NBA offseason Thread

[Haters Gonna Hate]

Well at least we won't hear about the Heat 24/7. NOW IT WILL BE THE CAVS!

[Estranged Coma]

D. Wade is obvious HOF. Ray Allen is obvious HOF. Bosch will probably end up debatable but just short of HOF.

Mike miller was an all star battier was a good player. udonis haslem used to be the best player on the team. Rashard Lewis was an all star

I think bosh has a strong chance to really improve his legacy still. He has great numbers in Toronto won 2 rings with Miami if he wins another few and puts up 20 10 numbers where he goes? Just might be a hofer

[magisme]

D. Wade is obvious HOF. Ray Allen is obvious HOF. Bosch will probably end up debatable but just short of HOF.

Mike miller was an all star battier was a good player. udonis haslem used to be the best player on the team. Rashard Lewis was an all star

I think bosh has a strong chance to really improve his legacy still. He has great numbers in Toronto won 2 rings with Miami if he wins another few and puts up 20 10 numbers where he goes? Just might be a hofer

I could see it happening. I actually think if he had remained in Toronto he'd win nothing but be a HOF lock.

[Haters Gonna Hate]

Now I'll definitely download the Lebron app.

[Estranged Coma]

Now I'll definitely download the Lebron app.

Hahahha

[Iron MikeyJ]

As you all know, I have never been a LeBron fan. But as a basketball fan I am happy today. This is the smartest and best thing Lebron has ever done, as a man (well other than be a father and husband). I am actually proud of him, man to man, for the first time ever. This was the right choice for SO many reasons. The Miami Heat team that they built was the WORST thing that ever happened to the NBA imo. They won 2 rings yes, but I never felt like they earned those rings. They cheated and scammed their way to championships imo. I had 0 respect for Lebron the entire time he was in Miami.

But this move changes so much. I feel like for the first time in his life he owning up to being THE MAN. Chicago was Jordan's town, Boston was Bird's town, LA was Magic's town, and CLEVELAND is LeBron's town. Miami was just his vacation home. Well the vacation is over, and it's time for him to really complete his leagacy. But beyond just LeBron and Cleveland, this makes the whole league exciting again. I really feel that it's the best thing for the whole league.

Props to LeBron, I have just gained a lot of respect for you.

[TeeJay410]

Wade is a hall of famer for what he did until he was 30. Like Vince carter and tracy McGrady, his aggressive style of play has made him average at past after 30.

Bosh is an all star, and with the lax conditions of the NBA hall of game he'll make it, but let's not pretend he ever was anything more than a B+ player.

LeBron had Ray Allen on the 18th hole of his career.

Mike miller is great when he isn't crippled over in pain.

Battier made some big 3 pointers, solid defender.

Other than that? Miami hasn't had much of anything. History will show how much more LeBron had to do with those championship runs than we all realized in the moment.

[Crazyman]

Called it.

And seriously, are people still talking shit about LeBron going to Miami? Have you seen those Cavs teams?! I would've "jumped ship" a lot faster than he did. They surrounded him with a bunch of D-leaguers at best and he was well within his right, as a free agent, to go to another team. Jordan wouldn't be held in nearly the same light if he hadn't been surrounded by Pippen, Rodman and other great role players. I bet if he played in this era he would've "jumped ship" too if the Bulls didn't do anything and kept their mid-80's teams together.

People seem to forget Kobe was complaining and wanted to be traded around 2007 (to the Bulls, I believe). That's a hell of a lot worse than a player, who is a free agent, leaving his team and going somewhere else.

I won't even get into the fact that LeBron is a model citizen off the court (especially compared to Kobe...another thing conveniently forgotten). Yet people seem to make up reasons to hate him. I guess that's what happens when you're clearly the best.

[magisme]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

[ronaldo9]

Lin and a future 1st round pick traded to the Lakers to clear cap space for Bosh and Parsons in Houston.

[Haters Gonna Hate]

This Cavs team could be dangerous in a few years.

[Crazyman]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

[Estranged Coma]

Lin and a future 1st round pick traded to the Lakers to clear cap space for Bosh and Parsons in Houston.

