Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare!

[Georgy Zhukov]

Saw one of the protesters saying in anger "We will get rid of Obama and anyone else who voted for this..." crazy, crazy people. I suppose the anger here stems from the general Conservative ideology that those who have money deserve to have that money and all the benefits that it brings and the people who can't afford those benefits don't deserve them... And then always bring up the fattest, laziest and most obnoxious scroungers as evidence. It's never that clear cut, and as long as you adhere to those principles financial/social mobility remains restricted to those who get more and more of a headstart with every passing generation. Of course there's the "freedom" argument that it's always possible to work yourself out of poverty but when you weigh up that argument on a global scale it's just not true... many of the world's poorest work an unbelievable amount just to keep their heads above water, if luck and circumstances don't favour them.

I don't think a welfare state should be about eliminating the need for work, but should be a very effective agent at eliminating the need for luck in life.

I'm glad I come from a society that's proud of its welfare state and is willing to accept the fat, lazy, scrounging cases as collateral for providing help to those members of our community who need it most, accepting we have a duty to our community as well as to ourselves and our families. The "it's better to let 100 guilty men go free than convict one innocent" ethos applied in a slightly different light.

At the end of the day, it's a small sacrifice on the part of those who can afford it to hep prevent someone else at a greater disadvantage being horribly crippled by something avoidable. I can't find anything wrong with that whatsoever.

You hit a bullseye there. I don't understand then hypocrisy of many Americans. People claim to be patriotic by planting an American flag and posting god bless our troops on Facebook. They would give to their community but would bitch about their taxes being taken out to help others. It is our duty to provide for each other.

[bran]

Health Care in Canada used to be completely without premiums,but in the last few years you have to pay a few bucks at tax time depending on your income level.The more you earn the more the tax bracket changes.

Seems fair to me,and gets me the health care I need without paying for every visit to the doctor.

the thing is though in the US we have had free medical healthcare for the poor and people who cant afford health care in medicaid and medicare but they are flat broke and we cant sustain, in the US current law any business with over 50 employees will be fined per worker that isnt insured, buisnesses are not going to be able to handle the strain and then all the workers will be dumped onto the govt healthcare which as we have seen when govt runs something it turns to shit

My last employer didn't offer any insurance benefits and I know they have more than 50 employees.

i meant the current obama healthcare law, it doesnt start until 2014.

[WillieC]

Americans are against health care for all because we know Americans. We're fat and take take pride in our unhealthy lifestyle and now it is legally required that our tax dollars subsidize it. I am healthy, and can afford to pay for health care and choose not to, I can also afford treatment for anything I should happen to do to myself. I am now going to be fined because I am in good enough shape to not need health care. Fuck Obama, fuck fat, decrepit, diabetes people with one foot eating at McDonald's everyday, fuck the Supreme Court, and apparently, fuck the Constitution.

Exactly. You should start your own 1-person insurance company with 1 policy to cover 1-customer (yourself) where the money just goes in a circle. This law deserves to be fucked over with loopholes.

[classicrawker]

The bill is far from perfect but you have to start somewhere to effect change and Romney is a hypocrite because it is similar to what he got passed here in Massachusetts..........

In the long run it will benefit those without health care and those who can barely aford other types of insurance...nobody should be without health care in a civilized country

Americans are against health care for all because we know Americans. We're fat and take take pride in our unhealthy lifestyle and now it is legally required that our tax dollars subsidize it. I am healthy, and can afford to pay for health care and choose not to, I can also afford treatment for anything I should happen to do to myself. I am now going to be fined because I am in good enough shape to not need health care. Fuck Obama, fuck fat, decrepit, diabetes people with one foot eating at McDonald's everyday, fuck the Supreme Court, and apparently, fuck the Constitution.

Exactly. You should start your own 1-person insurance company with 1 policy to cover 1-customer (yourself) where the money just goes in a circle. This law deserves to be fucked over with loopholes.

Yeah that is very Republican of you both...fuck the less fortunate as you have yours.........the need of the many out weigh the need of the few............ or the one.............

[WillieC]

Absolutely. I don't think failure should be rewarded and don't think people should be forced against their will to care. It must be the statist in you that causes you to come to such a narrow conclusion. I don't think emergency rooms should be forced to help just because they can. Your utopia isn't the same as mine.

[Vincent Vega]

The bill is far from perfect but you have to start somewhere to effect change and Romney is a hypocrite because it is similar to what he got passed here in Massachusetts..........

