Gunman shot dead 10 people at dark night premiere

[rock4eva]

Haha funny. Please tell me this isn't the norm in the USA. Don't talk to me about republican or democrats - I have no idea what either are any more than I do left wing or right wing.

Just have to say that any holdups we have now are done by syringes or knives. Quite often someone with a blood filled syringe will rob a service station (banks don't get robbed any more) - is this happening over there too?

Yeah, no kidding. You'd think all those law abiding gun owners would have been able to stop most of those murders, or the murderers would think twice about using their guns because their victims could also be armed. Uh, I don't think it works that way. I think holding a gun automatically makes your balls grow to 3x their normal size.

The right to bear arms...I disagree, but I get the argument. If you are going to do it though, for the love of God have some controls. I can't believe how easy it seems to be to buy this shit. Like, I think I'll just hop onto Amazon and buy a couple of videogames, some CDs, a few movies, and head to toe bulletproof gear along with an AK47. This is fucking insanity.

People say the U.S. is too far down the road and they can't go back. Nah, you gotta start somewhere. If you are too far down the road then all it means is that it'll take longer to go back to where you want to be. The U.S. could grandfather a gun ban. So, implement some tight controls is the first step, and don't just take guns away from people. If they are law abiding citizens then they can keep their guns until they die, or use them in the commission of a crime, whichever comes first.

The issue with gun acquisition is no different than drugs, or alcohol during prohibition. If you eliminate the ability to buy them legally, there will always be those who will acquire them illegally. Then you are putting the law abiding citizens at a disadvantage. Remember Axl telling the story about how 8 guys were holding him down, and how he hates being vulnerable like that? Well that's how most US citizens view owning guns, they don't want to feel vulnerable and owning a gun makes them feel less vulnerable.

Axl had 8 guys holding him down? Don't think I know that story, why didn't he start biting them?

[Projected]

Wow bran you pulled that right out of your ass.

They don't have "millions" of guns and it is not compulsory to own guns. They need a permit to hold guns.

Conditions for getting a Carrying Permit

There are three conditions:

• fulfilling the conditions for buying a permit (see section below)
• stating plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger
• passing an examination proving both weapon handling skills and knowledge regarding lawful use of the weapon

The carrying permit remains valid for a term of five years (unless otherwise surrendered or revoked), and applies only to the type of firearm for which the permit was issued. Additional constraints may be invoked to modify any specific permit. Neither hunters nor game wardens require a carrying permit.

first of all maybe you should do some research before coming in and acting like a dick, it is mandatory for virtually all men to serve in the military, it is then mandatory for those soldiers to keep a weapon in the house.

Are you just pretending to be an idiot or what?

You better be trolling.

Mandatory military service =/= mandatory gun possession for all citizens of the country, which is what you implied. What the fuck are you on about?

I was wrong about the number of guns, because I under estimated the total population of Switzerland.

But still, there is no compulsory gun ownership law in Switzerland. That is complete rubbish.

[Dazey]

No one needs a fucking gun. What real purpose do they serve if you're not planning on doing something like this guy? There's no reason to own one.

If you don't own one you're no taking your responsibility as a 'murrkan seriously!

[rock4eva]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/americans-should-follow-our-lead-act-now-and-change-their-gun-culture/story-e6frfhqo-1226431603862

Americans should follow our lead, act now and change their gun culture Gun laws in the US make it too easy for people to get weapons. Source: HWT Image Library

THE massacre in Colorado is a dreadful tragedy. Twelve people have lost their lives and another 58 are injured - some critically.

They had been doing nothing more than enjoying a late-night viewing of the Batman movie, The Dark Knight Rises.

A lone gunman dressed in ballistics gear and armed with three guns was able to get into the theatre and calmly pick off innocent men, women and children as they sat in their seats.

But sadly, it's not the first such massacre in America and it won't be the last.

And despite the horror, bloodshed and grief, it's almost guaranteed that US politicians will not act in any meaningful way to tackle America's deadly gun culture.

