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"By the time we got to the chorus, Izzy was just flying out of the sofa like a Nasa rocket pumping his fist in the air" = NEW ALAN NIVEN AUG/SEP 2017 INTERVIEW On the 30 years of Appetite

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14 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Sounds about right - the Malcolm Young and Keith Richards of the band. . 

One thing that makes me wonder is how the opinions of some nuGN'R fans has changed about Izzy over the years. Probably to protect Richards role in the band since the reunion of Axl, Slash and Duff. 

 

18 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Not sure what is real truth and what is embellished by Axl when it comes to Paul Tobias - but yeah, it does sound like Paul had a similar role in GnR. Izzy was also very important to the guitar dynamics of the band which Paul wasn't - important distinction to make here. 

He was brought in mainly as a songwriter. He couldn't work with Slash but he wrote / co-wrote some really good tunes for the new period (Oh My God, There Was A Time and Prostitute for example). 

 

21 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I think Buckethead could have served a similar role as Izzy if Axl had let that guy contribute in a meaningful way. I don't think he used Buckethead properly - I feel like 90% of his talents were wasted with GnR which is a real shame. 

Yeah, that was one of the reasons why he left the band. I wonder how much of his material is still in Axl's archive.

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27 minutes ago, Sosso said:

One thing that makes me wonder is how the opinions of some nuGN'R fans has changed about Izzy over the years. Probably to protect Richards role in the band since the reunion of Axl, Slash and Duff. 

 

If you were on this forum back during 2003-2015 - Izzy was mostly loved by nu-guns fans. Whether that was because they actually liked Izzy or because he was on good terms with Axl is anyone's guess.

 

Quote

He was brought in mainly as a songwriter. He couldn't work with Slash but he wrote / co-wrote some really good tunes for the new period (Oh My God, There Was A Time and Prostitute for example). 

And see - I don't know if I believe that Paul actually wrote that stuff. He has literally done nothing outside of GnR but if we believe Axl, Tobias is some kind of world class songwriter given that he wrote the best songs on CD. It's strange that such an immense talent never did anything ever again nor has he collaborated with any others in the music business. Many notable artists tried to hire Izzy as a songwriter/guitarist after he left Guns. Why not Paul? He literally disappeared into the wind. 

Here's my take on this: I suspect, Tobias did a lot of grunt work for Axl. He was the guy who was regularly in the studio with Dizzy - facilitating the sessions, organizing and cataloging the stacks and stacks of tapes. He was like the project manager of GnR. And as a reward for that and whatever minor "songwriting" he did (potentially as minimal as adding a word to the lyrics), Axl gave him a ton of credit for songwriting. You have to understand that Axl desperately wanted to add legitimacy to Nu Guns with the depletion of original members from the band. He knew fans, the band members, and the press blamed Tobias for the break up - the only way to justify Tobias' inclusion in the band was to make it seem like he was the architect of Chinese Democracy along with Axl. Giving him a vital role in the formation of that project would add legitimacy to his inclusion and justify the original band breaking up. 

As a rational, logical person - it is very hard to believe that Paul Tobias contributed in such a meaningful way to literally the best songs of Nu Guns. The implication here, if we believe Axl's credits, is that Tobias was a more important and talented songwriter than either Finck or Buckethead. That's just insane and completely unbelievable imho. Like I said, I think Paul was more of a project manager that tried to organize the chaos of the Chinese Democracy sessions and Axl pretty much confirms this in his 1999 interviews and in RIO. Basically, at the end of the day - I think he was Axl's yes-man as Duff once put it. His personal assistant that was there to observe, organize and report back to Axl what was going on in the studio (since Axl never showed up). This would also explain why nobody from Nu Guns ever talks about him or mentions that they liked him aside from Dizzy.

Quote

 

Yeah, that was one of the reasons why he left the band. I wonder how much of his material is still in Axl's archive.

 

An alleged Buckethead insider here once claimed that the main reason Buckethead is pissed at Axl (aside from being thrown under the bus in the press releases) was because he refused to release Buckethead's unused riffs - there's potentially a bunch of unused Bucket stuff in the vault. Given what a prolific guy Buckethead is - that's really not hard to believe. I bet there's a ton of Finck stuff languishing in the vault as well right next to all the unused Slash and Izzy songs. With the reunion, we'll probably never hear that Buckethead stuff. The irony here is, if rumors are to be believed, Axl loves Buckethead's contributions.

