Is Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal a Prodigy?

[Young_Gun]

You say Bucket is a pattern guitatist and playing riffs over drums(whatever that means),

You know what that means...

Compare a GnR song to most songs on Monster & Robots or The Elephant Man's Alarm Clock and you'll see the difference...

Same riff played over and over again with small variations then after a while a completely different riff starts with a completely different drum loop, paste the two together and you have a Buckethead song. No chorus, no change of scale, no transitions, just him playing the same stuff over and over again and sometimes he'll bust into a solo ( but most of the time he does not ).

There are exceptions it's true, some of his albums are really brilliant but a lot of his discography sounds like him recording ideas of riffs he'd like to use later for real songs...

Sure it's tasty but it does not really go anywhere...

Most of Bucket's songs are instrumentals, so getting a whole heap of variation would not be so easy as there are no vocals. I have to disagree about him playing the same stuff over and over again. Take "Welcome To Buckethead Land " there are 4 different sections to the song, not including the backing guitar during the solo, id say 4 sections is enough, most songs only have 3(intro, pre chorus, chorus). Bucket solos on most of his songs also, rarely does he not. Music is made up of scales, some songs(most actually) stay in the same scale the whole time, its called being in key. Most Metallica songs are in E Minor, most Iron Maiden songs are in E or A minor etc. Don't Cry is almost all in A Minor(solo included), no change of scales there. Does that degrade them because they don't have a change of scale?

Im trying to see where your coming from but it hard. Bucket is known to use unorthodox scales as well, resulting in a strange exotic sound. He does use alot of Pentatonic and Aeolian minor scales but he has used Ionian scales, major pentatonic scales Dorian minor and others.

[Conor]

He's good... I like his albums and everything, there's some great songs in there, but I don't think he's a prodigy, and that makes no difference anyway to be perfectly, JB said it perfectly a few posts above mine in regards to the Sex Pistols.

[plonker88]

It's times like this we should heed some of the mans own words:

when people assume kindness is weakness, and think they can be a bully to strangers, it usually doesn't work out in reality the way they envision it in their head. Not recommended.

Having honor and treating people right is what makes you a man, and music isn't a big enough reason to put that aside. Yeah it's a GNR forum but y'all are men first, forum members 2nd.

Make the effort to be a better man. Today I helped with funding to take care of children and soldiers that are burn victims. Don't tell me that today you bullied strangers on the web. Be a better man. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to stop cursing so fucking much.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=156827&st=30&p=2543971entry2543971

[Young_Gun]

The Glow Inc. Icon I checked out those four songs. I just want to reiterate that im talking about Ron's lead guitar work, not his rhythm work. Legend Of Van Cleef didn't even have a real solo, while the other 3 songs had the same trademark BBF wank playing. I don't have a problem with his rhythm work, i really liked his rhythm additions to Chinese Democracy(title track), SOD, ITW etc. Hated his lead solos in Rhiad, Catcher and Shacklers though.

[The Glow Inc.]

I have no problem with Bucket's music being instrumental whatsoever.

My favourite BBF songs are instrumental too. They just don't feel like..."ideas of riffs pasted together"...

That's the problem I have with Buckethead's discography, the fact that I can only pick three or four songs on each album that I like because they feel like actual songs.

I mean check "Don Pardo's Pimpwagon" or "R2" by BBF in the links that I posted to see what I mean.

And to make it perfectly clear as regards to John Bonham said :

Do I think he's a prodigy ? Yes...

Do I think he's better than Buckethead ? In some ways, yes.

Do I think either Bucket or Bumble fit Guns n' Roses better than Slash ? No. However it's not really the same band as it used to be so considering the new direction taken by Axl, I think both of them are perfect for the job.

Edited May 3, 2010 by The Glow Inc.

[John Bonham]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

[Young_Gun]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

I didn't mind that solo either, his best solo on the record for sure. Wasn't that solo half Bucket and half Bumble though?

[plonker88]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

His work on Riad is really underrated as well I feel. The way the solo blends with the drums throughout, an example is at the end of the solo with the floor tom hits and then his work under Axl's scream takes it to a whole new level for me.

[Bruno P.]

When I think of prodigy, I think of someone exceptionally talented and the talent almost comes easily to him/her. In that way, I think of Ron as a prodigy in how he appears to almost easily change the type of music he plays, quickly adapting without what appears to be a lot of preparation or thought.

Got it from Slipdisc's post @ NewGnR forum

He has perfect pitch and a photographic memory for music, so playing back a song (any song) and trying to include the other parts (bass, other guitars, keys) at the same time is second nature to him. He's the only player I've ever seen (other than Guthrie perhaps) who has the ability to play anything, of any genre, and make it seem like he's been doing it for years. His abilities transcend technique. He could listen to the most insanely difficult piece and play it back. It's unreal.