The man arrested at the theatre in Aurora, Colorado, student James Holmes, 24, allegedly took to the theatre an AR-15 assault rifle - the civilian form of the M16 - a Remington 12-gauge shotgun and a .40-calibre Glock handgun.

Those guns are in wide circulation in America where it is easy to buy, carry and use them.

Unlike in Australia, Americans have the right to bear firearms enshrined in their constitution.

And woe betide anyone who takes on the National Rifle Association, the ultra-powerful lobby group that makes it difficult - almost impossible - for any politicians in America to enact meaningful gun law reform.

The usual arguments will arise out of this massacre - there will be calls for tighter gun controls, and opponents will resist, saying it's people who kill, not guns, and that if more people had been armed, they might have been able to stop the gunman.

They're old arguments, which take us nowhere - certainly there has been little movement politically for tighter gun controls in America since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999 claimed 15 lives, including those of the two killers. Compare this with how Australia reacted when a gunman went on a rampage at Tasmania's Port Arthur in 1996, killing 35 people and wounding another 20.

Then-Australian prime minister John Howard, with bipartisan political support, outlawed several weapons, used taxpayer funds to buy guns back from their owners and took tens of thousands of automatic, semi-automatic and pump-action weapons out of circulation.

We can only wish that American politicians - led by President Barack Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney - could show the same strength and political leadership.

[Dazey]

I support the idea of having more guns equals less killing( which stats show is true).

You can find stats to prove any old shit you want though if you look hard enough, 79% of all people know that! Seriously though, that may be true in some circumstances but you can't make a blanket statement to that effect. Yes it might be the case in a country where there are already 200 million plus guns in private ownership and countless more in the wrong hands but it's not the same elsewhere. In a lot of places the chances are that most criminals won't be carrying a gun therefore that threat isn't anything like the same. In a lot of countries it's very strange to even see a gun so taking my example do you think that in a country with 65 million people and 1 million guns it would make the place safer if say 40 million people owned them instead? It simply wouldn't and your point about Switzerland is a valid one but it's not as cut and dried as all that because there's clearly something about the US that makes its people far more likely to want to kill one another than the Swiss. I mean I could ask the question in that case, why does it seem that the Swiss have gun laws as liberal as those in the States and yet seem to be able to behave themselves to a far greater degree?

[Guest Len B'stard]

If i'm being properly honest, i can't really justify my pro-Guns stance morally. They're something i really like so i take that stance but there's really no arguing the notion that less guns = less deaths.

[Dazey]

If i'm being properly honest, i can't really justify my pro-Guns stance morally. They're something i really like so i take that stance but there's really no arguing the notion that less guns = less deaths.

Len's pro gun lobby in Parliament! "I put it to you m'lud that dey is well fucking sweet innit!"

[rock4eva]

I support the idea of having more guns equals less killing( which stats show is true).

You can find stats to prove any old shit you want though if you look hard enough, 79% of all people know that! Seriously though, that may be true in some circumstances but you can't make a blanket statement to that effect. Yes it might be the case in a country where there are already 200 million plus guns in private ownership and countless more in the wrong hands but it's not the same elsewhere. In a lot of places the chances are that most criminals won't be carrying a gun therefore that threat isn't anything like the same. In a lot of countries it's very strange to even see a gun so taking my example do you think that in a country with 65 million people and 1 million guns it would make the place safer if say 40 million people owned them instead? It simply wouldn't and your point about Switzerland is a valid one but it's not as cut and dried as all that because there's clearly something about the US that makes its people far more likely to want to kill one another than the Swiss. I mean I could ask the question in that case, why does it seem that the Swiss have gun laws as liberal as those in the States and yet seem to be able to behave themselves to a far greater degree?

I read that the Swiss under go lots of military training from a certain age & it continues on throughout a fair bit of their adult life. So they are using their guns for the purpose of military operations, they have a totally different attitude to their guns than Americans which is why their crime rate is so low. I wonder if they also have the lower end of society living in poverty and gang culture of America though. They respect their weapons.

