More important for the development of society: cars or fashion?

[OmarBradley]

So I got into a bit of a friendly argument with a friend. I was arguing that the development of the personal car in the early 20th century was a significantly more important advancement for civilization than progress in fashion (admittedly, something I do not know much about). He argued that humans got around fine before cars came along (trains, horses, boats, etc.), and that the car was not necessary for the advancement of society into its current state.

We agreed to disagree, but I still can't understand how he thinks his argument has any cogency. If anyone has any substantive arguments as to why fashion could be seen as more important than the development of the car, please elaborate, or just vote.

Side note: this is my first thread here.

So I leave it up to you MyGNR: cars or fashion?

Edited January 10, 2014 by OmarBradley

[arnold layne]

Bananas wouldn't be 39 cents a pound without the motorized vehicle. Cars: 1. Fashion: 0.

Also he may be gay. Not judging.

[Gracii Guns]

As a 'fashion person', I voted cars (representing transport in general).

The invention of the bicycle really mixed the gene pool for the first time, as before you could only really have babies with whoever you met in your village. When the bike came along, you could start having babies with someone from the next village.

Transport is fantastic for business, relationships and economics.

Fashion is an art form. An art with price points for all economic statuses, but the end product only benefits the person wearing it (and whoever made a profit from its sale). Cars benefit communities.

I'm interested in hearing the argument for fashion over cars.

[arnold layne]

When the bike came along, you could start having babies with someone from the next village.

[Redhead74]

As much as I'd love to say fashion, I'm with you: cars and transportation in general are significantly more important. Just the technology and development alone is leagues above. Fashion is just a luxury of wealthy nations that has actually done more to hinder and affect progress. Look at the exploitation that goes on in China, Bangladesh and India and you'll see that fashion (as opposed to just functional clothing) is detrimental in so many ways. But we all want our £30 pants and dresses and there's no changing it.

I hate to say that, but it's true.

[Gracii Guns]

When the bike came along, you could start having babies with someone from the next village.

The next village from mine is the lesbian capital of the UK, so no babies for me.

[arnold layne]

You're making it sound ridiculous.

Like some guy can roll in with a bicycle and simply yell "Let us bang!" and all the town women run naked to the town square.

If that were true, McCoy would have no reason to post here anymore.

[Redhead74]

You're making it sound ridiculous.

Like some guy can roll in with a bicycle and simply yell "Let us bang!" and all the town women run naked to the town square.

If that were true, McCoy would have no reason to post here anymore.

Arnold, she was making a simple analogy that transportation has opened up the possibilities and potential of things that we as humans value and which are integral to our existence and progress.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Voted for fashion, because we can't get on without proper clothing.

[OmarBradley]

Bananas wouldn't be 39 cents a pound without the motorized vehicle. Cars: 1. Fashion: 0.

Also he may be gay. Not judging.

He's straight. Our friend group jokes about it all the time, but he's had more girlfriends than most of us.

Fashion is an art form. An art with price points for all economic statuses, but the end product only benefits the person wearing it (and whoever made a profit from its sale). Cars benefit communities.

I'm interested in hearing the argument for fashion over cars.

Yeah I think that's an important point. Though like you said, I'm interested to know if their is a serious argument for fashion. Maybe fashion indirectly led to the invention of <something> or in an indirect way impacted a political or cultural movement that could possibly have more significance than cars. That's the sort of argument I'm looking for, but I just don't know enough about fashion to look it up myself.

As much as I'd love to say fashion, I'm with you: cars and transportation in general are significantly more important. Just the technology and development alone is leagues above. Fashion is just a luxury of wealthy nations that has actually done more to hinder and affect progress. Look at the exploitation that goes on in China, Bangladesh and India and you'll see that fashion (as opposed to just functional clothing) is detrimental in so many ways. But we all want our £30 pants and dresses and there's no changing it.

I hate to say that, but it's true.

Yes, that's actually an excellent point against the fashion argument, that it directly creates hardship for people. While my understanding of the motor industry is that it's pretty legitimate and regulated even in Japan, India, and China.