Houston is the happiest team besides Cleveland that lebron left the heat.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Your talent level shouldn't dictate whether or not you can change teams.

Peyton is the greatest regular season quarterback of all time (tho he sucks in the playoffs) and he jumped ship.

MJ actually came back as a free agent and played with another team. And it's not like he made some huge sacrifice while he was in Chicago, dude played with two other Hall of Fame players. If Lebron had two Hall of Fame players on his team then he'd have 5-6 NBA championships right now!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I know Jordan is the second greatest player of all time. But he wasn't a one man show. But the Bulls were loaded, Cleveland was not. Why would Jordan leave the Bulls? Where else could he find a team that had two Hall of Famers and possibly the best NBA coach of all time?

I see a guy like Carlos Boozer get a free pass when he is 1000 times more selfish and a prick than Lebron ever was. Boozer was under a team friendly contract, and made a verbal/hand shake agreement that he would resign for a higher number if the team released him from his contract. They could have kept him under contract for a very minimum salary. So they release him........but instead of honoring his WORD, Boozer then says 'Ya, I've changed my mind and am going to sign somewhere else."

That "decision" screwed his team and screwed his fellow NBA players to this day.

What he did is 1000 times worse than anything Lebron has ever done.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think a player's talent level should have anything to do with how we judge their free agency decisions.

If free agents can go to the Falcons for the money and chance to win a championship, then Lebron should be free to do the same thing.

What??? I'm literally shaking my head at this entire post. For one, it's LeBron's day. Why did you even bring Jordan's name into the discusion? For two, you seriously over value the teams that Jordan had in Chicago, yes he had 2 other HOFers but only had Rodman for the 2nd three peat. So what about the first 3 peat? Pippen was BARELY an elite player during the 91~93 run. Those championships were won because nobody could stop Jordan, period. Yes Jordan learned to trust his teammates, but those teammates were not that good. Bill Cartwright was the starting center, any team with Bill Cartwright as a starter is CLEARLY a flawed team. And Pippen really didn't become a true hall of famer until after Jordan went to play baseball, that's when he learned what being a leader is all about. But Jordan was so comepletly unstoppable that he is 95% the reason why those first 3 rings happened. He still holds the record for highest scoring average in an NBA Finals for the 93 season, which he averaged like 43 ppg for that series. That's an insane number...

As for Jordan being the 2nd best, who do you have a head of him??? I'm sure you're gonna make me laugh with this response....

I love how you keep bringing up Jordan's 2 seasons is Washington like it is at all comparable to anything discussed in this thread. The only reason Jordan even retired in 98' was because the Bulls organisation got cocky. The owner and the GM really believed that they were just as responsible for those rings as Jordan, Pippen, and Jackson. Especially Jackson. They pushed Phil Jackson out of Chicago, bottom line. Jordan went on record of saying that he wasn't going to play for any other coach other than Phil. So when ownership said Phil isn't coaching anymore, they forced Jordan's hand, so he then retired, then Pippen went to Houston. But had they not done that, they all would have ended their careers in Chicago. Bottom line was Jordan wasn't ready to retire in 98'. He wanted to play a couple more years, that is why he came back to the Wizards. He sure as hell wasn't going back to Chicago after ownership broke up one of the greatest teams of all time.

You really need to get your facts straight when talking about these things man. The Jordan playing for the Wizards is not like this situation at all man. Apples and oranges....

As for your thoughts on stars being treated differently than average players, well of course man. Honestly who the fuck cares what Boozer did??? That is a horrible comparision, I don't understand why you even brought it up. Of course people want stars to play in the cities they belong in. I understand that free agency allows players to make their own choices, and that players don't need to show loyality to franchises because franchises rarely show loyality themselves. But it's not about that, it's about the fans. When players are loyal to their fans (by playing for one team for most of their career) then fans remain loyal to the players for their whole life. I will always LOVE every member of the 89', 90', and 04' champion Pistons. For me Ben Wallace and Cauncey Billups are FAR greater Pistons than a guy like Grant Hill, that left us high and dry. And the Bad Boy Pistons are STILL kings in Detroit. Despite Isiah Thomas's ups and downs he will always be loved in Detroit. He showed loyality to us, so we show loyality to him, period. But who cares what a guy like Josh Smith says or does, he isn't even close to that level.

