Axl and Kurt: More alike than they were different

[volcano62]

TSI bombed because it was an album full of covers of 10-20 year old songs with zero commercial appeal.

Sometimes i wonder if this was purposely done

[RichardNixon]

The real reason why most of you hate on Nirvana is a simple one. It's jealousy. Nirvana changed MTV by knocking Guns and the other 80's bands out of pop culture. Between 1991 and 1994, American youth had totally changed. Everyone was playing a fender guitar, wearing chuck Taylors, baggy jeans etc. Guns N Roses were "yesterday's news". TSI bombed. MTV was now dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, RHCP,STP,NIN etc. Alternative music festivals were born. And ALL of this, every single bit of it, started with a little video called Smells Like Teen Spirit. I know, I remember it. When that video dropped, it was a sea change. I was into both bands and I remember getting shit for wearing GNR shirts in 1994. You were a loser and out of touch if you were still into them at that point.

So it's painfully obvious where this comes from. Kurt is considered a legend. His music is as hip amongst 20 year old rock kids of today as it was 20 year old rock kids in 1993. He is an icon, and has achieved Lennon like status. Axl? A laughing stock. A caricature of everything that is wrong with fame and fortune. A public disgrace. Kurt's music marks the beginning of a pop culture revolution. Axl's represents the end of a musical styling that started 20 years before he arrived and died at his hand.

I don't have a stake in the matter. I liked them both. But reading this non sense, it's so obvious, juvenile and comedic. Kurt is considered everything that Axl isn't. That pisses certain people off and they just can't take it. It drive them nuts with hatred and so they get behind their little PCs, and they type and type and type their non sense in an attempt to somehow change reality. In their mind, they're rewriting what is and projecting their insecurities by doing so.

Kurt won. Axl lost. Get over it and listen to some fucking music. This isn't life or death people.

It's hilarious to me that people still believe this crap. TSI bombed because it was an album full of covers of 10-20 year old songs with zero commercial appeal. GnR disintegrated because of internal strife, drug abuse, power struggles, etc, not because of Nirvana. The last tour of the old band was massively successful and ended in 1993 years after Nirvana came onto the scene.

I also find it amazing that people try to claim that Nirvana had some sort of positive impact on rock music. They had a big impact, but it was anything but positive. Grunge was popular for all of 5-6 years. Rock music was a fucking wasteland after the grunge and alternative era flamed out. It opened the door for hip hop to become the music of the youth in the United States, and it remains that way today. For 30+ years rock music was the voice of the youth in the US. Within 5 years after Nirvana debuted, rap music was the most popular genre amongst younger people, because it embodied the attitude of rebellion, recklessness, extravagance, etc that rock music used to. In the wake of the grunge/alternative movement was a bunch of shitty, generic post grunge, and a bunch of nu metal posers. Rock music quite honestly has never recovered; it's still shit today in a mainstream sense.

Sure, shitty bands like Poison and Warrant went away, but at what cost?

And by the way, the comment that Nirvana is more popular with the youth today is completely baseless and strictly your subjective opinion. It's highly debateable, given the continued success of AFD and Greatest Hits.

The reality is that Kurt Cobain's long lasting public image exists because he killed himself at the height of his fame/popularity. He was gone before he had the chance to begin that slow, inevitable decline that everyone faces at some point in their career. It's staggeringly simple, and yet amazing that people fail to realize this.

Well said and I agree on all points. As for teens and rock today--most teens who listen to rock, like bands like Bullet For My Valentine, Avenged Sevenfold, etc. And your average kid is probably more familiar with Slash (because he's so high profile) than either Kurt or Axl.

Btw, if you took a random group of kids, say 14-19 and asked them to name as many GN'R and Nirvana songs as they could, I bet they, on average, would be able to name 3-4 from either band.

The mid-90s are over, yet some folks here still think it's 1995 in terms of Nirvana and GN'R's cultural relevance.

