Set List

[jmapelian]

it would be near impossible to find 20 people that card about any incarnation of GN'R. It is 2012.

Do you realize that you just conceded to his point with that statement?

that pic of axl looks in your sig looks awful

[DeadSlash]

gnr has the greatest opening song any band could ever hope for. but they've been choosing to kick their sets off with a hugely unpopular single from their most unpopular album. i think it's ballsy as hell in a way. but also lame in another way. do you think kicking his shows off with a turdy song fans aren't really into is just his way of saying 'fuck you' to those same fans who would rather he play popular songs / reunite / lose weight / rehearse? it's like he's raising a middle finger to the world every time they launch into that song.

"it don't really matter!"

I'm glad I'm a slow enough typer that I am forced to think about what I am actually saying before I submit it. I think a lot of random instant thoughts get posted here.

Anyways, The hair stood up on the back of my neck when they opened with this, so no. Maybe it's a proper "Fuck you!" to the TWATs n cunts that wont let it the fuck go that there was an album after UYI, Slash is not in the fucking band anymore and their wont be a goddam motherfucking reunion. I stand beside Axl in this regard, and add a STFU in for good measure.

certainly axl knows everyone there would rather hear welcome to the jungle, or pretty much any song from the hall of fame line-up. also, the song chinese democracy was such a resounding flop, notwithstanding the monumental hype. it just seems to anti-climatic to kick things off with a song so few people really like. i can understand burying the less popular new stuff somewhere else in the set -- like, say, between the instrumental version of the pink panther and dizzy reed's nightly wank-a-thon. but to kick things off with such a turd? i get it as an act of defiance. and i get it as a selfish way to hear some applause while playing one of the less popular new songs. i just think it's kind of a shame, considering how much better and more beloved and appropriate jungle is to start things off.

i thought we were finally done with the chinese democracy tour anyways. maybe it's time to finally let some of these unpopular songs die their well-earned death.

News flash: You don't like the fucking band anymore. Move on and stop bitching about a band you don't even like. Do you understand how sad your post is? "Wahhh Why can't it be 1987?!? Wahhh." Does this shit happen on like Beatles web sites? "Paul should open with I wanna hold your hand because that's the song I like and the world revolves around me. Wahhh I pooped myself a little how has no one attended to my need yet?!"

I gotta say the people in Philly seemed pretty fucking happy with the opening. I guess they were nobody, because "everybody" wanted WTTJ instead. Your name fits. Ass hat.

You do know that swearing and insulting people doesn't make your opinion matter more, right? It just means you aren't intelligent to debate/discuss issues with those that you apparently disagree with.

You seem to be the one obsessed with the old band's success. The old band being the guys who created the songs the new band are making a living off of today.

Seriously, it is ok to have civil discussions with people who have a different opinion than you do. And not every negative comment means somebody prefers Slash over Axl, or that they are stuck in the 80s. And insulting people says more about you than it does about those you are insulting.

As for the topic. I've seen polls where Jungle was listed as the greatest rock concert opener of all time. It is a rock n roll classic. It is played in almost every major college and pro sporting event.

Chinese democracy? It was a failed single. And a song that rarely gets listed as one of the best off of CD.

If you polled everybody who has attended a GnR show the past decade and asked whether they would rather hear Jungle or CD, which one do you think would win? It seriously wouldn't even be close.

So it is a relevant and interesting topic for a GnR forum. Why would Axl choose to open a show with a song that the majority of fans attended the show would disagree with?

1. How is supporting CD as an opener = me being obsessed with the 80's?

2. No, not every negative comment means someone is trapped in the 80's or prefers the old line-up. 100% correct. You know where I got confused into thinking he did was when he said "axl knows everyone there (sic) would rather hear welcome to the jungle, or pretty much any song from the hall of fame line-up" Silly me.

