The Ukraine Situation

[magisme]

I think the fact that they can't find a decent job is part of their gripe, no? Come on, no one's saying the next Plato was coming out of those groups, but they weren't completely full of shit - and they were considerably less full of shit than our elected leaders so.....

[Guest Len B'stard]

I got respect for em, especially in the context of this country, we've a history of taking to the streets for our rights, i just think that in amongst the genuine people that have an axe to grind are a bunch of fuckin' phoneys and wannabes that latch onto it cuz they think it makes them all left field and different and quirky or whatever the fuck the fashionable term of the day is for a cunt.

You can usually tell em apart easily though, the genuine ones are your regular well adjusted woman or man that have been fucked over...the phoneys tend to be ones that, along with this particular movement, are interested in any and every weird silly fuckin'...thing imagineable from the stars and quasars and lazers, fuckin'...the cosmos, tarot cards, crystals, Wicca, just aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany and every fuckin' weird kooky fuckin' thing they can think off to show the world what a fuckin' trailblazer they are...and they are the worst advertisement and the most fundamentally damaging people when they align themselves with a genuine cause or whatever cuz everybody else ends up getting tarred with their brush and the entire thing just becomes laughable. Shame.

The best way to de-fang or neutralise any new movement or whatever, in the context of like, peoples ideas of it, is to make a joke out of it, to ridicule it. Every new cultural movement (not saying that any of these protests is a cultural movement, just an example) that appears a threat to some kind of existing established structure, in terms of the approach to it is to dis-credit it...and ridicule is one of the ways that this is done and the fuckin' broomstick brigade would do well to come to terms with this because they effectively damage anything they align themselves with.

Edited March 3, 2014 by sugaraylen

[netcat]

Seems Putin is staying quiet, but sending more troops into Crimea.

I suppose there is a train of thought that may see this as he is just protecting his strategic Naval base, realizing the unrest that may erupt in neighboring

areas.

Too simple?

Either way, even though Kiev is a long way away, stay safe.

thanks

Unfortunately, i don't think that's the case. Maybe he's still not 100% sure if he wants to be the next Saddam Hussein or not?

You know, i've been thinking... those US and EU tv-channels and other media, who spread false information about Ukraine... they are just shitty journalists, that can't be bothered checking simple facts, or they take money from Putin's Ministry of Propaganda? Or both?

Today our Defence Minister made an official statement, saying he has an information that Russian security services are planning to hold a terrorist attack against their own soldiers in Crimea and then blame it on "Ukrainian fascists". it would be very much Putin style. but now after Ukrainian party made a statement, i hope it won't happen

[Guest Len B'stard]

I saw Wladimir Klitschko in the papers this morning saying 'how can i worry about the world heavyweight championship when people in Ukraine are suffering' what a beautiful thing to say Especially in light of the comments from the likes of Mayweather like 'why should i donate money to Africa, what has Africa ever done for me?'. Shows your fuckin' class, doesn't it Floyd?

Tell me netcat, are the Klitschkos a big noise over there, do they actually do anything worthwhile or is it some kinda prestige thing?

[netcat]

When the protests just started, i thought he was full of shit. But in the last couple of months he gained a great respect among our people. He was there on the streets with us protesting, standing against the riot police and the criminal gangs sponsored by our previous government. He was threatened by criminal bosses and by ex-president Yanukovich, who even issued a decree for his arrest. But he didn't give up. I think he's the man.

maybe i'll post you a video later, if i manage to find it

oh but that's Vitaly Klitschko, not Vladimir

Edited March 3, 2014 by netcat

[Guest Len B'stard]

Thats amazing to hear in this day and age, it really is, I've never been fond of em as boxers but thats amazing to hear, he was out on the streets and everything? God bless him

[arnold layne]

I don't like to say much about these types of issues because I refuse to believe CNN, MSNC, CBS, Fox etc are telling the entire story either.

Just hope we can resolve our issues.

[bran]

I don't like to say much about these types of issues because I refuse to believe CNN, MSNC, CBS, Fox etc are telling the entire story either.

Just hope we can resolve our issues.

you're smart

[Ace Nova]

The more I think about this situation, the more troublesome it is. Putin's real reason for the invasion is territorial gain (alla Saddam Hussein)...and his official reason is almost as bad "To protect Russian speaking people"....same reason Milosevic had for what he did years ago.

So (philosophically) we have a combination of two of the most infamous leaders of the past twenty years...leading a country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world....and he just invaded a sovereign country.

Anyone else troubled by this?

Edited March 3, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Guest Len B'stard]

The more I think about this situation, the more troublesome it is. Putin's real reason for the invasion is territrial gain (alla Sadaam Husein)...and his official reason is almost as bad "To protect Russian speaking people"....same reason Milosovich had for what he did years ago.

So (philosophically) we have a combination of two of the most infamous leaders of the past twenty years...leading a country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world....and he just invaded a sovereign country.

Anyone else troubled by this?

God, fuckin' hell, heads up, the yanks have got the bit between their teeth again This is how it starts 'Y'know Chuck, when it's all said and done he's like that Saddam Insane, isn't he?'