[MEXzilla]

The real reason why most of you hate on Nirvana is a simple one. It's jealousy. Nirvana changed MTV by knocking Guns and the other 80's bands out of pop culture. Between 1991 and 1994, American youth had totally changed. Everyone was playing a fender guitar, wearing chuck Taylors, baggy jeans etc. Guns N Roses were "yesterday's news". TSI bombed. MTV was now dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, RHCP,STP,NIN etc. Alternative music festivals were born. And ALL of this, every single bit of it, started with a little video called Smells Like Teen Spirit. I know, I remember it. When that video dropped, it was a sea change. I was into both bands and I remember getting shit for wearing GNR shirts in 1994. You were a loser and out of touch if you were still into them at that point.

So it's painfully obvious where this comes from. Kurt is considered a legend. His music is as hip amongst 20 year old rock kids of today as it was 20 year old rock kids in 1993. He is an icon, and has achieved Lennon like status. Axl? A laughing stock. A caricature of everything that is wrong with fame and fortune. A public disgrace. Kurt's music marks the beginning of a pop culture revolution. Axl's represents the end of a musical styling that started 20 years before he arrived and died at his hand.

I don't have a stake in the matter. I liked them both. But reading this non sense, it's so obvious, juvenile and comedic. Kurt is considered everything that Axl isn't. That pisses certain people off and they just can't take it. It drive them nuts with hatred and so they get behind their little PCs, and they type and type and type their non sense in an attempt to somehow change reality. In their mind, they're rewriting what is and projecting their insecurities by doing so.

Kurt won. Axl lost. Get over it and listen to some fucking music. This isn't life or death people.

It's hilarious to me that people still believe this crap. TSI bombed because it was an album full of covers of 10-20 year old songs with zero commercial appeal. GnR disintegrated because of internal strife, drug abuse, power struggles, etc, not because of Nirvana. The last tour of the old band was massively successful and ended in 1993 years after Nirvana came onto the scene.

I also find it amazing that people try to claim that Nirvana had some sort of positive impact on rock music. They had a big impact, but it was anything but positive. Grunge was popular for all of 5-6 years. Rock music was a fucking wasteland after the grunge and alternative era flamed out. It opened the door for hip hop to become the music of the youth in the United States, and it remains that way today. For 30+ years rock music was the voice of the youth in the US. Within 5 years after Nirvana debuted, rap music was the most popular genre amongst younger people, because it embodied the attitude of rebellion, recklessness, extravagance, etc that rock music used to. In the wake of the grunge/alternative movement was a bunch of shitty, generic post grunge, and a bunch of nu metal posers. Rock music quite honestly has never recovered; it's still shit today in a mainstream sense.

Sure, shitty bands like Poison and Warrant went away, but at what cost?

And by the way, the comment that Nirvana is more popular with the youth today is completely baseless and strictly your subjective opinion. It's highly debateable, given the continued success of AFD and Greatest Hits.

The reality is that Kurt Cobain's long lasting public image exists because he killed himself at the height of his fame/popularity. He was gone before he had the chance to begin that slow, inevitable decline that everyone faces at some point in their career. It's staggeringly simple, and yet amazing that people fail to realize this.

Well said and I agree on all points. As for teens and rock today--most teens who listen to rock, like bands like Bullet For My Valentine, Avenged Sevenfold, etc. And your average kid is probably more familiar with Slash (because he's so high profile) than either Kurt or Axl.

Btw, if you took a random group of kids, say 14-19 and asked them to name as many GN'R and Nirvana songs as they could, I bet they, on average, would be able to name 3-4 from either band.

The mid-90s are over, yet some folks here still think it's 1995 in terms of Nirvana and GN'R's cultural relevance.

LMAO thats true

[The_Universal_Sigh]

The reality is cock rock, or rock in general, would not have lasted forever at the top anyway. What has ever lasted forever? Anything? Especially fucking music! If it wasn't for Grunge, then alternative as a whole, rap would have just taken over that much sooner.

Also Kurt didn't spit in the face of everything popular at the time. It may have been calculated against Axl... to an extent (not saying I believe that) but he liked Metallica.

"GW: Kirk Hammett is a huge Nirvana fan.

Kurt: That's real flattering. We met him recently and he's a real nice guy. We talked about the Sub Pop scene, heavy metal and guitars. "

[Chewbacca]

Nice post, Miser.