3. It's impossible to have an intelligent debate with someone who:

A. Has an agenda.

B. Has not made an intellegent point.

You CANNOT say that "everyone" hates CD or that "everyone" would rather WTTJ. It's just stupid. It's a pro original line-up cupcake with an agenda post. It's so old and sad already. Move on to antoher band. If you hate the CD album, and you hate the new line up then you don't like GnR anymore. Move on to another band or limit your posts to the forums dedicated to the old line-up. Don't cry when someone calls you out on your bullshit and amature level trolling. You used to like GnR, deal with it.

Edited June 19, 2012 by DeadSlash

[volcano62]

gnr has the greatest opening song any band could ever hope for. but they've been choosing to kick their sets off with a hugely unpopular single from their most unpopular album. i think it's ballsy as hell in a way. but also lame in another way. do you think kicking his shows off with a turdy song fans aren't really into is just his way of saying 'fuck you' to those same fans who would rather he play popular songs / reunite / lose weight / rehearse? it's like he's raising a middle finger to the world every time they launch into that song.

"it don't really matter!"

I'm glad I'm a slow enough typer that I am forced to think about what I am actually saying before I submit it. I think a lot of random instant thoughts get posted here.

Anyways, The hair stood up on the back of my neck when they opened with this, so no. Maybe it's a proper "Fuck you!" to the TWATs n cunts that wont let it the fuck go that there was an album after UYI, Slash is not in the fucking band anymore and their wont be a goddam motherfucking reunion. I stand beside Axl in this regard, and add a STFU in for good measure.

certainly axl knows everyone there would rather hear welcome to the jungle, or pretty much any song from the hall of fame line-up. also, the song chinese democracy was such a resounding flop, notwithstanding the monumental hype. it just seems to anti-climatic to kick things off with a song so few people really like. i can understand burying the less popular new stuff somewhere else in the set -- like, say, between the instrumental version of the pink panther and dizzy reed's nightly wank-a-thon. but to kick things off with such a turd? i get it as an act of defiance. and i get it as a selfish way to hear some applause while playing one of the less popular new songs. i just think it's kind of a shame, considering how much better and more beloved and appropriate jungle is to start things off.

i thought we were finally done with the chinese democracy tour anyways. maybe it's time to finally let some of these unpopular songs die their well-earned death.

News flash: You don't like the fucking band anymore. Move on and stop bitching about a band you don't even like. Do you understand how sad your post is? "Wahhh Why can't it be 1987?!? Wahhh." Does this shit happen on like Beatles web sites? "Paul should open with I wanna hold your hand because that's the song I like and the world revolves around me. Wahhh I pooped myself a little how has no one attended to my need yet?!"

I gotta say the people in Philly seemed pretty fucking happy with the opening. I guess they were nobody, because "everybody" wanted WTTJ instead. Your name fits. Ass hat.

You do know that swearing and insulting people doesn't make your opinion matter more, right? It just means you aren't intelligent to debate/discuss issues with those that you apparently disagree with.

You seem to be the one obsessed with the old band's success. The old band being the guys who created the songs the new band are making a living off of today.

Seriously, it is ok to have civil discussions with people who have a different opinion than you do. And not every negative comment means somebody prefers Slash over Axl, or that they are stuck in the 80s. And insulting people says more about you than it does about those you are insulting.

As for the topic. I've seen polls where Jungle was listed as the greatest rock concert opener of all time. It is a rock n roll classic. It is played in almost every major college and pro sporting event.

Chinese democracy? It was a failed single. And a song that rarely gets listed as one of the best off of CD.

If you polled everybody who has attended a GnR show the past decade and asked whether they would rather hear Jungle or CD, which one do you think would win? It seriously wouldn't even be close.

So it is a relevant and interesting topic for a GnR forum. Why would Axl choose to open a show with a song that the majority of fans attended the show would disagree with?

1. How is supporting CD as an opener = me being obsessed with the 80's?

2. No, not every negative comment means someone is trapped in the 80's or prefers the old line-up. 100% correct. You know where I got confused into thinking he did was when he said "axl knows everyone there (sic) would rather hear welcome to the jungle, or pretty much any song from the hall of fame line-up" Silly me.

