Music consumers are as much to blame for the state of the music industry

[Bono]

I just checked my mail and a new CD I ordered has arrived. Yes a CD, you know those little discs that play music. Some of you may have forgotten what those are. Take away the music stores and I'll just order CDs online(Please don't take away that option). The next best thing to walking into a music store and seeing the album you want on the shelf, picking it up, looking at it, buying it and then going out to your car to listen to it for the first time, is walking up to your mail box and finding a parcel inside containing that special album you've been waiting patiently for. People who have abandoned the practice of buying hard copy albums are seriously robbing themselves(and eventually others) of a major part of loving music. It's more than just a file you download. It's a piece of art that should be treated as such. Sure sometimes after a closer look(listen) the art you've purchased isn't what you hoped it would be but at least you've made the connection with it. It's more personal this way. I appreciate bands making the effort to produce something of value and I think it's going to be a sad day when the only option for purchasing music is downloading a file only. Take the new Pearl Jam album for example. Aside from the music the packaging is a piece of art in itself. Now why would anyone want to dismiss that in favour of an mp3 file or itune file? Would you prefer that painting on your wall to be a simple jpeg file? Something you download? Book enthusiasts, would you want to eliminate all book stores and have the experience of buying a new book limited to clicking a button to download the file? No? Then why have we accepted this when it comes to music?

Music is as much or more so a part of our lives as anything there is. We listen to it over and over again and it creates soundtracks to our lives more so than books or movies. It inspires, it triggers memories. It heals, it hurts, it saves lives, it brings people together, it creates atmosphere, it changes things. Maybe I'm just old school when it comes to my attitude towards buying/obtaining music but to be honest I don't think that's it. I know for a fact that what I felt today when seeing that parcel in the mailbox is ten times better than what the person who downloaded the same album felt. There's merit to what I'm saying and sadly I think people have stopped caring about music for God knows why. Sure they listen to it but it doesn't mean anything to people anymore. Albums have become an after thought, replaced by mp3 playlists of singles. Often times by a mix of "artists" who's only talent is looking good(allegedly). The songs are forgettable not only because they aren't that good but because they're so easily dismissed by people in favour of the next click of a button.

As I'm writing this I'm listening to a new album I have never heard before. I'm not listening to a single song by an artist, I'm listening to his entire album. Why would I waste my time doing that? Because I appreciate the joy of discovering new music for myself and I enjoy the concept of an album. If an artist has one good song they might have two but how would I ever know that unless I listen to all they have to offer rather than one song? I wouldn't but that is the norm these days. People being fans of artists they know nothing about when it comes to their music. You don't need to know a single thing about them as people but I cringe when I hear someone say "Oh I love so and so" yet they can't name you more than one or two songs they've heard on radio. If you're a fan why wouldn't you want to hear the songs the artist spent the last 2-3 years of their lives writing and recording and putting it all together as one collection to make an album? Nothing bugs me more than going to see a band I love and having "fans" shout out the name of the single all show long because said fans don't know any other song and can't be bothered with the other 12 songs being played because they never took the time to appreciate what else the artist might have to offer.

I went for Thanksgiving dinner a few weeks ago at a friend of my dad's place. He had on display in his living room about 150 cd's on a stand. It instantly stood out to me because you don't see that anymore. In the five minutes I spent looking at his cd's I knew more about him than I did 5 minutes earlier. It's not much but I knew what kind of music he liked and that in turn gave me a glimpse into his personality. But what most people do nowadays is hide their music on their lap top for nobody to see and if someone does happen to see it, nobody actually enjoys going through someone's music on a computer. Well at least I don't. There's nothing interesting about a bunch of songs that look exactly the same. I do enjoy going through someone's cd collection though. If it's vinyl even better. It's like looking at the books on someone's book shelf. That's cool. That's a glimpse into not only who they are but into the artists who have created the music on those albums.

