in other ventures which drew attention to said bands that are now considered legendary.

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It was left to Zeppelin however to bring in the elves.

Reason i say The Who is cuz everything they did off their own back fits the hard rock mould, I mean once they stopped the covers, the maximum RnB it was all just pretty much hard rock...and i cant think of anyone else doing it that was so purely hard rock with no other elements involved (as was the case with Zep with the blues and all that).  And they was before Zep too.  It could've actually been The Kinks but they had way much more to do and say musically and branched out this way and that, its worth noting I Cant Explain is basically a Kinks knock off.  Link Wray was like hillbilly surf music.  Totally underrated guy by the way, Link Wray.  Very influential on The Stooges too.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Silverburst80]

12 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

Reason i say The Who is cuz everything they did off their own back fits the hard rock mould, I mean once they stopped the covers, the maximum RnB it was all just pretty much hard rock...and i cant think of anyone else doing it that was so purely hard rock with no other elements involved (as was the case with Zep with the blues and all that).  And they was before Zep too.  It could've actually been The Kinks but they had way much more to do and say musically and branched out this way and that, its worth noting I Cant Explain is basically a Kinks knock off.  Link Wray was like hillbilly surf music.  Totally underrated guy by the way, Link Wray.  Very influential on The Stooges too.

I think Keith Moon was always in hard rock band in his mind the way he played the drums from the outset.

[Len Cnut]

40 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

I think Keith Moon was always in hard rock band in his mind the way he played the drums from the outset.

He sort of invented that kind of drumming, didn't he?  It's prodigious in it's own sense but it's not jazz, it's not soul, it's not...i dunno what it is actually!  Most of it is a consequence of showing off, doing as many little fills or whatever in the most typically inappropriate places...and then instead of keeping the beat attempting to follow what the singer was doing and interpret that through drumming.  He listened to music like a fan, a young fan and most young fans all they hear is guitar and singing and he just kinda followed that.  If you think about it's the most unique musical dynamic cuz Moonies playing some kinda weird lead stuff, so's Entwhistle, so Townshend sort of had to keep it simple so as to have some kind of balance, in a sense he was doing the drummers job and it's from there that his sort of style came about, very heavy and dense because how else do you stand out in a band with those two, though to give Pete his credit he was quite a show off himself onstage as well as being a fantastic songwriter.  He has a very spanishey touch to some of his playing too, in terms of the strumming.  God i love that band.

[bran]

keith moon was an animal on the drums.

[action]

32 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

He sort of invented that kind of drumming, didn't he?  It's prodigious in it's own sense but it's not jazz, it's not soul, it's not...i dunno what it is actually!  Most of it is a consequence of showing off, doing as many little fills or whatever in the most typically inappropriate places...and then instead of keeping the beat attempting to follow what the singer was doing and interpret that through drumming.  He listened to music like a fan, a young fan and most young fans all they hear is guitar and singing and he just kinda followed that.  If you think about it's the most unique musical dynamic cuz Moonies playing some kinda weird lead stuff, so's Entwhistle, so Townshend sort of had to keep it simple so as to have some kind of balance, in a sense he was doing the drummers job and it's from there that his sort of style came about, very heavy and dense because how else do you stand out in a band with those two, though to give Pete his credit he was quite a show off himself onstage as well as being a fantastic songwriter.  He has a very spanishey touch to some of his playing too, in terms of the strumming.  God i love that band.

I can see their ability in a live setting. live at leeds was a great album.

but what studio album by The Who would you consider to be a textbook example of a complete hard rock album?

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, action said:

I can see their ability in a live setting. live at leeds was a great album.

but what studio album by The Who would you consider to be a textbook example of a complete hard rock album?

OK...not the debut cuz thats very rhythm n blues-ish.  The second one perhaps, A Quick One?  Then again that has songs like Heatwave, Bucket T and Barbara Ann on it.  The Who Sell Out is pretty much out n out hard rock I'd say.  Tommy too, Who's Next too, Quadrophenia too, The Who by Numbers too.  But then even the debut, though it's very rhythm and blues-ish it doesn't sound very rhythm and bluesy because it's a bunch of crazy West London hooligans playing it.  Perhaps thats what hard rock is, white working class headbutters playing rhythm n blues and making it more about the thump and less about the swing.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

It is more in the singles that I see the roots of hard rock, 'I Can't Explain', 'My Generation', 'I Can See For Miles'. The Kinks and The Who were the first two bands to be regular practitioners of the powerchord preceding Hendrix, Jeff Beck and Cream by a year or two. I tell you one iconic moment in the creation of hard rock: the opening feedback of 'I Feel Fine' by The Beatles. It was an eureka moment in the sense that, suddenly feedback was not something to be eradicated from the recording studio but something to be embraced and manipulated.

Edited May 11, 2016 by DieselDaisy
Misplaced noun instead of its cognate verbal past

[Len Cnut]

38 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is more in the singles that I see the roots of hard rock, 'I Can't Explain', 'My Generation', 'I Can See For Miles'. The Kinks and The Who were the first two bands to be regular practitioners of the powerchord preceding Hendrix, Jeff Beck and Cream by a year or two. I tell you one iconic moment in the creation of hard rock: the opening feedback of 'I Feel Fine' by The Beatles. It was an eureka moment in the sense that, suddenly feedback was not something to be eradication from the recording studio but something to be embraced and manipulated.

Ticket to Ride is quite heavy too really.