Nick85

Well, at least we know the fans aren't the only ones Axl's ignoring.

To be respected as their own band, and not a band that just relies on the classic tunes to stay relevant, then yeah, id say so.

Agreed. Axl hates being compared to the old lineup(s), but releasing 1 unpromoted album in 20 years while touring sporadically throughout that time with a revolving door of guitarists doesn't exactly help that cause.

Even so, the masses have a short memory and everyone loves a comeback. I really believe that if they release the next album promptly, and throw in some real promotion this time around, I'm sure all will be forgiven.

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GNR could put out a badass, epic, tune...But without propper promotion and the support of the label it probably won't fare that well on modern rock charts.

Hell, Better is an amazing rock track, but as we saw without the support of the industry, lack of a video, Axl, etc. it became just an obscure single. Same would happen with an awesome track from CD2 if it was simply put out on the radio.

These days, and very unfortunatly, it takes a lot more than a song simply being "awesome" for it to do well on a commercial level.

It was like that before too. Jungle did not succeed initially, and that had a video, band promo etc.

Yeah, it all comes down to the label backing whatever they're trying to sell to the masses these days. My guess is that any promotion for CD2 would be minimal, and that Axl would have to do a good deal of marketing himself. I doubt he's willing to do that.

That's also why I'd love to see a late-fall release coincide with the U.S. tour. Can you imagine a States tour, new album, & video all happening in the same 3 month time span? Pretty unreal right?

That said, if GNR fans had a dime for every time a great opportunity came and went we'd all be millionaires by now.

GNR could put out a badass, epic, tune...But without propper promotion and the support of the label it probably won't fare that well on modern rock charts.

Hell, Better is an amazing rock track, but as we saw without the support of the industry, lack of a video, Axl, etc. it became just an obscure single. Same would happen with an awesome track from CD2 if it was simply put out on the radio.

These days, and very unfortunatly, it takes a lot more than a song simply being "awesome" for it to do well on a commercial level.

Again...not saying this band operate in an ideal way - far from it. But do I believe we'll hear more material? fuck yeah.

I think we'll hear new music eventually too. But as far as Axl having some kind of "master plan" in place for the rest of the music...I think the master plan ship sailed when he bailed on CD's release.

My guess is that Axl has at least 15-20 more songs recorded, but they're probably the same sound-quality as the last round of leaks that we got from Kevin Skwerl in 2008. Bucket & Robin are probably all over them, and my guess is that Axl is not, at least in his own mind, finished with them since there's still no release in sight.

Although, Ron has been quoted saying that he recorded on a "good handful" of tracks that did not appear on Chinese Deomcracy. So who knows if his guitar work has been mixed in or not yet. If that's the case, it would make sense to have DJ record on at least a couple tracks as well.

Has he done that yet? Who knows. I just want to hear the friggin album.

Does this Robin F guy have a good track record?

No, he does not.

I don't see why he never talks about a new album. It really is like he considers us the enemy and he has to guard all information... for reasons that make 0 sense but in his mind are apparently a very big deal. Don't musicians live to release music? To have what they make heard? I don't consider it artistic to just tour the same songs over and over, the art is lost.

Axl still thinks his songs are the honey pot, but the reality is, outside hardcore Guns N' Roses fans like us, they aren't.

I'm not saying put out all the Bucket/Finck material out on the website for free, but do thing in a more expeditious manner, the songs are losing value as time goes on, even more so when people are forgetting about the band as time goes on..

Where the hell has Axl ever stated anything that would indicate he thinks his songs are the "honey pot"?

As far as putting the CD-era material out on the website for free, that is simply not an option. GN'R is under contract with Universal and no label ever does that. The only reason NIN could do that is that they were not under contract with any label.

Ali

Are you saying that the label may be holding the rest of the CD Era tracks hostage? Because I tend to think that's what Axl's doing to the label, & subsequently the fans. I would agree that it takes both of them to set up a marketing plan & set up expenses, but it takes Axl Rose to pull the trigger and say, "Ok, here's the finished album. Let's put it out now." My guess is after the botched release of CD, Axl is holding out for some huge marketing plan & funding that a NuGNR record probably does not warrant, and more than the label is willing to give. I would imagine that's why we're not listening to the other CD Era tracks right now.

No one (outside the forums) cares who's in GNR these days, as it's been the Axl Rose show for some time now. So it doesn't matter if Bucket, Robin, DJ, Bumble, or Bozo the Clown is on it, and it won't affect sales as long as the songs are good. It would sell on the GNR & Axl name alone, so I just hope they're not spending time rerecording them to make it sound more...current.