20 years ago something like this would have never popped into my head because the fun of buying albums wasn't slowly(or quickly) being fazed out of society. I guess if the appreciation for music was still there it wouldn't bug me so much but in my opinion the fazing out of hard copy albums and the diminishing importance of actual albums themselves is a sign of people's unappreciation for music these days. People's disinterest in music is slowly taking something I enjoy away from me so I have a right to be bothered by it. I used to think the music labels were responsible for the decline of the music industry. More and more I'm starting to think the consumer is responsible. It's probably both but it's the consumers who have lost interest and have made the choice to buy into the crap they're being fed and it's the consumers who have lost interest in real art. I wish people would appreciate music the way they once did. It would force music labels to once again focus on real artists rather than disposable distractions. It might also bring back for a new generation, the joy, fun and appreciation that past generations experienced when buying albums. Something this generation is obviously missing out on.

[DieselDaisy]

Couldn't agree more.

[DR DOOM]

I'm still pretty traditional in that I buy CD's, and I love the point you made about looking at someone's LP/tape/CD collection, that's going the way of the dodo sadly.

I grew up fascinated by my mother's record collection and all the covers!

[Rdeyahlxp]

I agree with your statement, but it's the inevitable advance of technology. My dad has a pile of over 50 vinyls from his youth, all collecting dust upstairs.

Artist are adapting to the advances of technology (think about Duff McKagan's the Taking, Metallica's through the Never, Slash Movie etc.), but I fear the consumer of today can't bring it up anymore to sit back, relax and enjoy something. Thanks to the internet the consumer is getting smarter and greedier by the day and aren't willing to shell out money anymore. For most consumers nowadays an album of music is just a quick fix and barely has the same effect as that grand euphoria you got when you bought a new record of your favorite band 20 years ago. Just look at that video from a record store at the time of the launch of the UYIs in D&N. You will never ever get that same experience again. The fact that the whole mystique about your favorite artist is gone because of the internet also has a lot to do with it.

I think the future for an artist lies in making digital interactive content. Think about a visual experience to accompany the music. Perhaps even a videogame, think along the lines of Tim Schafer's Brutal Legend. Maybe a 3D mini-hologram live concert when you open your record, who knows. Given the rapid advance of technology, I think a lot will be possible in only a couple of years.

[Amir]

I've discovered more music than ever thanks to Spotify. I don't have to worry about whether a CD is available or not. I can view friends' playlists. I prefer listening to albums, occasionally singles, to each their own.

I've been to more concerts than ever because of Songkick (which I started becoming a power user of because of Spotify), and buy merch on Amazon and other sites.

If the artwork for an album is good or there's a cool special edition, I'll buy a physical version. I would pay stupid money for a Red Hand CD.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I don't see why people think that musics place in popular culture like…guaranteed, it's not and basically the importance of popular music to the world at large has diminished greatly. I mean if you had an artist these days who went on the TV and took themselves and their shit as seriously as the Bowies or Bolans or even Lennons of this world, sat their waffling on about art and changing the world people'd just think he/she was a wanker. In fact a great number (probably the vast majority) of the world thought that about those old guys too, it's just music fans read these music history that talk about such and such musician and his historical importance and how he's the best thing since sliced bread etc etc but thats only to fans of their music or rather fans OF music but yeah, my basic point is the state of the music industry is a reflection of the level of interest in music that exist, it ain't the same anymore. Music will be around for as long as their is time but don't sit there thinking that popular music is the length and breadth of music, this big commercial enterprise that started in the 50s isn't whats musics about, it's not measured in the sale of CDs or whether a bunch of androgynously dressed ponces can fill stadiums or not.

The music industry is just the mechanics by which music that you can make a profit on is sold to you, thats all. And the further from that music is the better.

[Amir]

I mean if you had an artist these days who went on the TV and took themselves and their shit as seriously as the Bowies or Bolans or even Lennons of this world, sat their waffling on about art and changing the world people'd just think he/she was a wanker.

That's because everyone's a bloody post-modern ironic hipster these days.

this big commercial enterprise that started in the 50s isn't whats musics about, it's not measured in the sale of CDs or whether a bunch of androgynously dressed ponces can fill stadiums or not.

Jagger made this point recently, there was just a very brief period in history ('50s to '90s) where artists could expect to get minted from even one hit song.

[Guest Len B'stard]

That's because everyone's a bloody post-modern ironic hipster these days.

I think thats wrong, i think it's the post modern ironic hipster types that would appreciate the waffling, it's your average man on the street that would think it's a load of waffling arty farty bollocks.

