West Arkeen

[Słash]

I was wondering if West Arkeen was still alive, would he be in the current line up of GNR? He was close to all the members and even co wrote some of the songs, so after Izzy left, why dint Wes join the band during the illusions Era and after Gilby was kicked out, why did Axl call Paul Douchebag Tobias in the studio and not Wes?

[gnrjanus]

He passed away on may 30th 1997 due to drug overdosis.

He wrote some songs with Axl,del and the band

[Słash]

He passed away on may 30th 1997 due to drug overdosis.

He wrote some songs with Axl,del and the band

Yeah I know he passed away in 1997, but why dint he play shows with GNR when Izzy left in 1991? why did Axl call Paul in 1994 or 1995 in the studio for Sympathy for the devil and CD and not Wes?

[nico_france]

I think it is a good question : )

I remember having seen the same topic in another place on the forum (maybe in Canter Banter)...

West Arkeen was gifted... Listen for example his project "the Outpatience"!

[stella]

Interesting question. Any chance he was asked and said no? He certainly could have covered Izzy's parts. Or, perhaps, he was busy with his own band?

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

Edited February 21, 2015 by stella

[dalsh327]

If you're good friends with 2 people who are having a pissing match and the band is falling apart, no plans to tour anytime soon, and trying to get your own project off the ground?

He was 37 when he passed, so he was older than everyone else in the band.

[tinyrobot]

Some people have talent but don't have the strength to become rock stars and deal with all it implies. Maybe Wes was weak in that sense and that's why he never made the band.

If he had trouble with drugs and therefore, passed away, it's obvious he couldn't have handled GNR success.

I like that song he did with Axl and Slash, Anxious Disease. If only GNR had taken that directions for the next album after TSI...

[Brunzopolis]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

[tinyrobot]

Interesting question. Any chance he was asked and said no? He certainly could have covered Izzy's parts. Or, perhaps, he was busy with his own band?

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

Definitely, all those people meant a lot to him... I guess he was even affected by Kurt's death...

I admire how Axl didn't get dragged by all these deaths. At some point, when I found out about all that, I thought he was the next. Fortunately, we still have him with us. Gotta be thankful for that.

[DieselDaisy]

He was a lead guitarist, a shredder. Also, he was on the junk and there were already enough members in the band, strung out. He also had his own band.

[stella]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

Edited February 21, 2015 by stella

[Liquor & Whores]

West death was so unfortunate, I think he just took too much drugs to kill the pain after he got these burns...

His management company said that Arkeen had been at home recovering from severe burns, and that his death was the result of an "accidental opiate overdose." West had returned to his home from a hospital intensive care unit where he was being treated for burns over much of his body after his indoor barbecue exploded 11 days before his death.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Liquor & Whores

[Silent Jay]

He was a lead guitarist, a shredder. Also, he was on the junk and there were already enough members in the band, strung out. He also had his own band.

I always thought his guitar solo on Crash Diet was strong enough.

[Brunzopolis]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

I got confused when writing that timeline out, so just for the sake of being factual: Slash left in Oct. 96; so, five months after Axl's mom died.

And then, yeah, like you say, Duff soon after. Aug 97' is what seems to be the agreed upon date. And Matt, sometime a little before that.

I've always found it a bit odd that Duff was the last one to leave.

I just finished reading Mick Wall's Axl bio, which he just recently updated and re-released. There are a lot of things wrong in, and about, the book, but one thing reading it did for me, was seeing this time period we are discussing, in a new way.

[stella]

I think out of all of them, Duff understood Axl the most and was genuinely friends with him, and that was probably a huge part of why he stayed. In his book he mentions that they talked about heavy stuff even back in the Hellhouse days, and that when he had his medical crisis, Axl was the one person in the band who was there for him. Plus in his book he also mentions that he perhaps understood Axl's psych/emotional issues better than the other guys because he had his own issues with panic attacks. There are a couple of videos from the Illusions tour where Duff is the one who is talking Axl down from the ceiling and is the only person on the stage who even dares to approach Axl, so I'd believe that. So I think Duff stuck it out as long as he could because he didn't want to abandon a friend.

[MrSoftie]

I think out of all of them, Duff understood Axl the most and was genuinely friends with him, and that was probably a huge part of why he stayed. In his book he mentions that they talked about heavy stuff even back in the Hellhouse days, and that when he had his medical crisis, Axl was the one person in the band who was there for him. Plus in his book he also mentions that he perhaps understood Axl's psych/emotional issues better than the other guys because he had his own issues with panic attacks. There are a couple of videos from the Illusions tour where Duff is the one who is talking Axl down from the ceiling and is the only person on the stage who even dares to approach Axl, so I'd believe that. So I think Duff stuck it out as long as he could because he didn't want to abandon a friend.

Definitely think that's the case. Even taking a look at the 2014 Guns shows with Duff it looks like there's just a connection between them, Axl really seems to lean on him, and it brings out the best in him.

