Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Dan H. said: Yeah, I've been wondering since the end of season 6 how they can possibly have the time to fit in a lot of crucial pieces of information effectively in the final seasons in order to hit the right notes. It appears that they aren't gonna be able to do that, and instead are opting for a bizarre combination of fast forwarding certain plots and events, while also leaving in long stretches of expositional dialogue to keep the casual fans from being too confused. Unfortunately for fans like me and you, it just feels like a terrible waste of time, and leads to gaping logical gaps like the ones you laid out. Season 6 seemed like it was the start of a new stride for D&D and it moved fairly effeciently to my surprise, especially after season 5. But these 3 new episodes are barely moving the pieces towards the inevitable big showdowns. We have so much that needs to be wrapped up, with only what, 11 episodes? At this point it seems impossible to pull off without choking. The show has almost totally lost the critical sprawling "chess board" feeling that drew me in. Its just a bunch of plotting and obvious dialogue that really doesn't excite me. It doesn't feel as high stakes, or with such severe consequences as the books and the best moments from the show have felt. I think a big part of that is that we lost a lot of excellent characters and actors, and are left with some of the weakest ones, like Emilie Clark's Dany and Kit Harrington's Jon. We still are getting great material from Sandor, Thoros, Davos, Littlefinger, and occasionally Tyrion, but tbh the Starks and half of Dany's crew fucking suck. Arya is okay, but all of her charm was leeched out for me by the tragically poor writing choices made during her Faceless man subplot. Jesus Christ that was sad to watch, almost worse than Dorne. The coming Stark reunion is just fan service. Though GRRM hinted there was going to be something bittersweet and I think that was the Stark reunion. Sad Rickon was dead, but he was nothing more than a penis and a pair of balls. So there's the Stark bloodline. Gone. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks Kit and Emilia are horrible actors. Edited July 31, 2017 by Georgy Zhukov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Also, where the fuck are all the Dothraki? Khal Drogo had 40,000 so there has to be more than that under Dany. Dragonstone is small. Not a lot of grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlsFavoriteRose Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 28 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said: They can't because they are beyond the scale of the books. Fatboy won't finish the next book. They are probably in what would be book 7 and he only gave them 3 bits of information. Shireen dies, Hodor dies and who sits on the Iron Throne. That's it. ah ok. that sucks! get to writing George R.R.Martin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just now, AxlsFavoriteRose said: ah ok. that sucks! get to writing George R.R.Martin! He's too busy writing spin-offs. He lives about 6 hours from here so I can probably drive over and steal his manuscript. I bet it is just 3,000 pages of nonsense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlsFavoriteRose Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said: He's too busy writing spin-offs. He lives about 6 hours from here so I can probably drive over and steal his manuscript. I bet it is just 3,000 pages of nonsense. LOL go for it then let us all know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 The books aren't well written either, they are mostly trash for the most part. Loaded with sex (for example, Dany was only 14 in the first book and she was raped), violence and food porn. But they provided a decent plot for the showrunners to follow, once they ran out, like not even halfway to season 5, the show suffered for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We'll disagree on the not well written part. I think the first 3 books are great, especially the 3rd. The 4th/5th obviously should have been one, but oh well... Fyi the age thing isn't the worse thing in the world, according to George there was originally a 5 year gap after the 3rd book. So the characters would have been older originally. He wrote a 4th book or alot of it, then decided it wasn't the direction he wanted to go in then scrapped most of it. However I think the Sansa or Arya chapter preview chapters from The Winds of Winter was originally wrote when a 5th year gap was intended. That means they are possibly from as far back as the early 2000's maybe even 2001 (just add in further Chinese Democracy parallels). The difference being of course he wrote two books in between. A Dance With Dragons actually included the battles of ice and siege of Meereen, but cut kept over for Winds instead because the publisher said you couldn't have a book much over 1000's pages, due to the bindings or what not. He also cut an Aeron chapter to keep for Winds that I mentioned in the book thread. It features Euron and appeared just before last season. Although Euron is a different character in the books, there's a big hint about where the story is going; *BOOK SPOILERS* Spoiler Euron has a suit of Black Valyrian Armour, similar to what Jon dreams about wearing during his dream where he's Azor Ahai. I'd bet the show includes that next season. The real mystery to me though, is how the show influenced George's writing. All the released/preview material was all written years before the show. Don't know what George has actually wrote since 2011 of the actual book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I hope the show doesn't influence him at all. What information they used with Shireen, was wasted on shock value. Pure garbage. Don't hold your breath, pretty much everything is being made up at this point. Spoiler no fancy armor, no fancy horn. Bran was a fucking creep btw. "I watched you get raped. You were pretty. Jamie and Cersei do it all the time, so it is okay for me to watch, right?" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Georgy Zhukov said: Bran was a fucking creep btw. "I watched you get raped. You were pretty. Jamie and Cersei do it all the time, so it is okay for me to watch, right?" I don't if this is true or not, but there might be something just as creepy. *MAJOR SPOILER FOR SEASON FINALE* Don't click then complain. Spoiler Apparently one of the last scenes or last scene of the season is a montage of Jon and Danny fucking interspersed with clips of Bran/Sam finding out that Danny is fucking her nephew and rightful heir the Iron Throne Aegon Targaryen. -edit- fyi HBO was supposedly hacked. There's a small chance we might see a leaked episode. Don't count on it. Edited July 31, 2017 by AtariLegend HBO Comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I hope they leak the whole damn thing so we can get this over with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dan H. said: I hope they leak the whole damn thing so we can get this over with. We'll have to wait until next year. The spoilers this year have been on the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Reading through nonsense on 4chan, but I seen very, very rare good point made by one of the trolls there. They think Spoiler Danny in the books is going to get killed, because she's a foreign invader burning everyone. In the show D/D will change it so that she dies saving the world instead, because she's a feminist icon. Now I personally actually think that would make sense, considering what the show runners have turned Cerseri (who's essentially a scheming Disney villain that isn't too bright) into this smart strong character. Does it really make any narrative sense for a character who's detached from 3/4 of the story to sweep into a foreign land at the end and save the day? Even if Danny she isn't a principle villain (which we can safely rule out in the show). One last thing I think was being set up in ADWD that's never going to happen in the show; Spoiler (Tyrion's totally going to betray Danny or change his mind after meeting her, as per Quaithe's warning). Edited July 31, 2017 by AtariLegend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Cersei is pretty good at being Queen. All she had to do is kill some priests and exploit the weakness of her enemies while impressing the Iron Bank of Braavos and she is golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: Reading through nonsense on 4chan, but I seen very, very rare good point made by one of the trolls there. They think Hide contents Danny in the books is going to get killed, because she's a foreign invader burning everyone. In the show D/D will change it so that she dies saving the world instead, because she's a feminist icon. Now I personally actually think that would make sense, considering what the show runners have turned Cerseri (who's essentially a scheming Disney villain that isn't too bright) into this smart strong character. Does it really make any narrative sense for a character who's detached from 3/4 of the story to sweep into a foreign land at the end and save the day? Even if Danny she isn't a principle villain (which we can safely rule out in the show). One last thing I think was being set up in ADWD that's never going to happen in the show; Hide contents (Tyrion's totally going to betray Danny or change his mind after meeting her, as per Quaithe's warning). I find both of those theories to be highly unlikely. Its too late in the game to justify those kinds of twists with characters who are already well on their way to an arc. The Dany thing is plausable for one last epic gotcha moment, but I think its honestly less likely than her becoming a villain. They've set the table now and they need to play out what we already have, not add nonsense twists. Edited July 31, 2017 by Dan H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I've been enjoying the series so far. Davos is becoming one of my favourite characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dan H. said: I find both of those theories to be highly unlike. Its too late in the game to justify those kinds of twists with characters who are already well on their way to an arc. The Dany thing is plausable for one last epic gotcha moment, but I think its honestly less likely than her becoming a villain. They've set the table now and they need to play out what we already have, not add nonsense twists. Both were related to the books and neither do I think or happening on the show either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just now, AtariLegend said: Both were related to the books and neither do I think or happening on the show either. Hard to tell where the books may go. Literally anything could happen over hundreds of pages. I think anything is possible on that front. But again, presuming we'll ever get a GRRM penned end to the books is a bet I wouldn't dare take. We may get Winds of Winter at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I still think Dany will be the villain by next season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan H. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said: I still think Dany will be the villain by next season. I think that would be absurd at this point, but you may still be right. The media would hate it though, and this show isn't exactly edgy. If I were writing this show, I don't see how making Dany an exact clone of her father says anything about the story. Edited July 31, 2017 by Dan H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 It was sort of set up that way in the book. She is probably the most whitewashed character on the show, next to Tyrion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 39 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said: I still think Dany will be the villain by next season. Makes sense as far book narrative goes, but I don't think they're going to do this. 6 episodes eliminates too many twists. They're literally going to have to resolve the conflict with The Others within a few episodes, so that they have time for the season finale. It'll be jam packed, but beyond rushed even if the final episode is 2 hours long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: Makes sense as far book narrative goes, but I don't think they're going to do this. 6 episodes eliminates too many twists. They're literally going to have to resolve the conflict with The Others within a few episodes, so that they have time for the season finale. It'll be jam packed, but beyond rushed even if the final episode is 2 hours long. They can have more than one villain. It isn't that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) If that leak from last year is legit (and looks like it is) there will be enough time to resolve everything in 6-8 hours in the last season Edited August 1, 2017 by Nicklord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 30 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said: They can have more than one villain. It isn't that hard. Funny you say that. They introduced Ramsay later in the show than in the books near Joffery's ending and the same with Euron/Ramsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) On 31-7-2017 at 4:44 AM, Deb Rose said: I just got fed up with Danaerys. Maybe she should add some more titles to her name. All my suggestions would be synonyms for vagina. She seemed to soften up towards the end though. Lady Olena is awesome. Expected more wit from Tyrion, but I loved his talks with Jon. Also, how can Euron's fleet attack Yara and Ellaria, bring them to Kings Langing, gloat AND make it back in time to Casterly Rock to catch up with the unsullied fleet who were already heading that way while he was still busy capturing Ellaria and Yara? Edited August 1, 2017 by username Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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