 

Edited by RONIN
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2 hours ago, Sosso said:

One thing that makes me wonder is how the opinions of some nuGN'R fans has changed about Izzy over the years. Probably to protect Richards role in the band since the reunion of Axl, Slash and Duff.

No “nugnr” fans hate or dislike Izzy, they react the way they do to Izzy because some of the fans around here make things up and get under everyones skin with their BS. They go on about his integrity while attacking current band members, they credit his co-writes only to him and inflate his importance to ridiculous levels. They basically piss people off so much that they have no option but to take a contradictory position to them for fear of being lumped in with such idiots, whether they like that position or not.

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2 hours ago, RONIN said:

If you were on this forum back during 2003-2015 - Izzy was mostly loved by nu-guns fans. Whether that was because they actually liked Izzy or because he was on good terms with Axl is anyone's guess.

 

And see - I don't know if I believe that Paul actually wrote that stuff. He has literally done nothing outside of GnR but if we believe Axl, Tobias is some kind of world class songwriter given that he wrote the best songs on CD. It's strange that such an immense talent never did anything ever again nor has he collaborated with any others in the music business. Many notable artists tried to hire Izzy as a songwriter/guitarist after he left Guns. Why not Paul? He literally disappeared into the wind. 

Here's my take on this: I suspect, Tobias did a lot of grunt work for Axl. He was the guy who was regularly in the studio with Dizzy - facilitating the sessions, organizing and cataloging the stacks and stacks of tapes. He was like the project manager of GnR. And as a reward for that and whatever minor "songwriting" he did (potentially as minimal as adding a word to the lyrics), Axl gave him a ton of credit for songwriting. You have to understand that Axl desperately wanted to add legitimacy to Nu Guns with the depletion of original members from the band. He knew fans, the band members, and the press blamed Tobias for the break up - the only way to justify Tobias' inclusion in the band was to make it seem like he was the architect of Chinese Democracy along with Axl. Giving him a vital role in the formation of that project would add legitimacy to his inclusion and justify the original band breaking up. 

As a rational, logical person - it is very hard to believe that Paul Tobias contributed in such a meaningful way to literally the best songs of Nu Guns. The implication here, if we believe Axl's credits, is that Tobias was a more important and talented songwriter than either Finck or Buckethead. That's just insane and completely unbelievable imho. Like I said, I think Paul was more of a project manager that tried to organize the chaos of the Chinese Democracy sessions and Axl pretty much confirms this in his 1999 interviews and in RIO. Basically, at the end of the day - I think he was Axl's yes-man as Duff once put it. His personal assistant that was there to observe, organize and report back to Axl what was going on in the studio (since Axl never showed up). This would also explain why nobody from Nu Guns ever talks about him or mentions that they liked him aside from Dizzy.

An alleged Buckethead insider here once claimed that the main reason Buckethead is pissed at Axl (aside from being thrown under the bus in the press releases) was because he refused to release Buckethead's unused riffs - there's potentially a bunch of unused Bucket stuff in the vault. Given what a prolific guy Buckethead is - that's really not hard to believe. I bet there's a ton of Finck stuff languishing in the vault as well right next to all the unused Slash and Izzy songs. With the reunion, we'll probably never hear that Buckethead stuff. The irony here is, if rumors are to be believed, Axl loves Buckethead's contributions.

 

Very silly post. You write as if it’s a matter of fact that the songs Tobias co-wrote are the best songs of the CD era. Your case is built on that premise and from there you go mental. The credits are fake? Really? A conspiracy now must exist because you don’t like Paul Tobias but rate the songs he co-wrote? Give me a break, your bias is so transparent, what a lousy thing to write based on ZERO EVIDENCE. 

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4 minutes ago, Tonto said:

No “nugnr” fans hate or dislike Izzy, they react the way they do to Izzy because some of the fans around here make things up and get under everyones skin with their BS. They go on about his integrity while attacking current band members, they credit his co-writes only to him and inflate his importance to ridiculous levels. They basically piss people off so much that they have no option but to take a contradictory position to them for fear of being lumped in with such idiots, whether they like that position or not.

