Dee Snider takes aim at GnR...

[Apollo]

There is something between Dee and Axl. I think someone mentioned it a while ago, here or on another forum.

Dee, or one of his cohorts will probably read this thread, so it would be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth what the beef is.

Dee played with Slash

Dee thought Axl should have showed up at RnR hall of games for the fans of GnR.

And Dee's last statement about hired guns.

Weird thing is that once you step away from the GnR forums, the large majority of people agree with Dee on both accounts.

[Mysteron]

There is something between Dee and Axl. I think someone mentioned it a while ago, here or on another forum.

Dee, or one of his cohorts will probably read this thread, so it would be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth what the beef is.

Dee played with Slash

Dee thought Axl should have showed up at RnR hall of games for the fans of GnR.

And Dee's last statement about hired guns.

Weird thing is that once you step away from the GnR forums, the large majority of people agree with Dee on both accounts.

Ahh, it'd be fun to hear from Dee or friends.

Maybe that could be a forum interview or project? It's informative for historical purposes.

[GUNNER PT]

Funny to see Apollo chasing me all over the forum ... like if I was someone really important to him

First he said that i said things that i never said about Slash in the other thread (Slash hated GN'R success)

Now he's trying to make me look like someone who's attacking Dee Snider, just because I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me. I said that I don't even know what he said ... I just don't care ... how can Apollo accuse me to defend Axl when I don't even talked about it? That's just insane ... What's really happening it's exactly the opposite, he's giving credit to this guy just because looks like he said something against Axl. Funny to see people changing tables ...

And when it's getting too obvious what he's doing, he goes totally out of control, totally out of arguments and he just start to attack me, talking about Justin Bieber (wtf?) and calling me a female (like he did on his status) ...

Man, I already kindly asked you to stop ... what's next?

Edited March 25, 2015 by GUNNER PT

[Apollo]

Funny to see Apollo chasing me all over the forum ... like if I was someone really important to him

First he said that i said things that i never said about Slash in the other thread (Slash hated GN'R success)

Now he's trying to make me look like someone who's attacking Dee Snider, just because I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me. I said that I don't even know what he said ... I just don't care ... how can Apollo accuse me to defend Axl when I don't even talked about it? That's just insane ... What's really happening it's exactly the opposite, he's giving credit to this guy just because looks like he said something against Axl. Funny to see people changing tables ...

And when it's getting too obvious what he's doing, he goes totally out of control, totally out of arguments and he just start to attack me, talking about Justin Bieber (wtf?) and calling me a female (like he did on his status) ...

Man, I already kindly asked you to stop ... what's next?

Lol. You just made an entire post about me. Maybe you should stop forum stalking me and just stick to talking about the topic or about what people are posting.

Try and stay on topic, bub. And don't post stupid memes/pictures if you don't want people to respond. And put me on ignore if you don't want to see what I've posted - problem solved!!!!

Edit - responded to every point you made, realized you wouldn't get it, deleted, moving on.

Gunner, you are very important to me. And I'm a table changer (whatever the hell that means). And the fact we both post in the active topics is just a weird coincidence, I'm really just chasing you around. Downzy, I should get a 1 of my 2 warning points removed for not responding to this like most people would!

Back on topic now.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Apollo

[Apollo]

Izzy sobered up, 15th December 1989.

Duff has been sober since his pancreas exploded, 10th May 1994.

Axl also deserves credit for the ending of apartheid and the end of the cold war, based on the premise that he was simply around and active when all of that took place.

Word!!!!

Is it funny or sad that some people on these GnR forums actually believe what you just posted?

They don't believe it. They simply pretend that they do because they want to protect Axl Rose no matter what. No sane person would agree with those stupid statements.

You probably are correct.