3. It's impossible to have an intelligent debate with someone who:

A. Has an agenda.

B. Has not made an intellegent point.

You CANNOT say that "everyone" hates CD or that "everyone" would rather WTTJ. It's just stupid. It's a pro original line-up cupcake with an agenda post. It's so old and sad already. Move on to antoher band. If you hate the CD album, and you hate the new line up then you don't like GnR anymore. Move on to another band or limit your posts to the forums dedicated to the old line-up. Don't cry when someone calls you out on your bullshit and amature level trolling. You used to like GnR, deal with it.

We all ignore Groghan now...he's lost his mind.

[finck6]

what's changed in the setlist with nu-chinese democracy unreleased material?

[Apollo]

its a great opener, haters

NB4 Lolcano bashes you for posting your opinion as fact.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Groghan

[Apollo]

Somebody who calls himself "deadslash" is talking about people posting with bias or an agenda?

In the CD rating thread, I gave it an extremely high rating. I've said 100 times on this forum that I think it is a better album than either illusions. I've posted numerous times that the show I went to last year was lights out and one of the best shows I've ever attended.

I've posted numerous times that I listen to CD 4-5 times a week.

So the majority of your post is nonsense. You have me confused with somebody else.

Oh, but what I don't do is worship Axl. And I -along with the majority of sane people on here - think that worshippers like Lolcano and Rabia are a joke........so I guess in your "unbiased" opinion, that means I hate the band. Makes perfect sense, kid.

I would add "deal with it" to wrap this up, but I'm not 15 so I won't. Maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much as to what other people think about a rock band.

Some of us come here to chat about our favorite band. Some come here to insult those who have a different opinion and carry feuds from topic to topic. Your last post showed which category you are in.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Groghan

[finck6]

Somebody who calls himself "deadslash" is talking about people posting with bias or an agenda?

In the CD rating thread, I gave it an extremely high rating. I've said 100 times on this forum that I think it is a better album than either illusions. I've posted numerous times that the show I went to last year was lights out and one of the best shows I've ever attended.

I've posted numerous times that I listen to CD 4-5 times a week.

So the majority of your post is nonsense. You have me confused with somebody else.

Oh, but what I don't do is worship Axl. And I -along with the majority of sane people on here - think that worshippers like Lolcano and Rabia are a joke........so I guess in your "unbiased" opinion, that means I hate the band. Makes perfect sense, kid.

I would add "deal with it" to wrap this up, but I'm not 15 so I won't. Maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much as to what other people think about a rock band.

Some of us come here to chat about our favorite band. Some come here to insult those who have a different opinion and carry feuds from topic to topic. Your last post showed which category you are in.

i give chinese democracy the record a high rating 2. i give it a big rating cause of the EPIC solos from robin and bucket on the record

[Jordan Rose]

You choose to defend setlists and lack of new material as if the situation were as normal as e.g. the band having released the as yet unheard album in 2008 with promotion and the clear intention of touring it for 4 years. You use this argument that it's all perfectly appreciable because they've toured it for the same amount of time as Illusions, are playing the new album in new markets etc when even Axl himself stated he planned/hoped to have album 2 out as soon as 2009 (would make sense since half the new songs had already been toured a lot).

You're trying to combine multiple issues that really are separate things.

If you are not satisfied with the current setlist, that is fine with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

However, I do point out the holes in several common misconceptions. When someone complains that the setlist now is nearly identical to the setlist ten years ago, that is simply untrue, so I point out the various differences.

When somebody complains that the setlist now is nearly identical to the setlist three months ago, I simply point out that most bands play the same setlist during their touring cycle and then shake things up when they release their next album.

When somebody complains that the setlist is simply a "greatest hits" set, I point out how many new songs and deep cuts are played.

When people post things that are untrue, I point it out. That's it. Why that makes me an enemy to some, I will never understand.

Points taken. But when looking at the radically different setlists played across the years of the Illusion touring cycle, nevermind the last 10 years of the Chinese tour (my point still stands if you want to call it '09-now), wouldn't you personally like it if he didn't play Jungle, Brownstone, Easy,(Sorry) and always close with paradise? Some of the 1993 sets were outrageous: almost entirely deep album cuts and covers, often omitting Jungle or Nightrain entirely.

