Nick85

IMHO it was not about Axl making as much money as possible as he certainly is not milking the sacred cow anywhere near its potential but the Guns N Roses is a very valuable brand name and Axl realized that...It offered him financial security allowing him to do whatever he wants with a guaranteed revenue stream to finance his lifestyle and any music he choses to release...

It also gave his nuband and numusic instant credibility and helps him sell tickets...Anyone who thinks Axl sells as many albums and concert tickets without using the GnR name is kidding themselves I think...........

I also have no doubt that he was under pressure form the label to release music under the GnR banner as they realize the value of the brand...Slash wanted to tour as just Snakepit to support the first album but the label insisted on adding his name to band name for fan recognition....Brand names help sell products...........

I don't blame Axl for fighting for the name as it was a smart business decision............

You're right about the label pressuring Axl to keep the GnR. But you see, if Axl were to release Chinese Democracy as a solo album, it would most probably have been released a lot earlier, gotten much better reviews, people wouldn't be as harsh as they were on CD for it being released in the GnR catalog. We'd probably have more music, Axl's general media image would be much, much better, he would be able to play the classic GnR catalog still without the name, and his current situation with former GnR member would be much, much healthier, making a reunion much more possible. Ultimately, it would've been the right choice for him, I think. However, I think the fact he kept the name was not due to money interest or anything like that. I think in his head, keeping the GnR name and possibly making the new GnR formation successful would be as if "he won", in his head Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy, and co would be pissed and regretful. He'd in some way prove "he didn't need them".

I don't think what he did was out of normality:

• KISS's only got Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons
  
• Iron Maiden technically only has two original members, which are Steve Harris and Dave Murray
  
• Motörhead only has Lemmy
  
• Wolfmother only has Andrew Stockdale
  
• Black Sabbath only has one stable member, which is Tommy Iommi
  
• Sepultura doesn't even have the Cavalera brothers anymore
  
• the Foo Fighters only kept stable original members Dave Grohl and Nate Mendel
  
• Lynyrd Skynyrd's only got original member Gary Rossington
  
• The Ramones only kept stable Joey and Johnny Ramone
  
• the Red Hot Chili Peppers only have original members Flea and Anthony Kleidis
  

and those are the ones I can think of right now... I don't think any fan base was half as harsh as the GnR fan base.

I agree with literally everything you've said here. Great post.

...Maybe next year during the CD2 tour?

Axl fought so hard for the band name for one reason. Money.

Nothing could give him more money than to let it go and reunite. If it was the money, he'd be touring with Slash, Duff & Co. Believe it.

Yeah, you're not wrong there.

Another thought: If Axl found a way to get the next album out before Christmas on the heals of a U.S. tour, and promoted both with a catchy single, a lot of what's gone down post-Chinese Democracy would be forgiven among the bulk of the remaining fanbase.

It seems like a no-brainer, especially when you consider the album is more or less finished. Even so, as fans it's frustrating to think that an ideal situation like that probably just isn't in the cards, based on issues that we know nothing about.

loser? how about YOU learn to speak coherently before going around labeling others!! what do you speak? it sounds like F'N MORON!!

you all can cover your eyes to the reality all you like! it WON'T change the fact that axl rose has wasted the past 15 F'N YEARS by being a jaded ass! ONE SHITTY ALBUM IN 15 YEARS!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!! please excuse me for not burying my head in the sand and pretending that ALL IS WELL!! more material that sounds like chinese democracy SHOULD be kept buried unless YOU truly desire to see the name SHIT ON even more!!

oh wow!!! another chinese democracy tour with a group of people who aren't slash, duff, and izzy!!! excuse me for not wacking off in excitement!!!

axl rose needs to read this truth since his HANGER-ONS don't have the balls to tell him!!

Are you literally screaming while you type? Because that's how I picture you.

I also see him screaming, but in a high womanlike falsetto. I hear it from my girlfriend all the time.

Yeah, I could never let myself get that upset over a band. I'm a GNR fan past and present and I think it's seriously odd when either side of the fence gets this whacky and worked up.

The whole point of this thread was that I just wish Axl would put out new music. I don't care whether Bucket, Robin, DJ, or Ron plays on the tracks, as longs as we get some cool music with Axl on vocals.

It's unreal how some people dote on the original lineup(s), but paint Axl as this antichrist who must be destroyed. I mean, aren't they fans of his even if he's not playing with Slash anymore and vice versa? Is that impossible for them to do? I just can't wrap my mind around it.

+1 here man, I rag on Slash once in awhile to piss off the SFB's but I really don't have anything but the Superbowl against him. I was never a V.R. fan, but that was because of Weiland. I would really like to get more music out of Axl though, and I don't care who's on the instruments when, or if, it gets here.

Exactly. We can get frustrated with Axl based on the lack of material and fan interaction, but at the end of the day we're still huge fans of his and would probably buy tickets and the next album at the drop of a dime. I certainly would. But resorting to insults, calling him washed up, fat, etc. because he won't reunite with the original lineup is borderline psychotic.