I have always disagreed with the notion that a band is defined by any particular lineup. I have no problems accepting that a band can have changing lineups, less popular lineups, less productive lineups, etc. It is the same band, albeit with different lineups. This concept should be within the grasp of most people here, it is not rocket science or anything. If we were to arbitraily - or according to our own preferences - decide that only some lineups are worthy to be referred to by the band name, then that gives us a plethora of problems, not the least what band name to assign to the remaining lineups/epochs. It is unnecessarily complicated and just comes from a childish position where people feel a big need to distance some lineups they don't appreciate from those they cherish perhaps a tad too much

Most people go the opposite way of you. Most aren't fans of a band name or brand, but are fans of the musicians themselves. The actual artists making the music they love. What is so challenging about that concept to you? Unless you are getting royalties or some other payments from the entity Guns N' Roses, why would any fan feel more loyalty to the name or brand than the people whose music they connected with in the 1st place? 1 is being a fan and 1 is being a sheep.

For sure, if a band is around long enough, there is likely to be a lineup change or 2, and some pass the smell test and others don't. AC/DC pulled it off. I personally am a huge DLR-VH fan only, but can recognize the success and legitimacy of the Sammy era. With Guns, it was always gonna be No Slash=No GNR to most fans.

And the whole thing about lineup changes not mattering in the context of GNR is utter bullshit anyways. If Axl walked out tomorrow and signed the name over to Ashba to find a new singer, neither you nor anyone on the planet would still consider it GNR.

The actual musicians are the ONLY thing that matter and Nu-Guns never came close to passing the smell test...

Well said.

Let's be honest, what percentage of people still follow this band because of Axl Rose compared to because of Dizzy, Fortus, DJ, etc. Would 95% to 5% be in the right ball park? If Axl signed over the name to DJ tomorrow and then quit the band, would GnR still draw 8,000-15,000 people a night in the US? Or headline festivals overseas? I would be that 95% of paying customers are there to see Axl sing GnR hits and they couldn't care less who the third guitar player or SECOND keyboard player is.

I'm not a fan of Twisted Sister either but this does not invalidate Dee Snider's opinion.

Exactly!!!!!!

Twisted Sister is well respected within the rock world and more importantly by their peers.

Is this true? Not trying to call you out, Groghs. I honestly have no idea.

Yeah, they were. Their popularity didn't last long but they were huge for a brief time and as Groghan said, Dee was the major figure in the Tipper Gore/PMRC thing. He basically was rock music's representative against the government trying to censor lyrics and such.

In the hard rock world at the time, TS and Quiet Riot crossed over to the mainstream with their albums Stay Hungry and Metal Health respectively and TS's videos for We're Not Gonna Take It and I Wanna Rock are iconic to the time and are considered game changers to an extent of the music video back then and how it was evolving.

TS and QR are 2 are the major bands that brought hard rock to the forefront in the 80's, for better or worse, depending on your tastes. Both bands definitely laid the groundwork for later bands, including GNR, to be accepted into the mainstream.

Such a good post. Some Dee haters really need to read this one.

[Nosaj Thing]

I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me.

Sorry to join the discussion, but it's not a matter of opinion whether someone is a 'nobody' or not. Someone can't be a 'nobody' to you just because you don't know who he is.

[Apollo]

I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me.

Sorry to join the discussion, but it's not a matter of opinion whether someone is a 'nobody' or not. Someone can't be a 'nobody' to you just because you don't know who he is.

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

[GUNNER PT]

And I'm a table changer (whatever the hell that means).

Obviously, I meant "turning tables" ... man, I thought you were smarter ... what a disappointment ...

[Forsaken]

Funny to see Apollo chasing me all over the forum ... like if I was someone really important to him

Cut it right there man. Tired of seeing this bickering back and forth between you guys. Anymore of this shit and points follow, period.

[Nosaj Thing]

I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me.

Sorry to join the discussion, but it's not a matter of opinion whether someone is a 'nobody' or not. Someone can't be a 'nobody' to you just because you don't know who he is.

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

It's unfortunate that this is probably the 6th time I have read that you're not a fan of Twisted Sister music, yet people ignore this in order to call you a 'defender'.

