the Tobias v Slash thing

[Rovim]

I can see how it could happen though. Axl kind of rejects Snakepit, Slash refuses to work with Tobias, takes a dim view of even the idea of Seymour Ballads. Maybe Slash did one solo, Axl wanted something else and seeing as Tobias is his boy, Slash basically refusing to work with Axl, Axl sides or sees Tobias as his new guitarist and asks him to play over Slash. Slash leaves.

Still kind of a dick move, but if the solo wasn't finished and Slash refused to do another take, then not quite as bad within context of the general hostility between them it's not really anything. Axl not seeing a future with Slash doesn't care.

They just didn't like each other that much.

But didn't Axl triedit Zakk too? and sacked Gilby without considering what Slash wanted? Slash tried to write with Gilby. Granted, Gilby wasn't right for Guns as a songwriter in Axl's eyes, but there was a pattern of not giving a fuck about who Slash wanted to work with. Guitar players...you don't just stick them together and hope for the best. Not just guitar players, but yeah.

I think slash likes Zakk though, that's the difference. I think it's all about Axl finding a guitarist to work with or work for him. Gilby can write tunes and work with Slash. But neither really wanted to go where Axl wanted to go? And Slash seemed much more stubborn about it and so did Axl. They should have kept Gilby and brought in Tobias but Slash wouldn't want that either. He was trying to downscale it, Axl was trying to go big again. Reality is Slash was blocking what Axl wanted to do as well. If he didn't, if he work on the Seymour ballads or just with Axl then none of it would really matter and Gilby could stay. But there was a time period of creative uncertainty, that Axl might see as the genesis of a new project but Slash sees as frustration and gay. Rearranging the band, finding a new way to work, fuck that, let's just rock! But Axl's talking about doing this or that, and seeing what he did with CD I can't see Slash playing the Finck role of 1 song and some solos. And waiting 10 years to do it. With Axl at the helm doing mostly ballads. Even some of the rockers are like ballads. Ballad fuckin' City!!!

No, I agree: Slash cockblocked the shit out of what Axl was trying to do too. That don't make it cool though, what Axl did. It was...total disregard for what Slash wanted. They turned on each other imo.

Slash totally disregarded what Axl wanted. To me it looks like classic tit-for-tat type stuff. Even Axl saying not interested in Snakepit was probably response to Slash not taking interest in Seymour ballads. Which goes back to Axl having to force through Nov Rain. Slash was really out of step with what happened with Nov Rain and the videos, suddenly Axl was a pop star dating a supermodel. That song is all about Axl wearing cape and being Elton Rose and Slash helped him grudgingly. But after getting Axl'd on that tour he was probably sick of getting ass fucked. But he still could have helped Axl with his ballads but yeah he's probably been having a better time doing his own stuff.

But if you believe Axl, Slash and Duff refused to work on November Rain and Estranged. So it was then just helping Axl but resenting him for it. He fought them to make it happen. Slash was not going to do that again. No more seymour ballads. They wanted different things musically.

I think Axl would have tried what Slash wanted to do, but they've already dun dat. So...Axl probably believed that he was the only one that was willing to move forward, and that he was responsible to make that happen. Whatever it takes. I can understand that. I can also understand someone like Slash, which is perfectly content with what he was doing and no more funny business. Dead end.

I agree. I think I said the first part in my own foggy way. This was an on going battle to remain the same sunset strip sewer rats. Axl had a cigarette holder and a dolphin I don't think that was ever going to happen.

The whole Axl as visionary thing is something Slash didn't seem to like. He seemed happy giving Axl songs to to sing on for UYI. But didn't like anything Axl added like deep vocals or quotes?

Axl's classic quote is "I've seen the future of rock n roll and I'm jealous" I'm not sure what he was referring to, probably Justin Bieber. but it could be like he saw a hologram of a band that was influenced by Nirvana, Faith No more, Rage Against Machine and NIN but had the classic rock dynamics of Zepp and Queen. Simple but genius idea. Axl travelled back from the future to show Axl what was needed.

