Does Axl even want to release any more music? Or is that just a collective delusion from us diehards?

[Amir]

This idea that a band like GnR could offer up an album and, in this day and age, where music and record companies are in such a shit state, that they'd REFUSE a GnR album is just absolute bullshit. The fact of the matter is GnR are a HUGE name, you will always go at least platinum with em, no matter how fucking naff it is, the sheer amount of records that would be sold just based on the fact that it's a GnR album would push the shit through. It's not as if any new offering would carry that Chi Dem weight of 'the album that cost 16 basquillion dollars to make!', thats where they'd have a right to object but really, come on, Axl could release an albums worth of Yoko yodelling and it'd still sell fuckin' copies, the international market, south american, europe, asia, they'd fucking rake it in. It's all about your level of investment and recouping that shit....so from a record company perspective, what have they got to lose? There is literally no level upon which refusing a GnR release would be beneficial to a record company.

ChiDem didn't go platinum, 50 Cent and Trent Reznor have both complained about not getting support at Interscope, and Axl gave them years and millions of dollars of headache. Yes, it would be beneficial to them if they just dumped the album with no time or money spent on promoting it, but Axl wouldn't let that happen, he doesn't want it to be treated like some abortion. A new Greatest Hits record might sell well, but not new music without Slash.

[Guest Len B'stard]

This idea that a band like GnR could offer up an album and, in this day and age, where music and record companies are in such a shit state, that they'd REFUSE a GnR album is just absolute bullshit. The fact of the matter is GnR are a HUGE name, you will always go at least platinum with em, no matter how fucking naff it is, the sheer amount of records that would be sold just based on the fact that it's a GnR album would push the shit through. It's not as if any new offering would carry that Chi Dem weight of 'the album that cost 16 basquillion dollars to make!', thats where they'd have a right to object but really, come on, Axl could release an albums worth of Yoko yodelling and it'd still sell fuckin' copies, the international market, south american, europe, asia, they'd fucking rake it in. It's all about your level of investment and recouping that shit....so from a record company perspective, what have they got to lose? There is literally no level upon which refusing a GnR release would be beneficial to a record company.

ChiDem didn't go platinum, 50 Cent and Trent Reznor have both complained about not getting support at Interscope, and Axl gave them years and millions of dollars of headache. Yes, it would be beneficial to them if they just dumped the album with no time or money spent on promoting it, but Axl wouldn't let that happen, he doesn't want it to be treated like some abortion. A new Greatest Hits record might sell well, but not new music without Slash.

Did it not, really? Even if it did though, there'd still be way too much money in it and if Axl wouldn't let it happen then thats not the record company refusing, thats Axl wanting it to be treated like it's the follow up to Abbey Road, which is unrealistic and silly. As far as Trent and 50, with all due respect, these are just artists that are obselete now and using this shit as an excuse to sound as if they're like, still up there. Look at 50 for instance, he's just someone thats ridden that one big release and been a sharp businessman and made himself a few quid. He's even gone on record as saying that he won't release the album unless there's some kind of huge plan around it's release, meaning he doesn't just wanna put it out there and have the audience just take it as musical output, he wants some huge selling scheme. He's always had an inflated view of his own position, look when he embarassed himself with that 'If Kanye sells more than me i'll quit music' shit.

The thing with 50 is that 50 knows his limitations and he understands that his relevance is floundering so why bother releasing an album, he's making shitloads down other avenues so just hang it out until either a scheme appears or it's just hyped into this big bad boogeyman of an album that enough people have been curious about for long enough to warrant a release.

In terms of their money and the mileage in it record companies are not stupid, all these bastards could release their shit and have it out there if they wanted and I don't mean on GG Allins label either, on a good solid name label but deep down, at the heart of it is a lack of faith in their own music and it's potential to keep their swimming pools heated and the lobster and caviar on their dinner menus.

Lets face it if this album don't sell well then 50 ain't long for the glue factory and he knows it...and so does Axl.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

thats Axl wanting it to be treated like it's the follow up to Abbey Road, which is unrealistic and silly.

Lets face it if this album don't sell well then 50 ain't long for the glue factory and he knows it...and so does Axl.

Axl? Unrealistic?!

Haven't you proven my point with that last sentence, though? Axl probably knows in his heart of hearts that ChiDem II wouldn't sell well. In terms of shifting records, unforutnately enough, his best bet is DJ Ashba, because for whatever reason, a lot of teenage girls think he's an artistic genius, and my guess is that's why Axl wanted him on board (someone more commercial than Finck).