And yes, I am in the same boat, never liked their music but I can't deny their popularity and importance in rock history.

[GUNNER PT]

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

In a matter of fact, everything past it's history ... and everything will have some place in history ... that just doesn't make it relevant ...

[Apollo]

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

In a matter of fact, everything past it's history ... and everything will have some place in history ... that just doesn't make it relevant ...

Just so there is no confusion.........are you saying that Twisted Sister's "place in history" is such that they weren't "relevant."

Edited March 26, 2015 by Apollo

[DR DOOM]

I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me.

Sorry to join the discussion, but it's not a matter of opinion whether someone is a 'nobody' or not. Someone can't be a 'nobody' to you just because you don't know who he is.

Do yourself a favor GUNNER

[Sixes]

I don't even know him and that's why he's nobody, to me.

Sorry to join the discussion, but it's not a matter of opinion whether someone is a 'nobody' or not. Someone can't be a 'nobody' to you just because you don't know who he is.

Do yourself a favor GUNNER

and now you're gonna have to explain who Flo & Eddie are even though they were they were incredibly popular in their day and had many hit singles, one of which, Happy Together, is an all time classic

[DR DOOM]

and now you're gonna have to explain who Flo & Eddie are even though they were they were incredibly popular in their day and had many hit singles, one of which, Happy Together, is an all time classic

I think they were two nobody singers from some band called The Turtles, and provided their bland, undistinguished vocals to a string of other no name artists like Frank Zappa, T-Rex, Alice Cooper, Blondie, Bruce Springsteen and dozens of other wannabes.

[Sixes]

and now you're gonna have to explain who Flo & Eddie are even though they were they were incredibly popular in their day and had many hit singles, one of which, Happy Together, is an all time classic

I think they were two nobody singers from some band called The Turtles, and provided their bland, undistinguished vocals to a string of other no name artists like Frank Zappa, T-Rex, Alice Cooper, Blondie, Bruce Springsteen and dozens of other wannabes.

More importantly, and really, most importantly, does Axl like them?

[GUNNER PT]

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

In a matter of fact, everything past it's history ... and everything will have some place in history ... that just doesn't make it relevant ...

Just so there is no confusion.........are you saying that Twisted Sister's "place in history" is such that they weren't "relevant."

Did I say that? Is my english that bad? I thought that I said that being history isn't enough to make something relevant ...

Is not that bad ... that guy singing reminds me a bit of Bruce Dickinson (that's a positive thing).

[Apollo]

No kidding!

I can't stand Twisted Sister's popular work and thought the entire clown costume make-up thing was terrible. And before they morphed into that and were a pure straight old fashion hard rock band, I only liked maybe 3-4 of their songs.

But to deny their place in rock history is just ludicrous.

In a matter of fact, everything past it's history ... and everything will have some place in history ... that just doesn't make it relevant ...

Just so there is no confusion.........are you saying that Twisted Sister's "place in history" is such that they weren't "relevant."

Did I say that? Is my english that bad? I thought that I said that being history isn't enough to make something relevant ...

Is not that bad ... that guy singing reminds me a bit of Bruce Dickinson (that's a positive thing).

No, your English was good enough!

Britney Fox had a couple albums out in the late 80s and a minor hit or two on MTV. They are part of history......but have no real relevance in the rock world. They just hitched a ride on a popular trend and then quickly disappeared in oblivion. So that band matches your statement - a part of history, but of no real relevance (other than having a couple catchy songs during a really specific genre's height of popularity).

The question I'm trying to ask you, is if you are saying that Twisted Sister isn't relevant in the history of rock music?

Do you remember the PMRC and Tipper Gore controversy? Dee Snider is who the entire rock community selected to represent them (as a group) in front of CONGRESS in a historically significant legal matter that potentially could have changed rock music (and really all music) forever. There is a reason that Dee was chosen to speak on behalf of all rock music. That's how respected he was by the people we consider "legends" - Ozzy, Dio, Steven Tyler, etc.