Oh I think he saw something he had to have. His vision was like you've said: making a new AFD in a way. A new melting pot. NOT TOTALLY NEW. Just... look what I like! I like this and this and this, and now...look how I absorb that shit like no one else. And Chinese is proof imo that he could have had that if Slash was onboard. But it wasn't, so Axl came very close with going to the source. To Finck for example.

Axl knows what makes a Guns song a Guns song, it's just some elements appeal to him more then others. That's Chinese, and it's shortcomings are partially intended, cause it's not what all old Guns fans expect, and also because no Slash, no genuine Slash riffs n' solos. Something Axl struggled to replace. "what stopped you from making another Appetite? Slash".

[wasted]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

[Rovim]

Paul quit after two shows when he eventually joined the band so, no matter how you look at it, it wouldn't have worked in a million years.

But might have worked for a new Guns album. That would at least have given them a chance. But generally speaking, I don't believe you can make 2 people that don't get along and don't really click personally and musically become a unit for a long period of time. Not with the freedom Slash had, without a contract, and the fact Paul was Axl's boy.

Old Guns would have been over anyway for a million different reasons imo.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense because that's not how you do things in a band. Maybe it made sense to Axl, but GNR was not his solo project. He doesn't get to make that call on his own.

[Rovim]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

Shitloads.

[wasted]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

It was an epic choice imo. I think Axl N' Paul are a great little unit, Much like Axl and Izzy were. But...for real. This is Guns N' Roses. If you can have Slash in your band, you should first secure that shit. Find a better way to introduce such a radical idea (in Slash's opinion at least) not you know...force it on him. That never works. That's an anti machine. And he didn't like him and didn't think he had any talent.

So I think Paul was the right choice for a second guitar player, but did it ever had a chance with keeping Slash in the band? I don't know.

It seems not because Paul can write songs, and that takes GNR away from Slash some more. He wanted to do another AFD type record, right? Tobias gave Axl the possibility of doing all these epic ballads or whatever. Of course Slash didn't like Paul. Slash just wants a guy to play rythmn on his stuff. If Slash didn't leave he might not really have much of a role in the next record. He questioned Paul's ability which seems off as he wrote some good stuff. He's just not the right fit to do the Snakepit. In the end, for me it was Slash not working with Axl on his stuff. Trying to focus on Snakepit was a mistake. Just get Axl going on his stuff, then work on Snakepit with Paul. Trying to force Axl into doing Snakepit was only going to end one way. Or Axl needed to just go with Slash. Just write some lyrics for Snakepit material and do a quick record the way Slash exactly wanted to do it. Hold the ballads for AFD 2.

[Rovim]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

It was an epic choice imo. I think Axl N' Paul are a great little unit, Much like Axl and Izzy were. But...for real. This is Guns N' Roses. If you can have Slash in your band, you should first secure that shit. Find a better way to introduce such a radical idea (in Slash's opinion at least) not you know...force it on him. That never works. That's an anti machine. And he didn't like him and didn't think he had any talent.

So I think Paul was the right choice for a second guitar player, but did it ever had a chance with keeping Slash in the band? I don't know.

It seems not because Paul can write songs, and that takes GNR away from Slash some more. He wanted to do another AFD type record, right? Tobias gave Axl the possibility of doing all these epic ballads or whatever. Of course Slash didn't like Paul. Slash just wants a guy to play rythmn on his stuff. If Slash didn't leave he might not really have much of a role in the next record. He questioned Paul's ability which seems off as he wrote some good stuff. He's just not the right fit to do the Snakepit. In the end, for me it was Slash not working with Axl on his stuff. Trying to focus on Snakepit was a mistake. Just get Axl going on his stuff, then work on Snakepit with Paul. Trying to force Axl into doing Snakepit was only going to end one way. Or Axl needed to just go with Slash. Just write some lyrics for Snakepit material and do a quick record the way Slash exactly wanted to do it. Hold the ballads for AFD 2.

There was no compromise. You said it yourself I think, a few posts back. You're making too much sense (alarming)

I agree though with most of what you've said in your latest post, it's just...you said Paul wasn't right for Snakepit, and then you said "then work on Snakepit with Paul" there is no way in all that is tits that Slash would have let Paul get anywhere near his shit. No way in hell. Imo.

