Why is GnR different?

[zepsun]

I work in the music industry. Everyone in the office knows the band as Axl's cover band. No one, NO ONE, in my office, after 2002's show has any interest in seeing them live. I have friends that aren't massive GNR fans, but they are aware (not through me) that the band is just Axl (Most people don't know Dizzy was there from Illusions OR they're not even aware of him). I know people in the office that have gone to see Slash's show and Velvet Revolver... and enjoy such shows.

No one, I know of, in my office has bought any CD tracks.. A few in the office have VR tracks and some Slash tracks.

All I know is, people I work with in the office think it was the wrong move to keep the GNR name and continue as a band with only 1 member remaining from the original band. Whether or not Axl believes he made the right/wrong move is irrelevant. He should have been aware of branding/marketing and understood there would have been a backlash. He also should have understood that with his name, Axl Rose, he could have easily sold a lot of records/concert tickets. In doing so, he would not have lost any respect from the general public. There would also be no pride-related grief associated with re-grouping the original lineup, if he chose to do so. At this stage, the strong things he has said regarding the old band and Slash in particular will probably come back to haunt him (in media, from fans, or current/former band members) if he were to reunite.

Just my qualitative analysis. lol

Just because the people in your office are in the music industry doesn't mean they're not douchebags

Interesting reply... I was only trying to relay what people (whose job it is to know everything in entertainment, who write entertainment news, who book music/movie/tv guests etc., basically people who KNOW THEIR SHIT, other than this board of GNR hardcores) were thinking. If you want to reply with a grade 5 response, it only shows who the true 'douchebag' is. Just trying to paint a picture of what life in the real world is like kiddo - oustide of your bedroom.

Edited November 28, 2011 by zepsun

[packersnroses]

I work in the music industry. Everyone in the office knows the band as Axl's cover band. No one, NO ONE, in my office, after 2002's show has any interest in seeing them live. I have friends that aren't massive GNR fans, but they are aware (not through me) that the band is just Axl (Most people don't know Dizzy was there from Illusions OR they're not even aware of him). I know people in the office that have gone to see Slash's show and Velvet Revolver... and enjoy such shows.

No one, I know of, in my office has bought any CD tracks.. A few in the office have VR tracks and some Slash tracks.

All I know is, people I work with in the office think it was the wrong move to keep the GNR name and continue as a band with only 1 member remaining from the original band. Whether or not Axl believes he made the right/wrong move is irrelevant. He should have been aware of branding/marketing and understood there would have been a backlash. He also should have understood that with his name, Axl Rose, he could have easily sold a lot of records/concert tickets. In doing so, he would not have lost any respect from the general public. There would also be no pride-related grief associated with re-grouping the original lineup, if he chose to do so. At this stage, the strong things he has said regarding the old band and Slash in particular will probably come back to haunt him (in media, from fans, or current/former band members) if he were to reunite.

Just my qualitative analysis. lol

Just because the people in your office are in the music industry doesn't mean they're not douchebags

Interesting reply... I was only trying to relay what people (whose job it is to know everything in entertainment, who write entertainment news, who book music/movie/tv guests etc., basically people who KNOW THEIR SHIT, other than this board of GNR hardcores) were thinking. If you want to reply with a grade 5 response, it only shows who the true 'douchebag' is. Just trying to paint a picture of what life in the real world is like kiddo - oustide of your bedroom.

Maybe my reply was a bit immature, but it still stands. Their opinion about the band name isn't more valid then the opinions of the GnR board, just because they work in music biz.

[Damn_Smooth]

I work in the music industry. Everyone in the office knows the band as Axl's cover band. No one, NO ONE, in my office, after 2002's show has any interest in seeing them live. I have friends that aren't massive GNR fans, but they are aware (not through me) that the band is just Axl (Most people don't know Dizzy was there from Illusions OR they're not even aware of him). I know people in the office that have gone to see Slash's show and Velvet Revolver... and enjoy such shows.

No one, I know of, in my office has bought any CD tracks.. A few in the office have VR tracks and some Slash tracks.