I salute you sir for being so fearless in playing devil's advocate with the idiots that mention Izzy's importance to the band. One aspires to be as astute as you when it comes to GnR.

6 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Very silly post. You write as if it’s a matter of fact that the songs Tobias co-wrote are the best songs of the CD era. Your case is built on that premise and from there you go mental. The credits are fake? Really? A conspiracy now must exist because you don’t like Paul Tobias but rate the songs he co-wrote? Give me a break, your bias is so transparent, what a lousy thing to write based on ZERO EVIDENCE. 

You are so right - how could I have been so wrong. I see it all so clearly now. Thank you for correcting my silly post with the truth. The evidence you have brought forth to support your point of view is truly compelling.  

 

 

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Just now, RONIN said:

I salute you sir for being so fearless in playing devil's advocate with the idiots that mention Izzy's importance to the band. One aspires to be as astute as you when it comes to GnR.

You are so right - how could I have been so wrong. I see it all so clearly now. Thank you for correcting my silly post with the truth. The evidence you have brought forth to support your point of view is truly compelling.  

 

 

You are very welcome, I'm glad I was able to show you the light. Take a bath, light some candles and relax. You deserve it.

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@RONIN I don't think that Paul's songwriting credits on Oh My God and CD were fake. But one thing is clear: Robin, Buckethead and Pitman had much more influence on the writing of those songs. 

To keep it on topic: I'm a fan from both Izzy and Richard ever since 2006 (the year I became a fan). This attitude has never changed. Izzy is an amazing songwriter and Richard is an amazing guitar player. They could be so strong together.

Edited by Sosso

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14 minutes ago, Sosso said:

@RONIN I don't think that Paul's songwriting credits on Oh My God and CD were fake. But one thing is clear: Robin, Buckethead and Pitman had much more influence on the writing of those songs. 

To keep it on topic: I'm a fan from both Izzy and Richard ever since 2006 (the year I became a fan). This attitude has never changed. Izzy is an amazing songwriter and Richard is an amazing guitar player. They could be so strong together.

Yeah - I'm not totally discounting Tobias. I'm just saying the chances of him being a more important songwriting force in Nu Guns compared to Finck and Bucket seem far fetched - given what we know about Tobias from anyone who isn't Axl and Dizzy. Neither Tommy, nor Duff and Slash held him in high regard as a musician. All we can do is take Axl's word for it that this random guy from Indiana who isn't a professional musician was integral to the songwriting for Chinese Democracy.

There's also no concrete evidence from anyone outside of Axl about what specifically Tobias did musically. We don't know anything about his songwriting process or even what he brought to the jam sessions with Finck and Tommy - what specifically did he add to the songs he's credited with? None of those guys talk about their work with him. The only thing we do know is that he was really important in overseeing the studio sessions with the shadow band and cataloging the multitudes of tapes that were being assembled during the making of Chi Dem. There's really nothing else to say aside from a small reference to a specific melody/riff he brought to Oh My God from Axl. I'd love to be proven wrong here but for a guy that supposedly wrote so much of Chi Dem, there's very little talk about what he actually did. There's plenty of details on what was contributed by every other member in the lineup including Freese and Pitman. Almost nothing on Tobias. Makes you wonder why. 

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6 hours ago, Sosso said:

Good point. That means that Izzy was the Malcolm Young of Guns N' Roses. Bon Scott described Mal as the brain of the band. Paul Tobias was similar to Izzy because he was in the background most of the time. The different lead guitarists (Tracii, Slash, Robin, Bucket, etc.) had roles similar to Angus - the showmasters of the band. 

what? paul tobias? wtf? are you talking about that time in rio 2001 or something when axl said that "there wouldnt be GNR without paul" or something?

i am pretty sure axl was talking about the 2001 band, which axl described as GNR, and that axl statement had NOTHING to do with GNR 1985-1991

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3 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

what? paul tobias? wtf? are you talking about that time in rio 2001 or something when axl said that "there wouldnt be GNR without paul" or something?

i am pretty sure axl was talking about the 2001 band, which axl described as GNR, and that axl statement had NOTHING to do with GNR 1985-1991

He's saying that Izzy's role was as the mastermind behind GnR and that similarly, Tobias was rumored to be the mastermind behind Chinese Democracy's songwriting. If Axl is to be believed anyway. 