[Guest Len B'stard]

thats Axl wanting it to be treated like it's the follow up to Abbey Road, which is unrealistic and silly.

Lets face it if this album don't sell well then 50 ain't long for the glue factory and he knows it...and so does Axl.

Axl? Unrealistic?!

Haven't you proven my point with that last sentence, though? Axl probably knows in his heart of hearts that ChiDem II wouldn't sell well. In terms of shifting records, unforutnately enough, his best bet is DJ Ashba, because for whatever reason, a lot of teenage girls think he's an artistic genius, and my guess is that's why Axl wanted him on board (someone more commercial than Finck).

Yeah but there's 'do well' in the sense of furthering Axls legacy and artistic relevance (which is what i was talking about with that last sentence) and then there's 'do well' as in making enough money for the record companies for it to be worth releasing, which is two different things.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

thats Axl wanting it to be treated like it's the follow up to Abbey Road, which is unrealistic and silly.

Lets face it if this album don't sell well then 50 ain't long for the glue factory and he knows it...and so does Axl.

Axl? Unrealistic?!

Haven't you proven my point with that last sentence, though? Axl probably knows in his heart of hearts that ChiDem II wouldn't sell well. In terms of shifting records, unforutnately enough, his best bet is DJ Ashba, because for whatever reason, a lot of teenage girls think he's an artistic genius, and my guess is that's why Axl wanted him on board (someone more commercial than Finck).

Yeah but there's 'do well' in the sense of furthering Axls legacy and artistic relevance (which is what i was talking about with that last sentence) and then there's 'do well' as in making enough money for the record companies for it to be worth releasing, which is two different things.

Axl thought he was doing well by his and the GNR name by releasing ChiDem. I thought so, too, but I know I'm in a minority, most people consider that album a disgrace to the GNR name and laughed at Axl for spending so long on it. Why would he release another album if he's just expecting more ridicule? A lot of people think he's a sucker for what his hanger-ons and entourage say, but I think Axl's smarter than that, at least since he saw what happened after the release of ChiDem. As it is now, he can just tinker on the songs he's got in his vault forever, perfecting them to his own standard, content that he likes them at least.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Yeah, you make a fair point there actually but that again comes down to Axl not putting shit out there, as opposed to the record company refusing a GnR release and thats pretty much what i been saying.

I think we (as in GnR fans, not me necessarily) are like, tryna will Axl into being an actual functioning artist and to be honest I don't think the shits gonna happen.

This much I can tell you as sure as shit and if I'm still around or I still know you in however many years time you can hold me to this, we ain't gettin a new album, not for a great long time, as in years and years and if and when we do get something, it'll be the last.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Kapoink]

Axl once said that he did'nt spend years and years in the studio to not release new music ! ...lets wait for this tour if they play chineseII songs ...if not i don't think they release anything soon and maybe never...but when they do the album wil come out ... But he is getting older and i don't see him touring like the stones ...so maybe in time he only releases albums without touring....just a tought....

[Amir]

Yeah, you make a fair point there actually but that again comes down to Axl not putting shit out there, as opposed to the record company refusing a GnR release and thats pretty much what i been saying.

I think we (as in GnR fans, not me necessarily) are like, tryna will Axl into being an actual functioning artist and to be honest I don't think the shits gonna happen.

This much I can tell you as sure as shit and if I'm still around or I still know you in however many years time you can hold me to this, we ain't gettin a new album, not for a great long time, as in years and years and if and when we do get something, it'll be the last.

I think Axl said he'd like to get one more album out in his lifetime in that USA Today interview. Which to me lines up with what you say: most likely in 5-10 years we'll get one last album, that'll be it. I reckon touring will be done by then as well. Which is sad

[Guest Len B'stard]

Yeah, you make a fair point there actually but that again comes down to Axl not putting shit out there, as opposed to the record company refusing a GnR release and thats pretty much what i been saying.

I think we (as in GnR fans, not me necessarily) are like, tryna will Axl into being an actual functioning artist and to be honest I don't think the shits gonna happen.

This much I can tell you as sure as shit and if I'm still around or I still know you in however many years time you can hold me to this, we ain't gettin a new album, not for a great long time, as in years and years and if and when we do get something, it'll be the last.

