"Outting" celebrities--is it moral?

[Vincent Vega]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something?

I think the implication is if they don't it's probably because they are ashamed of their sexuality, or fearful that it would hurt their image.

[AbominableHoman]

I think the certain people in the media like to out them because of spite. Probably because there are some no-namers in the media and social circles that are gay and proud and they see these actors putting on a charade afraid of their own sexuality. So it turns out as a "we're going to teach them a lesson and do them a favor at the same time" type of deal.

There should be a more responsible way of doing it, ideally when said person would like to, as to break the mold that all of these closeted actors and actresses feel they need to follow.

Edited July 23, 2012 by AbominableHoman

[ThomasMeadow]

I don't have time to watch the news or TMZ.

I honestly don't give a fuck if a person is gay or not.

[Angelica]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

Of course, ideally, everyone famous or not would be able to come out at their choosing. However, an inescapable aspect of pursuing and obtaining fame, is the loss of privacy. There is a choice there. And some of the people you mention thrive on publicity from their fake heterosexual relationships, which tends to invite mocking.

It is terribly sad that people still lie about this shit, and it does perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful. On that score, I do think there is a moral obligation of sorts to the rest of the community, *but* outing people who aren't ready to be outed isn't moral either.

[TeeJay410]

Does anyone here listen to or know about Frank Ocean? The way he came out I thought was great. On his debut album (he's an R&B singer) he decided not to care about what pronouns he used in his songs, and made some of his songs openly about men. Then a week or two before the album came out he posted an open letter about falling in love with another man, no gay rights speech or anything just a touching story, to get the hubbub out of the way about the use of "man" and "boy" instead of "baby" and "girl" and let the music speak for itself. He came out on his own terms, which is how any celebrity ought to.

[AxlisOld]

Simple, if you get 20 million or more per movie, fuck you, we'll say whatever we want about you.

[Vincent Vega]

Simple, if you get 20 million or more per movie, fuck you, we'll say whatever we want about you.

By the same token, an actor/actress can get 20 million for a movie because the public made them a celebrity by paying for their movies. It's not like they're handed it out of nepotism or whatever except in some small cases; They're handed these big paychecks because the public has made them and their movies big stars, because the public demands these people and their movies; In turn, they get rewarded by the studios for whom they've made money by getting 20 million or more. Why should an actor or actress get paid a small amount on a movie that rakes in millions of dollars, especially when they're the star of the film?

Edited July 24, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Vincent Vega]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

Of course, ideally, everyone famous or not would be able to come out at their choosing. However, an inescapable aspect of pursuing and obtaining fame, is the loss of privacy. There is a choice there. And some of the people you mention thrive on publicity from their fake heterosexual relationships, which tends to invite mocking.

It is terribly sad that people still lie about this shit, and it does perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful. On that score, I do think there is a moral obligation of sorts to the rest of the community, *but* outing people who aren't ready to be outed isn't moral either.

I don't think being famous means you should lose your right to privacy. IMO, a public person can be public but should still have a private life, that is respected. Like, if a star keeps their private life private, that should be respected. Of course the public for it's bizarre reasons wants to know about the private lives of celebrities, but still...At the end of the day, a celebrity entertains and performs in their own way a service to society by entertaining and creating happiness for people in the performance of their craft. I think having their privacy be respected would be a fine reward for what they give.

Here's the thing: The people who lie about being gay do so probably because they're ashamed of it within themselves. People like that--who still remain closeted in 2012 when it's ok to be openly gay--obviously have deep issues with THEMSELVES for being gay, maybe cause of how they were brought up, or other reasons. That doesn't necessarily mean they feel others should feel ashamed or that they wish to perpetuate that being gay, for others, is shameful. They just simply are unhappy with that aspect of themselves because they feel it degrades them or makes them inferior. It's probably really complex psychologically for them. They're really not harming anybody in the process of trying to keep something that they struggle with a secret. But having their homosexuality revealed on the pages of a widely read magazine or on TV is harmful to those close to the celebrity, and to them themselves.

It's like, imagine someone goes around telling everyone you know, and even people you don't know, all the darkest skeletons in the closet, all the most embarrassing things in your personal life or in your sex life, perhaps stuff that REALLY bothers you that you'd rather not think about. Like, say you were raped and you only told those closest to you about it, and then someone finds out and decides that it'd be of benefit to the rape victim community to know you personally were raped. And since you're not going to talk about it, they're going to for you, whether you're ready for it or not, whether you like it or not. "In the interest of the community."

