Interesting--Alan Niven wanted to fire Axl right after AFD came out

[blackrose87]

Man, Axl really has a history with managers trying to screw him over ...

Yeah and band members bailing on him. He must just be just incredibly unlucky i guess

[Cosmo]

Man, Axl really has a history with managers trying to screw him over ...

Yeah and band members bailing on him. He must just be just incredibly unlucky i guess

Or extremely hard to work with

[Guest NGOG]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

[Cosmo]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

And where is Axl and new Guns N' Roses today? Touring the hits Izzy helped writing.

[Carne_asaDA]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

I don't think Izzy "needs" Axl....or anybody. He has always intentionally avoided the spotlight. A few guest appearance gigs with Axl and VR here and there. But that's it.

[Kapitch_77]

Poor Axl. Everyone out to get him.

Yeah poor Axl, he's been a victim since day 1. Why is EVERYBODY out to get him?

[Guest NGOG]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

And where is Axl and new Guns N' Roses today? Touring the hits Izzy helped writing.

On tour playing to very large audiences in various parts of the globe. With a 5 mill+ record to boast in a world of MP3s.

It's silly to believe Izzy wrote the setlist GN'R play. He probably contributed a lot to parts of the song catalogue. Should Trent Reznor stop playing the NIN material which featured players like Robin Finck when that project start afresh later this year? No because it's his material too. Slash plays GN'R songs with Izzy credits. If you're successful at playing the old material why stop?

[alfierose]

They all needed each other to create something as big as GNR. Outside of GNR Axl and Slash stood the best chance of achieving success because a charismatic lead singer and a talented lead guitarist are always going to have more appeal than a bassist, rhythm guitarist or drummer. It's sort of a musical top trumps and mostly applies to all bands, with the odd notable exception.

[saber_]

This thread has already been made.

[Guest NGOG]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

I don't think Izzy "needs" Axl....or anybody. He has always intentionally avoided the spotlight. A few guest appearance gigs with Axl and VR here and there. But that's it.

Whether Izzy desires the musical spotlight is his own perogative and frankly off topic. The point is should he hypothetically want the fame experienced with Appetite he needs Axl, not vice versa. Axl and Izzy probably still share some musical chemistry that existed at the start, but it's quite telling that Axl hasn't made much use of that renewed relationships in terms of creativity besides what, one documented song which may since have been released as an Izzy song?

charismatic lead singer

And accomplished pianist/composer (hello November Rain??). Axl is not a Liam Gallagher type. Edited March 19, 2013 by NGOG

[alfierose]

Poor Axl. Everyone out to get him.

Yeah poor Axl, he's been a victim since day 1. Why is EVERYBODY out to get him?

Everybody was out to get Jesus too.

No wonder Axl wore that t-shirt.

Edit: He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy.

[Carne_asaDA]

CD sold 5 million+ copies. 4.5 million wish that they could get refunds but can't. Thanks to copyright laws.

[alfierose]

I know he is an accomplished piano player. My point was that people are generally more interested in frontmen. I was paying him a compliment.

[Guest NGOG]

CD sold 5 million+ copies. 4.5 million wish that they could get refunds but can't. Thanks to copyright laws.

Can you verify that wild figure? If you are pointing to the extortionate record fees retailers naively expect consumers to still pay, I would agree.

I think a far bigger population than 5 mill would own parts of Chinese Democracy by way of torrents.

[Carne_asaDA]

CD sold 5 million+ copies. 4.5 million wish that they could get refunds but can't. Thanks to copyright laws.

Can you verify that wild figure? If you are pointing to the extortionate record fees retailers naively expect consumers to still pay, I would agree.

I think a far bigger population than 5 mill would own parts of Chinese Democracy by way of torrents.

I'm talking about the CD that could have been found in the $2 bin at Best Buy.

[gnrkoncerti]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

VR more sucesufull than new GNR...In you gay dreams...

[Guest NGOG]

CD sold 5 million+ copies. 4.5 million wish that they could get refunds but can't. Thanks to copyright laws.

Can you verify that wild figure? If you are pointing to the extortionate record fees retailers naively expect consumers to still pay, I would agree.

I think a far bigger population than 5 mill would own parts of Chinese Democracy by way of torrents.

