Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) how is CD not new? Its from the latest album that they have been touring in support of for the past two years. They played it sparingly in 02 and 06 but not enough to consider it old. so you would rather have Jungle, an older song, open the show and call that a reshuffle? after they've opened with it for years? come on, really?Chinese has been getting played live for over 12 years now! They've named their long awaited album after it, used it as the first song on said album and used it as the title of pretty much every tour for the last ten years! They've also been flogging the dying nag as the opener since 2009 and still 99% of the audience couldn't give less of a fuck if their lives depended on it! What does that tell you really? Oh and by "good" new music I was referring to anything on CD that isn't the title track, Rhiad or Scraped. Edited June 12, 2012 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitmanhart408 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 how is CD not new? Its from the latest album that they have been touring in support of for the past two years. They played it sparingly in 02 and 06 but not enough to consider it old. so you would rather have Jungle, an older song, open the show and call that a reshuffle? after they've opened with it for years? come on, really?Chinese has been getting played live for over 12 years now! They've named their long awaited album after it, used it as the first song on said album and used it as the title of pretty much every tour for the last ten years! They've also been flogging the dying nag as the opener since 2009 and still 99% of the audience couldn't give less of a fuck if their lives depended on it! What does that tell you really? again, they have played it sparingly during the 02 and 06 tours so its still pretty new to the general public. As far as the title of the previous tour is concerned, those tours were not in support of the album and this tour is not called the Chinese tour, so what does that have to do with anything? how do you know the audience doesn't care about the song as the opener? Every show I've been to the crowd has gone nuts for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) how do you know the audience doesn't care about the song as the opener? Every show I've been to the crowd has gone nuts for it.Exhibit "A" All I can say is compare from about 01:15 onwards where you can see the crowd in the first vid to about 00:53 onwards in the second. Irrespective of your preference of song I think it's pretty much case closed as to what makes the best opener as far as the crowd are concerned. Edited June 12, 2012 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) again, they have played it sparingly during the 02 and 06 tours so its still pretty new to the general public. Really? I thought the album had been out since 2008? Maybe it's just that the "genius" of the song takes more than 3 and a half years to filter through to the majority of the fan base? Either that or they all thought it was gash and couldn't care less? Edited June 12, 2012 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Satanisk_Slakt Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No offence to anyone, but if you prefer CD as an opener to Jungle you're a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblecool Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No offence to anyone, but if you prefer CD as an opener to Jungle you're a moron.Thanks Mr "everything after 1996 sucks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No offence to anyone, but if you prefer CD as an opener to Jungle you're a moron.The only one you could possibly offend by calling people "morons" for having a particular musical preference, would be yourself. Fortunately I believe nature has provided you with that special type of mind where such self-insults cannot possible do any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Dazey - What exactly is your position? That you don't like the song Chinese? Good for you. Different people like different songs. If you don't like the songs GNR plays, stay home.What's the problem?It's not that I don't like the song as such (which I don't) it's that for some inconceivable reason it's been chosen to replace one of the most iconic of all Guns n' Roses songs when it's not even in the same league by a country mile!I prefer CD as an opener to Jungle. I have a genius level IQ and attended university when I was 11 years old.No offence but that couldn't possibly have been a good thing for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It's not that I don't like the song as such (which I don't) it's that for some inconceivable reason it's been chosen to replace one of the most iconic of all Guns n' Roses songs when it's not even in the same league by a country mile!'Welcome to the Jungle' is still in the setlist. Perhaps Guns N' Roses thought it would be a good way to signal some distance to old material by showcasing a song from the new era as the gig opener? I am not a huge fan of 'Chinese Democracy' myself, I would have preferred 'Welcome to the Jungle' as an opener, or if it must be a song off Chinese Democracy, 'Shackler's Revenge'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It's your opinion that Jungle is better than Chinese. It's my opinion that Jungle is a better song yes. It's an observation to anybody with two eyes that Jungle is a better opener, unless your definition of a good opener is one to calm to audience down or have a quick piss break before proper music starts?'Welcome to the Jungle' is still in the setlist. Perhaps Guns N' Roses thought it would be a good way to signal some distance to old material by showcasing a song from the new era as the gig opener? I am not a huge fan of 'Chinese Democracy' myself, I would have preferred 'Welcome to the Jungle' as an opener, or if it must be a song off Chinese Democracy, 'Shackler's Revenge'.I'm not arguing its inclusion in the setlist, I'm saying it doesn't have what it takes to be a good opener. Personally I'd love to hear Shackler's as an opener too cos it's got that raw power that CD so desperately lacks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lahey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Chinese Democracy (song) is a cancer; better off removed. It's only good as an opener if you are taking a piss when GNR finally takes the stage. Edited June 12, 2012 by Randy Lahey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm not arguing its inclusion in the setlist, I'm saying it doesn't have what it takes to be a good opener. Personally I'd love to hear Shackler's as an opener too cos it's got that raw power that CD so desperately lacks!I think I agree, but not having been to any shows sort of disqualifies me from having a strong opinion on what works best as an opener. That being said, I like the gesture of starting with a new era song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm not arguing its inclusion in the setlist, I'm saying it doesn't have what it takes to be a good opener. Personally I'd love to hear Shackler's as an opener too cos it's got that raw power that CD so desperately lacks!I think I agree, but not having been to any shows sort of disqualifies me from