[dalsh327]

The real reason why most of you hate on Nirvana is a simple one. It's jealousy. Nirvana changed MTV by knocking Guns and the other 80's bands out of pop culture. Between 1991 and 1994, American youth had totally changed. Everyone was playing a fender guitar, wearing chuck Taylors, baggy jeans etc. Guns N Roses were "yesterday's news". TSI bombed. MTV was now dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, RHCP,STP,NIN etc. Alternative music festivals were born. And ALL of this, every single bit of it, started with a little video called Smells Like Teen Spirit. I know, I remember it. When that video dropped, it was a sea change. I was into both bands and I remember getting shit for wearing GNR shirts in 1994. You were a loser and out of touch if you were still into them at that point.

So it's painfully obvious where this comes from. Kurt is considered a legend. His music is as hip amongst 20 year old rock kids of today as it was 20 year old rock kids in 1993. He is an icon, and has achieved Lennon like status. Axl? A laughing stock. A caricature of everything that is wrong with fame and fortune. A public disgrace. Kurt's music marks the beginning of a pop culture revolution. Axl's represents the end of a musical styling that started 20 years before he arrived and died at his hand.

I don't have a stake in the matter. I liked them both. But reading this non sense, it's so obvious, juvenile and comedic. Kurt is considered everything that Axl isn't. That pisses certain people off and they just can't take it. It drive them nuts with hatred and so they get behind their little PCs, and they type and type and type their non sense in an attempt to somehow change reality. In their mind, they're rewriting what is and projecting their insecurities by doing so.

Kurt won. Axl lost. Get over it and listen to some fucking music. This isn't life or death people.

Sure Nintari there’s an element of jealousy, but there’s also a bit of confusion and anger – all of which I feel is justified. What Nirvana “represented” was IRONICALLY (to use the catch word of that era) the product of corporate America every bit as much as anything GNR did, yet because of Nirvana’s “image” they got a pass. They hit it big once they got on Geffen records (GNR’s label) and signed with a legit producer.

Nirvana was great and all, and yes there was a sea change, but they are the embodiment of the double standards of liberalism. Its rock acting like its not rock and consequently destroys rock. Isnt that precisely what happened? Yea Nirvana resonates with teenagers probably more than GNR but it’s because they appeal to a lower standard; they appeal to brattiness, entitlement, sarcasm, never working a job, being a dumb smart ass, etc.

They’re “for the little guy” yet they’re the posterboys of college culture, they’d probably shit themselves if they had to spend a night in the woods or would probably undergo their own psychological “sea change” if they had to farm and survive independent of the very corporate entities they supposedly abhor. I could go on and on. It’s no surprise that Nirvana generated more shitty wannabes than GNR ever did. Just because you appeal to young people more than another band, or hell, sell more records than another band, doesn’t mean shit. In fact, it may be an indictment.

The other frustrating issue regards MTV. The sea change of Nirvana was an early indicator for me that MTV wasn’t dedicated to anybody or any music, hell even music itself. They were just looking for the next high after the 80s cock rock scene. Enter Nirvana. They chewed them up and spit them out. Years later, they didn’t hardly even mention Shannon Hoon’s death or Layne Staley’s death even though they whored these guys around for years and made millions off them. Then, to be sure, they stopped playing MUSIC ALTOGETHER. THIS IS THE MACHINE OF LIBERALISM AT WORK. Today, former VeeJays work for liberal political interests like msnbc – which is government owned – and MTV’s shows are parasitic upon teenage pregnancy, violence, and racial stereotypes. There’s a straight line from Nirvana to Lady Gaga, and yes that is frustrating, Nintari.

MTV has become a brand and a lifestyle channel.

I

[dalsh327]

The real reason why most of you hate on Nirvana is a simple one. It's jealousy. Nirvana changed MTV by knocking Guns and the other 80's bands out of pop culture. Between 1991 and 1994, American youth had totally changed. Everyone was playing a fender guitar, wearing chuck Taylors, baggy jeans etc. Guns N Roses were "yesterday's news". TSI bombed. MTV was now dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, RHCP,STP,NIN etc. Alternative music festivals were born. And ALL of this, every single bit of it, started with a little video called Smells Like Teen Spirit. I know, I remember it. When that video dropped, it was a sea change. I was into both bands and I remember getting shit for wearing GNR shirts in 1994. You were a loser and out of touch if you were still into them at that point.