Or think about this way: You grow up the son/daughter of a celebrity. It isn't your choice that your dad or mom happens to be a huge star. And you love them and have preconceived notions about you, your parents and your family, the stuff that builds the foundations of your identity etc. Suddenly one day you read in magazines or turn on the TV or go to TMZ and they're outing your dad or mom as being gay, and claiming in essence that your parents' marriage is naught but a lie, a sham and a cover. Which implies that your own existence is to cover for your parent being gay. That shit would turn your world upside down, your whole conception of your life and your identity. That shit would be deeply fucked up and a mind fuck and hurtful--but the media would pursue it without regard for the people they might hurt in the process because "celebrities owe it to gays to come out."

We already have enough openly gay activists who are celebrities, it's not like there aren't big names both gay and straight fighting the good fight for equal rights; we don't need to go knocking down and belittling and mocking beloved stars who've contributed a lot simply because they're not comfortable with their sexuality. With people like Travolta, Pacino, etc, I feel they've contributed enough to society, to the public, to people who grew up loving what they made, for decades to the point that they frankly should just be left alone. If they're truly gay, their homosexuality should be announced only if or when they want it to be, by themselves--End of.

To me, a celebrity owes society nothing. It's a simple two way street: Celebrity makes a product/film/record/whatever and puts it out for public consumption. The audience buys into it or doesn't. They've given to society, society has accepted and paid for what they've offered or hasn't. That's the extent of the relationship, IMO. You can have favorite celebrities or whatever and read about them, emulate 'em or their image but I just think personal lives are off limits unless the person themselves puts it out there. At the end of the day, celebrities aren't gods or superbeings, they're just people like me and you. Do you really care about your neighbor's personal life or whether your co-worker is gay all that much? Would it not be wrong on your part to dig into a neighbor or co-worker's personal life and expose whatever (harmless to others) dirt they have? That's how I view celebrities--Just more successful and well known versions of me or you or anyone else here.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[AbominableHoman]

Jesus Christ, Miser. Under the current format I'm supposed to be writing a paper in, that was a 5 page response.

[AxlisOld]

At least he used paragraphs.

[AbominableHoman]

I know. His long posts are the least tl;dr here.

[arnold layne]

Tebow is a raging homo. He may as well admit it so we can get the twenty-four hour SportsCenter special out of the way and done with.

[AbominableHoman]

Tebow is a raging homo. He may as well admit it so we can get the twenty-four hour SportsCenter special out of the way and done with.

Jealousy is a stinky cologne, man.

When he does get his dick wet, it's going to be the most ripe and beautiful pussy any man has ever seen. Gay or not.

[arnold layne]

Tebow is a raging homo. He may as well admit it so we can get the twenty-four hour SportsCenter special out of the way and done with.

Jealousy is a stinky cologne, man.

When he does get his dick wet, it's going to be the most ripe and beautiful pussy any man has ever seen. Gay or not.

I'm jealous of others, but Tebow is not on that list.

First of all, I'm happy that I'm not gay and second of all I enjoy my non-professional, yet not awkward, throwing style thank you.

[Angelica]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

Of course, ideally, everyone famous or not would be able to come out at their choosing. However, an inescapable aspect of pursuing and obtaining fame, is the loss of privacy. There is a choice there. And some of the people you mention thrive on publicity from their fake heterosexual relationships, which tends to invite mocking.

It is terribly sad that people still lie about this shit, and it does perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful. On that score, I do think there is a moral obligation of sorts to the rest of the community, *but* outing people who aren't ready to be outed isn't moral either.

I don't think being famous means you should lose your right to privacy. IMO, a public person can be public but should still have a private life, that is respected. Like, if a star keeps their private life private, that should be respected. Of course the public for it's bizarre reasons wants to know about the private lives of celebrities, but still...At the end of the day, a celebrity entertains and performs in their own way a service to society by entertaining and creating happiness for people in the performance of their craft. I think having their privacy be respected would be a fine reward for what they give.

Being famous does mean you lose your right to privacy, though. Whether it should is another debate. In this era particularly, it just does.

[Vincent Vega]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

Of course, ideally, everyone famous or not would be able to come out at their choosing. However, an inescapable aspect of pursuing and obtaining fame, is the loss of privacy. There is a choice there. And some of the people you mention thrive on publicity from their fake heterosexual relationships, which tends to invite mocking.

It is terribly sad that people still lie about this shit, and it does perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful. On that score, I do think there is a moral obligation of sorts to the rest of the community, *but* outing people who aren't ready to be outed isn't moral either.