Edited January 11, 2014 by OmarBradley

[Gracii Guns]

It was a simple statement to explain a simple concept. The nation could suddenly travel twice the distance in half the time unit would take to walk anywhere. Meeting someone new and exciting would make courting fun, unlike marrying a girl from the village who you've known all your life.

McCoy doesn't need to stoop to such lows to find a girlfriend. I truly believe that McCoy is excellent boyfriend material for a wonderful woman who is unlucky enough to not have met him yet.

[Redhead74]

Fashion is an art form. An art with price points for all economic statuses, but the end product only benefits the person wearing it (and whoever made a profit from its sale). Cars benefit communities.

I'm interested in hearing the argument for fashion over cars.

Yeah I think that's an important point. Though like you said, I'm interested to know if their is a serious argument for fashion. Maybe fashion indirectly led to the invention of <something> or in an indirect way impacted a political or cultural movement that could possibly have more significance than cars. That's the sort of argument I'm looking for, but I just don't know enough about fashion to look it up myself.

The making of clothing led to the invention of the sewing machine and development of pattern making and the exploration of fabrics in all their beauty and diversity. Aside from the invention of tools and equipment needed to make the stuff, I see all the other developments as cultural though. Culture is a really important aspect of life and what it means to live in a society but I don't see that as being very indicative of the advancement of civilisation. The history of clothing is fascinating but at the end of the day it's just clothes. They keep you warm when you need it, but the style of ones pocket or the rise of a pair of pants, does little to alter that.

As much as I'd love to say fashion, I'm with you: cars and transportation in general are significantly more important. Just the technology and development alone is leagues above. Fashion is just a luxury of wealthy nations that has actually done more to hinder and affect progress. Look at the exploitation that goes on in China, Bangladesh and India and you'll see that fashion (as opposed to just functional clothing) is detrimental in so many ways. But we all want our £30 pants and dresses and there's no changing it.

I hate to say that, but it's true.

Yes, that's actually an excellent point against the fashion argument, that it directly creates hardship for people. While my understanding of the motor industry is that it's pretty legitimate and regulated even in Japan, India, and China.

The downfall of the motor industry has been the impact they have on the environment. So kind of equal in relation to the exploitation of people in the garment industry. But the fashion industry has a significant impact on the environment as well with all the fast throw away fashion and the cargo required to export the product around the world. So that's 2 minus points for fashion and 1 minus point for cars.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Redhead74

[AxlsAngel]

Definitely cars.

[Chewbacca]

Cars, of course. With them, countries got smaller and it was possible to accelerate our production -and delivery it too, of course.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Chewbacca

[DieselDaisy]

I do not like cars. Do not like them. When I was in high school all of the chavs started reading max power. I discovered guitars instead. When kids were talking about cars, I was talking about Seymour Duncan pickups. It is how things occurred. Never had an interest in them.

But, to reply to the point, I have to mention trains here. Trains changed everything. Trains created the American mid west. Trains connected Britain's industrial revolution. Trains made Carolina 'King Cotton', appear in London markets. Rhodes dreamed of a train line between the med and Cape town. The Train was king.

[Redhead74]

Fashion helps mould peoples morals, low cut skirts and bikini's did more for changing the morals of society than any car did.

Do you mean a short skirt or a low cut top? Coz I've never heard of a low cut skirt before.

I would interpret that as a long skirt, which didn't have much impact on people's morals.

[arnold layne]

I do not like cars. Do not like them. When I was in high school all of the chavs started reading max power. I discovered guitars instead. When kids were talking about cars, I was talking about Seymour Duncan pickups. It is how things occurred. Never had an interest in them.

But, to reply to the point, I have to mention trains here. Trains changed everything. Trains created the American mid west. Trains connected Britain's industrial revolution. Trains made Carolina 'King Cotton', appear in London markets. Rhodes dreamed of a train line between the med and Cape town. The Train was king.