Musically, there is a 4-5 year period where Twisted Sister was huge. Their breakthrough album sold more than two million copies, they had a couple hit songs. And like Sixes said, they were stalwarts in the hard rock/70's rock/glam rock scene transitioning to the hair metal era. A band like Hanoi Rocks never really had a lot of chart success or album sales, but rockers from Axl Rose to Steven Perry to anybody else that you respect from the last 30 years of rock will tell you that Michael Monroe was a HUGE influence on hard rock music. Michael Monroe is who Vince Neil and Brett Michaels dream they could be. Bands like Sister and Hanoi Rocks and Quiet Riot - they were the middle men that helped create an entire new sound and image.

Just for reference, VH did a top 100 artists of hard rock list a few years ago. Zeppelin tops the list, GnR are ranked 9th of all time. Twisted Sister is ranked 73rd on the list. That's pretty impressive when you consider the band really only had a couple albums that did anything sales wise. And they really only had ONE hit record. So a band with a huge gimmick and only one hit album.........yet they are ranked as a top 70 hard rock band of all time. Ahead of bands like Bon Jovi

and Ratt, and beside bands like Skynrd, Megadeth, Joan Jett, Boston.

AND like I've said about a dozen times. I never liked them. Thought the look was stupid and didn't like their hit songs. I like a couple of their older tunes, when they had a much more metal sound. I thought Dee's movie was pretty funny (he wrote, starred in it and directed it). And I admire the guy for staying in the business after thirty years. He is still relevant enough that all of us are talking about him today. The guy is working in the media, writing, doing radio, tv and podcasts. Can't fault the dude for making a living.

BUT if I had to list my top 100 favorite rock musicians of all time - Dee Snider doesn't even make consideration or is in the picture for the 100th spot. The guy seems kind of obnoxious and probably a bit arrogant in real life. Not my cup of tea - musically or as a person. But to deny his place in rock history or his relevance in hard rock music......that's the only reason I'm debating this issue with you and a couple others. To just dismiss him as a nobody with no relevance - well, it just seems rude on your part. And it's wrong, because the man/band did cut out their place in hard rock history (relevance). Personal preference of him aside - they earned it.

And that's also how I feel about Slash. You've made a few comments linking me to be a Slash worshipper. You couldn't be farther from the truth. I've been All Axl since 1988. There are maybe 3 or 4 people in the world who would say that I'm a Slash fan - and they are all on this forum. I think Axl was the heart and soul of GnR. I think Slash could have been replaced. I hated VR. I've never liked Slash's image - this dude who is always drunk or high, smoking, hat over his head - just seemed stupid to me. And I haven't liked probably 90% of the music he has released post-GnR. BUT I do admire the way the guy constantly releases music for his fans (which Axl doesn't), that he does tons of interviews and is so fan friendly (which Axl doesn't). I admire his career even if I don't like the majority of his music.

What irritates me is when people start making weird comparisons between the two. Like saying Axl has more integrity than Slash because he doesn't release music every two years and he doesn't do interviews very often. Or they bash Slash for releasing music and doing interviews - like that is somehow a bad thing. Slash plays superbowl - bad. Slash plays a charity event - bad. Slash releases an album - bad. I don't understand how people have put themselves in the middle of the Axl-vs-Slash feud. It makes no sense to me. If Slash donated a million dollars to cancer research tomorrow, there would be people on here bashing him for it "He just did it for publicity. He should have done it privately AND he should have donated at least two million." I don't get people who constantly bash Axl or Slash like it's some sort of competition. And I don't get people that dislike Slash - just because Axl doesn't like him.

