Axl Rose slams Azoff

[D-GenerationX]

Axl's countersuit is a defensive move on his lawyers part and since he doesn't seem inclined to settle with Azoff it is a smart move for the short term..............If everything Axl says is true he would have filed long before Azoff did....Axl and his lawyers are throwing shit against the wall in some hope that some of it sticks.........you all can cheer him on as being a rebel taking giving the finger to the big bad wolf but remember one thing....... even if he should somehow win, which I doubt , he still has to deal with Azoff's TM/LN, which controls 95% of the ticket sales and most of the major venues in the U.S. if he wants to do a real tour of the U.S.......................you have to know when to hold em and when to fold em and Axl is holding his cards too long in this case........he should settle and move on.........

I have to agree. I don't know winnable this fight is in the grand scheme of it all.

[Guest gunns5]

If you people think Azoff wont manage the ticket sales for Guns N Roses just because of Axl suing him is laughable at the very least.

Azoff LOVES to make money, its his job to make as much money as he can.

Axl might win this court battle, but even if Azoff loses the court battle, he will still more than happily, open his arms up to Guns N Roses BECAUSE there going to be selling loads of seats in the U.S (if they tour there this year/next year).

Why would Azoff turn down guaranteed money in ticket sales just because someone sued him? Theres no personal grudges when it comes down to business, this isn't preshool, if theres money to be made, they dont give a fuck if you sued them in 1965/1985/2010 whatever, money is money no matter where it comes from.

[Naupis]

there going to be selling loads of seats in the U.S

Maybe you should pass around whatever you're smoking to the rest of us, it must be some pretty good shit.

[Carne_asaDA]

If you people think Azoff wont manage the ticket sales for Guns N Roses just because of Axl suing him is laughable at the very least.

Azoff LOVES to make money, its his job to make as much money as he can.

Axl might win this court battle, but even if Azoff loses the court battle, he will still more than happily, open his arms up to Guns N Roses BECAUSE there going to be selling loads of seats in the U.S (if they tour there this year/next year).

Why would Azoff turn down guaranteed money in ticket sales just because someone sued him? Theres no personal grudges when it comes down to business, this isn't preshool, if theres money to be made, they dont give a fuck if you sued them in 1965/1985/2010 whatever, money is money no matter where it comes from.

Because Azoff already tried to do business with Axl once before. That didn't turn out too well did it? Why would he do business with him again? The money to be made may not be worth it in the long run. Besides, Axl is not a big money maker compared to other touring artists that Azoff would work with.

[Naupis]

If you people think Azoff wont manage the ticket sales for Guns N Roses just because of Axl suing him is laughable at the very least.

Azoff LOVES to make money, its his job to make as much money as he can.

Axl might win this court battle, but even if Azoff loses the court battle, he will still more than happily, open his arms up to Guns N Roses BECAUSE there going to be selling loads of seats in the U.S (if they tour there this year/next year).

Why would Azoff turn down guaranteed money in ticket sales just because someone sued him? Theres no personal grudges when it comes down to business, this isn't preshool, if theres money to be made, they dont give a fuck if you sued them in 1965/1985/2010 whatever, money is money no matter where it comes from.

Because Azoff already tried to do business with Axl once before. That didn't turn out too well did it? Why would he do business with him again? The money to be made may not be worth it in the long run. Besides, Axl is not a big money maker compared to other touring artists that Azoff would work with.

Exactly. The Canadian tour was supposedly well attended and according to Axl at least lost money. Don't see how that would make anyone think GNR touring America would be any sort of financial boon.

[Black Sabbath]

seven more pages for an even 50

[oki]

Because Azoff already tried to do business with Axl once before. That didn't turn out too well did it? Why would he do business with him again? The money to be made may not be worth it in the long run. Besides, Axl is not a big money maker compared to other touring artists that Azoff would work with.

you idiot...Gnr were always at the top of the list of top touring bands of the list during asıa,canada and south america...more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

[Orsys]

I would be curious to know how many of the lawsuits Axl has been involved in over the years were settled and how many he won/lost. I suspect the great majority were settled because that's the way lawyers roll.

So he likely goes into these lawsuits knowing they will be settled, but gets to have a voice about it in the meantime. Both lawsuits will likely be settled, and they will both have made their points, and the lawyers will win.

[Naupis]

more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

And the tour lost money according to Axl. Somewhere there is a very big problem obviously that that many people can come to the shows and itis not profitable.

[classicrawker]

you idiot...Gnr were always at the top of the list of top touring bands of the list during asıa,canada and south america...more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

Azoff runs Ticketmaster/ Live Nation which is a U.S. based ticket service. As previously mentioned they control 95% of the ticket sales, have exclusive ticket distribution deals with most of the major venues here and also own over 75 major venues here in the U.S. now that TM has merged with Live Nation....