I hate driving. Can't stand it. I only drive if I'm earning money or buying food. Any other reason and I try to walk.

I swear driving makes me want to murder everyone on the road. Road rage is slowly killing me.

[Redhead74]

Fashion helps mould peoples morals, low cut skirts and bikini's did more for changing the morals of society than any car did.

Do you mean a short skirt or a low cut top? Coz I've never heard of a low cut skirt before.

I would interpret that as a long skirt, which didn't have much impact on people's morals.

Im not sure of the exact correct fashionista term, but what ever shows off the most flesh. I especially like things that show off a womans gap (if thats the right term) you know when you can see through the little triangle gap between her legs.

Love the gap too, but that's going to be a damn short skirt to show that off.

[The Real McCoy]

It was a simple statement to explain a simple concept. The nation could suddenly travel twice the distance in half the time unit would take to walk anywhere. Meeting someone new and exciting would make courting fun, unlike marrying a girl from the village who you've known all your life.

McCoy doesn't need to stoop to such lows to find a girlfriend. I truly believe that McCoy is excellent boyfriend material for a wonderful woman who is unlucky enough to not have met him yet.

Thank you, Gracii! I appreciate that very much!

[Guest Len B'stard]

Fashion, all day long. Cars are functional, fashion is like art, its representative of where society is or where it's going. Fashion communicates, fashion informs, fashion defines. Fashion, fashion all day long. Quite apart from anything, cars can even enter into the overall umbrella of the fashion thing. Fashion is the art that everybody is in tune with, fashion leads humanity.

Edited January 11, 2014 by sugaraylen

[luciusfunk]

I do not like cars. Do not like them. When I was in high school all of the chavs started reading max power. I discovered guitars instead. When kids were talking about cars, I was talking about Seymour Duncan pickups. It is how things occurred. Never had an interest in them.

But, to reply to the point, I have to mention trains here. Trains changed everything. Trains created the American mid west. Trains connected Britain's industrial revolution. Trains made Carolina 'King Cotton', appear in London markets. Rhodes dreamed of a train line between the med and Cape town. The Train was king.

I hate driving. Can't stand it. I only drive if I'm earning money or buying food. Any other reason and I try to walk.

I swear driving makes me want to murder everyone on the road. Road rage is slowly killing me.

Be glad you don't live in Texas. The rain hits and people start crashing into each other. Snow or ice? Better stay in or you'll get hit by some retard who thinks it's smart to drive fast.

[OmarBradley]

I hate driving. Can't stand it. I only drive if I'm earning money or buying food. Any other reason and I try to walk.

I swear driving makes me want to murder everyone on the road. Road rage is slowly killing me.

Try some track driving or racing; driving's a lot more fun when you're going fast and you're low to the ground.

Fashion, all day long. Cars are functional, fashion is like art, its representative of where society is or where it's going. Fashion communicates, fashion informs, fashion defines. Fashion, fashion all day long. Quite apart from anything, cars can even enter into the overall umbrella of the fashion thing. Fashion is the art that everybody is in tune with, fashion leads humanity.

I see what you're saying, I still think the car is a more important direct advancement for society, but... "fashion leads humanity" I'm not sure I could agree with that. I don't think any 1 thing leads humanity. I could see fashion as being a reflection of a particular culture during a particular time, or even influencing inventions and movements (indirectly) as Red mentioned, but I'm not sure any strong argument in favor of fashion being more important for the development of society has been posited here yet.

[Guest Len B'stard]

"fashion leads humanity" I'm not sure I could agree with that. I don't think any 1 thing leads humanity.

In my defence I didn't say Fashion alone leads humanity.

[The Sandman]

Fashion?!

[Dazey]

I do not like cars. Do not like them. When I was in high school all of the chavs started reading max power. I discovered guitars instead. When kids were talking about cars, I was talking about Seymour Duncan pickups. It is how things occurred. Never had an interest in them.

Agreed 100%. I once spent an evening in the company of some "car people" in the pub and they must've been the most boring bunch of bastards I've ever encountered in all my born days.