I think it was also a case of: "me first, fuck you". Not like UYI, where it was more of a "me...then you" kind of a thing. No compromise, no chance. No matter how you retrosepct that shit and try to solve it with yourself. And they were kinda young, jizzed pits and all that money and power and recognition. I would have been a class A cunt with that kind of power (maybe even without all that shit, I am anyway) but to be honest, it was still fucked up how they couldn't keep THAT together.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense because that's not how you do things in a band. Maybe it made sense to Axl, but GNR was not his solo project. He doesn't get to make that call on his own.

Oh, you don't think he was forced into it?

Slash was deciding that Axl couldn't do his songs because he would only veto a guitarist who would work for Slash, not Axl. Slash used to be the guy who helped Axl do songs (Izzy the foil for Slash or whatever), but he was refusing, he was only willing for Axl to sing on Snakepit. So what options does Axl have after years of trying to work it out.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer. Each option kind of fucks the other guy. but if Slash helped Axl that would be big. Then Axl doesn't need Tobias. And Slash can bring in one of his picks to play with.

Axl was forced into bringing in Tobias because Slash wouldn't work with him. Axl was a dick about it, what else is new?

[magisme]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense because that's not how you do things in a band. Maybe it made sense to Axl, but GNR was not his solo project. He doesn't get to make that call on his own.

Oh, you don't think he was forced into it?

Slash was deciding that Axl couldn't do his songs because he would only veto a guitarist who would work for Slash, not Axl. Slash used to be the guy who helped Axl do songs (Izzy the foil for Slash or whatever), but he was refusing, he was only willing for Axl to sing on Snakepit. So what options does Axl have after years of trying to work it out.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer. Each option kind of fucks the other guy. but if Slash helped Axl that would be big. Then Axl doesn't need Tobias. And Slash can bring in one of his picks to play with.

Axl was forced into bringing in Tobias because Slash wouldn't work with him. Axl was a dick about it, what else is new?

I don't believe for a second that Slash told Axl he could sing the Snakepit songs or nothing. That is Axl Out Ta Get Me bullshit.

[ChineseIRS]

They were both being douches. Both trying to play their power cards. Axl bringing in Tobias against Slashs will and Slash not wanting to work on Axls ballads.

Just reading Slashs new interview in the World On Fire thread he states how he never wanted Guns to be a two guitar band but Izzy was there first. I think once Gilby was canned he thought it was his chance to take over all guitar duties, with Izzy possibly helping here and there in the studio. Next thing he knows, Axl brings in Tobias and he flips, rightfully so.

Now Slash refusing to work on Axls ballads? I think thats a huge dick move. Ballads were a huge part of Guns success. Brought them to a whole other level...Sweet Child, Patience, Dont Cry, November Rain. Fuck, without those who knows where they would have been. Axl knows his shit when it comes to ballads.

And i think if Slash wasnt being so stubborn about the ballads, Axl would have played ball right from the getgo on some of the Snakepit material.

Its just a shame how it all ended up, no matter which way you slice it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ChineseIRS

[Rovim]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense because that's not how you do things in a band. Maybe it made sense to Axl, but GNR was not his solo project. He doesn't get to make that call on his own.

Oh, you don't think he was forced into it?

Slash was deciding that Axl couldn't do his songs because he would only veto a guitarist who would work for Slash, not Axl. Slash used to be the guy who helped Axl do songs (Izzy the foil for Slash or whatever), but he was refusing, he was only willing for Axl to sing on Snakepit. So what options does Axl have after years of trying to work it out.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer. Each option kind of fucks the other guy. but if Slash helped Axl that would be big. Then Axl doesn't need Tobias. And Slash can bring in one of his picks to play with.

Axl was forced into bringing in Tobias because Slash wouldn't work with him. Axl was a dick about it, what else is new?

I don't believe for a second that Slash told Axl he could sing the Snakepit songs or nothing. That is Axl Out Ta Get Me bullshit.

You think Axl is a liar, but what do you base that on? you can be paranoid, and still not be a liar. Out Ta Get Me I thought, was about cops trying to nail Axl for something he didn't do, but he fucked off from Indiana before they could or some shit.