Your comment about NuGnR being a top touring band in Asia, Canada, and S America has no bearing on how they will sell here in the U.S.....during the 2001/2002 tour they averaged just over 8K tickets sold for the 15 Arena venues on the tour which held 15K plus so they barely half filled most of the shows.........Not sure how they sold on their last tour here but the show I went to was not sold out......

NuGnR is no longer a "top touring band" here in the U.S. anymore. ChiDem did not sell well here as big box store chain Best Buy lost a ton of money on their exclusive deal and NuGnR will most likely have trouble selling tickets here in the U.S. should they tour again....

If Azoff thought they were such a hot property he would have kissed Axl's ass to stay as his manager instead of dropping NuGnR from his client list and then sueing him...

Azoff may not fuck with Axl should NuGnR decide to tour here again, although he has the power to do so if he wants to, but there is little financial incentive for him to work with Axl again...If Axl wants to make any money touring here in the U.S. he needs to go through TM/LN to sell tickets and book venues....Bottom line Axl needs Azoff a hell of a lot more then Azoff needs Axl...........

With all due respect, I admire your loyalty to Axl but know the facts before you start insulting people...........

Edited May 24, 2010 by classicrawker

[D..]

Bottom line Axl needs Azoff a hell of a lot more then Azoff needs Axl...........

Axl just needs his musicians. With this line-up they don't need anyone else to prove they kick every band's ass on stage. They are one of the hottest touring band around as of 2010, if I didn't believe it, I would never make all the travel to Norway and stuff which is going to be a pain in my fucking ass (at least financially), I've never been to Norway, I'm going alone, don't speak their language and have to do this money change shit, I would never have done this trip for any other band in the world. They put a show that is so great that I'm willing to do this trip.

Azoff is old and ugly, Axl doesn't need this piece of shit. Eventually by touring all continents around the world they'll prove again they are the best, it's just a matter of time. I think that they'll have a better success than during the 2002 tour since Axl is back on top of his game vocally and the lineup is overall better than the 2002 one and since Chinese Democracy is finally out even if it's not that big of a hit in america I think they have their chances to fill arenas. If they drop CD II along the way it'd be magnificient.

[twenty-nine]

Axl wouldn't be suing if Azoff wasn't doing it in the first place.

So Axl strikes you as a "let bygones be bygones" kind of guy? I don't buy that.

[classicrawker]

Bottom line Axl needs Azoff a hell of a lot more then Azoff needs Axl...........

Axl just needs his musicians. With this line-up they don't need anyone else to prove they kick every band's ass on stage. They are one of the hottest touring band around as of 2010, if I didn't believe it, I would never make all the travel to Norway and stuff which is going to be a pain in my fucking ass (at least financially), I've never been to Norway, I'm going alone, don't speak their language and have to do this money change shit, I would never have done this trip for any other band in the world. They put a show that is so great that I'm willing to do this trip.

Azoff is old and ugly, Axl doesn't need this piece of shit. Eventually by touring all continents around the world they'll prove again they are the best, it's just a matter of time. I think that they'll have a better success than during the 2002 tour since Axl is back on top of his game vocally and the lineup is overall better than the 2002 one and since Chinese Democracy is finally out even if it's not that big of a hit in america I think they have their chances to fill arenas. If they drop CD II along the way it'd be magnificient.

D.., you and the others keep saying they are one of the hottest touring bands...maybe in other parts of the world but not in the U.S.............Based on the sales ChiDem was not popular here and the previous tours were less than sellouts so what is going to make things different this time for NuGnR? If based on the last few tours here how can you say he will fill arenas in the U.S.? Whether you want to face the reality or not U.S. music fans just don't care about NuGnR...........

Call Azoff all the names you want but his company controls the concert business here in the U.S.............................If Axl does not work with TM/LN then NuGnR will be playing at State Fairs or small theaters here next tour..

Bottom line Axl and NuGnR need Azoff's TM/LN to make any money on tour here in the U.S....Azoff does not need Axl and NuGnR half filled Arena shows to make his money............the only way GnR would sell out concerts here is if they have some guy named Slash playing lead guitar in the band....................................some times reality sucks...............

Edited May 24, 2010 by classicrawker

[plonker88]

Axl wouldn't be suing if Azoff wasn't doing it in the first place.

So Axl strikes you as a "let bygones be bygones" kind of guy? I don't buy that.

You're right, he waited for close to half a year to launch this case and timed it perfectly with Azoff's actions, the man is a genius.