All I know is, people I work with in the office think it was the wrong move to keep the GNR name and continue as a band with only 1 member remaining from the original band. Whether or not Axl believes he made the right/wrong move is irrelevant. He should have been aware of branding/marketing and understood there would have been a backlash. He also should have understood that with his name, Axl Rose, he could have easily sold a lot of records/concert tickets. In doing so, he would not have lost any respect from the general public. There would also be no pride-related grief associated with re-grouping the original lineup, if he chose to do so. At this stage, the strong things he has said regarding the old band and Slash in particular will probably come back to haunt him (in media, from fans, or current/former band members) if he were to reunite.

Just my qualitative analysis. lol

Just because the people in your office are in the music industry doesn't mean they're not douchebags

Interesting reply... I was only trying to relay what people (whose job it is to know everything in entertainment, who write entertainment news, who book music/movie/tv guests etc., basically people who KNOW THEIR SHIT, other than this board of GNR hardcores) were thinking. If you want to reply with a grade 5 response, it only shows who the true 'douchebag' is. Just trying to paint a picture of what life in the real world is like kiddo - oustide of your bedroom.

If you were in the music biz, you would know that any form of musical publication would kill for an interview with Axl. Why do you think that we knew almost every detail of the Eddie Trunk interview before it aired? It was because people who were really in the music biz hounded him until he gave up the info. People who are really in the music biz want an interview with Axl so bad that they interviewed the guy that got an interview with Axl. That definitely doesn't sound like disinterest to me, or anybody that has the ability to form a logical thought process to think about the situation.

[Aussiegun]

If Coldplay's singer replaced everyone in the band, stayed out of the spotlight for years, developed a terrible media reputation, released 1 album with new band, while still calling themselves Coldplay, and have gone thru the many other problems GNR has, he'd probably have a tough time getting people to want to hear his new music too.

I think Chris Martin would have an easier time of it, as long as what the music he reintroduced was of a commercial quality, and a hit would put him back on top.

Plus no one knows the other guys in the band, people wouldn't give a shit about that aspect.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Aussiegun

[WhazUp]

If Coldplay's singer replaced everyone in the band, stayed out of the spotlight for years, developed a terrible media reputation, released 1 album with new band, while still calling themselves Coldplay, and have gone thru the many other problems GNR has, he'd probably have a tough time getting people to want to hear his new music too.

I think Chris Martin would have an easier time of it, as long as what the music he reintroduced was of a commercial quality, and a hit would put him back on top.

Plus no one knows the other guys in the band, people wouldn't give a shit about that aspect.

That's very true once you have more than one member that is well known and/or a certain image if the band in question deviates from that then its almost certain there would be some backlash. That's why if Chris Martin got new guys and marketed it as Coldplay, as long as the new guys fit the image that surrounds the band currently then there wouldn't be a huge backlash like GNR had (plus from what I remember Chris writes most of the lyrics and music, unlike old GNR)

[RussTCB]

Was listening to Coldplay's 'Paradise', I think it's a pretty good song. Nice melodies and piano work, just like Guns. Coldplay's newest album sold something like 447,000 units in it's first week and was number 1 on the US Billboard top 200. Now I have expressed that the lead single is a great song, but nothing to the likes of Better, TWAT, Prostitute etc. They also sell out most of their shows, and I would think Guns N' Roses would smoke the shit out of a Coldplay concert. So what is the difference? Lack of promotion? Lack of music videos? Not being 'safe' enough? Was it Coldplay's consistent and solid build up from their debut album and superseding records? Guns lack of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-etc?? What do you guys think?

I'm not knocking Guns at all either, I wish Chidem was the most openly respected album in the last decade as it deserves to be.

Lack of promotion absolutely killed Chinese Democracy in the US. If the record were promoted half as well as anything Coldplay has done, it would have been a massive hit.