I have no reason to think Axl is a liar. Maybe you do, and you can share it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

It was an epic choice imo. I think Axl N' Paul are a great little unit, Much like Axl and Izzy were. But...for real. This is Guns N' Roses. If you can have Slash in your band, you should first secure that shit. Find a better way to introduce such a radical idea (in Slash's opinion at least) not you know...force it on him. That never works. That's an anti machine. And he didn't like him and didn't think he had any talent.

So I think Paul was the right choice for a second guitar player, but did it ever had a chance with keeping Slash in the band? I don't know.

It seems not because Paul can write songs, and that takes GNR away from Slash some more. He wanted to do another AFD type record, right? Tobias gave Axl the possibility of doing all these epic ballads or whatever. Of course Slash didn't like Paul. Slash just wants a guy to play rythmn on his stuff. If Slash didn't leave he might not really have much of a role in the next record. He questioned Paul's ability which seems off as he wrote some good stuff. He's just not the right fit to do the Snakepit. In the end, for me it was Slash not working with Axl on his stuff. Trying to focus on Snakepit was a mistake. Just get Axl going on his stuff, then work on Snakepit with Paul. Trying to force Axl into doing Snakepit was only going to end one way. Or Axl needed to just go with Slash. Just write some lyrics for Snakepit material and do a quick record the way Slash exactly wanted to do it. Hold the ballads for AFD 2.

There was no compromise. You said it yourself I think, a few posts back. You're making too much sense (alarming)

I agree though with most of what you've said in your latest post, it's just...you said Paul wasn't right for Snakepit, and then you said "then work on Snakepit with Paul" there is no way in all that is tits that Slash would have let Paul get anywhere near his shit. No way in hell. Imo.

I think it was also a case of: "me first, fuck you". Not like UYI, where it was more of a "me...then you". No compromise, no chance. No matter how you retrosepct that shit and try to solve it with yourself. And they were kinda young, jizzed pits and all that money and power and recognition. I would have been a class A cunt with that kind of power (maybe even without all that shit, I am anyway) but to be honest, it was still fucked up how they couldn't keep THAT together.

Yeah I don't think on the surface that Paul fits Snakepit, but I think he could play what Slash wanted possibly if the world depended on it. If I was Slash I would try, maybe he did. If not, then they'd have to go back to the drawing board. But don't quit over it. You can bring some else in, like he did to actually do Snakepit. Then get Axl to sing on it. And close your eyes and play a solo on This I Love. They could have even done a concept album. Snakepit with Axl singing no changes. Then an album of Axl songs with Slash as his bitch. Call it Weapons of Mass Debate. UYI was virtually 3 solo albums of material. Same again only with two guys material.

But the answer is really Slash works with Axl on This I Love. Then Slash gets someone to play with he likes. All he has to do is work with Axl. Seemed like he didn't want to, so maybe he was right to leave. But don't act like Axl forced you out and all the rest of it. He just didn't want to work with Axl anymore. Make those compromises so he could be in GNR.

[magisme]

Marc has discussed this at length. He doesn't lie, necessarily, but he interprets events entirely differently than others, in an Out Ta Get Me fashion. So unless someone I believe can corroborate his apparently nutbar story, I'll continue to think it's nutbar.

[wasted]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

The angle you're coming at this from is very telling. Everything you say is embedded with the implicit assumption that it was Axl's band first and foremost. That's what he thought too. Didn't work out so well.

It's really not that at all. That is a factor in Axl's decisions, he's as strong willed as Slash. And success hardened their resolve. They have no reasons to compromise. It's nothing to do with me, in my opinion. Axl leads, he's the ringleader, that's just how he comes across I think, he's not as much of an asshole as people think. He's got a zoo for fuck's sake. I really think he wanted the best for GNR.

But I just mean it makes more sense to bring in another guy from Indiana whose not really a virtuoso guitar player, than a similar guitar player from a big band. The balance of the band makes more sense with Axl n Tobias and Slash n Duff and a drummer. Gilby is an okay fit too, it's just Axl needs someone to help him and Slash wasn't going to. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense because that's not how you do things in a band. Maybe it made sense to Axl, but GNR was not his solo project. He doesn't get to make that call on his own.