There must be reasons for the comparative conservatism in the last 10 years. Some have suggested Axl's mental emotional problems mean that he needs routine to feel comfortable. He himself has said (a decade ago) that the purpose of the Appetite-heavy set was to get the new band over.

Oh god, it's like groundhog day, innit? I'm as tired of repeating the same old shit a million times as anyone but I care too much not to complain. Imagine if Axl could cope with reality and work the way well-adjusted artists do. He could have the entire world at his feet.

[Jordan Rose]

Jordan Rose -

GNR chose, for whatever reason, to vary the setlist more night to night during the touring for Illusions than they are choosing to do during the touring for Chinese. It could be because the shows weren't as technically complicated from a production standpoint. The reason doesn't really matter. I will always find some nerd in Ohio complaining about a setlist in Moscow to be ridiculous.

Would I personally prefer to hear more Chinese and less Appetite? Yes. Would most of the audience? No. I've stated that many many times. Yet, some still try to paint me as a worshiper. Why? Because I point out inaccuracies?

"Imagine if Axl could cope with reality and work the way well-adjusted artists do."

I guess I just don't care enough to imagine some fantasy world where one of the hundreds of bands I like happens to play a setlist that is slightly more to my liking?

He is better than what he does now and he proved that on the Illusion tour. He's an artist with the talent level of the kind of people like Springsteen and Prince who rehearse and play tens and tens and tens of different songs each tour, hundreds even: not just a rock singer who doesn't have the imaginiation and talent to do more than just go out and play his hits note for note in the same order every night 25 years later. Bruce probably played more different songs in 3 hours and 40 minutes in Milan recently (at 63 without leaving the stage) than Axl has played in 10 years.

This all-time great voice's body of work consists of performing 1.5 albums live in his 20s plus another 2 albums live in his 30s plus one more in his 40s and 50s.

It's a staggering waste and it sucks.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Jordan Rose

[SoulMonster]

Jordan Rose -

GNR chose, for whatever reason, to vary the setlist more night to night during the touring for Illusions than they are choosing to do during the touring for Chinese. It could be because the shows weren't as technically complicated from a production standpoint. The reason doesn't really matter. I will always find some nerd in Ohio complaining about a setlist in Moscow to be ridiculous.

Would I personally prefer to hear more Chinese and less Appetite? Yes. Would most of the audience? No. I've stated that many many times. Yet, some still try to paint me as a worshiper. Why? Because I point out inaccuracies?

"Imagine if Axl could cope with reality and work the way well-adjusted artists do."

I guess I just don't care enough to imagine some fantasy world where one of the hundreds of bands I like happens to play a setlist that is slightly more to my liking?

He is better than what he does now and he proved that on the Illusion tour. He's an artist with the talent level of the kind of people like Springsteen and Prince who rehearse and play tens and tens and tens of different songs each tour, hundreds even: not just a rock singer who doesn't have the imaginiation and talent to do more than just go out and play his hits note for note in the same order every night 25 years later. Bruce probably played more different songs in 3 hours and 40 minutes in Milan recently (at 63 without leaving the stage) than Axl has played in 10 years.

This all-time great voice's body of work consists of performing 1.5 albums live in his 20s plus another 2 albums live in his 30s plus one more in his 40s and 50s.

It's a staggering waste and it sucks.

In 2012 he is exactly as good as he demonstrates at shows in 2012. In 2006 he was exactly as good as he demonstrated at shows in 2006. In 1992 he was exactly as good as he demonstrated at shows in 1992. I am sorry you believe he is better now than what all the current evidence says. Not only will you continue to be underwhelmed but you and your like-minded will continue to criticise Axl for not living up to your exaggerated and failed expectations.

[Jordan Rose]

Jordan Rose -

GNR chose, for whatever reason, to vary the setlist more night to night during the touring for Illusions than they are choosing to do during the touring for Chinese. It could be because the shows weren't as technically complicated from a production standpoint. The reason doesn't really matter. I will always find some nerd in Ohio complaining about a setlist in Moscow to be ridiculous.