having a strong opinion on what works best as an opener. That being said, I like the gesture of starting with a new era song.I think that no matter which song you prefer you have to judge an opener on the way it gets the audience going to kick off the show. As much as I wouldn't complain about Shackler's opening I do think Jungle is still the best choice. I love CD (the album) but it's clearly been rejected by the majority of the fanbase so I would play something that gets the whole crowd on side from the start before following up with on of the newer songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think that no matter which song you prefer you have to judge an opener on the way it gets the audience going to kick off the show. As much as I wouldn't complain about Shackler's opening I do think Jungle is still the best choice. I love CD (the album) but it's clearly been rejected by the majority of the fanbase so I would play something that gets the whole crowd on side from the start before following up with on of the newer songs.That is the nice thing to do. I am more of an asshole and would probably play whatever I felt the audience ought to enjoy, regardless of facts, especially if I felt I had a mission to promote new music and sort of distance myself from old accomplishments. I wonder what Axl is thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trqster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 CD is kind of teaser...then WTTJ starts things really going. It's just fine as it is - don't mess with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Linguini Occurrence Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It's not just based on crowd reaction. The atmosphere the song creates is just a bonus. The intro to Jungle is one of the best. Such an exciting song. It has way more energy than CD. You are proving the point by saying its used by other parties and why wouldn't they? It's perfect for the job. Overall Jungle is a much better song. To me thats obvious. Shocked that even has to be stated.No doubt Jungle is a better song, I can't imagine anyone who would argue otherwise. But there is no solid evidence to support the argument that it's a better opener than Chinese Democracy when both songs are performed during the same concert. Both songs have a fantastic intro, and as someone else already pointed out Democracy obviously works better with the visuals.When a band first takes the stage and performs their first song, does it need more energy? The start of any concert is arguably the biggest adrenaline rush of the evening, you could perform any song first and it will create a huge burst of energy from the crowd.Personally, I like that a newer and less familiar song opens the shows. If I were a casual fan like the majority of the concertgoers, I wouldn't want to go to any concert knowing what song I am going to get first. The element of surprise, to me anyways, makes it more exciting than already knowing how a concert will begin. Many other musicians/bands realize this, and therefore have different openers for each of their shows. "Let's Go Crazy" is Prince's "Welcome To The Jungle", but he doesn't use it as his regular opening song. It's always better to start concerts with an element of surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 But there is no solid evidence to support the argument that it's a better opener than Chinese Democracy when both songs are performed during the same concert. Check out my post again and look at how the crowd react to each song. For Chinese they're pretty much standing still then for Jungle the whole place goes wild. That's evidence enough surely? All I can say is compare from about 01:15 onwards where you can see the crowd in the first vid to about 00:53 onwards in the second. Irrespective of your preference of song I think it's pretty much case closed as to what makes the best opener as far as the crowd are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabia Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No offence to anyone, but if you prefer CD as an opener to Jungle you're a moron.A surefire way to show moronic tendencies is to state your own opinion as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOUCOULDBEMINE. Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) CD should be the opener. If people don't know the song it's their problem.I enjoyed it.EDIT: I just really like the song, I'd place it in my top 10 favorite GNR songs. Edited June 12, 2012 by UcudBmine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 CD should be the opener. If people don't know the song it's their problem.I enjoyed it.EDIT: I just really like the song, I'd place it in my top 10 favorite GNR songs.I love CD even the stripped down version they used to play in 2001-2002.It's the best opener they ever had. The only way they can move it would be to have it open the encore...that would be epic as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rocket King Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 welcome to the jungle is the best song of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Linguini Occurrence Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Check out my post again and look at how the crowd react to each song. For Chinese they're pretty much standing still then for Jungle the whole place goes wild. That's evidence enough surely?I think we're going in a circle here. There's no doubt whatsoever that Jungle always receives a much better response from the crowd than Democracy, regardless of when it's played. That's not evidence that Jungle is a better opener, it's evidence that Jungle is a much more popular and well known song. Fans sing along because they know the lyrics word for word. How many fans know the lyrics of Democracy? Not very many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Diet Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't go to a show to see other people enjoy it. I go for me. Couldn't care if more people get excited for popular shit. Might as well say having Justin Beiber sing instead of Axl is a better idea because he's more popular.Absolute worst analogy ever there Blowski but keep it up! The only way that would hold any water would be if for some reason 99% of the audience were Beiber fans. If they go apeshit for a mediocre song like Jungle they might as well be.If they go apeshit for a mediocre song like Jungle they might as well be. This proves you aren't a GNR fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlslash Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I love Jungle, love it as an opener, and honestly I think it works best as #2. CD has more of a build, you get the pyro to kick it all off...amazing. I was so glad to be up front at the UCAP Philly show, 'cause it was clearly the only spot in the club where anyone knew the new stuff, so that wasn't a problem. The #2 slot still has somewhat of an opening feel - it's the first song switch of the night, so it still doesn't feel like mid-show, and the place still erupts. Love both tunes, but CD-Jungle as a 1-2 punch to open a show is fucking sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 CD has a better build, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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