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2 hours ago, Tonto said:

No “nugnr” fans hate or dislike Izzy, they react the way they do to Izzy because some of the fans around here make things up and get under everyones skin with their BS. They go on about his integrity while attacking current band members, they credit his co-writes only to him and inflate his importance to ridiculous levels. They basically piss people off so much that they have no option but to take a contradictory position to them for fear of being lumped in with such idiots, whether they like that position or not.

most axl solo-era fans are people who werent around when GNR existed

so they basically have zero idea about how izzy was important to GNR

1 hour ago, Sosso said:

@RONIN I don't think that Paul's songwriting credits on Oh My God and CD were fake. But one thing is clear: Robin, Buckethead and Pitman had much more influence on the writing of those songs. 

To keep it on topic: I'm a fan from both Izzy and Richard ever since 2006 (the year I became a fan). This attitude has never changed. Izzy is an amazing songwriter and Richard is an amazing guitar player. They could be so strong together.

i wouldnt say so

richard the guitar player has shown time and again that he is a talentless guitar player

can he play fast? yes

can he play GNR note for note? yes, even though most of the time he painfully chooses not to

does he have technical ability/proficiency? yes

can he write good music? no that i know of, all things i have listened from him is generic uninspiring music

can he play in a dynamic, groovy, rocking way? no, all things I have listened from him sounds like a boring professionally trained session musician

4 minutes ago, RONIN said:

He's saying that Izzy's role was as the mastermind behind GnR and that similarly, Tobias was rumored to be the mastermind behind Chinese Democracy's songwriting. If Axl is to be believed anyway. 

oh thanks for the clarification hahahaha, so paul whatever is the mastermind of axl solo career, well, that might explain why it sucks

maybe axl should be the mastermind of his solo career since he can actually write good songs, i.e. november rain and estranged

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I think the issue I have with Fortus is that he sounds a bit generic and he overplays a lot of the material. He's more suited to be a lead guitarist than a rhythm player building textures under Slash's lead guitar. He's trying to stand out with giants like Slash on stage with his aggressive style but it's too much - I think he would come off better if he was more understated like Izzy. Sometimes less is more. Izzy understood that. 

As for his songwriting, yeah - nothing really makes an impression. Until we hear his contributions on Chinese Democracy 2 - nobody can really say for sure what he brings to the band creatively. Fortus definitely can play but GnR was never about being the most technically proficient player. I would listen to Steven Adler any day over Matt Sorum's boring precision drumming. 

As for Tobias - I strongly suspect he had very little to do with the songwriting. I think Axl wanted to cut him into royalties out of loyalty. Tobias took over Izzy's role as Axl's most trusted friend in the band. 

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36 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

most axl solo-era fans are people who werent around when GNR existed

so they basically have zero idea about how izzy was important to GNR

i wouldnt say so

richard the guitar player has shown time and again that he is a talentless guitar player

can he play fast? yes

can he play GNR note for note? yes, even though most of the time he painfully chooses not to

does he have technical ability/proficiency? yes

can he write good music? no that i know of, all things i have listened from him is generic uninspiring music

can he play in a dynamic, groovy, rocking way? no, all things I have listened from him sounds like a boring professionally trained session musician

oh thanks for the clarification hahahaha, so paul whatever is the mastermind of axl solo career, well, that might explain why it sucks

maybe axl should be the mastermind of his solo career since he can actually write good songs, i.e. november rain and estranged

Please show me something from Axls non-existing solo career. Did he had projects other than GN'R in the new millennium?

Edited by Sosso

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35 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I think the issue I have with Fortus is that he sounds a bit generic and he overplays a lot of the material. He's more suited to be a lead guitarist than a rhythm player building textures under Slash's lead guitar. He's trying to stand out with giants like Slash on stage with his aggressive style but it's too much - I think he would come off better if he was more understated like Izzy. Sometimes less is more. Izzy understood that. 

He has songwriting credits on these albums:

with The Eyes/ Pale Divine:

Freedom in a Cage (1990)

Straight to Goodbye (1991)

With Love Spit Love:

Love Spit Love (1994)

Trysome Eatone (1997)

With The Dead Daisies:

The Dead Daisies (2013)

Revolución (2015)  

Some of these albums gained mostly positive reviews. 