Yeah, the Superbowl was an ebarrassment as a GNR fan, totally agree and I cringed like everyone else. But I'm also talking the people constantly seize every opportunity to diss Slash like they have something to proove by degrading the man.

Neither Axl or Slash deserve that.

loser? how about YOU learn to speak coherently before going around labeling others!! what do you speak? it sounds like F'N MORON!!

you all can cover your eyes to the reality all you like! it WON'T change the fact that axl rose has wasted the past 15 F'N YEARS by being a jaded ass! ONE SHITTY ALBUM IN 15 YEARS!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!! please excuse me for not burying my head in the sand and pretending that ALL IS WELL!! more material that sounds like chinese democracy SHOULD be kept buried unless YOU truly desire to see the name SHIT ON even more!!

oh wow!!! another chinese democracy tour with a group of people who aren't slash, duff, and izzy!!! excuse me for not wacking off in excitement!!!

axl rose needs to read this truth since his HANGER-ONS don't have the balls to tell him!!

Are you literally screaming while you type? Because that's how I picture you.

I also see him screaming, but in a high womanlike falsetto. I hear it from my girlfriend all the time.

Yeah, I could never let myself get that upset over a band. I'm a GNR fan past and present and I think it's seriously odd when either side of the fence gets this whacky and worked up.

The whole point of this thread was that I just wish Axl would put out new music. I don't care whether Bucket, Robin, DJ, or Ron plays on the tracks, as longs as we get some cool music with Axl on vocals.

It's unreal how some people dote on the original lineup(s), but paint Axl as this antichrist who must be destroyed. I mean, aren't they fans of his even if he's not playing with Slash anymore and vice versa? Is that impossible for them to do? I just can't wrap my mind around it.

loser? how about YOU learn to speak coherently before going around labeling others!! what do you speak? it sounds like F'N MORON!!

you all can cover your eyes to the reality all you like! it WON'T change the fact that axl rose has wasted the past 15 F'N YEARS by being a jaded ass! ONE SHITTY ALBUM IN 15 YEARS!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!! please excuse me for not burying my head in the sand and pretending that ALL IS WELL!! more material that sounds like chinese democracy SHOULD be kept buried unless YOU truly desire to see the name SHIT ON even more!!

oh wow!!! another chinese democracy tour with a group of people who aren't slash, duff, and izzy!!! excuse me for not wacking off in excitement!!!

axl rose needs to read this truth since his HANGER-ONS don't have the balls to tell him!!

Are you literally screaming while you type? Because that's how I picture you.

It's funny, during the 8 years Axl was with the old lineup, when it was a democracy, Guns N' Roses put out 5 studio albums from 87-93. But in the 14 years (from '97 on) that Axl's been completely in charge of GNR, he's only been able to put out 1, with little to no signs of another on the horizon.

From that perspective, it really looks like the "last man standing" gig hasn't gone too well for him.

Much People Insane... OMG, 2011 Era....

Line Up Original, Line Up AFD, Line Up UYI, Line Up Skin Bones, Line Up Democrcray... ALL IS BULLSHIT MAN...

Is Simple, This Is ---> GUNS N' ROSES - 1985 To Present

You Don't Like ??

PRAY LOSER

Oh HBK, I never have any idea what you're saying, but I love you anyway.

Does anyone else here fight the urge to accuse someone of "trolling" for fear that using word cupcake will cause you to slip into total forum-nerdom?

Of course not. Obviously we should wear our nerd badges with pride when we argue the same Axl vs. Slash debate every day.

Yeah, I just looked at my total number of posts and it's clear I passed the point of no return somwhere around 2005.

Glue this to your chest. I'm wearing mine now.

Ha, well done. Between my GNR fandom & Superman comic collection, I'd say I've earned this...

I have a pretty big collection from the 80's and 90's myself. Maybe we should move from Axl vs. Slash to Superman vs. the Hulk.

You know what's funny, I'm quite sure there are some forums where those arguments take place, and just as passionately.

And the answer, of course, is Superman.

Does anyone else here fight the urge to accuse someone of "trolling" for fear that using word cupcake will cause you to slip into total forum-nerdom?

Of course not. Obviously we should wear our nerd badges with pride when we argue the same Axl vs. Slash debate every day.

Yeah, I just looked at my total number of posts and it's clear I passed the point of no return somwhere around 2005.

Glue this to your chest. I'm wearing mine now.

Ha, well done. Between my GNR fandom & Superman comic collection, I'd say I've earned this...

Does anyone else here fight the urge to accuse someone of "trolling" for fear that using word cupcake will cause you to slip into total forum-nerdom?

Of course not. Obviously we should wear our nerd badges with pride when we argue the same Axl vs. Slash debate every day.

Yeah, I just looked at my total number of posts and it's clear I passed the point of no return somwhere around 2005.