I'm talking about the CD that could have been found in the $2 bin at Best Buy.

Not everybody has access to such a bargain as the Best Buy deal was exclusive to the US. Most instore retailers in Europe market Chinese for £8+. Edited March 19, 2013 by NGOG

[classicrawker]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

Velvet Revolver was made possible by the success those players enjoyed with GN'R. The supergroup was lucrative to people like Scott Weiland because of the GN'R pedigree. The only person you could say with confidence could have enjoyed relative success without Guns N' Roses would have been Slash. That is proven by the irrelevance of Duff and Matt musically outside of that project.

Izzy and Axl were a creative pair certainly. But Izzy needed Axl more than Axl needed Izzy and that's the reality. Where is Izzy today? Reappearing with Axl and new GN'R.

And where is Axl and new Guns N' Roses today? Touring the hits Izzy helped writing.

On tour playing to very large audiences in various parts of the globe. With a 5 mill+ record to boast in a world of MP3s.

It's silly to believe Izzy wrote the setlist GN'R play. He probably contributed a lot to parts of the song catalogue. Should Trent Reznor stop playing the NIN material which featured players like Robin Finck when that project start afresh later this year? No because it's his material too. Slash plays GN'R songs with Izzy credits. If you're successful at playing the old material why stop?

It has never been verified that ChiDem sold more than 3 million units.....still excellent but not 5 million as you claim........

[Carne_asaDA]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

VR more sucesufull than new GNR...In you gay dreams...

The buzz around VR was 1000x's better than Nu GnR. You would find the same demograph at VR shows as you would at GnR shows of the late 80's and 90's. Nu-GnR shows were full of suit and tie types, stretch-marks, and saggy-tits.

[Apollo]

How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

VR more sucesufull than new GNR...In you gay dreams...

Wow, we've got a homophobe on our hands.

But yes, they were.

New GnR has released ZERO albums and is currently touring off of songs that this band didn't write.

The version of GnR before the current version - is that the band that you mean?

Well, let's compare.

Who sold more albums: VR

Who had the bigger selling album: VR

Who released more music: VR

Who received more critical success: VR

So explain to me how either "new" version of GnR is more successful than VR was? If your definition of success is touring songs they didn't write, then yes - GnR wins. But in terms of albums, sales, critical response... VR wins by a mile.

If you want to talk about which band put out music that I enjoy more? The second version of GnR would be my pick. Again, by a mile. CD was a brilliant album and I still listen to it almost daily. I could never get into VR and found the majority of there songs extremely boring. BUT all that is just personal preference. Hopefully someday Beta will convince Axl to let the current band release music so they can stand on their own as a band, instead of riding the coat-tail of others. ONCE that happens, then we can compare the success of the "new" band to that of the "old-new band" and the "classic line-up" and against VR.

[magisme]

Fuck facts. They're out to get Axl too.

[tr420]

Yea fire the greatest singer of all time right after the greatest album of all time is released.

[foool13]

Maybe this is where some of Axls bitterness stems from..

[machinegunner]

Also muddles the picture further about when Axl did the whole 'name contract' thing. Niven says it happened not long after he was fired, in May '91. Slash had the date as on or around September 1st 1992. Duff gives it as July 7th 1993.

It was Sept 1st 1992. The legal documents are on Chinese Whsipers.

Hi. is that gnrevolution site? can't find them - can you provide a link please?

Man Axl must have really been on tenterhooks with such a treacherous manager.

[Vincent Vega]

How could Duff fuck up the date if the legal documents are right in front of him? He's even fucking specific in the context too, saying there were only a few UYI shows left. And Niven says it was pretty much the first thing Axl did after he was fired in May 1991. And claimed Axl wouldn't do the UYI tour if they didn't sign, risking the band millions and possibly their career itself. But if it happened in September 1992, the UYI tour was well underway for over a year, and they didn't even originally plan on doing shows in '93 according to Slash; The last year of the tour was only added on to make money since Axl had pissed away the money from the tour on this theme parties, according to Slash.

And if it happened in July '93, the UYI tour was pretty much over. So the whole "holding the tour hostage" scenario kind of falls apart when the three most involved parties can't seem to even get straight when what's probably the most pivotal event in the band's history happened.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Vincent Vega