[Cdlove]

more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

And the tour lost money according to Axl. Somewhere there is a very big problem obviously that that many people can come to the shows and itis not profitable.

Yea....But the SA tour got GnR 15 mill.

[Carne_asaDA]

quote name='oki' date='24 May 2010 - 08:27 AM' timestamp='1274707648' post='2678883']

Because Azoff already tried to do business with Axl once before. That didn't turn out too well did it? Why would he do business with him again? The money to be made may not be worth it in the long run. Besides, Axl is not a big money maker compared to other touring artists that Azoff would work with.

you idiot...Gnr were always at the top of the list of top touring bands of the list during asıa,canada and south america...more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

We are not talking about those countries.

There are way bigger fish than GnR when it comes to touring in the U.S. and also the globe.

[ManetsBR]

more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

More than 130.000 fans attented to the 5 Brazil concerts alone...

More than 350.000 fans attented to the 12 South American Concerts alone...

And Ticketmaster wasn't the major seller. In Brazil and Argentina, the biggest public, it was T4F (the producer itself) and Ticketek.

Guns N' Roses profited +/- 15 million dollars.

Edited May 24, 2010 by ManetsBR

[Orsys]

Axl wouldn't be suing if Azoff wasn't doing it in the first place.

So Axl strikes you as a "let bygones be bygones" kind of guy? I don't buy that.

You're right, he waited for close to half a year to launch this case and timed it perfectly with Azoff's actions, the man is a genius.

It seems Axl waited for a break in the tour to launch the suit.

Another possibility in all of this is that Azoff beat him to the punch with his own suit. He did, after all, leave right at the beginning of the tour as Axl has asserted in his suit. Axl wasn't happy about it even back then and mentioned a couple of times during the tour that he was without management.. Azoff knew it was coming and threw a preemptive strike. It's very possible.

[D..]

Bottom line Axl needs Azoff a hell of a lot more then Azoff needs Axl...........

Axl just needs his musicians. With this line-up they don't need anyone else to prove they kick every band's ass on stage. They are one of the hottest touring band around as of 2010, if I didn't believe it, I would never make all the travel to Norway and stuff which is going to be a pain in my fucking ass (at least financially), I've never been to Norway, I'm going alone, don't speak their language and have to do this money change shit, I would never have done this trip for any other band in the world. They put a show that is so great that I'm willing to do this trip.

Azoff is old and ugly, Axl doesn't need this piece of shit. Eventually by touring all continents around the world they'll prove again they are the best, it's just a matter of time. I think that they'll have a better success than during the 2002 tour since Axl is back on top of his game vocally and the lineup is overall better than the 2002 one and since Chinese Democracy is finally out even if it's not that big of a hit in america I think they have their chances to fill arenas. If they drop CD II along the way it'd be magnificient.

D.., you and the others keep saying they are one of the hottest touring bands...maybe in other parts of the world but not in the U.S.............Based on the sales ChiDem was not popular here and the previous tours were less than sellouts so what is going to make things different this time for NuGnR? If based on the last few tours here how can you say he will fill arenas in the U.S.? Whether you want to face the reality or not U.S. music fans just don't care about NuGnR...........

Call Azoff all the names you want but his company controls the concert business here in the U.S.............................If Axl does not work with TM/LN then NuGnR will be playing at State Fairs or small theaters here next tour..

Bottom line Axl and NuGnR need Azoff's TM/LN to make any money on tour here in the U.S....Azoff does not need Axl and NuGnR half filled Arena shows to make his money............the only way GnR would sell out concerts here is if they have some guy named Slash playing lead guitar in the band....................................some times reality sucks...............

I'm not saying GNR are one of the hottest touring bands concerning money, I'm talking music here, quality music. Eventually since they're so good on stage they'll prove to the world they must come to their shows.

This time around is different because Chinese Democracy is out.

As for your last point, it makes me laugh. Of course Guns N' Roses would be making a lot more money and sell out arenas if Slash was in, but Axl is never going to reunite with them. Reality doesn't suck because Axl refuses that, he's a man of honour and didn't abandon GNR, if people eventually don't want GNR to exist without Slash, then be it, time will tell, but this is what suck, people are misinformed and close-minded, this new band kicks ass and I don't care about Slash, I want to see the new band and hopefully I hope others will think the way I do so we can attend to more great shows.

[classicrawker]

Bottom line Axl needs Azoff a hell of a lot more then Azoff needs Axl...........