In the long run it will benefit those without health care and those who can barely aford other types of insurance...nobody should be without health care in a civilized country

Americans are against health care for all because we know Americans. We're fat and take take pride in our unhealthy lifestyle and now it is legally required that our tax dollars subsidize it. I am healthy, and can afford to pay for health care and choose not to, I can also afford treatment for anything I should happen to do to myself. I am now going to be fined because I am in good enough shape to not need health care. Fuck Obama, fuck fat, decrepit, diabetes people with one foot eating at McDonald's everyday, fuck the Supreme Court, and apparently, fuck the Constitution.

Exactly. You should start your own 1-person insurance company with 1 policy to cover 1-customer (yourself) where the money just goes in a circle. This law deserves to be fucked over with loopholes.

Yeah that is very Republican of you both...fuck the less fortunate as you have yours.........the need of the many out weigh the need of the few............ or the one.............

Republicans are sociopaths. Empathy to them is a weakness.

[bran]

Saw one of the protesters saying in anger "We will get rid of Obama and anyone else who voted for this..." crazy, crazy people. I suppose the anger here stems from the general Conservative ideology that those who have money deserve to have that money and all the benefits that it brings and the people who can't afford those benefits don't deserve them... And then always bring up the fattest, laziest and most obnoxious scroungers as evidence. It's never that clear cut, and as long as you adhere to those principles financial/social mobility remains restricted to those who get more and more of a headstart with every passing generation. Of course there's the "freedom" argument that it's always possible to work yourself out of poverty but when you weigh up that argument on a global scale it's just not true... many of the world's poorest work an unbelievable amount just to keep their heads above water, if luck and circumstances don't favour them.

I don't think a welfare state should be about eliminating the need for work, but should be a very effective agent at eliminating the need for luck in life.

I'm glad I come from a society that's proud of its welfare state and is willing to accept the fat, lazy, scrounging cases as collateral for providing help to those members of our community who need it most, accepting we have a duty to our community as well as to ourselves and our families. The "it's better to let 100 guilty men go free than convict one innocent" ethos applied in a slightly different light.

At the end of the day, it's a small sacrifice on the part of those who can afford it to hep prevent someone else at a greater disadvantage being horribly crippled by something avoidable. I can't find anything wrong with that whatsoever.

You hit a bullseye there. I don't understand then hypocrisy of many Americans. People claim to be patriotic by planting an American flag and posting god bless our troops on Facebook. They would give to their community but would bitch about their taxes being taken out to help others. It is our duty to provide for each other.

most americans are very charitable people and are more than willing to help out people who need help. that is what medicaid and medicare were supposed to do, but what happend is the government has the habit of dipping their fingers into any available money they can they take the money from medicaid,medicare,social security etc and fund stupid bullshit with our money instead of using it like it was intended.

social security is gone when i get up to retirement age(which the govt wants to up to 80) i wont get a damn cent even though i would have paid along with millions of others into it. medicaid and medicare were supposed to be the free healthcare but they too are bankrupt. this healthcare system started taking in tax revenues immediately, what do you think the government is going to do with a fat pile of cash laying around?

[Jackie Moon]

my favorite aspect of all this - the people on twitter vowing to leave the united states because of heath care coverage. where are you going to go to escape that dummy, easter island?

[Zint]

my favorite aspect of all this - the people on twitter vowing to leave the united states because of heath care coverage. where are you going to go to escape that dummy, easter island?

[bran]

my favorite aspect of all this - the people on twitter vowing to leave the united states because of heath care coverage. where are you going to go to escape that dummy, easter island?

sort of like how the liberal actors in hollywood said they would leave the us if bush got a second term still waiting lol

[Encuentro]

Can someone explain to me.why Obama care is controversial?

Forcing people to buy healthcare is considered unconstitutional if I'm not mistaken?

It not unconstitutional. It is within the Congress' power to tax. If one chooses not to buy health insurance, they will be taxed. That is the reasoning behind the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the mandate.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Encuentro

[WillieC]

Republicans are sociopaths. Empathy to them is a weakness.

I'm a benevolent person in the end. Feelings are real, they're just electro-chemicial states in the brain. I guess you are trying to make me feel guilty for despising you. I honestly think incentivizing free healthcare on a society where much of the people are not trustworthy or respectable long term is going to have terrible effect.

Everyone locks their doors at night. Lock your car. Change your passwords. I'm sure if you left your wallet on a subway in a welfare state like Sweden you would be pretty much guaranteed to get it returned by dutiful citizen back to your address. In America, you would best want to cancel the credit cards and hope whomever finds your wall never find your address. Americans are disgusting and lazy. Just walk around.

The same Europeans that make fun of us for being fat and stupid should have some empathy when they believe we should be proselytized into their perfect systems.