Jagger made this point recently, there was just a very brief period in history ('50s to '90s) where artists could expect to get minted from even one hit song.

Yes, well, y'know, great minds and all that But no, seriously, he's spot on, this fairly new phenomenon and it just appears we've taken for granted that it's gonna be in place forever when there's nothing to suggest that it will…or even should. I think we evolve as a society and although we're probably always gonna be prey to certain predilections you can cater to and serve different needs in people through different things and not necessarily forever through this one avenue.

It occurs to me now more than ever when i listen to interviews from my favourite artists from Morrissey to John Lennon to, y'know, whoever, i love it and i probably always will, being from a generation where people took musicians seriously still as possibly being some sort of figureheads from something but the truth is they're just a bunch of really arrogant cunts trying their best to be difficult Im watching this interview with The Stone Roses and it's John Squire and Ian Brown sitting there giving one word answers and being all standoffish and filling the airtime with long silences and, i dunno, perhaps i'm getting old or something but it's like…whats the point?

So you go on the telly, on purpose, to act like you don't wannabe on the telly, now at a certain age that might be cool but as you get older you don't have time for such fannying about and like, i think kids are maturer now at younger ages than they were in my day and they wouldn't fuckin' have it basically, they'd just think it was a load of shit.

That whole thing, that image, the popstar, the sunglasses, the limo, the life lived out in public as some sort of neurotic expression of some kind of inner turmoil, it's a load of cobblers, in 2013 no one cares anymore.

Edited November 7, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

That's because everyone's a bloody post-modern ironic hipster these days.

I think thats wrong, i think it's the post modern ironic hipster types that would appreciate the waffling, it's your average man on the street that would think it's a load of waffling arty farty bollocks.

But the self-consciousness thing is an epidemic, at least here in the South:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/iron-maiden-fans-somehow-immune-to-self-consciousness-epidemic-2013042666810

[RussTCB]

We have a weekly Music Night event of sorts at our house. People turn each other on to music others haven't heard before almost every week. I've learned a ton about people by them flipping though my albums as well. I get a lot of "Oh man, the first time I heard this I was...", "One time I saw these guys in concert and..." and "My dad loved this album, he used to..." that type of stuff. I have 3 local record stores that I frequent and I've actually had workers at 2 of them tell me that they've had people come in to special order stuff and they mentioned that they heard of it because of our music night. I've purchased at least 5-10 albums as a result of it as well. I think music gets the short end of the stick in so many ways at least here in the US, but I'm trying to do my best to help change that!

[Amir]

If it wasn't for the Internet and MyGNR, I wouldn't have bought all the GNR CDs (Live Era aside), gone to 12 shows, met you guys, gone to see Iron Maiden and Mayer Hawthorne in concert, gotten into Kanye West...

Pros and cons.

[Bono]

No one cares anymore because the people they are given to care about are fucking useless. This idea that the further away from top 40 or mainstream you get the better the music is is nonsense. Mainstream top 40 as recently as the 90s always had true talent, real music to counter balance the disposable distractions. Early 90s top 40 consisted of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Guns N' Roses, Metallica, U2, Radiohead, Oasis etc etc etc. Yes it had the crap as well but it also had quality bands who would all go on to become classics. Top 40 today consists of throw away fluff and that is it. the classic rock bands kids are given today are bands like Nickleback. The quality isn't being accepted anymore. As a society the draw isn't the music anymore it's the gimmick and the formula. Miley Cyrus is the perfect example right now. Her appeal has NOTHING to do with her music.

This idea that today's generation is more mature is also not true at all. Generations past at least listened to what was being said. Look at the mainstream popular music today. How can that draw anyone to the conclusion that today's young music listener's are more mature? They don't buy into the rock star image? They think it's a load of bull? Explain the fascination with all these high rollin' "ballers". Explain swag. Explain kids wanting to dress and act like thugs. Kids today are every bit as fascinated with "rock stars" the thing is they don't look anything like rock stars past and sadly the music is anything but star quality anymore.