So it's painfully obvious where this comes from. Kurt is considered a legend. His music is as hip amongst 20 year old rock kids of today as it was 20 year old rock kids in 1993. He is an icon, and has achieved Lennon like status. Axl? A laughing stock. A caricature of everything that is wrong with fame and fortune. A public disgrace. Kurt's music marks the beginning of a pop culture revolution. Axl's represents the end of a musical styling that started 20 years before he arrived and died at his hand.

I don't have a stake in the matter. I liked them both. But reading this non sense, it's so obvious, juvenile and comedic. Kurt is considered everything that Axl isn't. That pisses certain people off and they just can't take it. It drive them nuts with hatred and so they get behind their little PCs, and they type and type and type their non sense in an attempt to somehow change reality. In their mind, they're rewriting what is and projecting their insecurities by doing so.

Kurt won. Axl lost. Get over it and listen to some fucking music. This isn't life or death people.

It's hilarious to me that people still believe this crap. TSI bombed because it was an album full of covers of 10-20 year old songs with zero commercial appeal. GnR disintegrated because of internal strife, drug abuse, power struggles, etc, not because of Nirvana. The last tour of the old band was massively successful and ended in 1993 years after Nirvana came onto the scene.

I also find it amazing that people try to claim that Nirvana had some sort of positive impact on rock music. They had a big impact, but it was anything but positive. Grunge was popular for all of 5-6 years. Rock music was a fucking wasteland after the grunge and alternative era flamed out. It opened the door for hip hop to become the music of the youth in the United States, and it remains that way today. For 30+ years rock music was the voice of the youth in the US. Within 5 years after Nirvana debuted, rap music was the most popular genre amongst younger people, because it embodied the attitude of rebellion, recklessness, extravagance, etc that rock music used to. In the wake of the grunge/alternative movement was a bunch of shitty, generic post grunge, and a bunch of nu metal posers. Rock music quite honestly has never recovered; it's still shit today in a mainstream sense.

Sure, shitty bands like Poison and Warrant went away, but at what cost?

And by the way, the comment that Nirvana is more popular with the youth today is completely baseless and strictly your subjective opinion. It's highly debateable, given the continued success of AFD and Greatest Hits.

The reality is that Kurt Cobain's long lasting public image exists because he killed himself at the height of his fame/popularity. He was gone before he had the chance to begin that slow, inevitable decline that everyone faces at some point in their career. It's staggeringly simple, and yet amazing that people fail to realize this.

Well said and I agree on all points. As for teens and rock today--most teens who listen to rock, like bands like Bullet For My Valentine, Avenged Sevenfold, etc. And your average kid is probably more familiar with Slash (because he's so high profile) than either Kurt or Axl.

Btw, if you took a random group of kids, say 14-19 and asked them to name as many GN'R and Nirvana songs as they could, I bet they, on average, would be able to name 3-4 from either band.

The mid-90s are over, yet some folks here still think it's 1995 in terms of Nirvana and GN'R's cultural relevance.

I think with the Rock Hall, the discussions about GNR's cultural relevance were bound to come up this year.

Slash and Dave Navarro are kind of the "go to" guy when they want someone who looks like a rock star. Like I've said before, Dave did the ultimate whore move by showing up in a Mariah Carey video, to a Def Leppard cover, that he never played on. He was just there for the look of a rock star. That's whoring out. Or Michael calling on Slash to appear at the MSG show, to do an amateurish version of "Beat It". But he had history with Michael on a few songs, and I'm sure Slash with Michael didn't hurt GNR, if anything, it might have brought a few Jackson fans over into the GNR world. But it sure didn't help Slash having Fergie on his CD - that song didn't really make much of a dent.

I don't think one is bigger than the other as far as legacy goes. All their songs are being played on the radio somewhere, some kid in the world who got their first guitar is figuring both bands' songs out.

[volcano62]

Or Michael calling on Slash to appear at the MSG show, to do an amateurish version of "Beat It".

One of the most embarrassing moments in Slash history

Superbowl is #1

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

The reality is cock rock, or rock in general, would not have lasted forever at the top anyway. What has ever lasted forever? Anything? Especially fucking music! If it wasn't for Grunge, then alternative as a whole, rap would have just taken over that much sooner.