Axl just needs his musicians. With this line-up they don't need anyone else to prove they kick every band's ass on stage. They are one of the hottest touring band around as of 2010, if I didn't believe it, I would never make all the travel to Norway and stuff which is going to be a pain in my fucking ass (at least financially), I've never been to Norway, I'm going alone, don't speak their language and have to do this money change shit, I would never have done this trip for any other band in the world. They put a show that is so great that I'm willing to do this trip.

Azoff is old and ugly, Axl doesn't need this piece of shit. Eventually by touring all continents around the world they'll prove again they are the best, it's just a matter of time. I think that they'll have a better success than during the 2002 tour since Axl is back on top of his game vocally and the lineup is overall better than the 2002 one and since Chinese Democracy is finally out even if it's not that big of a hit in america I think they have their chances to fill arenas. If they drop CD II along the way it'd be magnificient.

D.., you and the others keep saying they are one of the hottest touring bands...maybe in other parts of the world but not in the U.S.............Based on the sales ChiDem was not popular here and the previous tours were less than sellouts so what is going to make things different this time for NuGnR? If based on the last few tours here how can you say he will fill arenas in the U.S.? Whether you want to face the reality or not U.S. music fans just don't care about NuGnR...........

Call Azoff all the names you want but his company controls the concert business here in the U.S.............................If Axl does not work with TM/LN then NuGnR will be playing at State Fairs or small theaters here next tour..

Bottom line Axl and NuGnR need Azoff's TM/LN to make any money on tour here in the U.S....Azoff does not need Axl and NuGnR half filled Arena shows to make his money............the only way GnR would sell out concerts here is if they have some guy named Slash playing lead guitar in the band....................................some times reality sucks...............

I'm not saying GNR are one of the hottest touring bands concerning money, I'm talking music here, quality music. Eventually since they're so good on stage they'll prove to the world they must come to their shows.

This time around is different because Chinese Democracy is out.

As for your last point, it makes me laugh. Of course Guns N' Roses would be making a lot more money and sell out arenas if Slash was in, but Axl is never going to reunite with them. Reality doesn't suck because Axl refuses that, he's a man of honour and didn't abandon GNR, if people eventually don't want GNR to exist without Slash, then be it, time will tell, but this is what suck, people are misinformed and close-minded, this new band kicks ass and I don't care about Slash, I want to see the new band and hopefully I hope others will think the way I do so we can attend to more great shows.

I agree with you I don't think there will be any reunion and I also agree Axl is making quality music but that does not change the fact that NuGnR does not have a following here in the U.S or the fact that Axl needs TM/LN to be successful here which is related to the original topic of the thread.....

At least for now Azoff and TM/LN do not have the power abroad they have here and NuGnR does draw well outside the U.S. but I wonder how long the band can last without a fan base in the largest music market in the world? SOme on the forum here beleive that NuGnR does not need the U.S. to be successful but personally I have my doubts in the long run...................

[saint_seiya]

sounds like you're a closed minded american who thinks usa is the center of the universe, guess what, those countries are doing better than the US

Edited May 24, 2010 by saint_seiya

[classicrawker]

sounds like you're a closed minded american who thinks usa is the center of the universe, guess what, those countries are doing better than the US

You read me wrong Saint Seiya I mean no disrespect to countries outside the U.S............... I work for a large engineering company and deal with our overseas offices and have traveled to many parts of the world. I do not think the U.S. is the center of the universe by any means but I do a lot of reading related to music and from what I have read the U.S. is the most lucrative market for performing artists like NuGnR. The U.S. has the largest number of large Stadium and Arena venues in the World and artists can make more touring here then anywhere else in the World....NuGnR can make money touring outside the U.S. but this is where the big money is just due to the sheer size of the country and number of big venues........

[SaskGunner]

Azoff and Axl likely had lawyers working on these suits for awhile, Azoff just beat Axl to the punch. Regardless it will end like every other Axl Rose lawsuit and be settled for an untold sum at some point in time as the suit doesn't really seem definitively winable from either side.

[kyrie]

more than 100.000 fans attented to the 13 canada shows alone...

And the tour lost money according to Axl. Somewhere there is a very big problem obviously that that many people can come to the shows and itis not profitable.

This is likely due to the accusation that the band had to pay for a bunch of the routing and crew stuff...

I'm guessing that was very unexpected/last minute and probably cost more as a result.

Tours like that are expensive to put on, period, when you factor in production costs.

[God of Thunder]

Azoff and Axl likely had lawyers working on these suits for awhile, Azoff just beat Axl to the punch. Regardless it will end like every other Axl Rose lawsuit and be settled for an untold sum at some point in time as the suit doesn't really seem definitively winable from either side.

I don`t think this is a wining or loosing suit....Most likely in the end it will come down to some sort of settlement. This is where lawyers make easy money...