I'm sorry, but I still don't buy into that crap. The label promoted it on their end. It was everywhere at the time. TV spots, people talking on entertainment shows and late night talk shows, magazine articles. I know not everyone was following the band's every step from 1994-2008, but if you even remotely cared about GNR, you'd at least know that Slash and the others were gone, Axl was replacing them all and going on recording as GNR, and they were taking forever to make the album. When the album hit, people were interested. Sure, Axl could've done more on his end to promote the record, but I feel if people really dug the nu music, we would've had a Van Hagar thing, and that would've been enough. I highly doubt music videos would've made that significant of a difference.

Most fans just didn't take to the music...

The album wasn't "everywhere" when it was released in the US. Best Buy ran one or two commercials and put it in their ad the week it was released, that was it.

The media sure talked about it at the time. Entertainment television and late night talk shows acknowledged it. I remember a thread where a user posted a whole ton of articles talking about how the album was finally getting released.

Right, it did receive fantastic reviews and some televised media acknowledged it but that's a far cry from the type of promotion bands like Coldplay receive.

[amacfantasy]

If Coldplay's singer replaced everyone in the band, stayed out of the spotlight for years, developed a terrible media reputation, released 1 album with new band, while still calling themselves Coldplay, and have gone thru the many other problems GNR has, he'd probably have a tough time getting people to want to hear his new music too.

BTW, Coldplay sucks.

this guy nailed it on the head, btw everyone NuGnR is still a far bigger band than coldplay on a world wide basis especially when u consider everything this guy said and more

Edited November 29, 2011 by amacfantasy

[GnRDuff1]

The second poster hit the nail on the head. In short, if it were the original lineup... hell, if Slash was the only other original member on stage with Axl, GNR would sell out stadiums anywhere in the world, whenever they wanted to.

End of story. There is no need to dig up any other reason or excuse. An attempt to do so is desperate and futile.

The thing is I think it's bullshit that people care though. On every other continent, they come in droves to see them. This is the only place where people won't even give them a chance.

[Apollo]

The album still sold between 4-5 million copies, inspire of the limited best buy deal.

[Axl4Prez2004]

zepspun, you made some good points...but what I think you're missing is the statement that the "music industry insiders" are letting their spite destroy their ability to view the new band objectively.

That's the issue I have with new lineup haters. At least stay objective. Who gives a fuck what their name is? Judge them on their product.

I think just about every person on this board has heard and or seen every GNR lineup there ever was...the haters are missing out on one fucking unbelievably talented band. All the credit in the world to the musicians who helped craft AFD and the UYIs. But, I hate to break it to them, they just didn't perform as well as the current incarnation. They just didn't. Sure, drugs probably played a big part of that, but it was what it was.

btw, there aren't enough characters allowed on these pages to explain fully why GNR is "different."

[wasted]

The mainstream isn't metal. it's still a big market. most metal fans love their outsider status.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Come to think of it, I can't name a single member of Coldplay other than Chris Martin. I just assumed everyone stopped playing instruments and its just Chris and a team of musicians performing.

Because right now I can't refer to Coldplay as a band, I will say that Chris Martin based his success on the best songs of Oasis. By writing mostly slow soft ballads, anyone would be into Coldplay. My god they have to be one of the most boring life bands on earth. Now he's trying so hard to be indie. Indie is mainstream now, which hipsters might find it either bad or ironic.

For an album with little or no promotion, Chinese Democracy was a success. Apparently its taboo to be a GN'R fan let alone a fan of the new band. Unlike Chris the other band members of the 2002 and present lineup are worthy of name.

Isn't Coldplay basically Chris and Brian Eno?

I never thought I see these two bands in same sentence.

Edited November 29, 2011 by BirdCatcher

[Matt13]

The second poster hit the nail on the head. In short, if it were the original lineup... hell, if Slash was the only other original member on stage with Axl, GNR would sell out stadiums anywhere in the world, whenever they wanted to.

End of story. There is no need to dig up any other reason or excuse. An attempt to do so is desperate and futile.

The thing is I think it's bullshit that people care though. On every other continent, they come in droves to see them. This is the only place where people won't even give them a chance.