Oh, you don't think he was forced into it?

Slash was deciding that Axl couldn't do his songs because he would only veto a guitarist who would work for Slash, not Axl. Slash used to be the guy who helped Axl do songs (Izzy the foil for Slash or whatever), but he was refusing, he was only willing for Axl to sing on Snakepit. So what options does Axl have after years of trying to work it out.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer. Each option kind of fucks the other guy. but if Slash helped Axl that would be big. Then Axl doesn't need Tobias. And Slash can bring in one of his picks to play with.

Axl was forced into bringing in Tobias because Slash wouldn't work with him. Axl was a dick about it, what else is new?

I don't believe for a second that Slash told Axl he could sing the Snakepit songs or nothing. That is Axl Out Ta Get Me bullshit.

Well, you gotta believe something. Might as well go with the quotes that support my argument.

In the end it comes down to who you believe. I believe both, that's the problem, I see a new Guns fan, I don't dodge them, I lay low, creep awhile and when I see a cop, I smile.

Marc has discussed this at length. He doesn't lie, necessarily, but he interprets events entirely differently than others, in an Out Ta Get Me fashion. So unless someone I believe can corroborate his apparently nutbar story, I'll continue to think it's nutbar.

Marc has said Slash lies. And thinks Slash should apologize to Axl. Your witness.

[Rovim]

I'm more on board with Axl bringing his buddy from Indiana to cover Izzy than bringing another lead player from Ozzy's solo band in. Axl was like trying to scare Slash straight. Shape up boy or I'll replace you with Pitman.

It was an epic choice imo. I think Axl N' Paul are a great little unit, Much like Axl and Izzy were. But...for real. This is Guns N' Roses. If you can have Slash in your band, you should first secure that shit. Find a better way to introduce such a radical idea (in Slash's opinion at least) not you know...force it on him. That never works. That's an anti machine. And he didn't like him and didn't think he had any talent.

So I think Paul was the right choice for a second guitar player, but did it ever had a chance with keeping Slash in the band? I don't know.

It seems not because Paul can write songs, and that takes GNR away from Slash some more. He wanted to do another AFD type record, right? Tobias gave Axl the possibility of doing all these epic ballads or whatever. Of course Slash didn't like Paul. Slash just wants a guy to play rythmn on his stuff. If Slash didn't leave he might not really have much of a role in the next record. He questioned Paul's ability which seems off as he wrote some good stuff. He's just not the right fit to do the Snakepit. In the end, for me it was Slash not working with Axl on his stuff. Trying to focus on Snakepit was a mistake. Just get Axl going on his stuff, then work on Snakepit with Paul. Trying to force Axl into doing Snakepit was only going to end one way. Or Axl needed to just go with Slash. Just write some lyrics for Snakepit material and do a quick record the way Slash exactly wanted to do it. Hold the ballads for AFD 2.

There was no compromise. You said it yourself I think, a few posts back. You're making too much sense (alarming)

I agree though with most of what you've said in your latest post, it's just...you said Paul wasn't right for Snakepit, and then you said "then work on Snakepit with Paul" there is no way in all that is tits that Slash would have let Paul get anywhere near his shit. No way in hell. Imo.

I think it was also a case of: "me first, fuck you". Not like UYI, where it was more of a "me...then you". No compromise, no chance. No matter how you retrosepct that shit and try to solve it with yourself. And they were kinda young, jizzed pits and all that money and power and recognition. I would have been a class A cunt with that kind of power (maybe even without all that shit, I am anyway) but to be honest, it was still fucked up how they couldn't keep THAT together.

Yeah I don't think on the surface that Paul fits Snakepit, but I think he could play what Slash wanted possibly if the world depended on it. If I was Slash I would try, maybe he did. If not, then they'd have to go back to the drawing board. But don't quit over it. You can bring some else in, like he did to actually do Snakepit. Then get Axl to sing on it. And close your eyes and play a solo on This I Love. They could have even done a concept album. Snakepit with Axl singing no changes. Then an album of Axl songs with Slash as his bitch. Call it Weapons of Mass Debate. UYI was virtually 3 solo albums of material. Same again only with two guys material.