That is why we see these horrendous massacres in America and not in Switzerland.

I had contact with a friend in America who lived in Denver last year and he said he knows families who had relatives in the cinema that night but all are ok. He used to frequent that complex when living there.

Bran I didn't get around to answering your question about the 30 people in the lift - would I prefer one person had a gun & be at risk or 30 had guns so nobody would be game to shoot as they know everyone is armed.

My answer would be that I'd prefer than nobody had a gun in which case there is zero risk of getting shot.

If you have a rifle to target shoot wouldn't it be better to have it kept at the range so only you have access to it & the ammo? Maybe it already is kept that way I don't know but what is the worry is not that you could put it to bad use. It's that someone could rob your place when you aren't there & use your gun for their own purpose. It depends on whether it is locked away in a safe where it wouldn't be able to be found.

[Guest Len B'stard]

If i'm being properly honest, i can't really justify my pro-Guns stance morally. They're something i really like so i take that stance but there's really no arguing the notion that less guns = less deaths.

Len's pro gun lobby in Parliament! "I put it to you m'lud that dey is well fucking sweet innit!"

Don't watch the hype your Honour, mans chattin' shit, guns are the fuckin' peng innit?

[Dazey]

I read that the Swiss under go lots of military training from a certain age & it continues on throughout a fair bit of their adult life. So they are using their guns for the purpose of military operations, they have a totally different attitude to their guns than Americans which is why their crime rate is so low. I wonder if they also have the lower end of society living in poverty and gang culture of America though. They respect their weapons.

That is why we see these horrendous massacres in America and not in Switzerland.

I had contact with a friend in America who lived in Denver last year and he said he knows families who had relatives in the cinema that night but all are ok. He used to frequent that complex when living there.

Bran I didn't get around to answering your question about the 30 people in the lift - would I prefer one person had a gun & be at risk or 30 had guns so nobody would be game to shoot as they know everyone is armed.

My answer would be that I'd prefer than nobody had a gun in which case there is zero risk of getting shot.

If you have a rifle to target shoot wouldn't it be better to have it kept at the range so only you have access to it & the ammo? Maybe it already is kept that way I don't know but what is the worry is not that you could put it to bad use. It's that someone could rob your place when you aren't there & use your gun for their own purpose. It depends on whether it is locked away in a safe where it wouldn't be able to be found.

Just to add a couple more points to that I'd like to see comparable figures not just of murders but of gun use in commission of any crime. I mean what percentage of robberies in the US involve the use of a firearm compared to elsewhere, or indeed what is the actual number of armed robberies in comparison. I think somebody made the point earlier about people carrying a gun somehow tending to grow a set of balls like space hoppers which I think is a valid one. Is there an increased likelihood for opportunistic robberies when somebody can walk into a store carrying a 9mm than there would be where that wasn’t an option?

Also people talk about criminals always being able to get hold of illegal firearms anyway so restricting the legal sale will make no difference. Well how do you think those illegal guns got out there in the first place? If you've got hundreds of millions in circulation, legally owned then isn't it much much easier to steal one and sell it on or use it? I mean these illegal weapons were once legal in most cases were they not? Or at the very least were manufactured with the intent to be sold legally. If that market never existed then there would be less illegal weapons on the streets cos there would simply be less to steal.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Dazey

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Axl had 8 guys holding him down? Don't think I know that story, why didn't he start biting them?

Did I mention they were Chicago cops?

3:11

[ColdHeartBreaker]

No one needs a fucking gun. What real purpose do they serve if you're not planning on doing something like this guy? There's no reason to own one, I'm happily living in a gun-free country.

Sad story, doubt it'll be the last..

yes because everyone who owns a gun is a nut that is going to go nuts and kill people

I think they're pretty stupid at the very least.

I don't understand the fixation with a killing-device. Something made to destroy things, I mean, what do you do with a gun once you own one? Shoot shit. It's barbaric, play video games instead or something!