[SoulMonster]

What irritates me is when people start making weird comparisons between the two. Like saying Axl has more integrity than Slash because he doesn't release music every two years and he doesn't do interviews very often. Or they bash Slash for releasing music and doing interviews - like that is somehow a bad thing. Slash plays superbowl - bad. Slash plays a charity event - bad. Slash releases an album - bad. I don't understand how people have put themselves in the middle of the Axl-vs-Slash feud. It makes no sense to me. If Slash donated a million dollars to cancer research tomorrow, there would be people on here bashing him for it "He just did it for publicity. He should have done it privately AND he should have donated at least two million." I don't get people who constantly bash Axl or Slash like it's some sort of competition. And I don't get people that dislike Slash - just because Axl doesn't like him.

Good post, Apollo!

But the integrity thing. Integrity is about following your convictions. You could easily have more integrity while being unproductive - if that means you aren't losing yourself or changing in the process. Or you could be full of integrity being very productive, if that doesn't mean compromising your personality. Integrity simply has nothing to do with whether you do things that are popular, or living up to others' expectations, it has all to do with being true to oneself. So, both Axl and Slash could be said to have their artistic integrity intact, unless they at some point decided to make compromises for money, or other rewards.

Secondly, I don't think anywone is calling out Slash for being productive. What people have been saying -- and you constantly seem to not get this -- is that it is not the volume of production but the quality that is the problem, and that if Slash would, say, spend a bit more time on each album, it would result in better music that more people would like. To make it short: people would prefer one stellar album to two mediocre albums. You might disagree with this as much as you want, but don't continue to use this argument in your "war" on people you claim only bash Slash because Axl doesn't like him. Regardless of what you think, disliking Slashs's tendency to apparently uncritically release all the music he comes up with, has nothing to do with Axl or your ongoing polarization of "Axl nutters" and "Slash bashers".

[Apollo]

What irritates me is when people start making weird comparisons between the two. Like saying Axl has more integrity than Slash because he doesn't release music every two years and he doesn't do interviews very often. Or they bash Slash for releasing music and doing interviews - like that is somehow a bad thing. Slash plays superbowl - bad. Slash plays a charity event - bad. Slash releases an album - bad. I don't understand how people have put themselves in the middle of the Axl-vs-Slash feud. It makes no sense to me. If Slash donated a million dollars to cancer research tomorrow, there would be people on here bashing him for it "He just did it for publicity. He should have done it privately AND he should have donated at least two million." I don't get people who constantly bash Axl or Slash like it's some sort of competition. And I don't get people that dislike Slash - just because Axl doesn't like him.

Good post, Apollo!

Awwww, you so sweet!

[tinyrobot]

What irritates me is when people start making weird comparisons between the two. Like saying Axl has more integrity than Slash because he doesn't release music every two years and he doesn't do interviews very often. Or they bash Slash for releasing music and doing interviews - like that is somehow a bad thing. Slash plays superbowl - bad. Slash plays a charity event - bad. Slash releases an album - bad. I don't understand how people have put themselves in the middle of the Axl-vs-Slash feud. It makes no sense to me. If Slash donated a million dollars to cancer research tomorrow, there would be people on here bashing him for it "He just did it for publicity. He should have done it privately AND he should have donated at least two million." I don't get people who constantly bash Axl or Slash like it's some sort of competition. And I don't get people that dislike Slash - just because Axl doesn't like him.

Good post, Apollo!

But the integrity thing. Integrity is about following your convictions. You could easily have more integrity while being unproductive - if that means you aren't losing yourself or changing in the process. Or you could be full of integrity being very productive, if that doesn't mean compromising your personality. Integrity simply has nothing to do with whether you do things that are popular, or living up to others' expectations, it has all to do with being true to oneself. So, both Axl and Slash could be said to have their artistic integrity intact, unless they at some point decided to make compromises for money, or other rewards.

