seagullview Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 What do you think is holding up Axl the most in his quest for perfection? Writing the lyrics or anything to do with the sound? Or do you think it's shared equally between all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I'm not sure why it's said that he's such a perfectionist all the time. Clearly he isn't, take a listen to Chinese Democracy. Half the songs on there are absolutely horrible and the rest which are somewhat listenable could have been made a hundred times better if he did some things different. Or just take a look at his band. Would he have brought in people like Finck, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, DJ, Dizzy, Pitman, Frank, etc. if he was a perfectionist? Most of them are not only mediocre studio musicians, they're terrible live as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagullview Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I'm not sure why it's said that he's such a perfectionist all the time. Clearly he isn't, take a listen to Chinese Democracy. Half the songs on there are absolutely horrible and the rest which are somewhat listenable could have been made a hundred times better if he did some things different. Or just take a look at his band. Would he have brought in people like Finck, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, DJ, Dizzy, Pitman, Frank, etc. if he was a perfectionist? Most of them are not only mediocre studio musicians, they're terrible live as well.It's not like the songs on Chinese Democracy havent been worked on! I think it's pretty clear he's a perfectionist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure why it's said that he's such a perfectionist all the time. Clearly he isn't, take a listen to Chinese Democracy. Half the songs on there are absolutely horrible and the rest which are somewhat listenable could have been made a hundred times better if he did some things different. Or just take a look at his band. Would he have brought in people like Finck, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, DJ, Dizzy, Pitman, Frank, etc. if he was a perfectionist? Most of them are not only mediocre studio musicians, they're terrible live as well.Bucket is terrible live? lol. Silly. So silly. He's one of the best guitar players in the world and his talent and flawless control over the guitar as an instrument are undeniable. He's amazing. Shame on you. Edited January 1, 2015 by Rovim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Also: Buckethead was the right choice for new Guns, for what Axl was trying to do artistically. Chinese proves it imo. Edited January 1, 2015 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dando Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Also: Buckethead was the right choice for new Guns, for what Axl was trying to do artistically. Chinese proves it imo.Agreed , the only point I'd like to say with bucket was he needed to slow down, plays way too fast, thought that back in 2002 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think the revolving door of musicians has confused him about what to replace, what to leave in, what do layer with whom, what to scrap, what songs to completely rework, what new concepts with these guys strengths and suggestions to pursue, what the record label might've liked, endless obsession with touring the same album and hits getting in the way... it's a damn quagmire. Or maybe he hasn't even contemplated any of it since releasing CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Also: Buckethead was the right choice for new Guns, for what Axl was trying to do artistically. Chinese proves it imo.Agreed , the only point I'd like to say with bucket was he needed to slow down, plays way too fast, thought that back in 2002That's just how Bucket rolls. Can't slow that roll. If you do, then it won't be Bucket. Besides, he can slow it the fuck down when he wants to. Does that a lot actually in his solo work and on Chinese.His Street Of Dreams outro, There Was A Time outro, and Sorry solo, just to name a few, all show he can do the slow thing as well, but if you're a Bucket fan you already know that from listening to his solo albums. Edited January 1, 2015 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Would he have brought in people like Finck, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, DJ, Dizzy, Pitman, Frank, etc. if he was a perfectionist? Most of them are not only mediocre studio musicians, they're terrible live as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 quest for perfection?do you really think axl is consumed by this "quest" and spends countless hours trying to make the perfect songs?do you really think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSoftie Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think his voice holds up recording/new album. Can't imagine it's a coincidence that Axl went into the studio straight after Vegas 14, when his vocals were the strongest they've been since 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think his voice holds up recording/new album. Can't imagine it's a coincidence that Axl went into the studio straight after Vegas 14, when his vocals were the strongest they've been since 2010.Can't imagine if he really wants to lay new vocals for 10-15 year old unreleased songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmapelian Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 What do you think is holding up Axl the most in his quest for perfection? Writing the lyrics or anything to do with the sound? Or do you think it's shared equally between all of them?I think it's a myth and cop-out that axl's a perfectionist and it's really a crutch for a guy that's got a confidence complex. If Axl was such a perfectionist, than why have his live performances been so inconisisttent and why is he so out of shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I don't believe the "perfection" excuse for a second, it's gotta be pure laziness with no ambition that's causing no new music to come out of the GnR camp. After the reception ChiDem received and how average concert-goers seem to only want to hear 80's-90's material in shows, it becomes pointless to write new music that the majority won't care about. All the talk about heading into the studio just seems like PR talk to keep people talking about Guns.An Axl solo album would be ideal at this stage rather than another album released under Guns N' Roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 i think it is easy to imagine that axl is having a beer right now and he doesnt give a flying fuck about perfection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ManetsBR Posted January 2, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure why it's said that he's such a perfectionist all the time. Clearly he isn't, take a listen to Chinese Democracy. Half the songs on there are absolutely horrible and the rest which are somewhat listenable could have been made a hundred times better if he did some things different. Or just take a look at his band. Would he have brought in people like Finck, Buckethead, Bumblefoot, DJ, Dizzy, Pitman, Frank, etc. if he was a perfectionist? Most of them are not only mediocre studio musicians, they're terrible live as well.What a horrible post. Being a perfectionist has absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote. It has nothing, nothing to do with opinions and taste. It's irrelevant whether Chinese Democracy is your