Also Kurt didn't spit in the face of everything popular at the time. It may have been calculated against Axl... to an extent (not saying I believe that) but he liked Metallica.

"GW: Kirk Hammett is a huge Nirvana fan.

Kurt: That's real flattering. We met him recently and he's a real nice guy. We talked about the Sub Pop scene, heavy metal and guitars. "

What!?!?! No outrage at Metallica's "Last Caress" cover (which was a set-list staple at the time as I recall):

I got something to say, I killed your baby today and it

Doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's dead

I got something to say, I raped your mother today and it

Doesn't matter much to me, as long as she's spread

Guns fans need not get soooo wrapped up in Kurt. Great musician and legend in his own right- but he was also a Double Talkin' Jive Motherfucker at times (see above) who was increasingly unstable, chemically dependent and suicidally depressed. He did have it out for Axl/Guns publicly for whatever reason and definitely landed some damaging blows at the time- but he didn't "kill" the band or its legacy. In truth we all know "Old Guns" was already well on its "death bed" (in actuality at least) when Izzy began losing interest in the Illusions recordings. The legacy meanwhile remains alive and well (First ballot HOF'ers, 5x Platinum Greatest Hits album, AFD still selling strong, well-received shows, constant intense interest in a reunion, media covergage to this day over Axl and Slash's comings and goings, etc.). Kurt/Nirvana was a rival- and a worthy one at that one might say- but we shouldn't overly assign credit/blame here IMHO...

[The Archer]

Or Michael calling on Slash to appear at the MSG show, to do an amateurish version of "Beat It".

One of the most embarrassing moments in Slash history

Superbowl is #1

I don't thing anything beats playing November Rain with the rappers.

Back on topic, no way was Kurt as good a singer as Axl....

Edit: was*, not is, since the guy is dead.

Edited June 19, 2012 by The Archer

[GnR Chris]

The real reason why most of you hate on Nirvana is a simple one. It's jealousy. Nirvana changed MTV by knocking Guns and the other 80's bands out of pop culture. Between 1991 and 1994, American youth had totally changed. Everyone was playing a fender guitar, wearing chuck Taylors, baggy jeans etc. Guns N Roses were "yesterday's news". TSI bombed. MTV was now dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, RHCP,STP,NIN etc. Alternative music festivals were born. And ALL of this, every single bit of it, started with a little video called Smells Like Teen Spirit. I know, I remember it. When that video dropped, it was a sea change. I was into both bands and I remember getting shit for wearing GNR shirts in 1994. You were a loser and out of touch if you were still into them at that point.

So it's painfully obvious where this comes from. Kurt is considered a legend. His music is as hip amongst 20 year old rock kids of today as it was 20 year old rock kids in 1993. He is an icon, and has achieved Lennon like status. Axl? A laughing stock. A caricature of everything that is wrong with fame and fortune. A public disgrace. Kurt's music marks the beginning of a pop culture revolution. Axl's represents the end of a musical styling that started 20 years before he arrived and died at his hand.

I don't have a stake in the matter. I liked them both. But reading this non sense, it's so obvious, juvenile and comedic. Kurt is considered everything that Axl isn't. That pisses certain people off and they just can't take it. It drive them nuts with hatred and so they get behind their little PCs, and they type and type and type their non sense in an attempt to somehow change reality. In their mind, they're rewriting what is and projecting their insecurities by doing so.

Kurt won. Axl lost. Get over it and listen to some fucking music. This isn't life or death people.

Oh please.

Axl Rose is still very much an icon. It's just that Kurt died at a young age and will always be 27. AFD is about as relevant and cool with youth culture today as Nevermind is. Your average 16 year-old is as familiar with WTTJ as they are with SLTS. For kids today, both Nirvana and GN'R are classic rock and any kind of rivalry is long sense forgotten. The only people hanging on to this 20 year-old feud are dorks on a message board.

TSI? did not bomb, btw. It was a covers album for fuck's sake. A proper follow-up to the UYI album released in the mid-90s would have sold a few million copies. GN'R would be in the same place that Van Halen was during the Balance album, sort of like in their own bubble.

I like Nirvana and most 90s rock and don't have any insecurities with other people liking that music. What's irritating is people who create posts like this, posts that say nothing original, but just spout cliches and conventional wisdom about Nirvana/GN'R. As Kurt would say about Axl, it's just really boring.