I think Axl said he'd like to get one more album out in his lifetime in that USA Today interview. Which to me lines up with what you say: most likely in 5-10 years we'll get one last album, that'll be it. I reckon touring will be done by then as well. Which is sad

Ahhh, i dunno, he's had a fair ol' innings, played some blinding fuckin' shows, broke records with his shit, released at least one bona fide earth-shattering classic and two stellar follow ups, alls well that ends well, if i was Axl I could feel OK closing the book after another album, a good solid one and feel like i kinda put my marker down, had my time and then gone fishing when the lights go down and all the children have gone home, I could live with that

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

Yeah, you make a fair point there actually but that again comes down to Axl not putting shit out there, as opposed to the record company refusing a GnR release and thats pretty much what i been saying.

I think we (as in GnR fans, not me necessarily) are like, tryna will Axl into being an actual functioning artist and to be honest I don't think the shits gonna happen.

This much I can tell you as sure as shit and if I'm still around or I still know you in however many years time you can hold me to this, we ain't gettin a new album, not for a great long time, as in years and years and if and when we do get something, it'll be the last.

I think Axl said he'd like to get one more album out in his lifetime in that USA Today interview. Which to me lines up with what you say: most likely in 5-10 years we'll get one last album, that'll be it. I reckon touring will be done by then as well. Which is sad

Ahhh, i dunno, he's had a fair ol' innings, played some blinding fuckin' shows, broke records with his shit, released at least one bona fide earth-shattering classic and two stellar follow ups, alls well that ends well, if i was Axl I could feel OK closing the book after another album, a good solid one and feel like i kinda put my marker down, had my time and then gone fishing when the lights go down and all the children have gone home, I could live with that

This image is all I can think of now when I think of Axl's legacy:

There he is, watching Mick and Keef, with a grown man dressed like that standing next to him I mean, he should be up there guesting with The Stones, they'll play with Katy Perry and Gwen Stefani but not Axl?! His legacy is still pretty good, and I'm glad he made Chinese Democracy, but all these "what-ifs" and "could'ves"...

[Guest Len B'stard]

Y'know, thats the second time you've made mention of that pic and how it makes you sad to behold, why man, he's just a fella at a show. Is it the fact that he's in a crowd at all or...? Just curious.

[Amir]

Y'know, thats the second time you've made mention of that pic and how it makes you sad to behold, why man, he's just a fella at a show. Is it the fact that he's in a crowd at all or...? Just curious.

Because I always think Axl should be on the same level (figuratively, not literally). Axl to me is my favourite frontman, and I believe he had it in him to be one of the all-time greats. Maybe it is just him enjoying a show, but it's one of those things where I can't help but look at it and think, he could be higher than that. Nothing wrong with being in the pit, hats off to him for not being a prima donna, but I just feel like he's been abandoned by all his one-time peers. Like, Steven Tyler was supposed to guest at the Hollywood UCAP show in 2012 but didn't turn up, but he'll play with Slash for Howard Stern's birthday? I just feel like Axl's no longer respected by any of these guys, and it's a damn shame.

Now this... this is bad-ass Axl

8 years ago. How much has changed...

[Guest Len B'stard]

Thing about having the personality of a cunt is that when times are bad then you find out who your mates really are. It makes sense that the Micks and Keefs and Tylers etc wanted something to do with Axl when his star was bright but, if commonly accepted notions of his personality are accurate, then why would those same peers give a fuck about being around him now? Lets face it, back in the day he meant money to them, it was good business, touring with Aerosmith, popping up with The Stones to do Salt of the Earth. And on a person to person level it ain't even about the money aspect, thats just in terms of collaborating with him, on a person to person level though you can have totally shrunk in terms of your popularity but your peers'll still be matey cuz you were a cool guy, I never got the impression from any of the bands in and around GnR, big bands etc that made mention of em, i never sensed a love or a respect for Axl in that. For Slash and some of the other guys yes but rarely for Axl.

Lets face it, The Stones like wheeling people onstage that remind people that, despite their free bus passes, The Stones are still loved and relevant and have a place in contemporary society. Take any Stones era from any day and their onstage thingies, they always kinda wheel out the cool kiddies of the day, don't they?

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

Lets face it, back in the day he meant money to them, it was good business, touring with Aerosmith, popping up with The Stones to do Salt of the Earth.

I never got the impression from any of the bands in and around GnR, big bands etc that made mention of em, i never sensed a love or a respect for Axl in that. For Slash and some of the other guys yes but rarely for Axl.

Lets face it, The Stones like wheeling people onstage that remind people that, despite their free bus passes, The Stones are still loved and relevant and have a place in contemporary society. Take any Stones era from any day and their onstage thingies, they always kinda wheel out the cool kiddies of the day, don't they?