The difference between then and now is the music came first in the past. These days is all about image and music is the after though. The appreciation for the real art is gone and it's all about material shit. And don't think I don't understand this didn't exists in the past. All I'm saying is there was a balance once upon a time. There is no balance anymore when it comes to the machine. It's just regurgitated shit after regurgitated shit. It's not even music anymore and the younger generation has bought into it. they don't care. Their attention spans are too short to care and the industry is feeding off it. A mature generation would see this and stop it. But they aren't and they won't.

And one last thing I understand every generation gets to a point where they don't understand the appeal of the current music scene and what appeals to the young generation is baffeling and that's part of getting old but that's not what is happening now. There's a reason why as years have gone on the older generation above me has grown to appreciate Guns N' Roses or Pearl Jam and there's a reason why years later I respect and appreciate Public Enemy and Tupac........... Nobody is ever going to feel that way 20 years later about Nickleback, Lil' Wayne, Miley Cyrus, etc etc. Where are the quality mainstream acts for this generation?

[Bono]

If it wasn't for the Internet and MyGNR, I wouldn't have bought all the GNR CDs (Live Era aside), gone to 12 shows, met you guys, gone to see Iron Maiden and Mayer Hawthorne in concert, gotten into Kanye West...

Pros and cons.

I think you're missing the point. I have no problem with people using technology to discover new music. Hell I use it all the time. Youtube is the greatest invention ever. There's a big difference though between using the technology to discover music and using it to take music for granted which is what most people these days do. Music used to enter people's lives in a much more personal way. We can argue the pros and cons of technology advances all we want but it's a straight up fact that people immersed themselves in music much more in the past than they do now. It's because of how easily accessible everything is people move onto the next thing so damn quickly. People don't bother to make connections with albums anymore. Kids don't download an album and then sit there and listen to it from start to finish reading the lyrics all the way through. Their attention spans are too short. It's just the way it is BUT I guarantee you if people started buying albums again the music landscape would change for the better. Quality would rise back to to the top. Why? Because when people invest in something they want it to be good. Nobody invests in music anymore therefor the product has suffered immensely.

[Amir]

You also got more immersed into music because you had access to less of it. It's a case of overabundance/too much of a good thing:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/life-changing-albums-downgraded-to-day-changing-2013080677948

It's satire, yes, but it makes a good point. Ten years ago, I would have probably bought MMLP2 and listened to it for months. Now I've got so many albums to go through I barely have the time for a couple of playthroughs!

[RussTCB]

No one cares anymore because the people they are given to care about are fucking useless. This idea that the further away from top 40 or mainstream you get the better the music is is nonsense. Mainstream top 40 as recently as the 90s always had true talent, real music to counter balance the disposable distractions. Early 90s top 40 consisted of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Guns N' Roses, Metallica, U2, Radiohead, Oasis etc etc etc. Yes it had the crap as well but it also had quality bands who would all go on to become classics. Top 40 today consists of throw away fluff and that is it. the classic rock bands kids are given today are bands like Nickleback. The quality isn't being accepted anymore. As a society the draw isn't the music anymore it's the gimmick and the formula. Miley Cyrus is the perfect example right now. Her appeal has NOTHING to do with her music.

This idea that today's generation is more mature is also not true at all. Generations past at least listened to what was being said. Look at the mainstream popular music today. How can that draw anyone to the conclusion that today's young music listener's are more mature? They don't buy into the rock star image? They think it's a load of bull? Explain the fascination with all these high rollin' "ballers". Explain swag. Explain kids wanting to dress and act like thugs. Kids today are every bit as fascinated with "rock stars" the thing is they don't look anything like rock stars past and sadly the music is anything but star quality anymore.

The difference between then and now is the music came first in the past. These days is all about image and music is the after though. The appreciation for the real art is gone and it's all about material shit. And don't think I don't understand this didn't exists in the past. All I'm saying is there was a balance once upon a time. There is no balance anymore when it comes to the machine. It's just regurgitated shit after regurgitated shit. It's not even music anymore and the younger generation has bought into it. they don't care. Their attention spans are too short to care and the industry is feeding off it. A mature generation would see this and stop it. But they aren't and they won't.