Once you've given a nation access to fire-arms it's only a matter of time until a wacho like this one gets hold of some..

Edited July 23, 2012 by MoonWalker

[Axl_morris]

I feel no empathy.

Civilians do NOT need to own guns. America feels it's there right, well, so be it, don't come crying to the world when you end up dead.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Same with killing people with guns.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Axl_morris

[estranged 16]

I feel no empathy.

Civilians do NOT need to own guns. America feels it's there right, well, so be it, don't come crying to the world when you end up dead.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

I really don't understand this logic. People who want to own guns will find them one way or another. Legally or illegally. While I think there may need to be more restrictions in place, citizens deserve the right to own guns...period. The thought of not being able to do so is a scary thought.

[Dazey]

I really don't understand this logic. People who want to own guns will find them one way or another. Legally or illegally. While I think there may need to be more restrictions in place, citizens deserve the right to own guns...period. The thought of not being able to do so is a scary thought.

Not to a lot of people.

[sweetness]

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

...this is probably the most retarded thing I've ever read in my life

Edited July 23, 2012 by sweetness

[Axl_morris]

I feel no empathy.

Civilians do NOT need to own guns. America feels it's there right, well, so be it, don't come crying to the world when you end up dead.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

I really don't understand this logic. People who want to own guns will find them one way or another. Legally or illegally. While I think there may need to be more restrictions in place, citizens deserve the right to own guns...period. The thought of not being able to do so is a scary thought.

What if your son/daughter/mum or dad was to be shot dead by someone who got pissed off at something so went on a killing spree from a gun he bought in a shop? Would you change your opinion then?

However, there is little point debating it because this will continue to happen, tends to be emotional people under 25 that go out and kill people, and I bet none of them took up shooting as a sport, they bought guns to feel powerful and used it to fufill themselves with something in there life they are not happy about.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

...this is probably the most retarded thing I've ever read in my life

Okay, so in you opinion I'm a retard, say if I was an american would you trust me with a gun? Would you trust me near your family? There are people out there that would hunt you down for saying something like that.

Enjoy buying guns, sleep with them under pillows and fulfil your own pride, pose in the mirror and when you don't get your own way, start pointing them at people. Land of the free.

[batman007]

I feel no empathy.

Civilians do NOT need to own guns. America feels it's there right, well, so be it, don't come crying to the world when you end up dead.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

I really don't understand this logic. People who want to own guns will find them one way or another. Legally or illegally. While I think there may need to be more restrictions in place, citizens deserve the right to own guns...period. The thought of not being able to do so is a scary thought.

What if your son/daughter/mum or dad was to be shot dead by someone who got pissed off at something so went on a killing spree from a gun he bought in a shop? Would you change your opinion then?

However, there is little point debating it because this will continue to happen, tends to be emotional people under 25 that go out and kill people, and I bet none of them took up shooting as a sport, they bought guns to feel powerful and used it to fufill themselves with something in there life they are not happy about.

It's like leaving a bowl of sweets in a classroom of 5 year olds, leaving the room and expecting no one to eat any by the time you return. It's against the rules, but the temptation is so easy for them. Say with killing people with guns.

...this is probably the most retarded thing I've ever read in my life

Okay, so in you opinion I'm a retard, say if I was an american would you trust me with a gun? Would you trust me near your family? There are people out there that would hunt you down for saying something like that.

Enjoy buying guns, sleep with them under pillows and fulfil your own pride, pose in the mirror and when you don't get your own way, start pointing them at people. Land of the free.

You are so wrong by a mile! Owning a gun for me is not about pride at all. I am in law enforcement and like to prActice. Also, I know their are nut cases out there who have guns. So, why can't I protect my family? ( I have written some of this stuff already on another thread) I have a newborn and a wife. If someone wants to break in my house and try to harm my family , I will do all I can to stop them. If that is to shoot them, so be it! I didn't look for any danger. The danger illegally entered my home. Some native ( and I'm being nice using that word) people say/write, what if the person was unarmed or a teenager? As a father/husband I do not have time to ask for ID or search them. Point fn blank, what the hell are you doing in my house?!! I don't have time to see my family get hurt or raped. Could or gun laws be better? Sure! Until then, I will keep protecting mine!