[Estranged Reality]

he helped write crash diet, right? always thought that was a solid tune.

i like axl's rasp, and the gritty production. i'm sure the final version would have sounded cleaner, but the rough demo feel is part of its charm.

but what do i know... i also like just another sunday.

[Dr. Who]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

Stephanie Seymour sues Axl in August 1993, his lawsuit is settled with her sometime in 1994

Axl has a relationship with Jenny Driver from 1993 through at least June 1994

Erin Everly files suit against Axl in March 1994

Kurt dies April 5th 1994

Duff's pancreas explodes May 10th, 1994

Gilby is fired in June 1994

The Paul Tobias fight over Sympathy is October 1994

Erin's lawsuit with Axl is settled April 20th 1995

Stalker Karen MacNeil breaks into Axl's house April 27th 1995, is removed, returns April 30th

Shannon Hoon dies October 21st, 1995

Gilby sues Axl/GNR in early 1996

Steven sues GN'R for a second time in 1996

Axl's mother dies May 28th 1996, around this time wild fires nip at his home

Slash makes his departure official October 31st 1996

West Arkeen dies May 30th 1997

Duff leaves the band the first week of August 1997

As far as Moby is concerned, however, "the ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him." (1997)

“He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious,” says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. “He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog.”

[Tom2112]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

I got confused when writing that timeline out, so just for the sake of being factual: Slash left in Oct. 96; so, five months after Axl's mom died.

And then, yeah, like you say, Duff soon after. Aug 97' is what seems to be the agreed upon date. And Matt, sometime a little before that.

I've always found it a bit odd that Duff was the last one to leave.

I just finished reading Mick Wall's Axl bio, which he just recently updated and re-released. There are a lot of things wrong in, and about, the book, but one thing reading it did for me, was seeing this time period we are discussing, in a new way.

Yeh, that book is complete crap. Mick Wall painted a very one side picture of Axl. There's almost nothing positive about Axl in that entire book. I know some of you would argue that Axl is a complete tool and that he is everything that Mick wall says, that's fair enough, but from reading Duffs book, and listening to the Craig Duswalt interviews etc. he comes across a whole lot more compassionate and loyal than Mick Wall would have you believe.

[Tom2112]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

I got confused when writing that timeline out, so just for the sake of being factual: Slash left in Oct. 96; so, five months after Axl's mom died.

And then, yeah, like you say, Duff soon after. Aug 97' is what seems to be the agreed upon date. And Matt, sometime a little before that.

I've always found it a bit odd that Duff was the last one to leave.

I just finished reading Mick Wall's Axl bio, which he just recently updated and re-released. There are a lot of things wrong in, and about, the book, but one thing reading it did for me, was seeing this time period we are discussing, in a new way.

Yeh, that book is complete crap. Mick Wall painted a very one side picture of Axl. There's almost nothing positive about Axl in that entire book. I know some of you would argue that Axl is a complete tool and that he is everything that Mick wall says, that's fair enough, but from reading Duffs book, and listening to the Craig Duswalt interviews etc. he comes across a whole lot more compassionate and loyal than Mick Wall would have you believe.

[spliff]

he helped write crash diet, right? always thought that was a solid tune.

i like axl's rasp, and the gritty production. i'm sure the final version would have sounded cleaner, but the rough demo feel is part of its charm.

but what do i know... i also like just another sunday.

"rare video" lol.. I like that song but can't see slash playing that solo.. it's all west

Edited February 21, 2015 by spliff

[stella]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

I got confused when writing that timeline out, so just for the sake of being factual: Slash left in Oct. 96; so, five months after Axl's mom died.

And then, yeah, like you say, Duff soon after. Aug 97' is what seems to be the agreed upon date. And Matt, sometime a little before that.

I've always found it a bit odd that Duff was the last one to leave.

I just finished reading Mick Wall's Axl bio, which he just recently updated and re-released. There are a lot of things wrong in, and about, the book, but one thing reading it did for me, was seeing this time period we are discussing, in a new way.

Yeh, that book is complete crap. Mick Wall painted a very one side picture of Axl. There's almost nothing positive about Axl in that entire book. I know some of you would argue that Axl is a complete tool and that he is everything that Mick wall says, that's fair enough, but from reading Duffs book, and listening to the Craig Duswalt interviews etc. he comes across a whole lot more compassionate and loyal than Mick Wall would have you believe.

I agree. I am not a fan of Mick Wall at all. I mean, the title of the book is "William Axl Rose," he couldn't even get the guy's name right? That's never, ever been Axl's name. Mick Wall had an axe to grind, and he did. And there seems to be a British-American cultural divide there as well. I remember there's one stupid story about how Mick asked Axl's brother for an egg cup and Stuart had no idea what he was talking about, and Mick took that as a sign of low breeding...um, maybe it's more that people in America don't routinely use friggin' egg cups?!