I'm trying to find some common ground with ya Groghan, but you say these things... Of course LeBron's 2010 debacle is going to get more shit than ANYTHING Boozer said or did, because nobody gives two shits about Boozer. And can we please leave Jordan out of these discusions? I know you like LeBron more than Jordan, which is fine, but I'm sick of these go arounds Jordan vs LeBron. Honestly I'd much rather just discuss LeBron, today is his day...

[magisme]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

So we're pretty much in agreement then, yes? I obviously wouldn't compare the Cavs to MJ's Bulls talent wise. But it's also not exactly comparable in terms of judging Michael or Lebron. The Bulls were a dynasty. That Cavs team had no business being in the finals and were obviously toast from the word go once they got there.

Edited July 11, 2014 by magisme

[Estranged Coma]

This Cavs team could be dangerous in a few years.

In the east atleast they are dangerous this year. The eastern conference playoffs are going to be a lot more exciting now and not just Miami cake walking to the finals.

I can see the pacers wizards cavs and bulls all in contention for east tittle and lebron being the best player by miles in that conference I can see them in the east conf finals and fighting for a finals spot.

[Crazyman]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

So we're pretty much in agreement then, yes? I obviously wouldn't compare the Cavs to MJ's Bulls talent wise. But it's also not exactly comparable in terms of judging Michael or Lebron. The Bulls were a dynasty. That Cavs team had no business being in the finals and were obviously toast from the word go once they got there.

Ah, I read your post wrong. Yeah, we're definitely in agreement

[Estranged Coma]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

So we're pretty much in agreement then, yes? I obviously wouldn't compare the Cavs to MJ's Bulls talent wise. But it's also not exactly comparable in terms of judging Michael or Lebron. The Bulls were a dynasty. That Cavs team had no business being in the finals and were obviously toast from the word go once they got there.

That cavs team wasn't that bad people. They had young bron booby Gibson big Z Larry Hughes verajau and drew gooden. And the east was weak so they did have a lot of business being there. They beat the wizards a team they were better then and an aging pistons team which they were about equal with to better then. The reason they got swept was because they went up against a beast of a spurs team.

[magisme]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

So we're pretty much in agreement then, yes? I obviously wouldn't compare the Cavs to MJ's Bulls talent wise. But it's also not exactly comparable in terms of judging Michael or Lebron. The Bulls were a dynasty. That Cavs team had no business being in the finals and were obviously toast from the word go once they got there.

That cavs team wasn't that bad people. They had young bron booby Gibson big Z Larry Hughes verajau and drew gooden. And the east was weak so they did have a lot of business being there. They beat the wizards a team they were better then and an aging pistons team which they were about equal with to better then. The reason they got swept was because they went up against a beast of a spurs team.

I'm not saying they were that bad, but they weren't that good. Playoff team? Of course. Win a round or two? Sure. Go to the finals? Fuck off. East better be complete shit and injury ridden to boot. Check and check.

Edited July 11, 2014 by magisme

[Iron MikeyJ]

Thev 86' Bulls did make the playoffs, but you guys are forgetting their record, they won only like 32 games that year. They were not a good team at all. Orlando Woolridge was a solid player, and they had an old ass George Gervin. But they were not better than the 2007 Cavs minus LeBron. Jordan coming back for the final 22 games is WHY they even made the playoffs. They got LUCKY to make the playoffs, and they made the 8th seed and had to play the Celitcs. Then What happened??? Jordan went crazy and they took the eventual champs to a game 5 (first round was only 5 games then). You guys bringing up the 86' Bulls is laughable. Sorry but the 07' Cavs Minus Lebron ARE MUCH better than the 86' Bulls minus Jordan.