Not really. The really large crowds are the result of festivals. The people aren't there to just see GNR, if they're their at all to see GNR. When and if they do sell out a stadium, it's nothing like the stadiums in every major city in the U.S. or in Europe. They're outdoor facilities that hold, in most cases, 35k or so. And if they do sell out stadiums in South America (for example), it's because they're only making one or two stops in select countries. If they only did one or two shows on the east coast of the U.S., they could probably sell out a stadium or two as the current band is concerned. The hardcores would travel to see them. I did an elaborate post about the subject back in 2006 at the conclusion of that tour. GNR grossed more in North America than the rest of the world, combined. They just do more shows, typically, when they tour the U.S. and Canada. I haven't looked hard at things this year, but it seems the North American tour is kinda light compared to '06-'07.

If it were the original lineup, or anything with Slash in it, they'd be selling out some stadiums in the big markets in North America and selling out any Arena they play. No doubt about it. But for a band that has little to no promotion and the cloud of it being 'Axl's GNR cover band' will only get modest turnouts in Arenas. From the pictures I've seen, looks like they're doing no worse than other shows I've been to. There's simply a ton of bands that tour the U.S., more than anywhere else in the world. $30-50 for a ticket is serious money to a lot of people, especially kids. So they're likely only going to go to one concert per year, if at all. And when 50 acts are coming through their city every year, you have to pick and choose what you really want to go to.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Matt13

[JimMorrison4]

I really can't figure out this no promotion thing. If anyone was unaware of Chinese Democracy, they were living in some kind of bubble. I saw the commercial for it probably 100 times or more. The commercial was uploaded to Youtube immediately. Best Buy had an entire display dedicated to it. Talk show hosts mentioned (and made fun of) the album. Myspace had a release "party." Merck talked it up for months. The band had multiple tours under the name "Chinese Democracy." Offspring threatened to call their next album Chinese Democracy. EVERYONE remembers the '02 VMAs (and still think Axl looks/sounds like that). Radio stations played Chinese Democracy and Better. It was reviewed by everyone who had a voice in music media.

How in the world did it lack promotion? I can't think of an album that was mentioned more, prior to its release, than Chinese Democracy. It didn't sell all that well because it wasn't the kind of music most fans of GNR wanted to hear. If it was, it would've sold like Black Ice or Death Magnetic or whatever Coldplay's last album was.

Edited November 29, 2011 by JimMorrison4

[Georgy Zhukov]

I really can't figure out this no promotion thing. If anyone was unaware of Chinese Democracy, they were living in some kind of bubble. I saw the commercial for it probably 100 times or more. The commercial was uploaded to Youtube immediately. Best Buy had an entire display dedicated to it. Talk show hosts mentioned (and made fun of) the album. Myspace had a release "party." Merck talked it up for months. The band had multiple tours under the name "Chinese Democracy." Offspring threatened to call their next album Chinese Democracy. EVERYONE remembers the '02 VMAs (and still think Axl looks/sounds like that). Radio stations played Chinese Democracy and Better. It was reviewed by everyone who had a voice in music media.

How in the world did it lack promotion? I can't think of an album that was mentioned more, prior to its release, than Chinese Democracy. It didn't sell all that well because it wasn't the kind of music most fans of GNR wanted to hear. If it was, it would've sold like Black Ice or Death Magnetic or whatever Coldplay's last album was.

If it was the same music as AFD then people would buy it. CD was filled with music that fans weren't ready for. Death Magnetic was an attempt to bring back fans Metallica lost over Load, ReLoad and St. Anger.

CD had 13 years of promotion. People stopped giving a shit. They would give a shit if Slash and Duff were back in the band. That may have been the music industry's idea. This whole thing has been a stand off between Axl Rose and the music industry. Axl will fight to the death which ultimately in the end he will win.

I do think if they spent more money promoting the album it would have boost its sales. Most people aren't even aware there's a tour unless they listen to certain radio stations, watch VH1 Classic, or is a hardcore fan.

Edited November 29, 2011 by BirdCatcher

[wasted]

I think they say Axl did no promo on the release apart from small billboard interview with Del and chats later.