I was in a music store one time with Ron and a guitarist was testing out an amp. He was a fairly advanced jazz player and was playing some very cool walking jazz chord stuff, with a bit of improvisation thrown in. Ron wasn't plugged in, but was playing a guitar and played EVERYTHING note for note which that guy played. Chords, improvised melody lines - everything. It sounded like a one second delay was turned on. Ron wasn't playing loud enough for the guy to hear him and he wasn't making fun of his playing. He was simply repeating everything because he thought what the guy was playing was cool. When somebody has that quick and perfect of a musical ear AND there is no technique that holds him back, the door is wide open to any possibility.

[The Glow Inc.]

He's a "decent" jazz player too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDvIkDp0bM

[Cdlove]

Bumble is by far my favorite guitarist. He is one of the few guitarist that can play any basic style there is, Bucket does this well also.

[Vincent Vega]

He is the chosen one.

[Cdlove]

He is the chosen one.

When he leaves GnR after all the CD tracks are out(Itll happen) he'll be the next Buckethead.

[gnr-dave]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

That is because Ron can shread great, he cannot play melodically. Most of his shredding on CD is fine, its when he tries to play blueys stuff he faulters.

[Tater Totts]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

That is because Ron can shread great, he cannot play melodically. Most of his shredding on CD is fine, its when he tries to play blueys stuff he faulters.

And yet again you have been proved wrong by the posts to the youtube videos a couple of pages back where Ron was playing very melodically.

[Bruno P.]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

That is because Ron can shread great, he cannot play melodically. Most of his shredding on CD is fine, its when he tries to play blueys stuff he faulters.

And yet again you have been proved wrong by the posts to the youtube videos a couple of pages back where Ron was playing very melodically.

He wants to ignore this. His brain ain't very smart. Not his fault. He didn't even know how to spell Buckethead's name corretly.. The guy even consider Ron's Scraped solo a shred

I'm sure he says that Ron shreds a lot on the Catcher in the Rye outro as well. His melodic rhythm in Chi Dem is ridiculous. His bluesy licks in the 2nd chorus of Better and last chorus of SR are horrible as well. His rhythm and solos played on Sorry are tasteless. The rhythm throughout If The World and SOD... his rhythm work in Maddy (especially during Bucket's solo), his rhythm in Prostitute, ah, he guy can't play melodic stuff. He's a shredder and that is.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Bruno Poeys

[gnr-dave]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

That is because Ron can shread great, he cannot play melodically. Most of his shredding on CD is fine, its when he tries to play blueys stuff he faulters.

And yet again you have been proved wrong by the posts to the youtube videos a couple of pages back where Ron was playing very melodically.

No he was not, it was not very good at all the clips that have been shown.

Hell listen to his KOHD solos which are simple, he cannot even play those well.

Ron is TERRIBLE at playing anything melodically.

[gnr-dave]

As much as I hate to admit it - Ron's solo on "Scraped" is pretty sick.

That is because Ron can shread great, he cannot play melodically. Most of his shredding on CD is fine, its when he tries to play blueys stuff he faulters.

And yet again you have been proved wrong by the posts to the youtube videos a couple of pages back where Ron was playing very melodically.

He wants to ignore this. His brain ain't very smart. Not his fault. He didn't even know how to spell Buckethead's name corretly.. The guy even consider Ron's Scraped solo a shred

I'm sure he says that Ron shreds a lot on the Catcher in the Rye outro as well. His melodic rhythm in Chi Dem is ridiculous. His bluesy licks in the 2nd chorus of Better and last chorus of SR are horrible as well. His rhythm and solos played on Sorry are tasteless. The rhythm throughout If The World and SOD... his rhythm work in Maddy (especially during Bucket's solo), his rhythm in Prostitute, ah, he guy can't play melodic stuff. He's a shredder and that is.

You dont even know who is playing what because half of the stuff you claimed isnt even right.

[plonker88]

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/hit_the_lights/bumblefoot_chinese_democracy_is_gnrs_white_album_the_beatles.html

Not many people know this but Ron actually plays on every track of the album.

On what parts of 'Chinese Democracy' would you say your guitar playing can be particularly heard, and how would you describe those parts?