Edited by Sosso
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19 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Please show me something from Axls non-existing solo career. Did he had projects other than GN'R in the new millennium?

i am afraid its not available on regular internet, but there is extensive documentation of axl solo career on the deep web

its kinda dangerous to go in there, but if you wanna risk, i suppose its worth, axl wrote a song name "prostitute" with paul tobias!!!!!!!!!

here is how to reach the deep web:

install a stealth/forbiden browser on your PC -- the most used are "firefox" and "chrome"

access this site named "google"

there you can search for "axl solo career"

or you can search for "guns n' roses" -izzy -slash -duff -steven

i searched and found this

2002-axl-rose-2236126.jpg.808df27cfd7477

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The problem of GN'R since the early 90's is that no songwriter could use his full potential. Some of them were downgraded to co-songwriters, despite to the fact that they could've written songs by themself. 

 

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1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

most axl solo-era fans are people who werent around when GNR existed

so they basically have zero idea about how izzy was important to GNR

You pulled that out of your ass. You have no idea how many fans of the "solo-era" were or weren't around when the classic line up's were playing. Regardless, it makes no difference whatsoever if they were around or not around, it's not like the history of the band wasn't documented. You sound like a snob.

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18 minutes ago, Tonto said:

You pulled that out of your ass. You have no idea how many fans of the "solo-era" were or weren't around when the classic line up's were playing. Regardless, it makes no difference whatsoever if they were around or not around, it's not like the history of the band wasn't documented. You sound like a snob.

 

oh yeah, you are correct, thats exactly where i pulled that from

let me pull some more stuff for ya

most of the people who were around when GNR existed are in their 40s now. very few are still on GNR forums. they have lives, jobs, wives and kids. no time for this

the die-hards from the GNR-era are long gone. John M stopped updating his site a decade ago. All the old websites are gone. Very few people left from that era.

the people who are in forums like this forum are mostly younger.

ask the mods, they will tell you that

probably the majority is 15-35 years old, and probably most are 20-30 years olds.

people under 26 werent even ALIVE when GNR broke up

people who now are 34 were EIGHT years old when GNR broke up

most of the people who fell in love with GNR 1992-2000 (before the 2001 axl solo comeback) did so via nonsense post-GNR shows like Japan 1992 and Paris 1992, via nonsense crap november rain video etc etc etc

then a lot of people found GNR through axl solo career

hey nothing wrong with that

except that all of that (1992, axl solo career etc) has very little to do with GNR

 

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7 hours ago, ludurigan said:

 

people under 26 werent even ALIVE when GNR broke up

people who now are 34 were EIGHT years old when GNR broke up

most of the people who fell in love with GNR 1992-2000 (before the 2001 axl solo comeback) did so via nonsense post-GNR shows like Japan 1992 and Paris 1992, via nonsense crap november rain video etc etc etc

except that all of that (1992, axl solo career etc) has very little to do with GNR

 

 

I find it odd that you state the breakup of the band in 1991. Why not 1990 when Steven was fired? Or better yet, why not in 1985 when Tracii Guns, Rob Gardner and Ole Beich left?? You seem to be on your own timeline with this.

1992 may be nonsense to you, but not to everyone. I've been a fan since before most current fans even heard of them. I knew about them during their club days. And I don't think 1992 (or later) was nonsense.

Perhaps not so oddly, they were more popular in 1992 than when those other guys were still in the band. The majority of interest didn't wane until Axl, Slash and Duff all parted ways. Those 3 get back together and suddenly they're arguably the hottest tour of the past 18 months. Go figure.

Edited by thunderram

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16 hours ago, RONIN said:

I think he was Axl's yes-man as Duff once put it. His personal assistant that was there to observe, organize and report back to Axl what was going on in the studio (since Axl never showed up). This would also explain why nobody from Nu Guns ever talks about him or mentions that they liked him aside from Dizzy.

On that note, I've never been able to work out why it was that Axl would never show up, given that he was/is a Class A Control Freak? He seems to be a contradictory person which makes second guessing him (or armchair psychoanalysing him) a difficult task, no matter how plausible some theories are.