On the other hand, the hard truth may be that he simply doesn't want to go through all the drama and work that putting out the next album would entail, going by how unhappy he was with the label after CD's launch. Either way, we just dont know and Axl sure ain't telling us.

I dunno. If I were him, I'd go and do interviews on my own etc to build up the album I've worked so hard on rather than waiting for the record company to do it

He sorta did that with the fan chats and the Del & Billboard interviews. Unfortunately, those interviews contained obviously hand-picked questions and were seemingly done via email. Very impersonal and he spent the bulk of both talking about his frustrations with the label & Slash. The one chance he got to discuss the next record, he batted it away and referred to people looking for release dates as "idiots".

I understand what you're saying, but really, that was back in 2006 that Axl was still talking about the multi-album plan. Who knows what the nightmare of the CD release and the issues with the label did to those plans. What Axl said in 2008, which was after finally getting CD out, sounded like more of an off-the-cuff remark ("same bat time, same bat channel", etc.).

I honestly don't think we're being slighted in regards to new material. I believe that if and when there is something of substance to know in regards to new material, we will know.

Ali

I agree that the the events surrounding Chinese Democracy's release probably changed things a great deal in regard to the remaining songs and what's to be done with them. Obviously, it hasn't affected things in a positive way, since we're having this conversation right now.

Part of me wonders if this is Axl doing the 'victory or death' thing, and waiting until he believes the "Chinese Democracy Tour" is good and finished (U.S. tour?) before he looks forward to the next album. On the other hand, the hard truth may be that he simply doesn't want to go through all the drama and work that putting out the next album would entail, going by how unhappy he was with the label after CD's launch. Either way, we just dont know and Axl sure ain't telling us.

I think Axl's remarks in late 2008 about putting out a new album the next year were really off-the-cuff remarks that were not meant to be taken seriously. Also, I don't think those remarks about the confirmed names of other tracks were in the context of tracks definitively to be on the next album. It was just, "yes, these are additional songs we've recorded".

Ali

Yes, but the truth is that it was not nearly the first time Axl or those close to him have brought up the plan of putting out the multiple albums from the CD Era. In late 2002 he stated that he was keen on releasing three albums over the course of three years while the band toured continuously throughout that time. I know a lot has changed since then, but you can't just say the idea of multiple albums or Axl talking about CD consisting of multiple albums was just an off the cuff idea he was throwing around during the chats.

In 2006, Axl again confirmed to Rolling Stone that he had 32 songs recorded, only 14 of which appeared on CD. Soon after that Sebastian Bach said, albeit an exaggeration, that as of 2006-07 Axl had four albums of material and how Axl told him that The General would be on the third record in 2012. This has been echoed by both DJ & Ron's claims that Axl has multiple albums finished. Ron even lamented the fact saying these tracks contain players that have been gone for five years now.

If there's simply still no plan, well, then that's that and we're not missing out on any news. But I'm not sure which is a bigger slight: Hyping up multiple albums and songs over the years, only to let them collect dust for three years after CD's release with no explanation as to why, or having a plan but not thinking the fans are worth updating.

at the end of the day, UMG's objective is just to make a profit. it doesn't matter to them what axl does, as long as they can make enough money on the deal.

Let's hope that's how they feel and that the label and Axl can come to terms...and soon. Back in early 2010, during the Canadian tour, I PM'd Beta here and asked her if the next album was still on the horizon. She responded that it was "Still on the horizon, but this does not depend only on Axl."

Based on that, I'd wager that Axl's still trying to come to terms with the label in regard to the next release. I wonder where it currently stands. I hope the fact that it's still mums the word from GNR isn't indicative of a 'standstill' for lack of a better term.

Did anybody ever think Axl is reluctant to release material because it might put him back on the top? Maybe he can't deal with being in the biggest band in the world anymore?

Just a thought...

I don't think he fears success. I do, however, believe that he may not want to go through all the motions, like interviews, live promotional appearances, magazine covers, etc. that the label may require of him for them to back the next album, especially after his disappearing act during Chinese Democracy's release. In fact, they just might not know exactly how to market the followup to CD, and that may be the current issue. Maybe it comes down to Axl simply not wanting to be beholden to the label in any way, shape or form....Even if it means him not releasing the rest of the Chinese Democracy Era tracks.

That's a damn shame, cuz I think it's obvious that the fans are missing out on some really great music.

Agreed,there is obviously animosity between GNR and UMG.

