Len Cnut Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) And I'm not dismissing the everyday. I'm saying that the grave issues surrounding such surveillance has very little to do with how an individual today would consciously experience a negative change in their lives, so that's a red herring way of going about the debate.So you're suggesting that surveillance per se is wrong, of any kind? Not trying to put words in your mouth, just following the line of logic, if it is impossible to guage when altering degrees of surveillance become a negative then surely that would mean to say that surveillance in and of itself is damaging, in any form, no? If you can't tell as a person when it's bad and when it's good then surely its always bad, if only for its potential to go bad without you knowing?I'm quite the American Constitutionalist on this one. I think any surveillance without a warrant from a court regarding the specific and restricted area to be surveilled and the specific reason for such surveillance should be illegal. Oh, a specific time frame for the surveillance to take place too.Doesn't that cover what we're discussing, i mean they are put their by local councils right, according to the law?No, that's not what I mean. Mass surveillance shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances in public spaces. There needs to be probable cause for the surveillance, not general paranoia.Probably cause regarding a specified crime, I should add.Is it general paranoia though if the thing in question has a massive effect on crime in the area in question? And how do you define mass surveillance? High Streets and their surrounding areas are generally the places where a lot of crime occurs. This position would make sense if these cameras were like, smothering residential areas but they're not. Edited December 2, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I define mass surveillance as any surveillance that is not aimed at specified individuals regarding specified criminal activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I define mass surveillance as any surveillance that is not aimed at specified individuals regarding specified criminal activity.So then people that have CCTV looking into their driveway and the street in front of it is out of order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I define mass surveillance as any surveillance that is not aimed at specified individuals regarding specified criminal activity.So then people that have CCTV looking into their driveway and the street in front of it is out of order?I'm talking about the government. What private citizens do on their own private property is their business, for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) But the street out the front of their house isn't their private property and CCTV tends to cover that too. Anyway, overall, I'm not sure where I stand with your position, I'd have to think about it a while, like i say i been playing devils advocate and I still don't think anyone has even approached really being able to explain their position in opposition to what I've been saying but at the same time I'm not really settled on a position cuz as you say, the acutely narrow perspective doesn't show the whole picture anymore than just erring on the side of Orwell by default. Edited December 2, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I guess I'd be OK with private citizens who want to record within a defined radius surrounding their property as long as we're basing it on the principle of a private citizen monitoring their private property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Sometimes i get the feeling that the American Constitution has engendered certain knee-jerk responses in your population that aren't always positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I agree. But I also think that people who easily disregard and dismiss a society's founding principles deserve exactly what's coming to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 2 and a half inch is like a stanley knife man, i got suspended from school for bringing one of those in and, funnily enough, i did have it on me cuz of work i was doing. Bait as fuck though, i agree. my state it is legal to carry any knife as long as youre not a felon that includes concealed.i always carry around a butterfly knife with me wherever i go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 2 and a half inch is like a stanley knife man, i got suspended from school for bringing one of those in and, funnily enough, i did have it on me cuz of work i was doing. Bait as fuck though, i agree.my state it is legal to carry any knife as long as youre not a felon that includes concealed.i always carry around a butterfly knife with me wherever i go.Over here when i was a lad the limit was a swiss army knife and thats it, anything over that and you're getting done. I think even thats changed although I'm not sure, not so fascinated by that shit as i was when i was a kid. The stanley knife got a lot of bad press in England, it's actually just a fuckin' carpet cutter but that made them all the more easier to have, people used to take em to football matches for the rumbles and that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I define mass surveillance as any surveillance that is not aimed at specified individuals regarding specified criminal activity.If it's not aimed at anybody then surely it's not really a huge concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I know this is a cliched answer.....but for me personally it is true. I don't engage in criminal activity so I wouldn't care if there were cameras on every street in the world. Anything that reduces crime is A-OK with me. I'm not giving up any freedoms or rights. I don't commit crimes so feel free to film me all you want.Being filmed or not being film won't change my behavior. Who is going to change their action if they know they are being watched? Those who were going to commit a crime, that's who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I define mass surveillance as any surveillance that is not aimed at specified individuals regarding specified criminal activity.If it's not aimed at anybody then surely it's not really a huge concern?Exactly the opposite, for when it's not aimed at anyone, it's aimed at everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zint Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Sucker punch? Lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl_morris Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Quality isn't good. Just looks like he punches him in the back of the head when he wasn't looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You call it Northumberland Street in Newcastle and having seen what goes on there I'm not surprised that Dies' can't tell the difference between public and private. What, WH Smiths, HMV and Marks opened and closed? You are not telling me that you went drinking in Northumberland Street haha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You call it Northumberland Street in Newcastle and having seen what goes on there I'm not surprised that Dies' can't tell the difference between public and private. What, WH Smiths, HMV and Marks opened and closed? You are not telling me that you went drinking in Northumberland Street haha?Surely you've been to Trillians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Been there? I got arrested outside there haha.That is the only boozer there and it is not even on the street; it is hidden away down a cut towards the library.. Northumberland Street is high street hell, Marks, Debenems, HMV, Boots. Nobody boozes there. People booze in the West End, i.e. the Big Market and around the Gate Area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Newcastle, at winter time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think KK has hijacked Len's account. FYI, I'm not the biggest fan of CCTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Been there? I got arrested outside there haha.That is the only boozer there and it is not even on the street; it is hidden away down a cut towards the library.. Northumberland Street is high street hell, Marks, Debenems, HMV, Boots. Nobody boozes there. People booze in the West End, i.e. the Big Market and around the Gate Area.What did you get nicked for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Drunk and disorderly. I had to pay the £80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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