 

1 hour ago, thunderram said:

 

I find it odd that you state the breakup of the band in 1991. Why not 1990 when Steven was fired? Or better yet, why not in 1985 when Tracii Guns, Rob Gardner and Ole Beich left?? You seem to be on your own timeline with this.

1992 may be nonsense to you, but not to everyone. I've been a fan since before most current fans even heard of them. I knew about them during their club days. And I don't think 1992 (or later) was nonsense.

Perhaps not so oddly, they were more popular in 1992 than when those other guys were still in the band. The majority of interest didn't wane until Axl, Slash and Duff all parted ways. Those 3 get back together and suddenly they're arguably the hottest tour of the past 18 months. Go figure.

You sure about that?  I'm one of the old fogies and I don't remember them being more popular 92. In fact, I remember that's when Guns started falling off mainstream's radar.  I remember the Settle sound started gearing up before then, (I bought Pearl Jam's Even Flow on cassingle in 92 I think) and by 93 was in full swing. By mid 92 Guns was not the 'cool' band anymore.  Obviously, I've got my own personal point of reference for this (I;m thinking of student parties I went to during those years and what was playing at the time) so maybe it was different in other countries where Guns' popularity lasted a bit longer.

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Let's all have another Ole Bleich and the original band discussion again! :headbang:

:facepalm:

Noooooo - please let's not!! Don't even mention the name!!:lol:

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10 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 

You sure about that?  I'm one of the old fogies and I don't remember them being more popular 92. In fact, I remember that's when Guns started falling off mainstream's radar.  I remember the Settle sound started gearing up before then, (I bought Pearl Jam's Even Flow on cassingle in 92 I think) and by 93 was in full swing. By mid 92 Guns was not the 'cool' band anymore.  Obviously, I've got my own personal point of reference for this (I;m thinking of student parties I went to during those years and what was playing at the time) so maybe it was different in other countries where Guns' popularity lasted a bit longer.

Noooooo - please let's not!! Don't even mention the name!!:lol:

Both. So much! :lol:

As for the decline of popularity after 91-92. Oh yeah, same goes for my country as well. My reference also being parties and clubbing nights. GnR became uncool, Grunge was the thing all of a sudden and GnR was too much arena rock and grand full-of-themselves rockstar attitude. That is not directly related to Izzy's (and Steven's) leaving the band but Izzy's leaving the band is related to it. As he left the band because of the blown-up-ness of it all (among other things like his sobriety and not having a say anymore in band decisions etc.). Just wasn't his kind of cool or rock n' roll anymore. 

Edited by Tori72

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5 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

I find it odd that you state the breakup of the band in 1991. Why not 1990 when Steven was fired? Or better yet, why not in 1985 when Tracii Guns, Rob Gardner and Ole Beich left?? You seem to be on your own timeline with this.

1992 may be nonsense to you, but not to everyone. I've been a fan since before most current fans even heard of them. I knew about them during their club days. And I don't think 1992 (or later) was nonsense.

Perhaps not so oddly, they were more popular in 1992 than when those other guys were still in the band. The majority of interest didn't wane until Axl, Slash and Duff all parted ways. Those 3 get back together and suddenly they're arguably the hottest tour of the past 18 months. Go figure.

well we both know rob gardner and ole beich didnt do nothing for GNR -- they are just a curious footnote

GNR was truly hurt when steven left. thankfully, axl, izzy, slash and duff were able to keep GNR being GNR with matt and dizzy during most of 1991

you watch rio shows, indiana, st louis, stockholmm and what do you see? its guns n roses up there!, with another drummer and a keyboard player

when izzy leftt, it was something else. the band became something else. they became a sad parody of GNR. it was irrecognizable.

specially axl. duff and slash were only functioning zombies at the time.

the rest of the "additional players" were absolutely awful, including gilby. gilby, such a nice guy, such a good guitar player, but he cant lick izzys boots live onstage musically. the rest of the circus only added insult to the injury. so, yeah, i cant see and i cant HEAR gnr in there anymore, that is why i consider GNR stop existing once izzy left

ask yourself, would it be GNR if, in 1991, it was Axl who had left instead of izzy?

 

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15 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

ask yourself, would it be GNR if, in 1991, it was Axl who had left instead of izzy?

If Axl left GN'R in 1991, the band would have probably fallen apart. I, personally think Axl is the heart of this band and if he left, the band would be basically over.

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