If Slash/Duff Didnt Sign Over the GNR Name, Would Axl Really No-Show at the Concerts?

[maynard]

It's so good to see Axl fans coming up with excuses only to be owned by intercourse. This thread is great.

[RandallFlagg]

Axl has everything his own strange way right now and look what has transpired over 15 years, it's what everyone with an accurate, and fair, opinion of the guy would have predicted. Chinese Democracy, great record but overblown, confused and lacking bite in many areas. Endless tours stuck in the past and illusion of progression, several line up changes, another supremely under-used guitarist considering jumping ship, sense of going thru the motions with no purposeful horizon in sight except a safe zone where the king of the castle gets to control everything, a reliable source of income whilst believing he is the last man standing waving the flag with any vigour still contrary to his actions since 2008... it used to be admirable, and elements still ARE but the vast majority of the territory is in flames because of his own issues continuing to carry over and taint the potential this band had for a second shot.

[Rustycage]

So?

You think that keeping such a lifestyle does not impact the way your band works?

I'm not saying that Axl (or the management) took the best decision by making those documents, but something should have been done years earlier to stop Duff & Slash in their self-destructive lifestyles. Those lifestyles were jeopardizing the band's future.

To quote November Rain and Axl: "Nothing lasts forever....."

Ok, more seriously, their lifestyle didn't affect the shows. They showed up. It didn't affect rehearsal. They showed up. It didn't affect the relationships, they were like family.

The one that was the most crazy, erratic and seemingly unreasonable was the one that probably NEEDED something to take that edge off and just have fun.

The most detrimental thing to GNR was Axl.

[Nosaj Thing]

It's so good to see Axl fans coming up with excuses only to be owned by intercourse. This thread is great.

Intercourse is definitely one of my favorite posters. He just smashed Axl fans heads all over this thread.

[GUNNER PT]

Indeed ... Axl is the devil.

Kill him with fire ... oh hell, you can't kill the devil with fire, I think ...

KILL HIM WITH WATER!!!

[Rustycage]

Indeed ... Axl is the devil.

Kill him with fire ... oh hell, you can't kill the devil with fire, I think ...

KILL HIM WITH WATER!!!

Wat?

[Nosaj Thing]

Indeed ... Axl is the devil.

Kill him with fire ... oh hell, you can't kill the devil with fire, I think ...

KILL HIM WITH WATER!!!

Your attempts at being sarcastic are terribly weak. Stick to the usual Slash bashing. Thanks.

[WFA]

I don't even think that it was done right before a gig. They may have not even been on tour at the time or maybe it was done during a break. However I do believe that Slash and Duff felt that if they didn't sign it that Axl wouldn't tour anymore until it was signed. I also believe that gigs had already been book at the time they signed but not 100% sure. It was management that sold it to Slash and Duff that way sign or it's over not Axl. I also don't think that Slash or Duff even remember exactly when it was done. They were not in the best shape at the time. So if their stories are a bit different, what does it really matter. The point is they would have never signed that paper if they didn't both believe what the outcome would be.

Thanks for the insight Marc I agree, I don't think they'd have signed it unless they actually believed Axl wouldn't tour again.

[DieselDaisy]

You do know that Oh My God was a demo?

You do know this?

[Rovim]

You do know that Oh My God was a demo?

You do know this?

Sounds like one.

Still a great song. Hopefully, someday, we'll hear a reworked version.

[Laparka]

So?

You think that keeping such a lifestyle does not impact the way your band works?

I'm not saying that Axl (or the management) took the best decision by making those documents, but something should have been done years earlier to stop Duff & Slash in their self-destructive lifestyles. Those lifestyles were jeopardizing the band's future.

To quote November Rain and Axl: "Nothing lasts forever....."

Ok, more seriously, their lifestyle didn't affect the shows. They showed up. It didn't affect rehearsal. They showed up. It didn't affect the relationships, they were like family.

The one that was the most crazy, erratic and seemingly unreasonable was the one that probably NEEDED something to take that edge off and just have fun.

The most detrimental thing to GNR was Axl.

I never said Axl did not have problems on his own.

Axl's issues were not addictions; Just overall lazyness and being a control freak.