[Axl_morris]

Batman, you are talking about the right to self defence. In a country such as america where firearms are fairly easy to obtain, then I fully agree with you.

However, if firearms were banned there would be no need, the chances of someone entering your house that owns a firearm would be greatly reduced, however he is still entering your house.

I agree upon if a human is about to commit, or you fully think that a human is intending to kill someone, you can kill that person out right as it would be to save human life. However, the escalation of force rule should be applied.

I'm military, I've used a gun in real situations in Afghan, I've spent years in training and at that time I was fully briefed on my rules of engagements and how to use the escalation of force. When i don't require the weapon no more it is locked away in a secure armoury and is guarded 24 hours a day. Which angers me why some kid just out of high school can walk into a shop and get a permit and walk around with it in his jeans if he wanted.

What possible situation in America or any other first world country would someone need to own a gun. It only makes people buy guys for protection because other people have gun, so out of fear...every one owns a gun so there's always going to be the nutcases who get there hands on them very easy.

But yeah, if I was an american, I'd own a gun, simply because I wouldn't trust whoever breaks into my house, in a perfect society no civilian should own a gun. Guns are designed to kill humans and should only be used in that situation when required by law enforcement or military.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Axl_morris

[bran]

that picture wasnt in america it was in switzerland

Edited July 23, 2012 by bran

[batman007]

Batman, you are talking about the right to self defence. In a country such as america where firearms are fairly easy to obtain, then I fully agree with you.

However, if firearms were banned there would be no need, the chances of someone entering your house that owns a firearm would be greatly reduced, however he is still entering your house.

I agree upon if a human is about to commit, or you fully think that a human is intending to kill someone, you can kill that person out right as it would be to save human life. However, the escalation of force rule should be applied.

I'm military, I've used a gun in real situations in Afghan, I've spent years in training and at that time I was fully briefed on my rules of engagements and how to use the escalation of force. When i don't require the weapon no more it is locked away in a secure armoury and is guarded 24 hours a day. Which angers me why some kid just out of high school can walk into a shop and get a permit and walk around with it in his jeans if he wanted.

What possible situation in America or any other first world country would someone need to own a gun. It only makes people buy guys for protection because other people have gun, so out of fear...every one owns a gun so there's always going to be the nutcases who get there hands on them very easy.

But yeah, if I was an american, I'd own a gun, simply because I wouldn't trust whoever breaks into my house, in a perfect society no civilian should own a gun. Guns are designed to kill humans and should only be used in that situation when required by law enforcement or military.

Cool, I see your points and are very valid in many ways. I am glad you do agree with self defense. Some don't, reguardless.

[Dazey]

Batman, you are talking about the right to self defence. In a country such as america where firearms are fairly easy to obtain, then I fully agree with you.

However, if firearms were banned there would be no need, the chances of someone entering your house that owns a firearm would be greatly reduced, however he is still entering your house.

I agree upon if a human is about to commit, or you fully think that a human is intending to kill someone, you can kill that person out right as it would be to save human life. However, the escalation of force rule should be applied.

I'm military, I've used a gun in real situations in Afghan, I've spent years in training and at that time I was fully briefed on my rules of engagements and how to use the escalation of force. When i don't require the weapon no more it is locked away in a secure armoury and is guarded 24 hours a day. Which angers me why some kid just out of high school can walk into a shop and get a permit and walk around with it in his jeans if he wanted.

What possible situation in America or any other first world country would someone need to own a gun. It only makes people buy guys for protection because other people have gun, so out of fear...every one owns a gun so there's always going to be the nutcases who get there hands on them very easy.