Yeah, Axl threw some harsh words their way in the Billboard interview. Who knows whether their relationship has repaired in the two-plus years since. There's really no way we can know whether the label even wants to be troubled with putting out another GNR album after Axl refused to promote it and then placed the blame for the lack of marketing solely on their shoulders. Where did that leave them?

Still, I think CD was profitable for all parties involved going by the 5 million sold world-wide, so maybe they can put their differences aside since perhaps they all stand to gain again from another GNR release. Keep in mind, the album has already been paid for since these tracks were recorded during the CD sessions, which Universal was repaid anyway through the Best Buy deal and any other earnings from CD's release. Other than mastering, if it hasn't already been done, it's been covered.

Again, that's another thing that puzzles me. If the production costs have been covered, and the album is more or less ready to go, what is Axl waiting for?

I wish Axl would drop the name. As much as I like the current line-up of the band, it's fuckin embarrassing when you hear everyday people who aren't fans and only know the original songs chatting shit. It would be so much easier if he did what Slash et al did with Velvet Revolver. Kick ass band, everyone knows the history and everyone respects it's a new band at the same time.

There are ways of keeping the GN'R name and legacy alive without continual member transplants. But who am I to question it.

I agree that these waiting games where Axl continues to hold unreleased music over the heads of the fans does tarnish the GNR name, because like it or not, thats what it is: Another GNR album that's kept in limbo with zero communication from Axl to the fans about its progress.

Some things never change.

What gets me is that Axl could come on here, or take to twitter, and with a few sentences clear the air. Even if there are still no plans set in stone for an upcoming release, we'd at least be clear in what our expectations should be. I know he doesn't owe us anything, as many people like to remind us, but it sure would be awfully nice of him to let us know what's up...

Did anybody ever think Axl is reluctant to release material because it might put him back on the top? Maybe he can't deal with being in the biggest band in the world anymore?

Just a thought...

I don't think he fears success. I do, however, believe that he may not want to go through all the motions, like interviews, live promotional appearances, magazine covers, etc. that the label may require of him for them to back the next album, especially after his disappearing act during Chinese Democracy's release. In fact, they just might not know exactly how to market the followup to CD, and that may be the current issue. Maybe it comes down to Axl simply not wanting to be beholden to the label in any way, shape or form....Even if it means him not releasing the rest of the Chinese Democracy Era tracks.

That's a damn shame, cuz I think it's obvious that the fans are missing out on some really great music.

'We're working on matierial' does not amount to there being a new album on the way.

See, it's posts like this that utterly baffle me. Do many of you not know that from 1998-2006 multiple albums were recorded for a planned trilogy? As recently as two years ago, Axl echoed this, stating that CD was only half of the equation as he always viewed it as a double, confirmed a myriad of song titles, and even said he was hoping for a "same bat time" release for the next one in fall of 2009. Some of you act like the 14 songs released on CD were all that were worked on for the decade that he worked on the album(s). Axl is a lot of things, but he's not stupid. Why would he put the strongest tracks on the first album, and blow his wad right away? He wouldn't.

I've been following the new band since 2000, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard from numerous sources that Axl has multiple albums recorded. Some of the other posters who've been here for a while can confirm this. Here are just some of the confirmed titles for those who need a refresher...

Atlas Shrugged

Thyme

Zodiac

Silkworms

Soul Monster (Leave Me Alone)

Down By The Ocean

Oklahoma

Ides Of March

Quick Song

The General

Plus God knows how many other songs that haven't been revealed to us yet. These are songs that are finished, other than mastering...or rerecording. What DJ said about how they're "writing, recording, throwing around ideas...whatever, doesn't change the fact that these songs are done, and could be released whenever Axl and the label decided they want to. What's keeping the release is a complete mystery to the fans, and is what this thread is about.

In the Del interview in early 2009, Axl said that the next album will have the same style & players, so I expect that it will flow with the first album.

Then again, he hasn't mentioned the next album since then, on any level. God only knows what he wants to do now.

I wonder, is it a total pipe-dream to think it's possible for Axl to surprise us with a late 2011 release? Would we we have heard rumblings of an upcoming release by now?

I guess when you consider that the next album is already complete, other than possible mastering, that a release can come whenever Axl and the label come to terms.

In Bucket's defense, he was the first to jump ship when he saw the CD Train was going nowhere fast. I think he was cool with being Axl's "employee" just like Zakk Wylde was Ozzy's "employee" as long as the band was releasing music he helped write and were touring. They were doing neither when he left, and wouldn't for some time after.

I get not revealing plans until they're set in stone, as it avoids disappointing fans. But letting three years go by after hyping it up, with no mention since seems like a bit of a tease to me, leaving it open-ended like that.