I think before I played on 'Chinese Democracy', it seemed very tight and more industrial when I listened to it. I felt like the album needed sleaze, and just more sloppy rock 'n' roll (laughs). I put on rhythm tracks that were more riffy; if you listen more towards the right speaker, you just hear this kind of brown toned Marshall rhythm track which just throws a lot of riffs in there and stuff. Things like that I put in there, and all the fretless stuff. I could go through every song, and tell you what I did. Let's see... "Chinese Democracy"; rhythm tracks, and all the fretless stuff in the verses I came up with... "Shackler's Revenge"; riffs during the verses, rhythms, and all kinds of bends and tapping melodies at the end of the last chorus, and the guitar solos. Live I sing the chorus and play the tapping solo at the same time... "Better"; rhythm tracks, and a little slide in this one empty spot, on the fretless. In the second verse, I added some kind of bluesy riffs under the vocals... "Street of Dreams"; rhythm stuff and riffs... "If the World"; little solo riffs during the verses, and the chorus and rhythm tracks, and a couple of little solo things going into the choruses and under the choruses... "There Was A Time"; rhythms in the choruses with a riffy little lift towards the end of each, rhythms throughout... "Catcher in the Rye"; I came up with little parts for the guitars and melodies throughout the verses, rhythm tracks, the solo, the end solos, going back and forth with Axl's vocals... "Scraped"; rhythm tracks, solo on the fretless guitar... "Riad N' the Bedouins"; the main solo in the middle of the song, and rhythm tracks throughout... "Sorry"; rhythm tracks, and at the end of each chorus there's a solo guitar going on, that's my soloing there... "I. R. S."; just rhythm, and sleazy stuff throughout, riffy stuff throughout the song... "Madagascar"; rhythms in the choruses, and just slight riffy shit to the rhythms every once in awhile, breaking out in the choruses... "This I Love"; just rhythms underneath it all... "Prostitute"; just rhythms throughout... Yeah. That I believe is everything. I think (laughs).

Edited May 3, 2010 by plonker88

[gnr-dave]

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/hit_the_lights/bumblefoot_chinese_democracy_is_gnrs_white_album_the_beatles.html

Not many people know this but Ron actually plays on every track of the album.

Yeah big deal, he plays a few riffs and here thing on some sorrys (ie sorry and this i love)

Just look at this I love for example. Robin has the solo, and the only other guitar part is that lame strum during the chorus.

That is Ron, what great job Ron with those few strums of the guitar. What did he even do on Sorry? Those little noodles, big deal.

Its a joke axl added to him to every track even when it was not needed just to get him on every track.

He said basically what I did, he didnt add anything that was needed.

The leaks were fine without him. He just was added to the tracks just to get him on the album, which is why the album is such a mess.

Edited May 3, 2010 by gnr-dave

[plonker88]

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/hit_the_lights/bumblefoot_chinese_democracy_is_gnrs_white_album_the_beatles.html

Not many people know this but Ron actually plays on every track of the album.

Yeah big deal, he plays a few riffs and here thing on some sorrys (ie sorry and this i love)

Just look at this I love for example. Robin has the solo, and the only other guitar part is that lame strum during the chorus.

That is Ron, what great job Ron with those few strums of the guitar. What did he even do on Sorry?

Its a joke axl added to him to every track even when it was not needed just to get him on every track.

Angry bear, poke poke.

My plan is working.

Edited May 3, 2010 by plonker88

[Tater Totts]

Quick get the honey!

[plonker88]

[Tater Totts]

[Nintari]

But whether a song is good or not is entirely subjective. Music isn't a democracy, and critical acclaim is no measure of musical skill, AC/DC have sold shitloads more records than Guns N Roses, does that mean they're better and that all GNR fans must concede this point?

Yes, it means they're better at writing songs people want to hear. As I said, there's writing "songs" and then there's writing songs that sound good to a majority of listeners. The best song writers are the ones who are good at that. Some of them use their talents to "sell out", others don't. Either way, the true measure of a good song is how many people enjoy it. Just because you and I enjoy obscure, eccentric music, doesn't mean shit. The best songs are the songs that move the WORLD, not a few thousand people.

What we're debating here is Ron Thal's skill as a musician and on that score there can be no doubt he knows more than anyone else who has played in Guns N Roses before and since.

If we're talking about physically flying around a fret board, then yes...I agree. If we're talking about composition? Then I adamantly disagree.

If writing a catchy tune that makes a hit somehow makes you a better musician, let's stick the Bay City Rollers and Nicola Benedetti in a room and see who ends up playing circles around whom.

Didn't The Beatles once say all you need is three chords? A great song doesn't need anything more then that. Kurt Cobain moved and entire GENERATION with the skill set of a 14 year old. Bob Dylan couldn't sing OR play for shit either, yet...he's regarded as one of the best musicians ever.

Ron has never gotten to that level and never will. And there's a reason for that.....

Edited May 3, 2010 by Nintari