Don't disagree with any of these points, I just find it all sad. The only person who seems to want to work with Axl these days is Sebastian Bach.

"When he did Civil War, I thought he was going to become a statesman of rock n’ roll, but instead he became the court jester.” - Alan Niven

I still get excited to see Axl live, but I wish there was something more than nostalgia touring. As recently as 2010 he had a fire in him. While I think the failure of ChiDem did take its toll on Axl (see the weight gain between '07 and '09), I think it was the failure to release a follow-up and all the legal battles with Azoff and his subsequent defeat that finally made Axl give up. Except I hope it's not final. You never know.

[stumbleine]

i actually went out and bought Arctic Monkeys AM album.

it's pretty good.

i don't think any songs with Axl on lead exists and if they do

we will see them after he died.

it's time to move on.

[Axl_morris]

He might not share the stage with the big names but he does socialise with them. Golden globes, the party in new york when he was heard talking to leo di craprio and sean penn and the recent photo of Axl and steven tyler etc.

Axl was the katy perry back in the day when he done salt on the earth. I bet the stones couldn't name you one GNR song back then, just wanted someone relevent at that time on stage.

To me, i think Axl achieved far too much so early in his career. He was top of the world when Use your illusion was released at 29 years old. He done it and can never top that. He will not compete with his past. Think of him being retired but being self employed on the side just touring here and there to keep the band ticking over - he is not bothered about chasing a career/promotion or competing in the charts. He done that 20 years ago.

Maybe in 25 years katy perry will standing in the crowd.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Axl_morris

[Guest Len B'stard]

Its easy as a fan to sit there and turn your favorite whatsisname into a greek tragedy but the truth is he's just a guy thats done with that thing, value as a human being has very little to do with recorded output y'know? If you think about it, we know so little about famous people really, their joys and loves and likes and dislikes, if i had a choice between a releasing shitloads of quality stuff but miserable Axl and a happy but ain't releasing shit Axl, i'd go for the second option, it's only music end of the day and we're talking about a man in his early 50s with a fair bit of living and loving to do. It's a really hard hustle, this rock n roll game (as my extensive experience leads me to believe! ), it's like that things that Indians said about photographs and how they take your soul away, they really do, don't they insofar as we came to know Axl through pictures in magazines and ideas in our head about what Axl (or Guns) is/are and 30 years down the line we're kinda holding him to those pictures and the resultant impressions, even to the point of feeling sad and somehow let down when Axl doesn't live up to them, we really pile some shit on these boyses heads eh?

To me, i think Axl achieved far too much so early in his career. He was top of the world when Use your illusion was released at 29 years old. He done it and can never top that.

He might've been in terms of the money but he wasn't in terms of respect from his peers, not by 91, oh no, a little lad called Kurt happened upon the music scene at that time.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

Its easy as a fan to sit there and turn your favorite whatsisname into a greek tragedy but the truth is he's just a guy thats done with that thing, value as a human being has very little to do with recorded output y'know? If you think about it, we know so little about famous people really, their joys and loves and likes and dislikes, if i had a choice between a releasing shitloads of quality stuff but miserable Axl and a happy but ain't releasing shit Axl, i'd go for the second option, it's only music end of the day and we're talking about a man in his early 50s with a fair bit of living and loving to do. It's a really hard hustle, this rock n roll game (as my extensive experience leads me to believe! ), it's like that things that Indians said about photographs and how they take your soul away, they really do, don't they insofar as we came to know Axl through pictures in magazines and ideas in our head about what Axl (or Guns) is/are and 30 years down the line we're kinda holding him to those pictures and the resultant impressions, even to the point of feeling sad and somehow let down when Axl doesn't live up to them, we really pile some shit on these boyses heads eh?

To me, i think Axl achieved far too much so early in his career. He was top of the world when Use your illusion was released at 29 years old. He done it and can never top that.

He might've been in terms of the money but he wasn't in terms of respect from his peers, not by 91, oh no, a little lad called Kurt happened upon the music scene at that time.