Would I personally prefer to hear more Chinese and less Appetite? Yes. Would most of the audience? No. I've stated that many many times. Yet, some still try to paint me as a worshiper. Why? Because I point out inaccuracies?

"Imagine if Axl could cope with reality and work the way well-adjusted artists do."

I guess I just don't care enough to imagine some fantasy world where one of the hundreds of bands I like happens to play a setlist that is slightly more to my liking?

He is better than what he does now and he proved that on the Illusion tour. He's an artist with the talent level of the kind of people like Springsteen and Prince who rehearse and play tens and tens and tens of different songs each tour, hundreds even: not just a rock singer who doesn't have the imaginiation and talent to do more than just go out and play his hits note for note in the same order every night 25 years later. Bruce probably played more different songs in 3 hours and 40 minutes in Milan recently (at 63 without leaving the stage) than Axl has played in 10 years.

This all-time great voice's body of work consists of performing 1.5 albums live in his 20s plus another 2 albums live in his 30s plus one more in his 40s and 50s.

It's a staggering waste and it sucks.

In 2012 he is exactly as good as he demonstrates at shows in 2012. In 2006 he was exactly as good as he demonstrated at shows in 2006. In 1992 he was exactly as good as he demonstrated at shows in 1992. I am sorry you believe he is better now than what all the current evidence says. Not only will you continue to be underwhelmed but you and your like-minded will continue to criticise Axl for not living up to your exaggerated and failed expectations.

I didn't mean better in terms of singing. I meant he's a better artist in general. He's spent 10 years doing what your average rock band/singer does, performing a stagnant setlist and replicating album tracks authentically. Many if not the vast majority of artists in the rock and metal world do this. Part of the reason is most people in rock have a very limited knowledge of music in general and do it because it's what their influences did and they don't know or have the imagination to do any better. If you go into rock pubs and clubs and spend time with rock fans who dress and act like their idols you find the same can be said for them: they have a very simplistic view of music and the world in general. Live music for them is a band playing 100% faithful replicas of their best-known songs year after year with a few new ones thrown in for good measure.

Axl is not one of these simple-minded people: he's a real artist and a real musicologist. What I meant by the fact that he proved he was 'better' on the Illusion tour was that he played sets night to night that were varied in the way that showed his imagination and engagement the way e.g. Springsteen's does. He has talked of wanting to work with other artists like Reznor and Cobain on outside projects; to do solo albums, perhaps instrumental music; to work with Elton John again; to publish a book; to work with abused children. He is not some thick-as-pigshit rocker with nothing to say to or about the world like an Osbourne or a Hetfield or any of the scene frontmen today. He is a bonafide, true artist and visionary with so much potential and so much to give that has just been squandered. In going out and monkey-performing the same friggin opening and closing songs every single night for 10 years he really isn't living up to his potential. If you can't see that then scrape up your expectations from the gutter and get a clue if you have the brains and imagination.

You know what's really ironic about simple trollops like you getting offended by the very realistic, fair and legitimate expectations I and my like-minded have for Axl and our accompanying criticisms? Axl himself has fostered those expectations with his own comments and hopes. You talk as if Axl himself planned all along to be stuck in this rut and waste his life and talent for 20 years (or as Canter says Axl sees it, Slash having taken away 20 years of Axl's life). He ain't happy with all this shit either, he just feels he's stuck with it because of labels, management, lawsuits, erotic fiction novels etc.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Jordan Rose

[SoulMonster]

You know what's really ironic about simple trollops like you getting offended by the very realistic, fair and legitimate expectations I and my like-minded have for Axl and our accompanying criticisms?

Why do you think I am offended?

If your expectations falls through, were they then really "fair and legitimate" to begin with or are you just trying to rationalize having failed expectations?

Axl himself has fostered those expectations with his own comments and hopes.

Yes, it is Axl's fault that you now have failed expectations . He misled you. Heh.