Edited March 3, 2014 by sugaraylen

[arnold layne]

Anyone else troubled by this?

To be honest, not really.

But like I said I don't know the whole story.

[Lio]

The more I think about this situation, the more troublesome it is. Putin's real reason for the invasion is territrial gain (alla Sadaam Husein)...and his official reason is almost as bad "To protect Russian speaking people"....same reason Milosovich had for what he did years ago.

So (philosophically) we have a combination of two of the most infamous leaders of the past twenty years...leading a country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world....and he just invaded a sovereign country.

Anyone else troubled by this?

I am. Don't get it either. Russia invades Ukraine and now puts out an ultimatum: if the Ukranian troops don't retreat (from their own country ?) in less than ten hours, there'll be a military attack.

Can anyone explain that ?

[Ace Nova]

God, fuckin' hell, heads up, the yanks have got the bit between their teeth again This is how it starts 'Y'know Chuck, when it's all said and done he's like that Saddam Insane, isn't he?'

I meant his mental reasoning is similar to both those leaders...Saddam invaded Kuwait for territorial gain and Milosevic did it for ethnic reasons....Putin is proudly and openly doing it for both....it's outrageous.

I am. Don't get it either. Russia invades Ukraine and now puts out an ultimatum: if the Ukranian troops don't retreat (from their own country ?) in less than ten hours, there'll be a military attack.

Can anyone explain that ?

I just can't comprehend how the rest of the world isn't going absolutely crazy over this. If the U.S. were to invade Canada and give their military the same ultimatum, the rest of the world would have a meltdown.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I meant his mental reasoning is similar to both those leaders...Saddam invaded Kuwait for territorial gain and Milosevic did it for ethnic reasons....Putin is proudly and openly doing it for both....it's outrageous.

I know what you was saying, i was just teasing mate

[Lio]

God, fuckin' hell, heads up, the yanks have got the bit between their teeth again This is how it starts 'Y'know Chuck, when it's all said and done he's like that Saddam Insane, isn't he?'

I meant his mental reasoning is similar to both those leaders...Saddam invaded Kuwait for territorial gain and Milosevic did it for ethnic reasons....Putin is proudly and openly doing it for both....it's outrageous.

I am. Don't get it either. Russia invades Ukraine and now puts out an ultimatum: if the Ukranian troops don't retreat (from their own country ?) in less than ten hours, there'll be a military attack.

Can anyone explain that ?

I just can't comprehend how the rest of the world isn't going absolutely crazy over this. If the U.S. were to invade Canada and give their military the same ultimatum, the rest of the world would have a meltdown.

Well, apparently Russia is now denying that it gave the ultimatum. In Europe, they're calling this the worst European crisis this century or since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[Facekicker]

The more I think about this situation, the more troublesome it is. Putin's real reason for the invasion is territorial gain (alla Saddam Husein)...and his official reason is almost as bad "To protect Russian speaking people"....same reason Milosevic had for what he did years ago.

So (philosophically) we have a combination of two of the most infamous leaders of the past twenty years...leading a country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world....and he just invaded a sovereign country.

Anyone else troubled by this?

What is your understanding of how the people on the ground in Crimea are reacting to this move by Russia. What do you understand of their reaction to the protesters in Kiev?

[Ace Nova]

What is your understanding of how the people on the ground in Crimea are reacting to this move by Russia. What do you understand of their reaction to the protesters in Kiev?

First off, it's irrelevant. Crimea is not a country, the Ukraine is. It's the Ukraine's military that will have to protect Crimea against invasion....not just Crimea's people. Second, even if it were relevant, it should be handled internally by the Ukraine government. Russia has absolutely ZERO reasoning to invade a sovereign nation.

[shades]

dangerous precedent,

if it were any other country invading a sovereign nation the world order would act.

So

the world order has to act.

Exactly what that action is will be directly related to the size of Obamas resolve.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/microphone-picks-up-obamas-private-exchange-with-medvedev/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

It's been almost a year, and no one ever pressed for an explanation,

Maybe these two have already discussed this latest "crisis"

[downzy]

dangerous precedent,

if it were any other country invading a sovereign nation the world order would act.

So

the world order has to act.

Exactly what that action is will be directly related to the size of Obamas resolve.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/microphone-picks-up-obamas-private-exchange-with-medvedev/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

It's been almost a year, and no one ever pressed for an explanation,

Maybe these two have already discussed this latest "crisis"

Hey Shades, do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up about how everything is Obama's fault. It's not the point of this thread.

I'm sure there are plenty of people over at redstate.com who'll love to hear your ignorant views on why Obama is to be blamed for everything, but save the rest of us who are more interested in discussing the situation at hand.

Edited March 3, 2014 by downzy

[Facekicker]

What is your understanding of how the people on the ground in Crimea are reacting to this move by Russia. What do you understand of their reaction to the protesters in Kiev?

First off, it's irrelevant. Crimea is not a country, the Ukraine is. It's the Ukraine's military that will have to protect Crimea against invasion....not just Crimea's people. Second, even if it were relevant, it should be handled internally by the Ukraine government. Russia has absolutely ZERO reasoning to invade a sovereign nation.