It's just that the management thought they could deal easier with crazy Axl than with High-on-drugs Slash or hungover Duff.

They have been proven wrong since Axl has not released anything close to the succesful AFD/UYI and fired all managers he has been working with.

On the other hand Duff & Slash enjoyed success with Velvet Revolver and with lesser extend with their own solo work.

I never said otherwise.

[Intercourse]

Indeed ... Axl is the devil.

Kill him with fire ... oh hell, you can't kill the devil with fire, I think ...

KILL HIM WITH WATER!!!

I never said the guy was the devil, just a control freak who saw a chance to have it all, grabbed at it and then found out that he couldn't cope with what he got.

[Laparka]

Indeed ... Axl is the devil.

Kill him with fire ... oh hell, you can't kill the devil with fire, I think ...

KILL HIM WITH WATER!!!

I never said the guy was the devil, just a control freak who saw a chance to have it all, grabbed at it and then found out that he couldn't cope with what he got.

Juts looks like the guy who constantly criticizes his managers, then finally becomes manager himself, sets rules so that he never gets fired and does not do jack shit.

[Apollo]

Mods - can you give Intercourse his own section on the forum?

He is probably the most informed, intelligent and non-biased level-headed poster on the forum. He should be the face of the forum.

[tomfriend]

One thing I've never figured out is the endgame in this no-show rumour.

Say Axl doesn't show up for a show. Probably causes a riot.

Next night, Axl doesn't show up again. Promoters would cancel the tour.

Then what?

[Intercourse]

One thing I've never figured out is the endgame in this no-show rumour.

Say Axl doesn't show up for a show. Probably causes a riot.

Next night, Axl doesn't show up again. Promoters would cancel the tour.

Then what?

That was the problem with Goldstein's threat, the guys knew Axl was mad enough to walk, get the tour cancelled, thus creating a trail of lawsuits with promoters & venue owners that they would have to pay out on as co-owners of GNR Inc. even though they would be completely innocent.

Axl had time and again proven to be an extremely expensive business partner with his considerable entourage, legal woes, extravagant parties, massive video productions and show overrun fines. It was great fun to watch as a fan but must have been a nightmare for the band as they watched their profits disappear into Axl's personal journey.

Axl proved their worries about cancelled tours to be well founded when he did just that - bailing on his first tour with the new band.

The fact is that GNR was such a money spinner that someone would still take the gamble on funding them to get out on the road because the potential payback would be so huge. Axl knew that too at the time so did as he pleased, he was indulged at every level. It was this situation that allowed the poison idea of absolute power to fester in Axl's mind leading to where we are today.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Intercourse

[Apollo]

One thing I've never figured out is the endgame in this no-show rumour.

Say Axl doesn't show up for a show. Probably causes a riot.

Next night, Axl doesn't show up again. Promoters would cancel the tour.

Then what?

That was the problem with Goldstein's threat, the guys knew Axl was mad enough to walk, get the tour cancelled, thus creating a trail of lawsuits with promoters & venue owners that they would have to pay out on as co-owners of GNR Inc. even though they would be completely innocent.

Axl had time and again proven to be an extremely expensive business partner with his considerable entourage, legal woes, extravagant parties, massive video productions and show overrun fines. It was great fun to watch as a fan but must have been a nightmare for the band as they watched their profits disappear into Axl's personal journey.

Axl proved their worries about cancelled tours to be well founded when he did just that - bailing on his first tour with the new band.

The fact is that GNR was such a money spinner that someone would still take the gamble on funding them to get out on the road because the potential payback would be so huge. Axl knew that too at the time so did as he pleased, he was indulged at every level. It was this situation that allowed the poison idea of absolute power to fester in Axl's mind leading to where we are today.

You should change your name to Mr. Logic.

Or maybe change it to Thread Killer. Because once you post you blow away all the silly weird arguments that a certain group on here always bring up. Instead of just hyperbole and obsessive fanboy behavior, you respond with logic, common sense and facts. Things that can't be disputed.

Thank you.

Whenever I feel like leaving the forum posters like you come along and restore my sense of faith and love for GnR and most of the band's fans.

[Ragnar]

Who the hell knows.