You talk as if Axl himself planned all along to be stuck in this rut and waste his life and talent for 20 years (or as Canter says Axl sees it, Slash having taken away 20 years of Axl's life). He ain't happy with all this shit either, he just feels he's stuck with it because of labels, management, lawsuits, erotic fiction novels etc.

Where you see a guy who is not "living up to his potential" (by expecting him to be as he were in his 20s), I see an artist who is not in his prime anymore. And only fools would expect him to be. Just be realistic. What we have now is as good as it gets. And it is still pretty good.

Edited June 23, 2012 by SoulMonster

[finck6]

not everyone buys tickets 2 see a rock concert in general. some buy or don't buy tickets based on expectation of either more new stuff or new unreleased material played. with guns n roses, axl rose or guns n roses management should let the fans know in advance if this expectation will be met at a guns n roses concert

[The Sandman]

Why? No obligation to.

I don't ask management to give me a freakin' set list when I go to a gig. I go to SEE the band, and whatever THEY choose to play.

[finck6]

Why? No obligation to.

I don't ask management to give me a freakin' set list when I go to a gig. I go to SEE the band, and whatever THEY choose to play.

if axl isn't going to play unreleased chinese democracy material......i don't buy a ticket. because the slash songs axl plays i've heard a million times. meanwhile, dj ashba and bumblefoot don't do the robin finck chinese democracy songs justice live. it's time for change

[The Sandman]

Why? No obligation to.

I don't ask management to give me a freakin' set list when I go to a gig. I go to SEE the band, and whatever THEY choose to play.

if axl isn't going to play unreleased chinese democracy material......i don't buy a ticket. because the slash songs axl plays i've heard a million times. meanwhile, dj ashba and bumblefoot don't do the robin finck chinese democracy songs justice live. it's time for change

How do you know unless you go?

So bring back Finck basically?

[Tyler Drama]

Why? No obligation to.

I don't ask management to give me a freakin' set list when I go to a gig. I go to SEE the band, and whatever THEY choose to play.

if axl isn't going to play unreleased chinese democracy material......i don't buy a ticket. because the slash songs axl plays i've heard a million times. meanwhile, dj ashba and bumblefoot don't do the robin finck chinese democracy songs justice live. it's time for change

How do you know unless you go?

So bring back Finck basically?

I think he's on the "Stop being a cover band!" team.

[finck6]

Why? No obligation to.

I don't ask management to give me a freakin' set list when I go to a gig. I go to SEE the band, and whatever THEY choose to play.

if axl isn't going to play unreleased chinese democracy material......i don't buy a ticket. because the slash songs axl plays i've heard a million times. meanwhile, dj ashba and bumblefoot don't do the robin finck chinese democracy songs justice live. it's time for change

How do you know unless you go?

So bring back Finck basically?

axl and guns n roses management can let the public know in advance if unreleased material will be played and if new songs will dominate the setlist. it's ticket breaker

bring back finck for the chinese democracy songs. robin's played the slash songs 2 death live

bring back robin for his material. like TIL. SOD. TWAT. IRS. Better. all the robin songs dj ashba sucks playing at guns n roses concerts

i saw guns n roses in 2002. after a while i got tired of going 2 shows of the same old slash songs. but i still went then cause robin finck was the future. i thought was the future. i went in the hope of one day new material would extinguish slash

[The Sandman]

Bit bizarre if you think new music is going to kill Slash

[finck6]

sorry you've been disappointed. feel free to move on with your life at any point.

mistersaintlaurent-

you're not my father

sandman-

with a new band new music is supposed to kill slash

[The Sandman]

I don't think anyone should kill Slash

[finck6]

I don't think anyone should kill Slash

sandman-

obviously axl doesn't think so. axl still plays slash more than dj and ron thal

[The Sandman]

Because people want to hear it....

[finck6]

Because people want to hear it....

then the next guns n roses record should be slash. because they want 2 buy it in walmart and target stores

[Guest Broskirose]

There is a song that should be back on the master setlist....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XRGbN08xPk