And one last thing I understand every generation gets to a point where they don't understand the appeal of the current music scene and what appeals to the young generation is baffeling and that's part of getting old but that's not what is happening now. There's a reason why as years have gone on the older generation above me has grown to appreciate Guns N' Roses or Pearl Jam and there's a reason why years later I respect and appreciate Public Enemy and Tupac........... Nobody is ever going to feel that way 20 years later about Nickleback, Lil' Wayne, Miley Cyrus, etc etc. Where are the quality mainstream acts for this generation?

Had a whole reply typed out and accidentally closed my browser. SON OF A BITCH! Lol. Here it goes again:

About 5 years ago or so, I started to go through a "Maybe I'm the old guy now who says 'the music kids listen to these days is awful!". I came to the realization that you're talking about above: It's all so disposable. When I was 15-20, the people older than me that were saying "The music you kids listen too..." were fans of The Eagles, Elton John, The Beatles and Led Zeppelin. They were talking about bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Warrant and Guns N' Roses. These were people who just grew up on a lighter style of rock and just didn't like the change that was happening. To me, that's a completely different situation than what's happening today.

Like you said, everything is just so disposable today. There just aren't many acts that people can get attached to because they're just so apparently fake. Even casual music fans used to be able to name at least a couple members of a band they liked. That hasn't happened in years. People really don't even make much of a connection to the songs themselves anymore.

[highvoltage]

Where are the quality mainstream acts for this generation?

Mainstream is dead IMO. People looking for "quality acts" no longer really look towards the top-40 lists. Most credible music festivals are booking more indie acts than they are top-40 acts.

The internet has paved the way for fragmented tastes. There is an accessibility to music that never existed before, which in turn has made it easier for "niche" or "unusual" acts to throw their music up online independently. That was a hell of a lot harder to do back before the advent of the Internet.

I also appreciate owning the "whole package" when it comes to buying an album. I think your conclusion is a bit narrow minded though; you lament the decline in physical album sales... but completely ignore the exposure that the Internet has granted to a broader variety of musicians and the choices that are now present for the listener. A service like Spotify lets me stream almost any full album I want at any time while I'm driving around. Why shouldn't that kind of convenience be celebrated?

You don't have to rely on some fat cat in a suit at a record company liking a band for you to be able to access their music easily anymore. You say that means people take music for granted, whereas I think it allows artists greater freedom to express themselves without the pressure of a record label demanding commercial success to guarantee distribution.

The Internet has been wonderful for music. JMO.

[wasted]

Its really the age of the narcissist.

[Amir]

Might as well plug my website here:

http:/www.resnate.com

This is an extremely early (read: shitty) prototype, but if you type in an artist's name, you'll get YouTube music results, merch from Amazon, and concerts from Songkick. Started teaching myself coding (HTML/CSS/Javascript) earlier in the year, now I'm teaching myself Rails so I can make a back-end database so people can have accounts, share music (links) with each other, integrate with Facebook, etc. The idea is that the more you share music, the more points you get, and the higher your 'level' (like Newbie/God/Frontman here, except I thought of Bigger Than Jesus for top level ). Then, once it goes commercial, people could spend the points on merch and gig tickets.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Amir

[wasted]

I really think music and movies should be free through your internet service provider. Especially old music. They should team up with all the broke labels and just do it.

[Bono]

You also got more immersed into music because you had access to less of it. It's a case of overabundance/too much of a good thing:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/life-changing-albums-downgraded-to-day-changing-2013080677948

It's satire, yes, but it makes a good point. Ten years ago, I would have probably bought MMLP2 and listened to it for months. Now I've got so many albums to go through I barely have the time for a couple of playthroughs!

Exactly my point. People don't care about music as much because of this. AND because the excitement of buying albums is gone. There is nothing exciting about clicking a button. Also with shorter attention spans comes a lesser quality product. If people still took the time to buy physical copies of the music they enjoy they'd appreciate it more. Doesn't matter how much music we have access to if you buy something concrete and physical something you can see, touch, feel, smell, your appreciation for it is naturally going to be greater. Just because we have more access to more music is no excuse to stop buying the physical album. It's simply laziness and disinterest. I buy physical copies of what I like and I put them in my car. I don't carry an mp3 player or ipod in my car for this reason alone. usually only between 4-7 cds at a time and never on shuffle. 1 disc plays at a time. It's a way for me to connect with entire albums and because of this my appreciation for bands and their music is higher than it will be for the kid who downloads thousands of songs. I listen to what I have and I make the connection with that music. Not 5000 songs on shuffle. Technology should allow us to appreciate what we love about music more unfortunately for the masses it's had the opposite effect. When you say you have barely enough time for a couple play throughs is that really because you don't have enough time or is it because your interest or appreciation for what you're listening to isn't all that great? Just an honest question and maybe something to look at. Up until yesterday Pearl Jam's lightning Bolt has been the only album I've listened to in the last few weeks. I've taken the time to get to know that album. People don't do that anymore, even when it comes to bands they "love"