Btw, no one gives a shit about Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, NIN, etc. in 2012 apart from their core fan-base. Does that mean that they also "lost?"

Excellent post. I really have nothing against Nirvana- and much of what Nintari wrote may be true- as it relates to say 1994-1998. However, by the time SPIN ran their "What The World Needs Now Is Axl Rose" feature story in 1999 and Rolling Stone started running their own feature stories on Axl Rose and Chinese Democracy in 2000- it was obvious that this idea that Nirvana had "erased" Guns N' Roses from history like a C- Sunset Strip cover band was complete and utter BULLSHIT.

Both great bands. Kurt, Axl and Slash are ALL legends and icons of rock (and sadly examples of "lost" years and wasted potential in their own way). Does Kurt's star burn brighter? Perhaps- but that's what happens when you cash in your chips at the peak of your powers. Whatever the case- the 94-98 "narrative" (i.e. Nirvana "destroyed" and "erased" GN'R) is an interesting fossil from the past- but nothing more these days.

Great point about the Spin and Rolling Stone articles. Say what you will about Nirvana or Gn'R, but when it comes to rock and roll frontmen, Axl is probably the last great r&r frontman. You can even point to Slash and say he's the last of the "guitar Gods."

I will quote Kim Fowley here: "Guns N’ Roses were the last rock and roll band of the 20th century that meant anything. They were the last one. I don’t consider Nirvana a rock and roll band. Guns N’ Roses is the last great rock and roll band ever. No one can take their place. When will there be a new Guns N’ Roses? Don’t hold your breath. It’s like Elvis."

Edited June 19, 2012 by GnR Chris

[Snowmass]

Lets look back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm5f2rVsSvo

[Rustycage]

^Is more obsessed with talking about Kurt than even the board's Nirvana fans.

[nambis]

this is a pointless argument and the thread should be locked.

[Snowmass]

^Is more obsessed with talking about Kurt than even the board's Nirvana fans.

Just having a laugh. "Cobain had a reported drug induced coma a month before". What a fucked up dude he was.

[arnold layne]

^Is more obsessed with talking about Kurt than even the board's Nirvana fans.

Just having a laugh. "Cobain had a reported drug induced coma a month before". What a fucked up dude he was.

Kurt Cobain was awesome.

[The Archer]

this is a pointless argument and the thread should be locked.

Noooooooooo!!!! This is what we should be arguing about, not about Axl vs Slash. This argument unites many Gunners separated by the usual divide.

[Rustycage]

this is a pointless argument and the thread should be locked.

Noooooooooo!!!! This is what we should be arguing about, not about Axl vs Slash. This argument unites many Gunners separated by the usual divide.

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic. But I guess the only things labeled to be in the wrong topic are anything involving someone you dislike from GNR

[The Archer]

this is a pointless argument and the thread should be locked.

Noooooooooo!!!! This is what we should be arguing about, not about Axl vs Slash. This argument unites many Gunners separated by the usual divide.

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic. But I guess the only things labeled to be in the wrong topic are anything involving someone you dislike from GNR

Yes, it should be move to Dust and Bones and I'd be OK with that. That said, I don't dislike anyone in Guns - or anyone who was in Guns

[volcano62]

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic.

Indeed

[Rustycage]

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic.

Indeed

And it's gone for so many pages. Are the new topics doing this well? That should tell you something. Those sections only kill discussions.

[The Sandman]

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic.

Indeed

And it's gone for so many pages. Are the new topics doing this well? That should tell you something. Those sections only kill discussions.

For good reason - we've had them that many times before.

[Rustycage]

It's in the wrong section. It's a dust n bones topic.

Indeed

And it's gone for so many pages. Are the new topics doing this well? That should tell you something. Those sections only kill discussions.

For good reason - we've had them that many times before.

Everything is a repeat.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

So because the majority like the discussions, but they've been discussed before, in your opinion sandman they should be moved because you read a similar topic a year and a half ago?

Got ya.

[Snowmass]

So because the majority like the discussions, but they've been discussed before, in your opinion sandman they should be moved because you read a similar topic a year and a half ago?

Got ya.

Yeah- like each nights set list.