[Intercourse]

One thing I've never figured out is the endgame in this no-show rumour.

Say Axl doesn't show up for a show. Probably causes a riot.

Next night, Axl doesn't show up again. Promoters would cancel the tour.

Then what?

That was the problem with Goldstein's threat, the guys knew Axl was mad enough to walk, get the tour cancelled, thus creating a trail of lawsuits with promoters & venue owners that they would have to pay out on as co-owners of GNR Inc. even though they would be completely innocent.

Axl had time and again proven to be an extremely expensive business partner with his considerable entourage, legal woes, extravagant parties, massive video productions and show overrun fines. It was great fun to watch as a fan but must have been a nightmare for the band as they watched their profits disappear into Axl's personal journey.

Axl proved their worries about cancelled tours to be well founded when he did just that - bailing on his first tour with the new band.

The fact is that GNR was such a money spinner that someone would still take the gamble on funding them to get out on the road because the potential payback would be so huge. Axl knew that too at the time so did as he pleased, he was indulged at every level. It was this situation that allowed the poison idea of absolute power to fester in Axl's mind leading to where we are today.

You should change your name to Mr. Logic.

Or maybe change it to Thread Killer. Because once you post you blow away all the silly weird arguments that a certain group on here always bring up. Instead of just hyperbole and obsessive fanboy behavior, you respond with logic, common sense and facts. Things that can't be disputed.

Thank you.

Whenever I feel like leaving the forum posters like you come along and restore my sense of faith and love for GnR and most of the band's fans.

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliments. But really..I'm not interested in sides here.

This place should not turn into the pro or anti anybody forum as its the variety of opinions and inputs that make the experience here a better one. This was lost at HTGTH and look at it now..

I just find it incredible that such a great band that I still love so dearly was led to such a sorry state by its original members over what seems to have been very solvable issues. Its also really mad that they threw it all away and yet a quarter of a century later people remain as intrigued with the original band as ever and these fifty something men are being asked about their twenty something year old lives almost every day.

I think that's because GNR really were the very last band cast in the old mould like Zeppelin or the Stones.

Today, on the forums I'm interested in how some fans have completely bought into the rhetoric coming from both sides. Why would you believe anything a rock musician would tell you?

The GNR story is a great story of how:

- ultimate power corrupts

- the road to hell is paved with good intentions

- to be careful what you wish for etc

all the clichés apply...

I come to these forums because I remain completely intrigued with what happened behind the scenes in GNR from the UYI tours on to the present day and all I want is to know as much as possible about what really happened. Amazingly after a quarter of a century we still don't.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Intercourse

[Rovim]

One thing I've never figured out is the endgame in this no-show rumour.

Say Axl doesn't show up for a show. Probably causes a riot.

Next night, Axl doesn't show up again. Promoters would cancel the tour.

Then what?

That was the problem with Goldstein's threat, the guys knew Axl was mad enough to walk, get the tour cancelled, thus creating a trail of lawsuits with promoters & venue owners that they would have to pay out on as co-owners of GNR Inc. even though they would be completely innocent.

Axl had time and again proven to be an extremely expensive business partner with his considerable entourage, legal woes, extravagant parties, massive video productions and show overrun fines. It was great fun to watch as a fan but must have been a nightmare for the band as they watched their profits disappear into Axl's personal journey.

Axl proved their worries about cancelled tours to be well founded when he did just that - bailing on his first tour with the new band.

The fact is that GNR was such a money spinner that someone would still take the gamble on funding them to get out on the road because the potential payback would be so huge. Axl knew that too at the time so did as he pleased, he was indulged at every level. It was this situation that allowed the poison idea of absolute power to fester in Axl's mind leading to where we are today.

You should change your name to Mr. Logic.

Or maybe change it to Thread Killer. Because once you post you blow away all the silly weird arguments that a certain group on here always bring up. Instead of just hyperbole and obsessive fanboy behavior, you respond with logic, common sense and facts. Things that can't be disputed.

Thank you.

Whenever I feel like leaving the forum posters like you come along and restore my sense of faith and love for GnR and most of the band's fans.

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliments. But really..I'm not interested in sides here.

This place should not turn into the pro or anti anybody forum as its the variety of opinions and inouts that make the experience a better one. This was lost at HTGTH and look at it now..