How hard is it to release a statement saying something, anything, to let us know what they're hoping to do, or not do, with it if they're planning on starting fresh.

Not mentioning it at all leads one to believe that Axl may have these songs finished, but has no idea what he's going to do with them.

Seriously, what happened with that, and why is Axl giving fans the silent treatment regarding it?!

Axl talked about releasing the trilogy in 2002, with his claims of multiple albums being recorded backed up by Sebastian Bach in 2007. This year, both Ron & DJ have confirmed that there is also more than 1 album of finished material down the pipes. But no release, that we know of, is remotely close.

The kicker is that during his 'chats' soon after CD's release, Axl seemed quite optimistic about about possibly putting the next album out the following year in 2009, and openly discussed upcoming tracks The General, Atlas Shrugged, & Soul Monster with the fans.

Since then....Nothing. Not a hint from any credible sources that the next album could possibly still be on the horizon. So my question is, why is Axl keeping us in the dark about this? Why would he openly & enthusiastically discuss the next album with us, only to never mention it again for going on 3 years now.

Does anyone think he's scrapping it altogher & starting fresh? IMO, that would be a shame and probably keep this album in limbo for (even more) years on end.

Thoughts?

I was really upset when Bucket left, but after all the wasted years I finally understand it.

Yeah, I was pissed too when he left. But then another four and a half years went by before Axl was happy enough with CD to put it out. Why should he have stayed, just to be at Axl's beckon call whenever he wanted to tour or record with nothing to show for it, much like the current lineup. I'd have passed too were I in his position and just wanted to record and release music. He's doing his thing and seems to enjoy it, so more power to him.

We'll always have TWAT. B)

Ron is no doubt a really nice guy, but I'd still rather be able to listen to Buckethead play live with Axl.

That's what concerns me too. He's a nice guy, but there is just no question that Bucket is a better guitarist. Replacing superior solos & guitar work with mediocre ones just to make them seem like more of band makes no sense to me, and is a bit of an insult to Bucket for the four years he spent waiting & working on that album.

I've never understood why Axl did that. It's not like he actually tries to ever sell these guys as a band anyway. Plus, the general public don't give a shit. Why lessen the music to have an inferior player on it?

I think a lot of it was done to give legitimacy to the current lineup. I mean, I just can't see Axl listening to Ron & Bucket's Shackler's Revenge solos back to back and preferring the one we got, especially when you consider that Bucket wrote that song.

I've never understood that reasoning. Axl is the current lineup to the outside world. He just needs hit songs. It doesn't even really matter (at this point) if the guys who played on them are in the touring lineup. Bucket was the only lead guitar player he's had since Slash that the general public may have bought into.

Agreed. At this point, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone other than hardcore GNR fans on the forums that could name literally one person who plays in GNR these days, let alone care who's actually on the followup to CD. Axl has to know that by now. He had it with Bucket, and to a lesser extent Robin, but not anymore...Other than those weirdo goth chicks who are into DJ Ashba.

As for Bucket and what Sunny was saying, I really don't think they give a custom model Gibson Les Paul to famous 'session mucisians', soon to be two with the Bucket Les Paul Studio. Bucket is, in fact, a very well-known guitar virtuoso with a unique style that's all his own.

He was the first to jump ship when Axl was unable to complete the album within the four years he stuck around, and Axl's more recent statements as well as the fact that they tried to get him back before the 2006 tour (which is why Ron only had two weeks to prep) shows that he understands what a loss that was for GNR.

Ron is no doubt a really nice guy, but I'd still rather be able to listen to Buckethead play live with Axl.

That's what concerns me too. He's a nice guy, but there is just no question that Bucket is a better guitarist. Replacing superior solos & guitar work with mediocre ones just to make them seem like more of band makes no sense to me, and is a bit of an insult to Bucket for the four years he spent waiting & working on that album.

I've never understood why Axl did that. It's not like he actually tries to ever sell these guys as a band anyway. Plus, the general public don't give a shit. Why lessen the music to have an inferior player on it?

I think a lot of it was done to give legitimacy to the current lineup. I mean, I just can't see Axl listening to Ron & Bucket's Shackler's Revenge solos back to back and preferring the one we got, especially when you consider that Bucket wrote that song.

Ron is no doubt a really nice guy, but I'd still rather be able to listen to Buckethead play live with Axl.

That's what concerns me too. He's a nice guy, but there is just no question that Bucket is a better guitarist. Replacing superior solos & guitar work with mediocre ones just to make them seem like more of band makes no sense to me, and is a bit of an insult to Bucket for the four years he spent waiting & working on that album.