But the answer is really Slash works with Axl on This I Love. Then Slash gets someone to play with he likes. All he has to do is work with Axl. Seemed like he didn't want to, so maybe he was right to leave. But don't act like Axl forced you out and all the rest of it. He just didn't want to work with Axl anymore. Make those compromises so he could be in GNR.

I think Slash had enough good reasons to be pissed. But not to quit. I think Slash left thinking he could come back. Doesn't that mean his approach was to gain leverage? "you can't do Guns without me". But...then again...Axl is crazy. You don't fuck with crazy, cause you don't know how a crazy person would react.

Axl's reaction was to not forget, to not forgive. It was never gonna be the same. You want in again? fuck you! you can play on 3 songs on my new album as a guest musician, on the condition you'll look like a tit to the world. Slash misjudged the situation, and the price was hefty.

Look how Axl and Slash operated: Axl sees himself as the new messiah of rock n' roll decadence, or at least reallly, really wants to prove to himself he's not obsolete, and also to create powerful, The Wall like art. What does Slash know? who's got the vision baby? I know what's best for Guns, I know better, I lead. No compromise cause I can't. (or because he didn't want to do it)

Slash sees himself as very, very important. Maybe too important. So why compromise when you're THAT fuckin' important? No compromise, and actually, from how they both saw it, it made sense. At least at the time.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

Marc has discussed this at length. He doesn't lie, necessarily, but he interprets events entirely differently than others, in an Out Ta Get Me fashion. So unless someone I believe can corroborate his apparently nutbar story, I'll continue to think it's nutbar.

Marc has said Slash lies. And thinks Slash should apologize to Axl. Your witness.

Marc has clarified the "Slash lies" thing. Besides, I don't blindly believe Slash either. You believe both. I believe neither. As for Marc saying Slash should apologize to Axl... wut?

[Lim666]

But don't act like Axl forced you out and all the rest of it.

Axl finally forced him out with taking over the GN'R brand name when he left the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to start a new one 1996 with contracts making Duff/Axl unequal partners. Axl made the dictatorship move all on his own first.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Lim666

[maynard]

And here was I thinking I waste too much time on MyGNR. Thanks guys, you make me feel more productive... and sane.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ProstituteComa

[DieselDaisy]

Great rock bands such as old-GN'R are organic things. They rely on a series of key components which are the only such components which could produce that particular energy and chemistry. You cannot just chop and change members, sack Gilby one day, throw in Zakk Wylde, bring in your chum the next - expecting that chum to, suddenly somehow gel, with your other guitarist. For proof of this, just look at Guns N' Roses's antecedents: Hollywood Rose, New Hollywood Rose, LA Guns, London, Road Crew, original line-up of Guns - various members members came and went, drifting from one band to the next, but it took a lot of, false starts, to produce that particular chemistry that the Appetite band had.

I don't believe for a second that Slash told Axl he could sing the Snakepit songs or nothing. That is Axl Out Ta Get Me bullshit.

I have never believed that either.

Edited August 26, 2014 by DieselDaisy

[Rovim]

And here was I thinking I waste too much time on MyGNR. Thanks guys, you make me feel more productive... and sane.

It's too late for me, but you can still save yourself. Don't be like me.

[bacardimayne]

Replacing the only songwriter in the band with a talentless pretty boy hack - chill

Adding a background solo - literally Hitler, death of GNR, killed Slash's dog

Edited August 26, 2014 by bacardimayne

[magisme]

Replacing the only songwriter in the band with a talentless pretty boy hack - chill

That was awful too. But it was an awful they all ultimately agreed upon. So every one of them sucks ass for that. Only Axl sucks ass for Tobias, and he proved once again he was hellbent on being band dictator in the process.

[maynard]

Replacing the only songwriter in the band with a talentless pretty boy hack - chill

That was awful too. But it was an awful they all ultimately agreed upon. So every one of them sucks ass for that. Only Axl sucks ass for Tobias, and he proved once again he was hellbent on being band dictator in the process.

I love fans who don't rewrite history to fit their agendas. Good post, Mags.