I really think music and movies should be free through your internet service provider. Especially old music. They should team up with all the broke labels and just do it.

I don't agree with that. That'll make things worse. Nobody appreciates the things they get for free. Would you suggest all old books be given away for free?

[magisme]

There's plenty of great music out there. You just have to work a little harder to find it.

[Bono]

Where are the quality mainstream acts for this generation?

Mainstream is dead IMO. People looking for "quality acts" no longer really look towards the top-40 lists. Most credible music festivals are booking more indie acts than they are top-40 acts.

The internet has paved the way for fragmented tastes. There is an accessibility to music that never existed before, which in turn has made it easier for "niche" or "unusual" acts to throw their music up online independently. That was a hell of a lot harder to do back before the advent of the Internet.

I also appreciate owning the "whole package" when it comes to buying an album. I think your conclusion is a bit narrow minded though; you lament the decline in physical album sales... but completely ignore the exposure that the Internet has granted to a broader variety of musicians and the choices that are now present for the listener. A service like Spotify lets me stream almost any full album I want at any time while I'm driving around. Why shouldn't that kind of convenience be celebrated?

You don't have to rely on some fat cat in a suit at a record company liking a band for you to be able to access their music easily anymore. You say that means people take music for granted, whereas I think it allows artists greater freedom to express themselves without the pressure of a record label demanding commercial success to guarantee distribution.

The Internet has been wonderful for music. JMO.

No it isn't narrow minded and some of you are making an assumption that isn't true. I'm not ignoring the advantages of the internet and it's ability to make way more music much more accessible to way more people than in the past. The accessibility of music is a great thing. If I could only keep one internet site it would be youtube. I have nothing against advances in our ability to seek out and discover new music. My issue is with the ease at which people discard music and move on to the next thing. People don't cherish music the way they did in the past and in my opinion large part of that is because of their ability to OBTAIN the music without purchasing the piece of art itself. There is no denying that the person who buys the physical album is more likely to be much more immersed in and appreciate the music more than the person who clicks a button to download it.

This isn't about access to music. Access to music is a great thing. This is about how you obtain music. BIG BIG difference.

[wasted]

Yes, I got war and peace and frankenstein, dracula free.

By free, i dont mean free, you just pay a subscription and get access to a lot of stuff. Youve got netflix, amazon, just bundle it up like phone packages, people love that shit. Im saying music industry has to grow with the consumer not make them criminals. What do you want?

I want acess, i want it all in one place, its all over the place, i need to buy hulu, get stuff on amazon, maybe get blu rays somewhere else.

Warner music aol whoever solve the problem or people will just download everything.

[Bono]

There's plenty of great music out there. You just have to work a little harder to find it.

That in a nutshell is what's at the center of this. There has always been great music out there that didn't get the recognition it deserved. In the past however a lot more great music not only made it's way to the front but it was also pushed to the front and often times dominated the cultural landscape. Sure great music is still out there and real music fans will eventually find it. The industry doesn't want music fans anymore though. they just want mass consumers who will all buy the same thing. Then who will all buy the same thing again and again. The general public has bought into this system and thus time and effort doesn't need to be put into real artists. They can simply package fabricated bullshit knowing that people don't care enough to care thus creating an entire consumer base of people who will just buy anything that's put out because they don't care.

This generation doesn't have a soundtrack to their lives because 20 years down the road they're going to realize how empty and soulless the music in the mainstream is these days. That's sad. I

[wasted]

Culture has ended though, nobody has anything to say. Its all about the past now, especially rock and movies.