I don't think being famous means you should lose your right to privacy. IMO, a public person can be public but should still have a private life, that is respected. Like, if a star keeps their private life private, that should be respected. Of course the public for it's bizarre reasons wants to know about the private lives of celebrities, but still...At the end of the day, a celebrity entertains and performs in their own way a service to society by entertaining and creating happiness for people in the performance of their craft. I think having their privacy be respected would be a fine reward for what they give.

Being famous does mean you lose your right to privacy, though. Whether it should is another debate. In this era particularly, it just does.

Of course that's the unfortunate reality...But even working with that reality, I think the media goes a bit TOO far. Would you agree?

Edited July 24, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[AxlisOld]

Too far obviously, the high speed chases and shit for photos is redonculous, but as far as people digging into your personal life, fuck man, if it can be found and people.pay for it, is it a surprise?

[Guest Len B'stard]

i don't see why anyone would give a fuck..

[Angelica]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

Of course, ideally, everyone famous or not would be able to come out at their choosing. However, an inescapable aspect of pursuing and obtaining fame, is the loss of privacy. There is a choice there. And some of the people you mention thrive on publicity from their fake heterosexual relationships, which tends to invite mocking.

It is terribly sad that people still lie about this shit, and it does perpetuate the notion that being gay is shameful. On that score, I do think there is a moral obligation of sorts to the rest of the community, *but* outing people who aren't ready to be outed isn't moral either.

I don't think being famous means you should lose your right to privacy. IMO, a public person can be public but should still have a private life, that is respected. Like, if a star keeps their private life private, that should be respected. Of course the public for it's bizarre reasons wants to know about the private lives of celebrities, but still...At the end of the day, a celebrity entertains and performs in their own way a service to society by entertaining and creating happiness for people in the performance of their craft. I think having their privacy be respected would be a fine reward for what they give.

Being famous does mean you lose your right to privacy, though. Whether it should is another debate. In this era particularly, it just does.

Of course that's the unfortunate reality...But even working with that reality, I think the media goes a bit TOO far. Would you agree?

Sure they go too far. But no one gets there without knowing the score and having fought tooth and nail for it, and there are excessive perks to offset the intrusions.

[Johnny Drama]

Name and shame them, I say.

[Vincent Vega]

Name and shame them, I say.

May I ask why?

[Dazey]

Name and shame them, I say.

May I ask why?

Coz they is qweeaz and they had it comin' innit!

[dalsh327]

I've never understood the need on the part of the media, or the viewing public, to "out" a closeted gay or bisexual celebrity. Hollywood and the media are seemingly so accepting of gays, yet the media tends to treat closeted gays like terrible people or deviants. If a celebrity is gay and doesn't feel comfortable coming out, is it moral to do so against his/her wish? Do celebrities have some sort of social obligation to come out or something? I've seen the media rip apart some allegedly gay celebrities like Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Jodie Foster, Tom Selleck, George Clooney, Richard Gere, Al Pacino and many others...And it seems trendy to "out" dead celebrities who aren't around to defend themselves...I've seen allegations that Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, James Dean, and a ton of others were either bisexual or gay.

And it seems a trend, especially on media sites like TMZ, to out celebrities who don't want to be outed, or to mock, attack or belittle supposedly closeted celebrities...How do you guys feel about it? I feel that in general--gay or not--even though celebrities are public people, they do deserve privacy when it comes to their private lives unless they choose to make their private lives public.

You're also talking about people around the same age, same generation. It's not like George Takei, who's in his 70s, or Neil Patrick Harris, who's in his 30s, and didn't feel it would hurt their careers in any way. Anderson Cooper's around the same age as Cruise & Foster, but he felt it was time to just say it, because he realized not saying it came across as trying to hide it in shame.

The thing is, if a guy's married, and he's out shopping in West Hollywood with another dude and they look more like a couple, he's not exactly working all that hard to hide it. Or if he is bisexual when it comes to encounters and not relationships, I just think when someone's well-liked, their friends are real reluctant to discuss it. And if they have a lot of money, there's lawyers that'll handle it.

Some people who work in the media are gay, so they want some people to stop pretending they're living a lie, and try to force the news out.

I think post Ellen and Rosie, Jodie Foster just felt comfortable being more open about her relationship, because it had been going on for years. I think people in the media protected her though.

The only people any of them owe an explanation to are their families.

[PappyTron]

I couldn't care less, but I had never heard the rumour that Pacino is gay. I wonder if he yells "whoo-ha" when the tip goes in?