Not denying that a lot of us fans build it all up into some epic drama in our heads, but it seems that for the longest while it was that way in Axl's head, too. With comments like "I have traversed a treacherous sea of horrors to be with you here tonight", "Round 1", and songs of defiance like Madagascar and Scraped. Maybe it is healthier for the man now to rest on his laurels, maybe he's at peace now? I don't know.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I have traversed a treacherous sea of horrors to be with you here tonight

Gotta love that though...and i mean it in the least piss taking sense Just the language of it is beautiful, like fuckin' Alexander coming back, having conquered the fuckin' world or something, beautiful, love it. The sting of it is removed somewhat though by the fact that we all know he was at home the whole time watching telly and eating all the pies out of the pantry Still, sounds brilliant, doesn't it, 'traversed a sea of horrors', brilliant

[Lio]

I have traversed a treacherous sea of horrors to be with you here tonight

Gotta love that though...and i mean it in the least piss taking sense Just the language of it is beautiful, like fuckin' Alexander coming back, having conquered the fuckin' world or something, beautiful, love it. The sting of it is removed somewhat though by the fact that we all know he was at home the whole time watching telly and eating all the pies out of the pantry Still, sounds brilliant, doesn't it, 'traversed a sea of horrors', brilliant

It's true. Axl loves a bit of drama. It is a brilliant quote, and I hope to use it myself someday. (Arriving late at a party because of the traffic, for example )

[Amir]

I have traversed a treacherous sea of horrors to be with you here tonight

Gotta love that though...and i mean it in the least piss taking sense Just the language of it is beautiful, like fuckin' Alexander coming back, having conquered the fuckin' world or something, beautiful, love it. The sting of it is removed somewhat though by the fact that we all know he was at home the whole time watching telly and eating all the pies out of the pantry Still, sounds brilliant, doesn't it, 'traversed a sea of horrors', brilliant

It's obvious from his taste in films like Cool Hand Luke, Kundun and The Dark Knight Rises, that he still has this sense of battles of good vs. evil, right against wrong. In the 2012 Tour Programme he divides living life in to either living in fear or out of love. You can't imagine someone like Mick or Robert Plant saying stuff like that. Not saying they don't care for their art, but Axl just fucking loses himself right in it (or at least he used to). First time I heard Madagascar, I just thought... this is fucking epic and brilliant. For the longest time I was of a similar mindset, all those songs off ChiDem really spoke to me. I still have a little bit of that in me, but nowhere near as much as I used to, and while I still like songs like Madagascar and TWAT, I can't lose myself in them any more, I don't get those euphoric highs when I listen to Bucket's solos or hear Axl's anguished screams.

EDIT: That's another part of it, too, you can tell Axl doesn't have the anguish in him any more to do a song like TWAT justice. Maybe for Axl to be happy we have to deal with sub-par performances. He did say in the USA Today interview he was working on delivering the goods without being "kamikaze" about it, I don't know if that's possible, though.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Amir

[Guest Len B'stard]

I have trouble reconciling all that with the tales of what a cold blooded viper of a businessman he is. I'd be lying to you if i thought of Axl as passionate in that regard. I do get what you mean about Maddy and TWAT though, i still feel the same way about em when i sling em on. If anything actually, this site and hearing Chi Dem sung up so unrealistically kinda colours my perception of what is actually a good album, it's not awful or anything.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

I have trouble reconciling all that with the tales of what a cold blooded viper of a businessman he is. I'd be lying to you if i thought of Axl as passionate in that regard. I do get what you mean about Maddy and TWAT though, i still feel the same way about em when i sling em on.

If he was that much of a cold blooded businessman, he'd be touring with Slash right now. He knows he'd be making 10x as much money. And I still think Slash would be up for it.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I have trouble reconciling all that with the tales of what a cold blooded viper of a businessman he is. I'd be lying to you if i thought of Axl as passionate in that regard. I do get what you mean about Maddy and TWAT though, i still feel the same way about em when i sling em on.

If he was that much of a cold blooded businessman, he'd be touring with Slash right now. He knows he'd be making 10x as much money. And I still think Slash would be up for it.

OR...if he was that passionate to begin with he wouldn't've engineered, knowingly or unknowingly, the demise of that particular band which was up to that point and still is the zenith of his creative output. Or would've done everything in his power to keep that unit going.

Edited February 24, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Amir]

I have trouble reconciling all that with the tales of what a cold blooded viper of a businessman he is. I'd be lying to you if i thought of Axl as passionate in that regard. I do get what you mean about Maddy and TWAT though, i still feel the same way about em when i sling em on.

If he was that much of a cold blooded businessman, he'd be touring with Slash right now. He knows he'd be making 10x as much money. And I still think Slash would be up for it.

OR...if he was that passionate to begin with he wouldn't've engineered, knowingly or unknowingly, the demise of that particular band which was up to that point and still is the zenith of his creative output. Or would've done everything in his power to keep that unit going.

According to him it was more the latter. It's all "he says, she says" to us on the outside, I don't think we'll ever know.