Edited February 22, 2015 by stella

[Brunzopolis]

I wonder if West's death was one of the things that really made Axl withdraw (or continue to) in the late 90s. First Shannon Hoon, and then West, died horribly. On the Eddie Trunk interview when Baz asked about West, he still seemed very upset about it, and understandably so.

And in between those two deaths, his mom died, and Slash left. Hoon in Oct. 95. Then his mother on May 28, 96', then almost exactly one year later, Arkeen dies. Then five months after that, Slash leaves.

I think you're totally right. He'd been in a bad state already (you could maybe argue his whole life) with the Stephanie stuff, then this quick succession of more bad news, and that all led to the recluse years/the person Axl is today.

Jeez. I didn't realize his Mom's death was right in that same time frame, too. And when I think of it, Duff left around 97ish which isn't too far after all of this. No wonder he felt abandoned by the world; he basically lost almost every close friend he had between 1995 and 1997. That's enough heartbreak to make anyone want to go live in a cave and withdraw from the world.

Stephanie Seymour sues Axl in August 1993, his lawsuit is settled with her sometime in 1994

Axl has a relationship with Jenny Driver from 1993 through at least June 1994

Erin Everly files suit against Axl in March 1994

Kurt dies April 5th 1994

Duff's pancreas explodes May 10th, 1994

Gilby is fired in June 1994

The Paul Tobias fight over Sympathy is October 1994

Erin's lawsuit with Axl is settled April 20th 1995

Stalker Karen MacNeil breaks into Axl's house April 27th 1995, is removed, returns April 30th

Shannon Hoon dies October 21st, 1995

Gilby sues Axl/GNR in early 1996

Steven sues GN'R for a second time in 1996

Axl's mother dies May 28th 1996, around this time wild fires nip at his home

Slash makes his departure official October 31st 1996

West Arkeen dies May 30th 1997

Duff leaves the band the first week of August 1997

As far as Moby is concerned, however, "the ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him." (1997)

“He seemed emotionally reserved and a little bit suspicious,” says the techno whiz Moby, who spent some time with Axl in California in 1997. “He seemed a little bit like a beaten dog.”

Great post. I forgot about some of that stuff.

It was all so close together.

And there was also that "White Trash Wins Lotto" satirical play/musical that was partly inspired by the Axl/GNR story, that started running around this time as well.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/aug/08/entertainment/ca-11079

[Brunzopolis]

Yeh, that book is complete crap. Mick Wall painted a very one side picture of Axl. There's almost nothing positive about Axl in that entire book. I know some of you would argue that Axl is a complete tool and that he is everything that Mick wall says, that's fair enough, but from reading Duffs book, and listening to the Craig Duswalt interviews etc. he comes across a whole lot more compassionate and loyal than Mick Wall would have you believe.

I agree. I am not a fan of Mick Wall at all. I mean, the title of the book is "William Axl Rose," he couldn't even get the guy's name right? That's never, ever been Axl's name. Mick Wall had an axe to grind, and he did. And there seems to be a British-American cultural divide there as well. I remember there's one stupid story about how Mick asked Axl's brother for an egg cup and Stuart had no idea what he was talking about, and Mick took that as a sign of low breeding...um, maybe it's more that people in America don't routinely use friggin' egg cups?!

Yeah, that egg story bugged me too. He paints Stuart as being borderline retarted.

With the exception of those couple of years in the late 80's, and maybe an interview or two with Izzy, years later, he hasn't had any access to the band, or Axl. The book is based almost entirely on source info that is accessible to all of us: articles, interviews, etc. Which is fine. You work with what you got. But you shouldn't then take this info, which is very incomplete and open to interpretation, and give your interpretation of it, without making it crystal clear that it is just that: your interpretation. He does this constantly.

And quotations! He fucked up (or purposefully changed) a lot of them. You're reading along and you're like "Oh yeah, I remember that. But hmmm, that doesn't sound quite right. I thought that line was a bit different." And sure enough, you look it up and the quote is wrong. That's the whole fucking point of a quote! To relay exactly what someone else said! Jesus.

An example of this that stands out for me (probably because it came near the end) is his butchering of what Billy Joe Armstrong said during his R n' R Hall of Fame speech. He completely misquoted him - basically changed the entire meaning.

It's also, absolutely full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and missing punctuation. It's almost like he took the final draft that he originally sent off to the publisher, which hadn't been proofread, tacked on his new intro and final chapter, and put it up for sale without bothering to look it over. Like seriously, you can get away with this kind of stuff and still be a semi-famous writer?! Good news for anyone wanting to pursue a writing career, I guess. The bar is low.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Brunzopolis

[DR DOOM]

Mick Wall's books are always full of glaring mistakes and he loves to vilify people, in his Sabbath book he can't mention Tony Iommi without putting "mountains of coke" or cocaine references in there and he comes across as very petty.

Anyways, I'm always a bit surprised that West Arkeen isn't mentioned more on forums.