Does anyone else here fight the urge to accuse someone of "trolling" for fear that using word cupcake will cause you to slip into total forum-nerdom?

Axl could have easily had an Ozzy type career if he'd wanted to.

that's probably what David Lee Roth thought too.

Roths first two solo efforts went multi-platinum & enjoyed critical and fan acclaim. Just sayin.

Anyway, Axl is closer to Ozzy than Roth, and I think he would have done just fine under the Axl Rose banner. But like Axl said, the label was rooting for him to stick with the GNR name too so he wasn't alone in his thinking, albeit that they were thinking about their wallets while telling him that.

Axl and Slash had Mick and Keith or Page and Plant type status. Can you imagine the Stones or Zeppelin carrying on without Keith or Page?

It's also probably why, deep down, Axl resents Slash so much. If the past 10 years hasn't shown Axl that he was only half the equation in GNR's commercial success, then I don't know what to tell him. That's not to knock the new music, which again, is great. But in terms of GNR's recognizablitity & commercial draw, especially domestically, Slash + Axl = Guns N' Roses in the publics mindseye.

I think that he took hold of the name with a vision to continue to create music.

He also stated that in an interview, wich makes the activity with mostly AFD tours during the years 2000-2011 very questionable.

But I think that things fucked up along the way. People left, Axl may well have doubted his music....well anyway, things certainly didn´t play out as he planned.

Well, I'll tell you this much, we're miles away from his initial vision which, as of 2002, he said the plan was to release a trilogy of albums a year apart while the band toured and recorded continuously throughout that time. Man, did that train derail fast.

I dunno, but in the Del James interview he sounds pretty passionate that he had to have the name i.e. not let it die.

Maybe it's more about self-identity than it is about the music. Axl said Guns is who he is during the chats, so maybe even if they're not releasing or recording music, he MUST still have control over it in his eyes.

...Only to release just 1 album in the almost 20 years since he retained the rights to the Guns N' Roses name?

Before I inevitibly get labeled a "hater" by some, I'd like to make it clear that when all is said and done I'm glad Axl continued the GNR legacy after Slash & Duff's departure, and I really dug the music on Chinese Democracy. So there's that.

Anyway, Axl maintains that he took control of the Guns N' Roses name to "salvage" and continue Guns N' Roses, not to end it...But the last time Axl did any real recording was from 1999 through maybe 2002, not counting the rerecording & tinkering that went on through early 2007.

We saw that the majority of Axl's vocals were laid down early on, many from the initial demos (See the TWAT, IRS, & Catcher 1999 demos, as they're the same vocals that are on the album.) That's a long time ago, more than ten years in some cases!

I recently said in another thread that I'd have no problem whatsoever with Axl calling his band Guns N' Roses, as long as they were releasing more new music & earning the name. But they're not doing that.

So here's a question: If Axl won't or can't (we don't know) release the other album that he already has recorded from the Chinese Democracy sessions, does anyone who's actually been around for a while honestly see Axl ever stepping into the studio again with the intention of writing/recording/releasing a new Guns N' Roses album with the current lineup? Keep in mind how difficult it was for him to complete and release CD back when he had a great deal of backing & financial support from the label. After what went down with CD's release, we have no idea where he currently stands with them.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if whatever else has been recorded during the CD sessions becomes the last official recordings from Guns N' Roses, that is, if they can find a way to get that out, gulp, soon.

Meh, whatever. If Axl simply released more music I'd have no problem with him calling this band Guns N' Roses. It's the fact that he fought so hard to retain it and has only released one album in 20 years under the GNR banner that bothers me.

It won't happen. 9 years is a long time ago, and I think the mainstream ship has sailed for NuGNR.

But it would be cool...And all these people saying "Fuck the VMAs!!" are probably the same people that would be jizzing themselves if it actually happened.

Hits don't mean shit. Estranged was the first single to completely bomb from the Illusions, and today it's revered as the most powerful & classic song from those albums, which that recent poll proved.

Better & TWAT are both amazing songs, hits be damned, and if the next album has similar songs I'll be happy and Axl & GNR will have done their jobs in my eyes.

Irving Azoff basically did that to Axl. Maybe now so is Jimmy Iovine. One thing is for sure, whatever the reason for the delay, they sure aint tellin' us.

If we go by the lyrics in "Sorry", maybe since so many of us think he should release CD2, it only entices Axl not to want to put it out. I'm serious.

How many times has Axl having a small window of time to do something worked out for us? This situation reeks of the "There are X amount of Tuesdays left in 2006." bullshit.

I think by now it's obvious there won't be another album, and at this point a U.S. tour in 2011 is slipping into the 'miracle' territory.

“I certainly hope so,” said Fortus. “We (GNR) are doing some shows in October but hopefully I’ll be free and clear by January.”

That leaves November & December to tour the states and release the next album. Plenty of time. Right, Axl?