I just find it incredible that such a great band that I still love so dearly was led to such a sorry state by its original members over what seems to have been very solvable issues.

I find it even more amazing that some fans have completely bought into the rhetoric on either side.

The GNR story is a great story of how:

- ultimate power corrupts

- the road to hell is paved with good intentions

- to be careful what you wish for etc

all the clichés apply...

I come to these forums because I remain completely intrigued with what happened behind the scenes in GNR from the UYI tours on to the present day and all I want is to know as much about what really happened.

We won't know what really happened until we'll hear Axl's version of it. The full version, the iceberg. But some people here are not open enough to even listen to both sides. That goes for Axl and Slash. I even see new gimmicks like Axl is a liar and other nonsense.

Either you give him the benefit of the doubt, or you stay ignorant (not you specifically) cause you're not open enough to corrections cause as a fan you naturally have your own way of looking at it, but gotta remember we don't know much. We're just fans, and Axl rarely shares information about it, and even when he does, a lot of people here don't believe him. Tbh, I think more people buy what Slash says for the most part.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Rovim

[Apollo]

I still think that they all should have just taken a vacation from each other.

At the end of the Illusions tour - everybody go their own way for the next five years. Put GnR on the inactive list.

Guys could go unwind, do drugs, vacation, or play in their own side projects. All without the weight of GnR on their shoulders. Even the general rock public was getting pretty sick of GnR at that point. So just put the GnR brand on the side-lines for a couple years.

And then maybe even just keep that cycle going. Where GnR is almost like their side project. Spend six months writing and recording together. Release record. Tour for 18 months. Go their separate ways for the following three years and do their own thing.

*********

Interco - I know what you mean.

It's crazy that people on here not only take "sides" but they act like they are related or members of Axl or Slash's "team."

I'm a fan of GnR.

And all its members.

But mainly - and first and foremost - I'm a fan of the MUSIC that these guys created.

I don't care about the feuds and fighting and who hates who.

My current tie to the band is in the deep hopes that Axl will turn into an artist who likes to share music with his fans.

[ChineseIRS]

I really wish Axl would adopt Tom Petty or U2s attitude to releasing music. Where they wanna keep pushing themselves to keep coming up with new things and not ride the nostalgia train. Like Petty said in his latest Rolling Stone interview, the music will be around long after theyre gone, leave as much as you can...something to that effect.

[dalsh327]

I really wish Axl would adopt Tom Petty or U2s attitude to releasing music. Where they wanna keep pushing themselves to keep coming up with new things and not ride the nostalgia train. Like Petty said in his latest Rolling Stone interview, the music will be around long after theyre gone, leave as much as you can...something to that effect.

The band members keep Petty and Bono moving along, and they look at who is still performing so there's some motivation to keep doing it, but you have to be giving the audience a great show to make it worth their time and money. If your voice is degrading and the performers aren't up to par, they need to scale things down and not charge ridiculous amounts of money for a past his prime artist.

I still have to debate what nostalgia is, when the interest in the aging bands is more for people who never got to see them in their prime.

I think Petty and U2 just have more motivated bands who want to keep making new music. Do they feel like touring at their age? I think part of them dreads it - rehearsals, getting everything working right, the living out of suitcases and hotel food? Maybe when GNR was a supporting act and it was a novelty for them, but that novelty wore off when they headlined UYI. The Vegas residency - it was interesting Axl stuck around and wasn't on a plane home after every show, but he's probably spent a lot of time in Vegas over the years.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Has Goldstein ever spoken about it? Axl says it didn't happen but both Slash and Duff say it did, where is his input?

[Damn_Smooth]

Hmmmm... Even though we have documents to the contrary, people are still sticking with the Axl no-show fantasy. Okay, so they did it to prevent lawsuits now right? What exactly was it that prevented them from taking stage without him? It's not like having Axl there was necessary when everyone would have understood that he quit and they wouldn't have rioted over what would have been front page news all over the country. The band could even have had *gasp* guest vocalists until they found a permanent replacement. Would it really be so hard to find anybody that wanted to front the biggest band on earth at the time? I would think that there would be many people willing to do it.