Edited June 29, 2012 by WillieC

[AxlisOld]

This law is going against what the principle of the US used to be. It used to be, work hard, get ahead, in a bad situation? Change it. I got ahead by working minimum wage and saving money while I had roommates. I paid for every cent of the school I went to from that money, and kept working my way to better jobs and saving money. Medical bills along the way? Paid for those too, no insurance.

This bill is now saying the government knows better than you, go against it and we'll punish you, don't bother trying to get ahead, we'll take from others to give to you, and if you earn something, it will be garnished to pay for others who don't. That is far from the American dream.

[WillieC]

Can you imagine supporting a young American with no job, no prospects, and little fear about having a kid on the way? Some people actually believe the government will help them in the end so they feel no guilt of consequences and no responsibility.

[Dazey]

Absolutely. I don't think failure should be rewarded.

Failure or the inability to pay over $300 a head per month for decent insurance cover?

Can someone explain to me.why Obama care is controversial?

Forcing people to buy healthcare is considered unconstitutional if I'm not mistaken?

It not unconstitutional. It is within the Congress' power to tax. If one chooses not to buy health insurance, they will be taxed. That is the reasoning behind the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the mandate.

I know, that's what I said a little later in the thread.

[bran]

This law is going against what the principle of the US used to be. It used to be, work hard, get ahead, in a bad situation? Change it. I got ahead by working minimum wage and saving money while I had roommates. I paid for every cent of the school I went to from that money, and kept working my way to better jobs and saving money. Medical bills along the way? Paid for those too, no insurance.

This bill is now saying the government knows better than you, go against it and we'll punish you, don't bother trying to get ahead, we'll take from others to give to you, and if you earn something, it will be garnished to pay for others who don't. That is far from the American dream.

great post, like i said maybe maybe in europe and some in the us like government wiping their asses but i can do it just fine on my own

Edited June 29, 2012 by bran

[WillieC]

It's time to start putting up "Welcome, to Detroit" billboards in cities around the U.S. This Obama guy has to go.

[Dazey]

great post, like i said maybe maybe in europe and some in the us like government wiping their asses but i can do it just fine on my own

You mean in every single developed country in the world bar none?

[Jackie Moon]

im voting for whoever wants to militarize canada. we need a serious campaign of immigration and production. Protect that water.

Jackie Moon 2016

[arnold layne]

Government causes more problems than it solves. I say abolish it, create a barter system, and everyone fend for themselves.

[WillieC]

What does using the term "developed country" have to do with healthcare? It's just a buzzword. We are also one of the few western countries that have the death penalty, universal taxation, nuclear weapons. There is no correlation and really doesn't justify it. Americans don't bend over to peer pressure.

[bran]

great post, like i said maybe maybe in europe and some in the us like government wiping their asses but i can do it just fine on my own

You mean in every single developed country in the world bar none?

thats the problem the us isnt europe it is its own country.

[Encuentro]

Absolutely. I don't think failure should be rewarded.

Failure or the inability to pay over $300 a head per month for decent insurance cover?

Can someone explain to me.why Obama care is controversial?

Forcing people to buy healthcare is considered unconstitutional if I'm not mistaken?

It not unconstitutional. It is within the Congress' power to tax. If one chooses not to buy health insurance, they will be taxed. That is the reasoning behind the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the mandate.

I know, that's what I said a little later in the thread.

Sorry. I missed it.

[Dazey]

What does using the term "developed country" have to do with healthcare? It's just a buzzword. We are also one of the few western countries that have the death penalty, universal taxation, nuclear weapons. There is no correlation and really doesn't justify it. Americans don't bend over to peer pressure.

Really? Tell that to the lobbyists! Oh and by "developed" it pretty much means "not living in mud huts or having to sell the farm cos you caught leukaemia".

[AxlisOld]

Absolutely. I don't think failure should be rewarded.

Failure or the inability to pay over $300 a head per month for decent insurance cover?

Can someone explain to me.why Obama care is controversial?

Forcing people to buy healthcare is considered unconstitutional if I'm not mistaken?

It not unconstitutional. It is within the Congress' power to tax. If one chooses not to buy health insurance, they will be taxed. That is the reasoning behind the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the mandate.

I know, that's what I said a little later in the thread.

300 is market value to an individual such as myself, for good insurance. Companies rarely pay that.

And this is not a tax, it is a fine. And let's just think about this, what if someone can't pay for insurance. Well it used to be that they'd be motivated to stay in good shape, and live a more cautious lifestyle and it wouldn't cost them anything. Now if they can't afford it, they have to pay a fine, not a tax. A tax would imply that they are entitled to a service after paying for it. They receive no service after paying this fine, they still don't have health insurance, but they're still paying for it.