[ITW 2012]

How in the world did it lack promotion?

Only Chinese Democracy (song) got heavy rotation on radio.

Edited November 29, 2011 by ITW 2012

[Georgy Zhukov]

How in the world did it lack promotion?

Only Chinese Democracy (song) got heavy rotation on radio.

Better and Street of Dreams should have gotten heavy radio play. Both too songs sound like oldschool GN'R with a modern flavor.

[ITW 2012]

How in the world did it lack promotion?

Only Chinese Democracy (song) got heavy rotation on radio.

Better and Street of Dreams should have gotten heavy radio play. Both too songs sound like oldschool GN'R with a modern flavor.

I always wonder about how the album would have done if Better was the first single. I'd have released singles in this order: Better, If The World (with Dre) and There Was A Time.

Edited November 29, 2011 by ITW 2012

[JimMorrison4]

Better sounds NOTHING like anything the original lineup would have made. I like the song, but it does not sound like Slash playing on guitar.

Chinese Democracy did indeed get heavy rotation. For a very limited time. People just weren't that interested. I, personally, really enjoy Chinese Democracy. As far as GNR albums, I'd probably put it 5th, though. (Appetite, UYI I, Lies, UYI II, Chinese Democracy, Spaghetti Incident, if anyone cares).

But, Axl himself said something along the lines of some people will like it and some people won't.

Since this thread is about Coldplay, I'll ask, has Coldplay released an album that they didn't think their fanbase would like?

[WhazUp]

Since this thread is about Coldplay, I'll ask, has Coldplay released an album that they didn't think their fanbase would like?

I am not a Coldplay fan by any means but a few of the people I know who like them aren't a fan of the direction of their new album. But I don't know shit about that because I have no interest in listening to it lol

[Georgy Zhukov]

Well I guess you have a point since Better has shredding that Slash couldn't do. It sounds like Axl had sex with Rihanna and had a baby and it sounded like Better. At least the intro. Then the baby got corrupted by Robin Fink and made friends with Buckethead.

[tomazrui]

Coldplay have been playing it safe for years. Pop music dressed up as indie art shit, and people lap it up.

[phaeryen]

Was listening to Coldplay's 'Paradise', I think it's a pretty good song. Nice melodies and piano work, just like Guns. Coldplay's newest album sold something like 447,000 units in it's first week and was number 1 on the US Billboard top 200. Now I have expressed that the lead single is a great song, but nothing to the likes of Better, TWAT, Prostitute etc. They also sell out most of their shows, and I would think Guns N' Roses would smoke the shit out of a Coldplay concert. So what is the difference? Lack of promotion? Lack of music videos? Not being 'safe' enough? Was it Coldplay's consistent and solid build up from their debut album and superseding records? Guns lack of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-etc?? What do you guys think?

I'm not knocking Guns at all either, I wish Chidem was the most openly respected album in the last decade as it deserves to be.

Coldplay is one of the current megabands and with good reason.

Coldplay is such a different beast compared to gnr that its quite hard to pair the two against each other. anyway, coldplay is still on their strong footing, a "current happening thing", while GNR sadly is mostly a thing of the past. GNR is also hard rock, most of the time, metal some of the time, Coldplay is an indierock flavour all the time. GNR might sound heavier, does that automatically mean they "smoke the shit out" of Coldplay? never in a million years.

Sure, GNR has some good songs that even an intelligent adult can listen to. Coldplay is always about trying to go after that type of song, so they got GNR completely beat in that game. Then on the other hand for example, coldplay has no high energy lowbrow smashing rock anthems, GNR does. you go see a hockey match, you hear bits of GNR music with 100% certainty, and with the same certainty you hear zero coldplay songs...

two completely different bands. GNR a late eighties early nineties enormously succesful for a short period of the time bloated rock n roll thing. Coldplay a 00's british sounding stadium-sized indierock outfit that has had lasting success for what, 10 years now?

just too different to really be compared.

[Georgy Zhukov]

There will be a time where Coldplay will be a thing of the past.