But yeah, if I was an american, I'd own a gun, simply because I wouldn't trust whoever breaks into my house, in a perfect society no civilian should own a gun. Guns are designed to kill humans and should only be used in that situation when required by law enforcement or military.

Cool, I see your points and are very valid in many ways. I am glad you do agree with self defense. Some don't, reguardless.

You both make very good points. In a society where guns aren't prevalent there's no need for civilians to own them. Americans feel they must have a gun for self defence because lots of other Americans have guns. People in many other places don't feel that need cos they don't feel vulnerable in that way.

[bran]

as for the culture of america and why people kill each other, america has a lot of internal problems that do not face other countries. in america we have this stupid war on drugs that have criminal cartells coming across the border and shooting and kidnapping innocent people along the border towns. these cartells also move up and set up shop in different states. also at the same time gang members immigrate here and rival gangs of theirs also migrate and the beef continues in some of our biggest states/cities like LA,NY city,etc

the other problems we have is we have a fucked up system of how to obtain guns. like i have said earlier in the state of florida if your on pain management and your piss test comes back dirty you get red flagged on the computer for every doctor and pharmacy to see. when somone buys 2 hand guns,1 semi automatic assault rifle, shotgun and 6000 rounds of ammo that should send a red flag to every law enforcement agency in the buyers state. its a little different than me buying a handgun and then buying a box of ammo or a hunter buying a shotgun and some shotgun shells during deer season.

in a walmart some middle eastern men tried to buy hundreds of track phones and were denied, and that was a red flag but why no red flags for this?

another thing is we need to get rid of the no background checks at gun shows, and from what i read this guy got his guns through the mail, which scares the shit out of me, you should(as i did) go to a gunshop to purchase guns and wait your time for the back ground check, this prick but his over the internet with no background check, its ridiculous

Edited July 23, 2012 by bran

[Tom1447]

Batman, you are talking about the right to self defence. In a country such as america where firearms are fairly easy to obtain, then I fully agree with you.

However, if firearms were banned there would be no need, the chances of someone entering your house that owns a firearm would be greatly reduced, however he is still entering your house.

I agree upon if a human is about to commit, or you fully think that a human is intending to kill someone, you can kill that person out right as it would be to save human life. However, the escalation of force rule should be applied.

I'm military, I've used a gun in real situations in Afghan, I've spent years in training and at that time I was fully briefed on my rules of engagements and how to use the escalation of force. When i don't require the weapon no more it is locked away in a secure armoury and is guarded 24 hours a day. Which angers me why some kid just out of high school can walk into a shop and get a permit and walk around with it in his jeans if he wanted.

What possible situation in America or any other first world country would someone need to own a gun. It only makes people buy guys for protection because other people have gun, so out of fear...every one owns a gun so there's always going to be the nutcases who get there hands on them very easy.

But yeah, if I was an american, I'd own a gun, simply because I wouldn't trust whoever breaks into my house, in a perfect society no civilian should own a gun. Guns are designed to kill humans and should only be used in that situation when required by law enforcement or military.

Cool, I see your points and are very valid in many ways. I am glad you do agree with self defense. Some don't, reguardless.

I believe in self defence (e.g. pistol/ shotgun), but being able to own thousands of rounds of ammunition and have assualt weapons is kind of stretching it to say the least.

[PappyTron]

Americans who own guns (legally and with no intent to do harm) do not do so because they fear other people with guns but because they fear the unknown. If someone owns a gun legally, has gone through all of the background checks, and nothing is flagged about them, then there is no reason for them to be denied the right to bear arms. To say "nobody needs to own a gun" is like saying "nobody needs to own a car with 600BHP". As for the whole train of thought that the only people who should own guns are the military and the police, well the irony is obvious. In an ideal world we would need neither the police or the military, but we don't live in some idealistic panacea, and the right to bear arms for Americans is because the founding fathers decided that each American needs to be able to defend themselves - from the military and the police, no less.

Edited July 23, 2012 by PappyTron