Secondly, I don't think anywone is calling out Slash for being productive. What people have been saying -- and you constantly seem to not get this -- is that it is not the volume of production but the quality that is the problem, and that if Slash would, say, spend a bit more time on each album, it would result in better music that more people would like. To make it short: people would prefer one stellar album to two mediocre albums. You might disagree with this as much as you want, but don't continue to use this argument in your "war" on people you claim only bash Slash because Axl doesn't like him. Regardless of what you think, disliking Slashs's tendency to apparently uncritically release all the music he comes up with, has nothing to do with Axl or your ongoing polarization of "Axl nutters" and "Slash bashers".

*Standing Ovation*

And yes, good post too, Apollo (I've ran out of likes to give you one). I wish he had made that post 30 replies before! LOL because it's pretty educational on who are the Twisted Sisters, and also this silly little war wouldn't have become so rough.

I wanted to add that I re-read the whole thread and seriously, there weren't a lot of people attacking Dee Snider just because he bashed the NuGNR. Actually, in first page of this thread you see a lot of people anticipating chaos way before anyone said anything bad about Snider. There is a variety of opinions, lots of people agreeing with him, some others dissing him for his career and others in the middle.

I really didn't see the so-called Axl nutters ripping Snider's skin apart. It was all a big confusion and tons of animosity.

Hopefully this topic ends here.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tinyrobot

[Apollo]

What irritates me is when people start making weird comparisons between the two. Like saying Axl has more integrity than Slash because he doesn't release music every two years and he doesn't do interviews very often. Or they bash Slash for releasing music and doing interviews - like that is somehow a bad thing. Slash plays superbowl - bad. Slash plays a charity event - bad. Slash releases an album - bad. I don't understand how people have put themselves in the middle of the Axl-vs-Slash feud. It makes no sense to me. If Slash donated a million dollars to cancer research tomorrow, there would be people on here bashing him for it "He just did it for publicity. He should have done it privately AND he should have donated at least two million." I don't get people who constantly bash Axl or Slash like it's some sort of competition. And I don't get people that dislike Slash - just because Axl doesn't like him.

Good post, Apollo!

But the integrity thing. Integrity is about following your convictions. You could easily have more integrity while being unproductive - if that means you aren't losing yourself or changing in the process. Or you could be full of integrity being very productive, if that doesn't mean compromising your personality. Integrity simply has nothing to do with whether you do things that are popular, or living up to others' expectations, it has all to do with being true to oneself. So, both Axl and Slash could be said to have their artistic integrity intact, unless they at some point decided to make compromises for money, or other rewards.

Secondly, I don't think anywone is calling out Slash for being productive. What people have been saying -- and you constantly seem to not get this -- is that it is not the volume of production but the quality that is the problem, and that if Slash would, say, spend a bit more time on each album, it would result in better music that more people would like. To make it short: people would prefer one stellar album to two mediocre albums. You might disagree with this as much as you want, but don't continue to use this argument in your "war" on people you claim only bash Slash because Axl doesn't like him. Regardless of what you think, disliking Slashs's tendency to apparently uncritically release all the music he comes up with, has nothing to do with Axl or your ongoing polarization of "Axl nutters" and "Slash bashers".

*Standing Ovation*

And yes, good post too, Apollo (I've ran out of likes to give you one). I wish he had made that post 30 replies before! LOL because it's pretty educational on who are the Twisted Sisters, and also this silly little war wouldn't have become so rough.

I wanted to add that I re-read the whole thread and seriously, there weren't a lot of people attacking Dee Snider just because he bashed the NuGNR. Actually, in first page of this thread you see a lot of people anticipating chaos way before anyone said anything bad about Snider. There is a variety of opinions, lots of people agreeing with him, some others dissing him for his career and others in the middle.

I really didn't see the so-called Axl nutters ripping Snider's skin apart. It was all a big confusion and tons of animosity.

Hopefully this topic ends here.

[tinyrobot]

LOL

[Tom2112]

worth a listen if you're anti-snider. Clears some things up. Put like this, it's easy to see his point.

[Nosaj Thing]

worth a listen if you're anti-snider. Clears some things up. Put like this, it's easy to see his point.

Thanks for sharing. I will listen to this later.