favorite album or if you can't stand to listen to a single second of it. Perfectionism is trying to reach a unattainable ideal of what your vision on something is. Sure, perhaps the earlier versions of the album would sound rawer and more clean, which would please some, but that was not Axl's vision for it. I'm not saying I agree with him or if I would have enjoyed it more, our opinions don't matter here. To keep it crystal clear, let's take a look at the Wikipedia's definition of Perfectionism: a person's striving for flawlessness and setting excessively high performance standards, accompanied by overly critical self-evaluations and concerns regarding others' evaluations. [...] Perfectionism drives people to attempt to achieve an unattainable ideal. [...] When perfectionists do not reach their goals, they often fall into depression.Axl being perfectionist has nothing to do with you personally enjoying his songs or not. Get out of yout bubble, for Christ's sake. There are some Stanley Kubrick's films who I personally dislike, but I wouldn't dare to disagree with his status of perfectionist. It has to do with how hard you try, not how many people you please. Take a look at George Lucas, for example. Him and Axl have a lot in common. Once they were surrounded by yes-mesn and allowed unlimited resources, they snapped. Lucas changes irrelevant stuff on the old Star Wars movies on every single re-release. It will never reach his "ideal vision". And most times, his changes were totally dumb and didn't add anything to the movies.With Axl, he has not only re-recorded his music over and over; but always when someone new gets onboard, he gets the person to add something to the material. He personally asked Brain to re-record Josh Freese's drumming note for note because he liked Brain's touch. Take a look at the 2006 leaked version of Chinese Democracy, the song. That was not a "demo", that was, on the parameters of any reasonable person, a totally finished, ready for release song. But no, once Frank and Ron joined the band, both of them worked on the song. A somewhat finished song. And, in my opinion, they ruined it. But that doesn't make it any less of an evidence of Axl's perfectionism. That's the deal, really. There's no such thing is artistic perfection, art after all is purely subjective. I've told this story a couple of times here before, but the one time I spoke to Beta, she said something I always remember. Read again the middle part of the Wikipedia definition: "accompanied by overly critical self-evaluations and concerns regarding others' evaluations". Well, what Beta said was: Axl's music is his baby. He gets sad with leaks because what we get to hear - and judge - is not the final version. Apparently, he goes on message forums and reads what every one of us write about his music.So yeah, Axl is a perfectionist, whether you agree or not, wheter you like his music or not. Edited January 2, 2015 by ManetsBR 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSoftie Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think his voice holds up recording/new album. Can't imagine it's a coincidence that Axl went into the studio straight after Vegas 14, when his vocals were the strongest they've been since 2010.Can't imagine if he really wants to lay new vocals for 10-15 year old unreleased songsThat part I'm not sure about. I can see Axl getting rid of parts he doesn't like and re recording, or maybe he's doing harmonies. Or maybe there's music, new or old, that doesn't have vocals yet. Who knows... I guess we'll wait and hopefully see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think the fact that he has become shit in his old age is hindering him in his quest for perfection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 If you just take a look at the Wikipedia quote you had you have it there. Flawlessness is the opposite thing from everything I mentioned. No matter what you may think about Chinese Democracy or any of the musicians he hired, flawlessness isn't a word that would apply to any of them. Neither does it apply to him. If he was striving for flawlessness maybe he'd actually prepare before a tour and not use the first three months to warm up his voice. Just one example of thousands that could be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Are we talking about perfectionism or just doing what you want to do when you want to do it? I think there's a distinct difference, also I guess people can be perfectionist about some things and not others, it's possibly more OCD than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagullview Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 If you just take a look at the Wikipedia quote you had you have it there. Flawlessness is the opposite thing from everything I mentioned. No matter what you may think about Chinese Democracy or any of the musicians he hired, flawlessness isn't a word that would apply to any of them. Neither does it apply to him. If he was striving for flawlessness maybe he'd actually prepare before a tour and not use the first three months to warm up his voice. Just one example of thousands that could be made.Are we talking about perfectionism or just doing what you want to do when you want to do it? I think there's a distinct difference, also I guess people can be perfectionist about some things and not others, it's possibly more OCD than anything else.It's not about what you LIKE, but what the artist THINKS is good that determines if it's perfectionism. I'll agree that you can maybe question the live performances post 2011 as perfectionism, but as Alfierose says it could apply to different things. There is no doubt however, that traditionally, Axl has been a perfectionist when recording music. No doubt at all. For example did he record the vocals on AFD line for line. A lot of songs have been changed over the years. Lyrics added etc. The long wait for the next album implies that it's still the case. But yeah, hard to say what's going on after 2011.Back on topic though, he does change the lyrics quite often, doesn't he? And album titles? And I guess some of the songs doesn't even have lyrics added to them yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I don't think it's about being a perfectionist as much as him being very insecure. At least not with everything about the band after Slash and Duff left. Okay that he may have been a bit overly obsessed about getting the perfect sound when recording November Rain for example, but I imagine his insecurities are more responsible for the CD things. Also, his live performances were far from flawless before 2011. 2006 seems to be the only tour he has properly prepared himself for in his career. He could get away with it in the 80's and 90's on pure vocal power, stage presence, charisma and passion in the early days, but even then it was a hit and miss from night to night whether he gave a good performance. Had he been a perfectionist he'd have prepared much better and not left so much to chance.Edit: I don't have the energy for this. He's not as much of a perfectionist people want to have him be, he just isn't. That's just the way it is. I'm out. Edited January 2, 2015 by Satanisk_Slakt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Manets just pulled a Rovim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManetsBR Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 What is it to pull a Rovim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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