So it is ok for America to act to protect its interests abroad but not Russia?

[Ace Nova]

So it is ok for America to act to protect its interests abroad but not Russia?

I've already addressed the comparison to this and Iraq....or just about any other conflict the U.S. has been involved in.

Let's just say for stupidity's sake that the U.S. was wrong in protecting their interests abroad....how does it make it right for Russia to do so?

[Facekicker]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'll address this some more later.

There is far more to this than the media networks are covering.

[shades]

dangerous precedent,

if it were any other country invading a sovereign nation the world order would act.

So

the world order has to act.

Exactly what that action is will be directly related to the size of Obamas resolve.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/microphone-picks-up-obamas-private-exchange-with-medvedev/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

It's been almost a year, and no one ever pressed for an explanation,

Maybe these two have already discussed this latest "crisis"

Hey Shades, do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up about how everything is Obama's fault. It's not the point of this thread.

I'm sure there are plenty of people over at redstate.com who'll love to hear your ignorant views on why Obama is to be blamed for everything, but save the rest of us who are more interested in discussing the situation at hand.

Mr. Google, I thought I told you about that cyber tough guy schtick,

you know, and I know you're a little bitty man with a keyboard, so stop with the big balls stuff, I can't snap your little pencil neck from here, so whats the point of the charade.

and On topic,

Whether or not you like it, Obama is front and center,

his "fault" is that he doesn't know when to stop talking, a lot like you.

As leader of the free world he has to come up with something, he's got his whipping boy Kerry out there making all kinds of veiled threats.

Obama is a phony, I have been trying to say that from day one.

and now he's getting dangerous, Russia is not someone you play with.

Kennedy, Reagan were certainly up the task, and so would have been McCain.

But lucky us we have a clown with big floppy clown shoes when the world needs a leader.

Edited March 3, 2014 by shades

[OmarBradley]

Mr. Google, I thought I told you about that cyber tough guy schtick,

you know, and I know you're a little bitty man with a keyboard, so stop with the big balls stuff, I can't snap your little pencil neck from here, so whats the point of the charade.

and On topic,

Whether or not you like it, Obama is front and center,

his "fault" is that he doesn't know when to stop talking, a lot like you.

As leader of the free world he has to come up with something, he's got his whipping boy Kerry out there making all kinds of veiled threats.

Obama is a phony, I have been trying to say that from day one.

and now he's getting dangerous, Russia is not someone you play with.

Kennedy, Reagan were certainly up the task, and so would have been McCain.

But lucky us we have a clown with big floppy shoes when the world needs a leader.

Shades, still waiting for you to address my points:

exactly, Obama is in way over his head, again

A lot of us tried to warn putting a community organizer with no experience running anything was a bad idea for leader of the free world

I tried pressing you to elaborate on that view in the Ted Nugent thread, but you never replied:

Obama was a constitutional law professor at University of Chicago, his political career began in 1996. That gives him 12 years of political experience, plus years of academic study before ascending to the presidency. People with less qualifications have executed the presidency to a satisfactory (or more) degree. We can argue all day and night whether or not he's been an effective president (I do not want to do that here, for obvious reasons), but the argument that he is any more unqualified than say, Harry Truman or Abraham Lincoln was, is just incorrect.

Please address my points, rather than making generalizing statements based on......I really have no idea what you're basing your statements on to be honest.

And that fact that you have to turn every thread on politics into an "Obama sucks" thread really hurts the intelligent discussion occurring in those threads. Plenty of people have civilly expressed their disappointment with Obama on this forum, yet you seem to be the only one who is looking for an argument anytime anyone mentions his name.

EDIT: While we're at it, explain to me how President Romney, or President McCain would have solved all of these problems.

Edited March 3, 2014 by OmarBradley

[Lithium]

dangerous precedent,

if it were any other country invading a sovereign nation the world order would act.

So

the world order has to act.

Exactly what that action is will be directly related to the size of Obamas resolve.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/microphone-picks-up-obamas-private-exchange-with-medvedev/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

It's been almost a year, and no one ever pressed for an explanation,

Maybe these two have already discussed this latest "crisis"

Hey Shades, do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up about how everything is Obama's fault. It's not the point of this thread.

I'm sure there are plenty of people over at redstate.com who'll love to hear your ignorant views on why Obama is to be blamed for everything, but save the rest of us who are more interested in discussing the situation at hand.

Mr. Google, I thought I told you about that cyber tough guy schtick,

you know, and I know you're a little bitty man with a keyboard, so stop with the big balls stuff, I can't snap your little pencil neck from here, so whats the point of the charade.

and On topic,

Whether or not you like it, Obama is front and center,

his "fault" is that he doesn't know when to stop talking, a lot like you.

As leader of the free world he has to come up with something, he's got his whipping boy Kerry out there making all kinds of veiled threats.

Obama is a phony, I have been trying to say that from day one.

and now he's getting dangerous, Russia is not someone you play with.

Kennedy, Reagan were certainly up the task, and so would have been McCain.

But lucky us we have a clown with big floppy clown shoes when the world needs a leader.