Again, can we just keep Jordan out of this discussion for a while??? I'm trying to be happy for LeBron today, but everyone keeps talking about Jordan. I LOVE Jordan, but lets talk Cleveland, ok?

[Apollo]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Ya, it's 100% true!!!!

Is Wade really a certain Hall of Famer? Look at the dude's numbers. Sure, with three NBA titles to his credit he'll probably make it. But depending on what he does the next 2-3 years he might not finish in the top 50 for scoring or the top 50 for assists of all time.

Remember Reggie Theus? His numbers are almost exactly the same as Wade. Theus - 18 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds per game.

Scott Pippen is a top 50 player of All Time. Wade will only go into the Hall because of his tenue with Lebron.

Bosh needs five more years of 20/10 before talking about him being in the hall of fame conversation.

Mags - come on bro.

When people make lists of the top 10 NBA teams of all time, you'll find 2 or 3 of Jordan's teams on the list. You never see Miami on it.

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

Great points

[Apollo]

So Bosh to Houston..............great move

Parsons to Dallas.................great move

Mello to Bulls or NY...............

Love traded to Cleveland.................

Lakers get nothing................

Miami - now who do they add.............

Trevor Ariza...................

Luol Deng.....................

[Estranged Coma]

Miami is basically fuked and they know it. They are pretty much where the cavs were when bron left, screwed. They had all there future tied into him and he bailed. Miami has no picks no assets to trade nothing. They got d wade Shabaz Napier and cap space

[Crazyman]

No one is saying Lebron wasn't by far the biggest reason Miami won, but to say he had it so much worse than MJ in Chicago is simply not true.

Miami would've won exactly 0 championships with Bosh and Wade. LeBron basically made the Cavs. Look how bad they were when he left. Even without LeBron this year they would have 3 first overall picks on the franchise...and would probably just make the playoffs in an extremely weak East.

In regards to MJ in Chicago vs LeBron in Cleveland? I'd say it's very comparable. In fact, the year Michael broke his ankle (or leg) the Bulls still made the playoffs. Would any of those Cavs teams make the playoffs without LeBron?

So we're pretty much in agreement then, yes? I obviously wouldn't compare the Cavs to MJ's Bulls talent wise. But it's also not exactly comparable in terms of judging Michael or Lebron. The Bulls were a dynasty. That Cavs team had no business being in the finals and were obviously toast from the word go once they got there.

That cavs team wasn't that bad people. They had young bron booby Gibson big Z Larry Hughes verajau and drew gooden. And the east was weak so they did have a lot of business being there. They beat the wizards a team they were better then and an aging pistons team which they were about equal with to better then. The reason they got swept was because they went up against a beast of a spurs team.

Let's take a look at the players you brought up:

Gibson - A rookie that year who is no longer in the league

Big Z - Over 30, knees shot. Average 12 points. Shot under 50% as a 7'3" center.

Larry Hughes - Probably 2nd best player. Only full season with the Cavs.

Anderson Varejao - Bench player. Started 6 games and averaged 7 and 7.

Drew Gooden - Shot a lower FG% than LeBron. Another decent player, averaged 11 points. Watching him I know he's a God-awful defender.

That awful team (minus LeBron) won 50 games and went to the Finals. By far the worst team to ever make it to the Finals during my lifetime, even with LeBron. Not to mention, LeBron basically beat the Pistons by himself scoring 29 of the last 30 points (and 25 straight) in game 5(?) and scoring almost 50 points against the best defensive team of the era.

[magisme]

Mags - come on bro.

When people make lists of the top 10 NBA teams of all time, you'll find 2 or 3 of Jordan's teams on the list. You never see Miami on it.

Neither of their teams deserve to be on that list, imo. Scottie Pippen wasn't as good as people make him out to be, and after that who? Rodman for some? Paxson? Kukoc? Cartwright? Luke Longley? I threw that last one in for fun, but you get the point. Not world beaters. Jordan, imo, is the greatest there has been, but he also lucked into a league that had few stars in their prime and even fewer good teams, so his teams were disproportionately dominant within that particular time period. Put the 90s Bulls in the early to mid 80s and it's a whole different story.